Weed Debate in Wisconsin

[Galway Eagle]

Just curious what the thoughts are around here. Saw Evers wanted to introduce Recreational in the budget.  Seems to be going alright to various degrees around the country. Should WI join the movement or no? And will they?

Added a poll so we could get an anonymous idea of the people debating this.

[GB Warrior]

Vice taxes are where it's at, so why let the northern IL suburbs reap all the benefits when we have budget shortfalls to fill?

There is legitimately no good reason not to

[Uncle Rico]

Just curious what the thoughts are around here. Saw Evers wanted to introduce Recreational in the budget.  Seems to be going alright to various degrees around the country. Should WI join the movement or no? And will they?

The Tavern League is dug in deep on this issue and the Tavern League of Wisconsin is a tough nut to crack.

The arguments being framed against it all go back to the Tavern League talking points.  It doesn’t make any sense to me because a lot of Tabern League partners would be in the weed business

[rocket surgeon]

more and more studies are showing pot to be a gateway drug. 

[Galway Eagle]

more and more studies are showing pot to be a gateway drug.

I invite you to share the studies. This topic should be an actual debate on it.

Do these studies show that weed leads to "trying" or sustained consistent use of other drugs? Do they compare against alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, prescription drugs (xanex, nirovam, painkillers, adderall), or even something as simple as sugar?

I only ask because if they're looking at who currently uses an illegal drug then that user has already shown to engage in illicit behavior and would be more likely to engage in other illicit behaviors. If they look at states where it is legal and compare against other legal substances they'd get a more accurate number of what it truly a gateway drug.

[tower912]

Revenue enhancer in Michigan.    I ran calls on two drunk drivers involved in car accidents this week but I have yet to run a call on someone who wrecked their car on weed.   

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It will be legal (and taxed) in Wisconsin eventually.

[Hards Alumni]

more and more studies are showing pot to be a gateway drug.

Bigger gateway drug are physician prescribed opiates.  Yet, those remain legal.

[tower912]

So true.   We (my fire department as well as the police department in my city) hand out NarCan like orange slices at a soccer game. 

[Uncle Rico]

more and more studies are showing pot to be a gateway drug.

More and more studies show pot is the leading cause of death in America

[GooooMarquette]

Bigger gateway drug are physician prescribed opiates.  Yet, those remain legal.

Yep. Opiates are a bigger gateway drug than marijuana, and cigarettes are a far more deadly one. Yet both are legal.

We're having a similar debate here in MN, with our Democratic governor and state legislators generally in favor and GOP legislators generally opposed.

[Goose]

Legalize it in WI and add sports betting while they are it. I would vote yes on both.

[Hards Alumni]

Legalize it in WI and add sports betting while they are it. I would vote yes on both.

Heavily tax both and earmark that money for education and infrastructure.  Similar to how Michigan earmarks their lotto money for education. 

Either way, I'm on board.

[Galway Eagle]

The Tavern League is dug in deep on this issue and the Tavern League of Wisconsin is a tough nut to crack.

The arguments being framed against it all go back to the Tavern League talking points.  It doesn’t make any sense to me because a lot of Tabern League partners would be in the weed business

So if someone posed the idea of a weed centric tavern to the tavern league would they be more likely to support it?

[GB Warrior]

I welcome rocket's research on this. My mother-in-law (as left as they come) ran labs for several decades that included studies on addictive tendencies of THC, and there's a thread to be pulled there (studies were in more concentrated and sustained forms than most consumers will experience). But the idea that it is anywhere near on par with other substance dependencies - both on an individual and societal level - has not really born out in what I've seen.

And 100% agree that the Tavern Leagues pockets are the primary barrier in WI

[Uncle Rico]

So if someone posed the idea of a weed centric tavern to the tavern league would they be more likely to support it?

They fight stricter drunk driving laws, so no 😬

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And I don't understand the Tavern League's point of view here.  They were also against smoking bans, but that turned out to be a big nothingburger too.

[tower912]

The tertiary effects of legalizing week include the explosion of CBD products at the different distributors.    CBD oils for anxiety relief or sleep help.    I haven't tried them yet, as there is still a gray area with work about using them, but muscle relaxing and pain relief gummies is definitely something I am going to investigate after I retire.   

