The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[Lennys Tap]

Can't remember ...

Was there this much angst about Yelich's contract when he signed it?

No. He was in his prime (28?) and coming off of 6.6 and 6.4 WAR seasons. Bottom line:

If he's the guy who played in Miami it's a fair deal to both sides.

If he's the guy he was in his first two seasons in Milwaukee it's a steal for the Brewers.

If he's the guy he's been the last two years it's money down the drain.

[MuggsyB]

Because of your height sensitivity, Muggsy?   Or because of him having the throwing yips last year?   

Stealing signs have been part of baseball forever.   Same thing in football, which is why you have three guys signaling in plays.   And radio receivers.   Remember the Patriots getting fined a few years ago?

Houston went high tech.  Eventually, they got busted.   They were punished within the  established rules.  And they were held in contempt by players and fans alike.   There isn't a crap-ton else that can be done.

And honestly, the best story line remaining is Houston coming back from their collective sins.   

Altuve is only 5'5 but his decisions were quite troubling to the diminutive contingent that supported him.  Especially the kids.  Don't forget Tower there are not many superstar athletes that are on the small side.  You can't cheat like that and the fact that you're insinuating this is commonplace doesn't concern me.   

Regardless, we must press onward.  There will be a time when smaller citizens of the world unite and then all bets are off.  I will shout out a warning to all MU hoop fans but this will not be an ephemeral attack and power grab such as the great Lilliputian take down of 1726.  I'm not talking a  physical evisceration, it will be a comprehensive societal shift.  It will not be gradual and outside those I have warned it will take everyone by surprise. 

[tower912]

The way the Astros did it is not commonplace.   Hence the fallout.    Runners on second relaying signs?    Forever.    Guys in the dugout watching the third base coach to pick up their signs?    Forever.       

Stories about Bird or LeBron or Michael on defense telling the offensive players what play they are going to run?    Stuff of legend.   

The Astros found a new, high tech way to steal signs.    They got busted.    Time to move on. 

[#UnleashSean]

Couldn't they be given a much harsher penalty?  LIke postseason bans or two year suspensions for players?  I dunno.  Seems ridiculous you can get away with  with blatant cheating.

Again it's not the ncaa. A post season ban for an mlb team would be downright stupid for competition and financially. See above, they couldn't touch the players.

[Herman Cain]

I am ok with Shefter having his worked checked on a complex issue.

It appears as if the NFL is trying to discredit him for some reason.

[buckchuckler]

Again it's not the ncaa. A post season ban for an mlb team would be downright stupid for competition and financially. See above, they couldn't touch the players.

As was noted above, they could have punished the players.  They chose to give them immunity and not pursue any punishment.

[Uncle Rico]

The way the Astros did it is not commonplace.   Hence the fallout.    Runners on second relaying signs?    Forever.    Guys in the dugout watching the third base coach to pick up their signs?    Forever.       

Stories about Bird or LeBron or Michael on defense telling the offensive players what play they are going to run?    Stuff of legend.   

The Astros found a new, high tech way to steal signs.    They got busted.    Time to move on.

The whole thing still makes me chuckle.  Electronic surveillance has been going on for a lot longer than Houston.  The '51 Giants are one of the most celebrated baseball teams ever and they "cheated"their way to that pennant

[tower912]

Don't get me started on air flow at the Metrodome.

[Jockey]

No. He was in his prime (28?) and coming off of 6.6 and 6.4 WAR seasons. Bottom line:

If he's the guy who played in Miami it's a fair deal to both sides.

If he's the guy he was in his first two seasons in Milwaukee it's a steal for the Brewers.

If he's the guy he's been the last two years it's money down the drain.

Physically, Yelich is a different guy. The back problems have destroyed the things he could do. His swing is different because he doesn't have the torque that he had. He has a hard time turning on a fastball. He has a hard time reaching out for pitches on the outer edge. He can't run any more - 1/4 of the SBs the last 2 years as the two years prior.

Hopefully, with a full off-season, they can get him on a program to get him back to where he was. But, backs are always tricky.

[PGsHeroes32]

Couldn't they be given a much harsher penalty?  LIke postseason bans or two year suspensions for players?  I dunno.  Seems ridiculous you can get away with  with blatant cheating.

2 year suspensions?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I hate that Astros as much as the next person. But my god would that be excessive.

[Pakuni]

The whole thing still makes me chuckle.  Electronic surveillance has been going on for a lot longer than Houston.  The '51 Giants are one of the most celebrated baseball teams ever and they "cheated"their way to that pennant

Another team cheated 70 years ago, so their cheating is NBD?
Looks like the next team to fix a World Series is in the clear.

[BrewCity83]

Not basing this on tonight, but Hader is a piece that can be moved to get better on offense.  There's no one on the staff that can replace him but I feel good about the front office finding arms to fill that role.

One of the big 3 starters can get moved, too.  I think they can start the year with Houser/Lauer/Ashby filling the final 3 spots and try getting an Anderson type as a swing man 6th starter.

The injuries to Williams and Suter were crushing, especially Suter who would have replaced Freddie yesterday. 

I admit, this one hurts a lot more than 2018 because I think they're better than how they played

As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable.  When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.

