Weed Debate in Wisconsin

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It is astonishing. One of my best friends is quite the avid user and has issues dating because of his consistent use of a dab pen. This guy who runs his own contracting business, has flipped 2 houses himself, is my business partner for making our whiskey, is a landlord and graduated from MU. But just because of the stigma of weed girls won't give him a second date. Now it's probably also because he's hitting the pen at the table while on said date but that's a different issue.

That sounds like a little bit too much weed, if the cat is hitting the pen at the dinner table on a first date.

[GooooMarquette]

And I don't understand the Tavern League's point of view here.  They were also against smoking bans, but that turned out to be a big nothingburger too.

My guess: An irrational fear that people will be laying around too stoned to head to the corner bar.

[JWags85]

My guess: An irrational fear that people will be laying around too stoned to head to the corner bar.

I don’t even think that, it’s just being viewed as an alternative to drinking, and they want none of that. If they viewed legalized gambling as a deterrent or strong alternative to heading to the bar, I would imagine they would be staunchly anti-legalized gambling in Wisconsin too

[Galway Eagle]

That sounds like a little bit too much weed, if the cat is hitting the pen at the dinner table on a first date.

But he's offering to share!

[WarriorFan]

Legalize it.
Tax the heck out of it.
Most importantly - regulate it for strength and content.

If my 16 year old is going to try it, I don't want him buying something laced with something truly addictive.

As for me... no thanks.  Workplace safety is too important and even if it is legalized, employers still need to be able to test to maintain a safe workplace. 

Anecdotally - and related to the dating comments - I've never met any "go-getters" or high potential employees who were also smokers.  The smokers I know are all very low motivation people.  Is that the pot, or were they like that anyway?  In most cases, they've been smoking since they were teenagers, so we'll never know.

[rocket surgeon]

I invite you to share the studies. This topic should be an actual debate on it.

Do these studies show that weed leads to "trying" or sustained consistent use of other drugs? Do they compare against alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, prescription drugs (xanex, nirovam, painkillers, adderall), or even something as simple as sugar?

I only ask because if they're looking at who currently uses an illegal drug then that user has already shown to engage in illicit behavior and would be more likely to engage in other illicit behaviors. If they look at states where it is legal and compare against other legal substances they'd get a more accurate number of what it truly a gateway drug.

  sorry eagle, didn't mean to ignore your post.  taking advantage of my last day down here in Az(until 3/18) golfing and "honey do list".  but i did see a recent study showing pot to be a gateway drug.  i'm sure we can find studies to tell us what we want to hear.  i really take no joy in this validation.  i agree this could be a good thread to discuss.  i haven't read beyond your comment so after i post this, i am looking forward to doing some catch up reading.

one thing that came to mind while writing this is that we now have more real data to draw upon as many states have legalized pot to some degree or another. 

[Galway Eagle]

  sorry eagle, didn't mean to ignore your post.  taking advantage of my last day down here in Az(until 3/18) golfing and "honey do list".  but i did see a recent study showing pot to be a gateway drug.  i'm sure we can find studies to tell us what we want to hear.  i really take no joy in this validation.  i agree this could be a good thread to discuss.  i haven't read beyond your comment so after i post this, i am looking forward to doing some catch up reading.

one thing that came to mind while writing this is that we now have more real data to draw upon as many states have legalized pot to some degree or another.

Hope you're enjoying yourself! I Played McCormick ranch last weekend.

[JWags85]

Anecdotally - and related to the dating comments - I've never met any "go-getters" or high potential employees who were also smokers.  The smokers I know are all very low motivation people.  Is that the pot, or were they like that anyway?  In most cases, they've been smoking since they were teenagers, so we'll never know.

Im curious what the age demos you’re speaking of.  In my experience, many of the older successful “users” you wouldn’t even know, cause its not like they make it an element of their personality.  I know a Harvard Law educated finance professional who is an active user, as well as his boss who is an actual legitimate billionaire, and they are both invested in the sector personally as well.  A late 30s entrepreneur I know, with 4 young kids, who has one of the most absurd work ethics ive ever seen, also is avid user of edible marijuana products.  His wife, who hasn’t drank since college, runs a graphic design business working with huge mall operators in addition to parenting said kids without a nanny or daycare, swears by gummies for sleep and helping to unwind due to various stressors.

Additionally, with edibles, CBD with THC products, etc... that are used for sleep aids, relaxation, etc... you have far more users than just someone smoking a joint.  And not for nothing, there are many people that you can’t necessarily speak to their drinking habits, outside of maybe that they are totally sober, so it stands to reason that there are marijuana users that you may not know of it.   

[rocket surgeon]

here is one point of view from NYT 2016

"Marijuana use is positively correlated with alcohol use and cigarette use, as well as illegal drugs like cocaine and methamphetamine. This does not mean that everyone who uses marijuana will transition to using heroin or other drugs, but it does mean that people who use marijuana also consume more, not less, legal and illegal drugs than do people who do not use marijuana.

People who are addicted to marijuana are three times more likely to be addicted to heroin."