[mu_hilltopper]

It will be legal (and taxed) in Wisconsin eventually.

This.

It. Is. Inevitable.

Why not get it over with and start collecting taxes?

[skianth16]

Heavily tax both and earmark that money for education and infrastructure.  Similar to how Michigan earmarks their lotto money for education. 

Either way, I'm on board.

All the numbers make sense. Should be a slam dunk. But it's a big mental shift for a good chunk of the population. Things people were raised to think of as bad or immoral, like drugs and gambling, can be hard to change your mind about. Facts don't always outweigh emotion.

[cheebs09]

How do other states handle drug tests with relation to employment? I work in the manufacturing industry, and I know we do drug tests and worry about people operating machinery. I suppose it is just like making sure someone isn’t drunk at work.

I believe the Tavern League was a thorn in the side for Covid based on shutting down bars and restaurants.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

How do other states handle drug tests with relation to employment? I work in the manufacturing industry, and I know we do drug tests and worry about people operating machinery. I suppose it is just like making sure someone isn’t drunk at work.

I believe the Tavern League was a thorn in the side for Covid based on shutting down bars and restaurants.

They are debating to make legal in Connecticut.

I'm in manufacturing also.  From what I understand is it up to the company.  If the company says the employees must be clean from MJ despite being legal in the state, and the employee tests positive then the company can fire said employee.

[Pakuni]

How do other states handle drug tests with relation to employment? I work in the manufacturing industry, and I know we do drug tests and worry about people operating machinery. I suppose it is just like making sure someone isn’t drunk at work.

I believe the Tavern League was a thorn in the side for Covid based on shutting down bars and restaurants.

In Illinois, employers can still conduct "reasonable" drug testing, including for pot, and refuse or terminate employment based on a positive test.

[Jockey]

Yep. Opiates are a bigger gateway drug than marijuana, and cigarettes are a far more deadly one. Yet both are legal.

We're having a similar debate here in MN, with our Democratic governor and state legislators generally in favor and GOP legislators generally opposed.

Same here. gOP calls the shots and they will not allow it.

[21Jumpstreet]

Absolutely yes. Making it legal not only brings in tax revenue (although I’m not for heavily taxing it, normal sales taxes are fine) but it does two more important things, to me anyway.

It allows people to use it as therapy, without fear of use or transport or difficulty getting products, for a myriad of health issues, like my father-in-law who passed from ALS.

It also potentially eliminates what I think is a wide imbalance in equal justice, the current creation enforcement of marijuana laws. The war on drugs, so to speak. A different topic for a different space, perhaps.

[Billy Hoyle]

This.

It. Is. Inevitable.

Why not get it over with and start collecting taxes?

My friends live in a town outside of Boulder who "opted out" when weed was legalized in Colorado, meaning they wouldn't permit dispensaries and thus would not take tax revenue. After a year they saw what they were missing out on, realized their massive mistake, and took in over $200k in revenue in the first five months.

In 2020 in Oregon sales were over $1 billion. up from $795 billion the previous year. $150 million in additional tax revenue is the result of that $1 billion. Michigan took in over $450 million in revenue in the first year of marijuana being legalized there; they made $5 million in tax revenue the first three months of legalization, $262 million annually is estimated by the end of the 2022-23 fiscal year. Why wouldn't Wisconsin want that?

As others have stated, the answer to that is the Tavern League.

It's anecdotal, but my dad, a retired physician, is very anti-drug. He drug tested my brother back in HS when a parent accused him of using. Zero tolerance in our home. Well, about a month ago my dad ended up in the hospital due to side effects from medication he is taking for restless leg. It affected his heart but if he didn't take it he couldn't sleep. On my suggestion, he got some THC/CBD gummies....and he's finally sleeping well.

[JWags85]

People fear what they don’t understand.  Many opposed to legal marijuana, that don’t have some moral objection like they would with drinking, stay grounded in remembering the stoner burnout they knew in the 70s or some other empirical example of someone they knew who smoked pot and lacked ambition.  Ignoring that many people they know actively use marijuana, in the same way many have a drink or two, and lead productive, ambitious, and exceptional lives.

