Can't Take It Any Longer

[wadesworld]

I watched tamu games with and without him that season. A&M was significantly better with him on the floor. Many others here have supported my opinion while you try and disprove that with statements you believe to be true, but are actually false.

See above. Do we want advanced stats in our program? Seems like when it makes Wojo look worse, we want the advanced stats. When it makes Wojo look better, we want the eye test.

[panda]

See above. Do we want advanced stats in our program? Seems like when it makes Wojo look worse, we want the advanced stats. When it makes Wojo look better, we want the eye test.

Once again. He was the engine of the team. They played better with him than without him. No question about it as I watched them with and without.

5-8 without him
17-5 with him

You couldn't even count how many games he played and you're trying to convince me to look at stats?

[brewcity77]

See above. You cry for advanced stats. Then you champion a guy whose advanced stats are, well, that of just a guy. But you watched TAMU games. So throw the advanced stats out.

When he was healthy, he was a really good player. When he got hurt, his advanced stats were dragged down, which is why the fair comparison are his pre-injury numbers.

I really don't get why you are so hellbent on attacking Duane. This is a really bizarre hill to die on, especially when you have such a poor grasp of the facts. You try to discredit him with rankings, never mind that TAMU was a top-10 team when he was healthy. You try to use counting stats, ignoring that he was going for 12.1/4.5 when he got hurt. You try to discredit his metrics, but his ORtg cratered after the injury, so you aren't accounting for what he was doing when healthy. And you can't even count the games he played in accurately.

He was a starting point guard and important player averaging 27.1 mpg, 12.1 ppg, 4.5 apg with an ORtg of 107 for a top-10 team when he got hurt. He was a major piece of what they were doing. Very important player, whatever. He wasn't just-a-guy (Dexter Akanno is "just a guy").

He was a good player who could've contributed but transferred. It happens. Not the first, not the last. It happens to every coach for various reasons. Nothing to be ashamed of. So why you feel the need to crap all over a guy who gave his all at Marquette, who still works out with the Marquette TBT team every summer and cheers for them even when he doesn't make it, that just doesn't make sense to me.

[5DollarPitcher]

See above. Do we want advanced stats in our program? Seems like when it makes Wojo look worse, we want the advanced stats. When it makes Wojo look better, we want the eye test.

Well to be quite frank, Wojo teams fail the eye test and the advanced stats test. So it doesn't really matter what standard you hold him to.

Keep going tho, Wades. I'm enjoying this.

[wadesworld]

When he was healthy, he was a really good player. When he got hurt, his advanced stats were dragged down, which is why the fair comparison are his pre-injury numbers.

I really don't get why you are so hellbent on attacking Duane. This is a really bizarre hill to die on, especially when you have such a poor grasp of the facts. You try to discredit him with rankings, never mind that TAMU was a top-10 team when he was healthy. You try to use counting stats, ignoring that he was going for 12.1/4.5 when he got hurt. You try to discredit his metrics, but his ORtg cratered after the injury, so you aren't accounting for what he was doing when healthy. And you can't even count the games he played in accurately.

He was a starting point guard and important player averaging 27.1 mpg, 12.1 ppg, 4.5 apg with an ORtg of 107 for a top-10 team when he got hurt. He was a major piece of what they were doing. Very important player, whatever. He wasn't just-a-guy (Dexter Akanno is "just a guy").

He was a good player who could've contributed but transferred. It happens. Not the first, not the last. It happens to every coach for various reasons. Nothing to be ashamed of. So why you feel the need to crap all over a guy who gave his all at Marquette, who still works out with the Marquette TBT team every summer and cheers for them even when he doesn't make it, that just doesn't make sense to me.

Crap all over a guy? Lol. So if I'm crapping all over a guy because I say he's average and comparable to Junior Cadougan because, well, the numbers are damn near identical (and no, not the counting stats, the advanced stats you cry about MU not using), then what does that say about your feelings on Junior? Why are you crapping all over Junior Cadougan? Why would comparing someone to Junior be such a terrible thing? Did Junior not give everything he had to Marquette?