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

hey, i'm open to a conversation on this topic as long as we can do this without beating the sh!t out of each other-

  tower made mention of picking up the pieces of a couple of drunk drivers recently, but not tokers.  how do you know they weren't smokin as well? 

it would be helpful if we had a test similar to BAC on the spot

the reason i'm concerned about legalization is that it just adds another mind numbing "substance" to our growing list of drugs.  i will admit that some people can handle drugs & alcohol better than others. 

 i am in full agreement there are medicinal benefits to MJ.  someone here earlier mentioned that opioids were legal? not without a valid prescription.  docs are being held to a higher standard when prescribing anything above schedule III at least, but i am shocked by schedule IV although i am pretty confident we would get called out pretty quickly here as well.

    Substances in this schedule(IV) have a low potential for abuse relative to substances in Schedule III.

Examples of Schedule IV substances include: alprazolam (Xanax®), carisoprodol (Soma®), clonazepam (Klonopin®), clorazepate (Tranxene®), diazepam (Valium®), lorazepam (Ativan®), midazolam (Versed®), temazepam (Restoril®), and triazolam (Halcion®).


    everything is being watched very carefully and rightly so.  as long as it can be justified, we have nothing to worry about.  the big issue is, if a patient is in that much pain to justify high numbers of opioids including refills, then the root cause of said pain isn't being properly addressed.   

   if someone is smoking a lot of pot(self prescribed) are the root causes being addressed?



       

 

[reinko]

here is one point of view from NYT 2016

"Marijuana use is positively correlated with alcohol use and cigarette use, as well as illegal drugs like cocaine and methamphetamine. This does not mean that everyone who uses marijuana will transition to using heroin or other drugs, but it does mean that people who use marijuana also consume more, not less, legal and illegal drugs than do people who do not use marijuana.

People who are addicted to marijuana are three times more likely to be addicted to heroin."

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

hey, i'm open to a conversation on this topic as long as we can do this without beating the sh!t out of each other-

  tower made mention of picking up the pieces of a couple of drunk drivers recently, but not tokers.  how do you know they weren't smokin as well? 

it would be helpful if we had a test similar to BAC on the spot

the reason i'm concerned about legalization is that it just adds another mind numbing "substance" to our growing list of drugs.  i will admit that some people can handle drugs & alcohol better than others. 

 i am in full agreement there are medicinal benefits to MJ.  someone here earlier mentioned that opioids were legal? not without a valid prescription.  docs are being held to a higher standard when prescribing anything above schedule III at least, but i am shocked by schedule IV although i am pretty confident we would get called out pretty quickly here as well.

    Substances in this schedule(IV) have a low potential for abuse relative to substances in Schedule III.

Examples of Schedule IV substances include: alprazolam (Xanax®), carisoprodol (Soma®), clonazepam (Klonopin®), clorazepate (Tranxene®), diazepam (Valium®), lorazepam (Ativan®), midazolam (Versed®), temazepam (Restoril®), and triazolam (Halcion®).


    everything is being watched very carefully and rightly so.  as long as it can be justified, we have nothing to worry about.  the big issue is, if a patient is in that much pain to justify high numbers of opioids including refills, then the root cause of said pain isn't being properly addressed.   

   if someone is smoking a lot of pot(self prescribed) are the root causes being addressed?



       

So your one source is an opinion piece from the FAKE NEWS NY Times?

[rocket surgeon]

So your one source is an opinion piece from the FAKE NEWS NY Times?

 no, just one of them i came upon.  as i said in one of my posts, anyone here could find what they want to find to back their point of view and that's not what i came here for.   i am honestly open to hearing what many of you have already posted.  i came here for a civil discussion, but you are one of them who are incapable of that so either get help or fook off.

[🏀]

So your one source is an opinion piece from the FAKE NEWS NY Times?

From five years ago, despite massive amounts of new data readily available.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

WI should legalize it, but not as part of the budget.  Should be its own bill with proper legislature processes.

[Jockey]

WI should legalize it, but not as part of the budget.  Should be its own bill with proper legislature processes.

Agreed.

[JWags85]

ZFB and Jockey just agreed on something political?!? Did I consume copious amounts of the substance in question???

[ZiggysFryBoy]

ZFB and Jockey just agreed on something political?!? Did I consume copious amounts of the substance in question???

Jockitch has to be right once in a great while.   

[Hards Alumni]

That sounds like a little bit too much weed, if the cat is hitting the pen at the dinner table on a first date.

I agree.  I think using THC is fine... but people who make it such a large part of their personality... its going to turn a lot of people away.

[naginiF]

Anecdotally - and related to the dating comments - I've never met any "go-getters" or high potential employees who were also smokers.  The smokers I know are all very low motivation people.  Is that the pot, or were they like that anyway?  In most cases, they've been smoking since they were teenagers, so we'll never know.

My experience is quite the opposite and I think you'd be surprised by the number of successful professionals who smoke pot. When I first hit executive level at Sprint (20 odd yrs ago) I got assigned an Exec Coach and within 3 months she mentioned that a number of execs and officers she coaches use marijuana to offset the stress and that it may be a good method for me. And yeah, there were a lot of sr execs that got high.

Also, there are a decent number of pot heads that have kids at the same school we do - lawyers, business owners, executives, etc. all the ones I know are successful in their field and pretty nice folks

[Jockey]

ZFB and Jockey just agreed on something political?!? Did I consume copious amounts of the substance in question???

We were both probably high. We'll both try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

We were both probably high. We'll both try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Actually, I wasn't when I made my post, but did make up for it later on.