Beyond that, the profound tax revenue being seen in many places should make it a no brainer.

[🏀]

rocket with the argument from the unnatural carnal knowledgeing 90s.

Legalize it, tax it. Working great in Illinois.

[HouWarrior]

Sargent Joe Friday explained the marijuana gateway in 1967....

Friday [to a drug dealer who is trying to pass drugs off as similar in effect to alcohol]:

I'll tell you what I know. I know in fact too many kids that begin with pot end up in heroin, then onto LSD. I know if you drink you suffer a loss of judgment if you drink to excess, but I also know that judgment returns when you sober up. I know, and so do you, that when you flip out on an acid trip you never know when you're gonna slip out again. This is now, Bentley, not a couple of years ago. We've had time now to see and study the effects of LSD. People who haven't had a dose in weeks sail out on another trip, they never know when. The minute they've dropped one acid capsule or ingested it in any way, they bought the farm. They've lost the chance to depend on or even restore that most precious of all inner senses, judgment. And in my way of thinking, without judgment you might as well be dead. Your brain is, so why not the rest of you?

Bentley, the drug dealer:

We were talking about marijuana.

Friday:

We still are; marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb.

So don't you try to equate liquor with marijuana, mister, not with me. You may sell that jazz to another pothead but not to somebody who spends most of their time holding some sick kid's head while he vomits and retches sitting on a curb stone at four o'clock in the morning. And when his knees get enough starch back in them so he can stand up and empty his pockets, you can bet he'll turn out a stick or two of marijuana. And you can double your money that he'll be holding a sugarcube or a cap or two. So don't you con me with your mind expansion slop, I deal with kids every day. I try to clean up the mess people like you make out of them. I'm the expert here. You're not.

[JWags85]

I know 50+ people who have used marijuana recreationally.  Raging in ages from 20 to 50+.  A number of them you could aptly describe as potheads at some point in their life.  Not a single one has ever dropped LSD much less meandered over to heroin.  I’m gonna shy away from using a fictional character from the 60s to advise on current marijuana debates and reform.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sargent Joe Friday explained the marijuana gateway in 1967....

Friday [to a drug dealer who is trying to pass drugs off as similar in effect to alcohol]:

I'll tell you what I know. I know in fact too many kids that begin with pot end up in heroin, then onto LSD. I know if you drink you suffer a loss of judgment if you drink to excess, but I also know that judgment returns when you sober up. I know, and so do you, that when you flip out on an acid trip you never know when you're gonna slip out again. This is now, Bentley, not a couple of years ago. We've had time now to see and study the effects of LSD. People who haven't had a dose in weeks sail out on another trip, they never know when. The minute they've dropped one acid capsule or ingested it in any way, they bought the farm. They've lost the chance to depend on or even restore that most precious of all inner senses, judgment. And in my way of thinking, without judgment you might as well be dead. Your brain is, so why not the rest of you?

Bentley, the drug dealer:

We were talking about marijuana.

Friday:

We still are; marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb.

So don't you try to equate liquor with marijuana, mister, not with me. You may sell that jazz to another pothead but not to somebody who spends most of their time holding some sick kid's head while he vomits and retches sitting on a curb stone at four o'clock in the morning. And when his knees get enough starch back in them so he can stand up and empty his pockets, you can bet he'll turn out a stick or two of marijuana. And you can double your money that he'll be holding a sugarcube or a cap or two. So don't you con me with your mind expansion slop, I deal with kids every day. I try to clean up the mess people like you make out of them. I'm the expert here. You're not.

Yeah I don't think I'm going to take advice from a fictional character from 54 years ago.

[tower912]

Well, if a fictional character from the 60's said ...... whoa.   I must be trippin', man. 

[Galway Eagle]

I thought he posted that as a joke to show how comical the argument is

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

[tower912]

I thought he posted that as a joke to show how comical the argument is

So did I.   Or, he might be lightheaded and a little out of it after finally getting his power and internet back.   