[5DollarPitcher]

Crap all over a guy? Lol. So if I'm crapping all over a guy because I say he's average and comparable to Junior Cadougan because, well, the numbers are damn near identical (and no, not the counting stats, the advanced stats you cry about MU not using), then what does that say about your feelings on Junior? Why are you crapping all over Junior Cadougan? Why would comparing someone to Junior be such a terrible thing? Did Junior not give everything he had to Marquette?

Would it be so outlandish to say Junior Cadougan played a lead role for MU? Senior starting PG, 4th on the team in scoring, 1st in assists, 2nd in minutes per game. He wasn't Vander but he played a lead role and definitely wasn't a JAG.

Just another guy means literally just another guy. Toss any old other guy in there and you get roughly the same results. That's unfair to both Cadougan and Duane.

But go off.

[wadesworld]

Would it be so outlandish to say Junior Cadougan played a lead role for MU? Senior starting PG, 4th on the team in scoring, 1st in assists, 2nd in minutes per game. He wasn't Vander but he played a lead role and definitely wasn't a JAG.

Just another guy means literally just another guy. Toss any old other guy in there and you get roughly the same results. That's unfair to both Cadougan and Duane.

But go off.

Right. They're average high major college basketball players. How that's bashing a kid is beyond me. Junior did not have a "lead role." He was a role player. Again, how that's bashing a kid I don't know. But apparently it is nowadays.

[5DollarPitcher]

Right. They're average high major college basketball players. How that's bashing a kid is beyond me. Junior did not have a "lead role." He was a role player. Again, how that's bashing a kid I don't know. But apparently it is nowadays.

How in the world does your starting PG that plays the second most minutes on the team (behind your best player) not play a "lead role". Now you're just being stubborn. Well you've been being stubborn but now it's getting a little embarrassing the way you are trying so hard to split this hair.

[wadesworld]

How in the world does your starting PG that plays the second most minutes on the team (behind your best player) not play a "lead role". Now you're just being stubborn. Well you've been being stubborn but now it's getting a little embarrassing the way you are trying so hard to split this hair.

Okay. I guess any player in America that plays a lot of minutes is just a total stud and if you call anyone an average player or a role player you're a disgusting human being who bashes kids giving their all to your school.

Seriously. Get over yourself. Duane was an average high major player. Junior is an average high major player. There's nothing wrong with that. That still makes them the top 0.001% of people at what they do. But Wojo's had a lot of average high major players. He needs to do better at either recruiting or developing studs.

But you better not say this team stinks or any of the players stink because damnit all they're giving it their best and it's disgusting anyone would say they're anything but the most talented kids in all of basketball.

[5DollarPitcher]

Okay. I guess any player in America that plays a lot of minutes is just a total stud and if you call anyone an average player or a role player you're a disgusting human being who bashes kids giving their all to your school.

Seriously. Get over yourself. Duane was an average high major player. Junior is an average high major player. Wojo's had a lot of average high major players. He needs to do better at either recruiting or developing studs.

But you better not say this team stinks or any of the players stink because damnit all they're giving it their best and it's disgusting anyone would say they're anything but the most talented kids in all of basketball.

Who in the world said total stud? The entire game of semantics you chose to zero in on was the phraseology "lead role". Now that your position has been proven illogical by like four different posters you're going to go ahead and carry the goalposts over to "total stud".

By the way you called him a JAG. "Just another guy" was your phraseology not mine or Brew or anyone else. Junior Cadougan was not just another guy on the 2013 team. Calling him that is spitting in the face of everything he did for MU which was a great career which, in one season, amounted to more team accolades and success than we've seen in 7 years combined from Wojo's teams.

I know you're going to go on and on and on because you are incapable of giving up or backing down. Knock yourself out. But, in my opinion, everything that needs to be said has been said.

[brewcity77]

Crap all over a guy? Lol. So if I'm crapping all over a guy because I say he's average and comparable to Junior Cadougan because, well, the numbers are damn near identical (and no, not the counting stats, the advanced stats you cry about MU not using), then what does that say about your feelings on Junior? Why are you crapping all over Junior Cadougan? Why would comparing someone to Junior be such a terrible thing? Did Junior not give everything he had to Marquette?