No way do they trade one of the big three starters now--their contracts are a small-market team's dream.  When the money gets too much to handle, that's when they're moved, but not a month before.  Next year's rotation:  Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Ashby/Houser/Lauer.  Hopefully they whittle that down to a 5-man rotation...

[wadesworld]

As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable.  When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.

No way do they trade one of the big three starters now--their contracts are a small-market team's dream.  When the money gets too much to handle, that's when they're moved, but not a month before.  Next year's rotation:  Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Ashby/Houser/Lauer.  Hopefully they whittle that down to a 5-man rotation...

Bingo to all of this.

Hader's only been successful in the Playoffs when his roll was "enter the game at the highest leverage situation." Throw him for 2 innings, sit him for a game and a travel day. He hasn't been good in the exclusively closer roll in the Playoffs.

[jficke13]

As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable.  When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.

No way do they trade one of the big three starters now--their contracts are a small-market team's dream.  When the money gets too much to handle, that's when they're moved, but not a month before.  Next year's rotation:  Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Ashby/Houser/Lauer.  Hopefully they whittle that down to a 5-man rotation...

That rotation is fantastic. The question is whether hitters either improve to their career means (Yelich, Hiura) or whether Stearns can pull impact bats out of their system/trade/FA market to improve their offense.

The bet was this past year that over 162 the pitching would win enough games to take the division. Baseball wisdom that pitching is what wins ballgames held true. Bats so prone to going into the freezer was always the achilles heel and it proved to be the downfall in a playoff series. They can run it back next year and hope the bats don't go cold in a short series, or hopefully do something to shore up that weakness.

[Uncle Rico]

Another team cheated 70 years ago, so their cheating is NBD?
Looks like the next team to fix a World Series is in the clear.

I think teams have already found new ways to cheat and will always find new ways to cheat.  🤷🏼‍♂️

[Pakuni]

I think teams have already found new ways to cheat and will always find new ways to cheat.  🤷🏼‍♂️

Oh, I agree. I just don't think the appropriate response when a team gets caught is to shrug one's shoulders and say "Hey, it happens."

[Lennys Tap]

The way the Astros did it is not commonplace.   Hence the fallout.    Runners on second relaying signs?    Forever.    Guys in the dugout watching the third base coach to pick up their signs?    Forever.       

The Astros found a new, high tech way to steal signs.    They got busted.    Time to move on.

If the third base coach or a catcher is sloppy and and the bench or a runner on second steal their signs it's on them - and it's not cheating. It's like noticing a pitcher who's tipping his pitches - good, smart baseball.

What the Astros did, though, is cheating pure and simple. No comparison.

[tower912]

They cheated and got caught.   They were punished.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Is is too early to start the "2022 MLB Pissing Thread" yet? 

[rocky_warrior]

Is is too early to start the "2022 MLB Pissing Thread" yet?

Give it until at least Halloween.

[Dish]

As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable.  When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but your logic is all wrong. His absolute max value has come and gone. He still has great value, but he's at $8 mil (totally fine), and then arb eligible. No team is going to trade for him if the Brewers gave him 3 years/$54 mil, quite certainly not for anything other than garbage minor leaguers. This isn't the late '90s anymore. A players max value is when they have a long term contract with cost control. That window on Hader is closing.

Same with their three starters. Peralta is far and away their greatest trade asset. If I were the Sox, I'd be offering Jimenez and Kelley as a starting point to gauge interest in Peralta. If they're going to trade Burnes or Woodruff, it behooves them to do it this off-season before either goes to arb.

I'm curious what the Brewers do. They have a dream rotation based on quality/age/cost. They'll pay those three guys just over $13 mil next season.

If I'm Milwaukee, I'd be in on Kris Bryant and all in on Schwarber.

[MU82]

No. He was in his prime (28?) and coming off of 6.6 and 6.4 WAR seasons. Bottom line:

If he's the guy who played in Miami it's a fair deal to both sides.

If he's the guy he was in his first two seasons in Milwaukee it's a steal for the Brewers.

If he's the guy he's been the last two years it's money down the drain.

Thanks for the info. That all makes sense - as did the contract when it was signed.

Hoping for good health for Yelich.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Give it until at least Halloween.

I have night sweats over your Yeli comment over his contract. I have memories of Soriano sugar plumbs dancing in my head. 

[cheebs09]

Dish, I'm curious why Schwarber. His all or nothing approach at the plate seems to be what keeps getting the Brewers in trouble. Granted, I know he was killing the ball in Washington.

[Dish]

Dish, I'm curious why Schwarber. His all or nothing approach at the plate seems to be what keeps getting the Brewers in trouble. Granted, I know he was killing the ball in Washington.

I believe the universal DH will be part of the new CBA, and I think Schwarber would give them a little diversity with him DH'ing/corner outfield/first base. I also think a team can't have enough left handed pop.

I will say, I thought Schwarber was on a one year $7-$8 mil deal. I forgot he's at $10, with a mutual option. My original thought was the Brewers could get him in their price range (say 2 years/$11 mil), but if he opts out, and the universal DH comes back, I'd guess he'd look for a 3 year deal around $40. That might be too expensive then.