[HouWarrior]

I thought he posted that as a joke to show how comical the argument is

Of COURSE that was intended solely as comical....If you dont easily laugh at the bs of 60's tv and those over the top morality plays...your takin life too seriously.....Fluff; Wags

AND oh BTW, as I guess explaining was required ....this post was Laughable to all....BUT mainly it was a subtle zing at rocket's post that Mjane is a gateway...

he and I heard our parents and Joe Friday say that BS in the 60s ....but I have long since moved on from my parents teaching shortcuts of those days. Ye old gateway argument died with their generation Rocket buddy

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Gotcha houwarrior!

Hope you are heated and watered down there these days.

[StillAWarrior]

How do other states handle drug tests with relation to employment? I work in the manufacturing industry, and I know we do drug tests and worry about people operating machinery. I suppose it is just like making sure someone isn’t drunk at work.

It's much more difficult than determining if someone is drunk at work because when you test for BAC you are testing that person's level at that moment in time. When you test for marijuana, you are essentially testing the person over the past week or so. If someone goes out on Saturday night gets hammered, it's not going to show up in a breath or blood test on Monday. If someone goes out on Saturday night and gets high, it's going to show up on a test on Monday even if he/she is not impaired at all. It really can be a challenge for employers who feel strongly about their drug testing policy.  As it started here with Medical MJ, I've explained it to a lot of clients that it's not unlike an employee who has a totally legit pain killer prescription -- they're going to test positive (although if the employer is "doing it right" they probably won't receive notice of the positive), but as long as they aren't impaired, it's a non-issue. It's all about impairment. Employers are going to have to invest in training their management to recognize impairment and then have to support them when they make decisions. And there's a lot of money to be made if someone could develop a test that could identify current impairment.

On a side note, I've had a number of clients tell me, "if we tested for MJ, we wouldn't be able to operate." And these are in job classifications that I think most people would probably prefer testing.

[jesmu84]

I invite you to share the studies. This topic should be an actual debate on it.

Do these studies show that weed leads to "trying" or sustained consistent use of other drugs? Do they compare against alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, prescription drugs (xanex, nirovam, painkillers, adderall), or even something as simple as sugar?

I only ask because if they're looking at who currently uses an illegal drug then that user has already shown to engage in illicit behavior and would be more likely to engage in other illicit behaviors. If they look at states where it is legal and compare against other legal substances they'd get a more accurate number of what it truly a gateway drug.

Rocket will never answer you.

He'll drop some knowledge bomb and never come back to it.

Mostly because he has only heard talking heads spew biased opinions and hasn't actually done any research.

[jesmu84]

I see 2 problems with marijuana legalization/taxation (much like any other source of new funding/business)

1. As in Illinois, when starting out, it is crony capitalism. It isn't free-market. Those who get sales licenses are those who know someone.

2. Taxes can be fungible in a budget. Sure, a state might say all marijuana tax revenue goes to education. But they don't say that any previous tax revenue that was going to education is being moved to other areas which may result in a net negative toward education funding.

[StillAWarrior]

more and more studies are showing pot to be a gateway drug.

I've gotta admit, I considered starting a masturbation thread just so you could pop in and tell us that more and more studies show that it causes blindness.

[wadesworld]

I've gotta admit, I considered starting a masturbation thread just so you could pop in and tell us that more and more studies show that it causes blindness.

Hey now.  Heise is already obsessed enough with talking about circle jerks without the masturbation thread.  We don't need that.

[Jockey]

Absolutely yes. Making it legal not only brings in tax revenue (although I’m not for heavily taxing it, normal sales taxes are fine) but it does two more important things, to me anyway.

That isn't the way it works though. It will be taxed in the 35%-40% range. Just hit the store in Mundelein last week and the tax was over $40 on a $125 purchase.