You got the counting stats and the advanced stats wrong, so your position isn't defensible on either.

The initial question was "How many really good players have left the program over his tenure only to play a lead role on a team ranked much better than ours?" and you asserted that was inaccurate.

Duane was averaging 12.1/4.5 in 27.1 mpg on 107 ORtg. Those numbers are really good. Not All-American, not All-SEC, but any program will take that from a starter.

He played a lead role because of the minutes he contributed, the raw numbers he produced, and the impact he had on the team. The numbers support that, and everyone that watched that team is reinforcing what the numbers already tell us.

And his team was ranked 5th in the country both in kenpom and the AP Poll, which are higher than any Marquette rankings in the past 15+ years.

So Duane matches every point mentioned in the question. And while I didn't bring him up, Junior Cadougan does not equal Duane in any of those points. Junior never averaged double-digits, never averaged over 100 ORtg, and was never on a top-5 team. So that comparison is out the window.

[wadesworld]

Like I said. Ignore the numbers and hang the dude's jersey in the Fiserv. He was literally never anything more than an average (just a guy) high major player. Sorry if that's "spitting in the face of a player."

[4everwarriors]

In fightin' amongst da woke...priceless.

Science is real
Women's rights are human rights
No human is illegal
Love is love
BLM
Kindness is everything

Hate has no home here, aina?

#hypocrites

[hairy worthen]

In fightin' amongst da woke...priceless.

Science is real
Women's rights are human rights
No human is illegal
Love is love
BLM
Kindness is everything

Hate has no home here, aina?

#hypocrites

Poking the bear with a stick early this morning I see. Well done.

[4everwarriors]

Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh, Lord, kumbaya (oh, Lord, kumbaya)...,hey?

[The Sultan]

weak argument...I mean, weak. I believe I speak for the majority... ALL lives matter. You see color, apparently. I don't. I expect the TEAM to do well. Like I said, your moniker speaks for itself. btw, please don't reply. I'm not going to engage in nickel & dime BS as you like to do with others here.

You see color.  Everyone sees color. 

[jesmu84]

You see color.  Everyone sees color.

His comment was the dumbest argument against BLM.

Why are we giving the vaccine to old people first??? ALL ages matter!

[Spotcheck Billy]

Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh, Lord, kumbaya (oh, Lord, kumbaya)...,hey?

Best president in our lifetimes aina?

[onepost]

I've been saying this since the day Sam and Joey transferred out, check the receipts.
This program is going nowhere until a change is made.

[Boozemon Barro]

I'd rather lose big time with a revolving door of coaches than wait another decade to see what Wojo's ceiling is.

[connie]

I really dislike the "you have to know what you are replacing him with" argument.  What total bs.  That mentality leaves the Packers with Mike McCarthy instead of the unknown dude who called plays for one season.  Every change is a risk, but sometimes--when what you have isn't working--you take that risk.  Could we continue to wait?  Sure.  I can't tell you why K or Wright weren't fired earlier.  Obviously their schools saw something they liked.  I see things with Wojo I like.  The things I see with Wojo I don't like, and now am convinced just are not going to change, I think justify taking a risk and moving on.  I can see both sides, so respect those that disagree.

[onepost]

Throw the bag at John Belien, he's sitting out there and would be a perfect fit for Marquette.

[The Sultan]

Throw the bag at John Belien, he's sitting out there and would be a perfect fit for Marquette.

He made $4M with the Cavs and was close to that with Michigan.  My guess is that there will be a bidding war for him as well so he very well make more than that.

Wojo makes just over $2M at a school that is in financial distress.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know if Duane was a lead guy,  just another guy or just another lead guy. What I do know is that he had no business trying to play through that last injury. Im sure he wanted to play but coach needed to sit him. The eventual season ending injury was an inevitable end.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In fightin' amongst da woke...priceless.

Imagine,  people who can agree on some things can disagree about other things.  We don't actually have to conform to what a central party thinks. You should try it some time