[JWags85]

Of COURSE that was intended solely as comical....If you dont easily laugh at the bs of 60's tv and those over the top morality plays...your takin life too seriously.....Fluff; Wags

    Well played. Lets just say I have people I know who still view marijuana usage with that absurd of a lens.  Hell, I dated a girl in her 20s not long ago, who wasn’t at all puritanical or button up otherwise, who told me she could never date someone who used marijuana or similar products regularly cause she was attracted to work ethic and ambition and she knew where that stuff would lead 

[Galway Eagle]

  Well played. Lets just say I have people I know who still view marijuana usage with that absurd of a lens.  Hell, I dated a girl in her 20s not long ago, who wasn’t at all puritanical or button up otherwise, who told me she could never date someone who used marijuana or similar products regularly cause she was attracted to work ethic and ambition and she knew where that stuff would lead 

It is astonishing. One of my best friends is quite the avid user and has issues dating because of his consistent use of a dab pen. This guy who runs his own contracting business, has flipped 2 houses himself, is my business partner for making our whiskey, is a landlord and graduated from MU. But just because of the stigma of weed girls won't give him a second date. Now it's probably also because he's hitting the pen at the table while on said date but that's a different issue.

[DegenerateDish]

If Wisconsin is smart, they would set a tax rate on pot below Illinois rates. It’s ridiculous how high the rates are in Illinois.

[Uncle Rico]

If Wisconsin is smart, they would set a tax rate on pot below Illinois rates. It’s ridiculous how high the rates are in Illinois.

Well, we aren’t smart, so..

[Hards Alumni]

Well, we aren’t smart, so..

But we're cheap as hell, so...

[Johnny B]

more and more studies are showing pot to be a gateway drug.

lets say maybe it is. my question is where is the line drawn between the idea of personal freedom/liberty to use or do somthing and somthing being so unhealthy it needs to be banned?? and why? heart disease will kill drastically more than weed will lead to hard drug ODs. should fast food be banned?? goofy argument. its so random and inconsistant. explain the logic please.

[jesmu84]

If anyone truly values freedom and liberty, then they support legalization of all drugs.

If you're against legalization of all drugs, then you don't actually support freedom in this country.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It is astonishing. One of my best friends is quite the avid user and has issues dating because of his consistent use of a dab pen. This guy who runs his own contracting business, has flipped 2 houses himself, is my business partner for making our whiskey, is a landlord and graduated from MU. But just because of the stigma of weed girls won't give him a second date. Now it's probably also because he's hitting the pen at the table while on said date but that's a different issue.

That sounds like a little bit too much weed, if the cat is hitting the pen at the dinner table on a first date.

[GooooMarquette]

And I don't understand the Tavern League's point of view here.  They were also against smoking bans, but that turned out to be a big nothingburger too.

My guess: An irrational fear that people will be laying around too stoned to head to the corner bar.

[JWags85]

My guess: An irrational fear that people will be laying around too stoned to head to the corner bar.

I don’t even think that, it’s just being viewed as an alternative to drinking, and they want none of that. If they viewed legalized gambling as a deterrent or strong alternative to heading to the bar, I would imagine they would be staunchly anti-legalized gambling in Wisconsin too

[Galway Eagle]

That sounds like a little bit too much weed, if the cat is hitting the pen at the dinner table on a first date.

But he's offering to share!

[WarriorFan]

Legalize it.
Tax the heck out of it.
Most importantly - regulate it for strength and content.

If my 16 year old is going to try it, I don't want him buying something laced with something truly addictive.

As for me... no thanks.  Workplace safety is too important and even if it is legalized, employers still need to be able to test to maintain a safe workplace. 

Anecdotally - and related to the dating comments - I've never met any "go-getters" or high potential employees who were also smokers.  The smokers I know are all very low motivation people.  Is that the pot, or were they like that anyway?  In most cases, they've been smoking since they were teenagers, so we'll never know.

[rocket surgeon]

I invite you to share the studies. This topic should be an actual debate on it.

Do these studies show that weed leads to "trying" or sustained consistent use of other drugs? Do they compare against alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, prescription drugs (xanex, nirovam, painkillers, adderall), or even something as simple as sugar?

I only ask because if they're looking at who currently uses an illegal drug then that user has already shown to engage in illicit behavior and would be more likely to engage in other illicit behaviors. If they look at states where it is legal and compare against other legal substances they'd get a more accurate number of what it truly a gateway drug.

  sorry eagle, didn't mean to ignore your post.  taking advantage of my last day down here in Az(until 3/18) golfing and "honey do list".  but i did see a recent study showing pot to be a gateway drug.  i'm sure we can find studies to tell us what we want to hear.  i really take no joy in this validation.  i agree this could be a good thread to discuss.  i haven't read beyond your comment so after i post this, i am looking forward to doing some catch up reading.

one thing that came to mind while writing this is that we now have more real data to draw upon as many states have legalized pot to some degree or another. 

[Galway Eagle]

  sorry eagle, didn't mean to ignore your post.  taking advantage of my last day down here in Az(until 3/18) golfing and "honey do list".  but i did see a recent study showing pot to be a gateway drug.  i'm sure we can find studies to tell us what we want to hear.  i really take no joy in this validation.  i agree this could be a good thread to discuss.  i haven't read beyond your comment so after i post this, i am looking forward to doing some catch up reading.

one thing that came to mind while writing this is that we now have more real data to draw upon as many states have legalized pot to some degree or another.

Hope you're enjoying yourself! I Played McCormick ranch last weekend.

[JWags85]

Anecdotally - and related to the dating comments - I've never met any "go-getters" or high potential employees who were also smokers.  The smokers I know are all very low motivation people.  Is that the pot, or were they like that anyway?  In most cases, they've been smoking since they were teenagers, so we'll never know.

Im curious what the age demos you’re speaking of.  In my experience, many of the older successful “users” you wouldn’t even know, cause its not like they make it an element of their personality.  I know a Harvard Law educated finance professional who is an active user, as well as his boss who is an actual legitimate billionaire, and they are both invested in the sector personally as well.  A late 30s entrepreneur I know, with 4 young kids, who has one of the most absurd work ethics ive ever seen, also is avid user of edible marijuana products.  His wife, who hasn’t drank since college, runs a graphic design business working with huge mall operators in addition to parenting said kids without a nanny or daycare, swears by gummies for sleep and helping to unwind due to various stressors.

Additionally, with edibles, CBD with THC products, etc... that are used for sleep aids, relaxation, etc... you have far more users than just someone smoking a joint.  And not for nothing, there are many people that you can’t necessarily speak to their drinking habits, outside of maybe that they are totally sober, so it stands to reason that there are marijuana users that you may not know of it.   

[rocket surgeon]

here is one point of view from NYT 2016

"Marijuana use is positively correlated with alcohol use and cigarette use, as well as illegal drugs like cocaine and methamphetamine. This does not mean that everyone who uses marijuana will transition to using heroin or other drugs, but it does mean that people who use marijuana also consume more, not less, legal and illegal drugs than do people who do not use marijuana.

People who are addicted to marijuana are three times more likely to be addicted to heroin."

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

hey, i'm open to a conversation on this topic as long as we can do this without beating the sh!t out of each other-

  tower made mention of picking up the pieces of a couple of drunk drivers recently, but not tokers.  how do you know they weren't smokin as well? 

it would be helpful if we had a test similar to BAC on the spot

the reason i'm concerned about legalization is that it just adds another mind numbing "substance" to our growing list of drugs.  i will admit that some people can handle drugs & alcohol better than others. 

 i am in full agreement there are medicinal benefits to MJ.  someone here earlier mentioned that opioids were legal? not without a valid prescription.  docs are being held to a higher standard when prescribing anything above schedule III at least, but i am shocked by schedule IV although i am pretty confident we would get called out pretty quickly here as well.

    Substances in this schedule(IV) have a low potential for abuse relative to substances in Schedule III.

Examples of Schedule IV substances include: alprazolam (Xanax®), carisoprodol (Soma®), clonazepam (Klonopin®), clorazepate (Tranxene®), diazepam (Valium®), lorazepam (Ativan®), midazolam (Versed®), temazepam (Restoril®), and triazolam (Halcion®).


    everything is being watched very carefully and rightly so.  as long as it can be justified, we have nothing to worry about.  the big issue is, if a patient is in that much pain to justify high numbers of opioids including refills, then the root cause of said pain isn't being properly addressed.   

   if someone is smoking a lot of pot(self prescribed) are the root causes being addressed?



       

 

[reinko]

here is one point of view from NYT 2016

"Marijuana use is positively correlated with alcohol use and cigarette use, as well as illegal drugs like cocaine and methamphetamine. This does not mean that everyone who uses marijuana will transition to using heroin or other drugs, but it does mean that people who use marijuana also consume more, not less, legal and illegal drugs than do people who do not use marijuana.

People who are addicted to marijuana are three times more likely to be addicted to heroin."

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

hey, i'm open to a conversation on this topic as long as we can do this without beating the sh!t out of each other-

  tower made mention of picking up the pieces of a couple of drunk drivers recently, but not tokers.  how do you know they weren't smokin as well? 

it would be helpful if we had a test similar to BAC on the spot

the reason i'm concerned about legalization is that it just adds another mind numbing "substance" to our growing list of drugs.  i will admit that some people can handle drugs & alcohol better than others. 

 i am in full agreement there are medicinal benefits to MJ.  someone here earlier mentioned that opioids were legal? not without a valid prescription.  docs are being held to a higher standard when prescribing anything above schedule III at least, but i am shocked by schedule IV although i am pretty confident we would get called out pretty quickly here as well.

    Substances in this schedule(IV) have a low potential for abuse relative to substances in Schedule III.

Examples of Schedule IV substances include: alprazolam (Xanax®), carisoprodol (Soma®), clonazepam (Klonopin®), clorazepate (Tranxene®), diazepam (Valium®), lorazepam (Ativan®), midazolam (Versed®), temazepam (Restoril®), and triazolam (Halcion®).


    everything is being watched very carefully and rightly so.  as long as it can be justified, we have nothing to worry about.  the big issue is, if a patient is in that much pain to justify high numbers of opioids including refills, then the root cause of said pain isn't being properly addressed.   

   if someone is smoking a lot of pot(self prescribed) are the root causes being addressed?



       

So your one source is an opinion piece from the FAKE NEWS NY Times?

[rocket surgeon]

So your one source is an opinion piece from the FAKE NEWS NY Times?

 no, just one of them i came upon.  as i said in one of my posts, anyone here could find what they want to find to back their point of view and that's not what i came here for.   i am honestly open to hearing what many of you have already posted.  i came here for a civil discussion, but you are one of them who are incapable of that so either get help or fook off.

[🏀]

So your one source is an opinion piece from the FAKE NEWS NY Times?

From five years ago, despite massive amounts of new data readily available.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

WI should legalize it, but not as part of the budget.  Should be its own bill with proper legislature processes.

[Jockey]

WI should legalize it, but not as part of the budget.  Should be its own bill with proper legislature processes.

Agreed.

[JWags85]

ZFB and Jockey just agreed on something political?!? Did I consume copious amounts of the substance in question???

[ZiggysFryBoy]

ZFB and Jockey just agreed on something political?!? Did I consume copious amounts of the substance in question???

Jockitch has to be right once in a great while.   

[Hards Alumni]

That sounds like a little bit too much weed, if the cat is hitting the pen at the dinner table on a first date.

I agree.  I think using THC is fine... but people who make it such a large part of their personality... its going to turn a lot of people away.

[naginiF]

Anecdotally - and related to the dating comments - I've never met any "go-getters" or high potential employees who were also smokers.  The smokers I know are all very low motivation people.  Is that the pot, or were they like that anyway?  In most cases, they've been smoking since they were teenagers, so we'll never know.

My experience is quite the opposite and I think you'd be surprised by the number of successful professionals who smoke pot. When I first hit executive level at Sprint (20 odd yrs ago) I got assigned an Exec Coach and within 3 months she mentioned that a number of execs and officers she coaches use marijuana to offset the stress and that it may be a good method for me. And yeah, there were a lot of sr execs that got high.

Also, there are a decent number of pot heads that have kids at the same school we do - lawyers, business owners, executives, etc. all the ones I know are successful in their field and pretty nice folks

[Jockey]

ZFB and Jockey just agreed on something political?!? Did I consume copious amounts of the substance in question???

We were both probably high. We'll both try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

We were both probably high. We'll both try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Actually, I wasn't when I made my post, but did make up for it later on.