Can't Take It Any Longer

[brewcity77]

I don't disagree with any of this.  He helped a solid team.  We don't have to pretend he was the key ingredient to one of the very best teams in the country.  I loved Duane from the second he committed, and then loved him even more when he ripped into Nigel Hayes.  But injuries limited him to a role player for his college career.  Which is not someone who has a "lead role."

There's a reason they were 17-5 with him and 5-8 without. They were a much better team with him in the lineup. No, he didn't put up star numbers, but they were an excellent team with him and a mediocre team without him. Maybe it's coincidence, but from what I saw, they were at their best when he was at his best.

That said, they had that monster win over UNC in the Tournament without him, but it was their only top-50 win without him. 6-3 vs top-50 with Duane, 1-4 without him.

[wadesworld]

There's a reason they were 17-5 with him and 5-8 without. They were a much better team with him in the lineup. No, he didn't put up star numbers, but they were an excellent team with him and a mediocre team without him. Maybe it's coincidence, but from what I saw, they were at their best when he was at his best.

That said, they had that monster win over UNC in the Tournament without him, but it was their only top-50 win without him. 6-3 vs top-50 with Duane, 1-4 without him.

I don't know who was ranked where in terms of top 50, but against the 15 high major teams he played against, he averaged 7.5 points, 1.9 rebounds, 3.8 assists, and 2.3 turnovers in 22.5 minutes per game while shooting 36% and 29% from 3.  He's the very definition of "just a guy."  And certainly not playing a "lead role" on a great team.  He's just not.  An "important role player" is how I'd define him, both at TAMU and MU.

[Billy Hoyle]

Going through the Dukiet era showed everyone had far the program had fallen - a process that started long before he was hired.  But going through that time, and reemerging under O'Neill, was a better alternative than sticking with Majerus.  O'Neill came in from a successful program, and knew Marquette was behind. Bill Cords knew it too. 

Also, Majerus heading out on his own at Ball State and Utah was better for him.

Both had to get away from the Legacy of Al.  And it worked for both parties.

I had an old boss whose parents were close friends with the Majerus family. Now, this is in the early 2000's he told me this but Rick told them his biggest mistake was taking the MU job. He loved the school so much the negative results affected him personally. He also had friends turn on him because of MU's lack of success. He had to leave for his own good.

[brewcity77]

I don't know who was ranked where in terms of top 50, but against the 15 high major teams he played against, he averaged 7.4 points, 1.9 rebounds, 3.8 assists, and 2.3 turnovers in 22.5 minutes per game while shooting 36% and 29% from 3.  He's the very definition of "just a guy."  And certainly not playing a "lead role" on a great team.  He's just not.

He was averaging 27.1 mpg before the injury. He was putting up 12.1 ppg & 4.5 apg with a 107.0 offensive rating.

He wasn't the same after the injury, but anyone that doesn't think he was a major piece of that team and one of their most important players before he got hurt simply wasn't paying attention and to say so now is either faulty memory or denial of reality. They were ranked #5 on Pomeroy, #5 in the AP, #6 in the Coaches Poll, and #10 in T-Rank. Then he got hurt and they plummeted from those rankings.

I don't think he would've had the same impact had he stayed. He would've been fighting for minutes behind Rowsey and Howard, who were clearly behind him on Wojo's depth chart. But to say he wasn't a major piece of that TAMU team just doesn't comport with reality. I remember watching that team pretty frequently in the early parts of that season and Duane wasn't their star (Davis was), but he was just as important to what they did as Admon Gilder or DJ Hogg.

Calling him "just a guy" on that team is about as honest as Murff saying Travis Diener was a "dime-a-dozen." You can defend Wojo without minimizing the reality of what Duane was at TAMU.

[5DollarPitcher]

He was averaging 27.1 mpg before the injury. He was putting up 12.1 ppg & 4.5 apg with a 107.0 offensive rating.

He wasn't the same after the injury, but anyone that doesn't think he was a major piece of that team and one of their most important players before he got hurt simply wasn't paying attention and to say so now is either faulty memory or denial of reality. They were ranked #5 on Pomeroy, #5 in the AP, #6 in the Coaches Poll, and #10 in T-Rank. Then he got hurt and they plummeted from those rankings.

I don't think he would've had the same impact had he stayed. He would've been fighting for minutes behind Rowsey and Howard, who were clearly behind him on Wojo's depth chart. But to say he wasn't a major piece of that TAMU team just doesn't comport with reality. I remember watching that team pretty frequently in the early parts of that season and Duane wasn't their star (Davis was), but he was just as important to what they did as Admon Gilder or DJ Hogg.

Calling him "just a guy" on that team is about as honest as Murff saying Travis Diener was a "dime-a-dozen." You can defend Wojo without minimizing the reality of what Duane was at TAMU.

Wades/BLM is an insufferable contrarian that will grab a white knuckle hold on the most minute of details and fight them tooth and nail to try to appear “right” about something no matter how many times or ways you prove him wrong.

Eventually you just have to disengage and let him go to sleep thinking he got his win.

[wadesworld]

Wades/BLM is an insufferable contrarian that will grab a white knuckle hold on the most minute of details and fight them tooth and nail to try to appear “right” about something no matter how many times or ways you prove him wrong.

Eventually you just have to disengage and let him go to sleep thinking he got his win.

Yes. Because I don’t think Duane Wilson had a “leading roll” on a “top 25 team” because he was the 5th or 6th best player on a team that wasn’t in the top 25 means I’m contrarian lol.

He was averaging 27.1 mpg before the injury. He was putting up 12.1 ppg & 4.5 apg with a 107.0 offensive rating.

He wasn't the same after the injury, but anyone that doesn't think he was a major piece of that team and one of their most important players before he got hurt simply wasn't paying attention and to say so now is either faulty memory or denial of reality. They were ranked #5 on Pomeroy, #5 in the AP, #6 in the Coaches Poll, and #10 in T-Rank. Then he got hurt and they plummeted from those rankings.

I don't think he would've had the same impact had he stayed. He would've been fighting for minutes behind Rowsey and Howard, who were clearly behind him on Wojo's depth chart. But to say he wasn't a major piece of that TAMU team just doesn't comport with reality. I remember watching that team pretty frequently in the early parts of that season and Duane wasn't their star (Davis was), but he was just as important to what they did as Admon Gilder or DJ Hogg.

Calling him "just a guy" on that team is about as honest as Murff saying Travis Diener was a "dime-a-dozen." You can defend Wojo without minimizing the reality of what Duane was at TAMU.

First we wanted to focus on higher level competition and the team’s record. Then when we saw Duane didn’t play very well against high level competition it became let’s look at his numbers pre injury.  His injury ended his season.  So any numbers pre injury were his entire season numbers.  Which were not 12.1 ppg or 4.5 apg.

The guy was never more than a role player. He had 5 years in college and he was just a guy. You can revise history to make it look like he left Marquette and suddenly was an All American. But he wasn’t. He was TAMU’s Junior Cadougan. Solid guy to have on the team. Not a “lead role” unless you define that as a point guard. Which, again, eliminated Sam, Joey, and Deonte from this conversation.

But I’m glad he’s getting this narrative from MU fans. We should throw his number in the rafters. MU grad. Gave us 4 years. And just a giant player once he got free from Wojo.  I mean, we're seriously saying Duane Wilson was Travis Diener?!

Diener averaged 20, 7, and 4.  An Honorable Mention All American.  Duane was 9, 4, and 2.  Did he ever get even a single All Conference vote in his career?  I mean, come on.  You're definitely better than this.

[brewcity77]

First we wanted to focus on higher level competition and the team’s record. Then when we saw Duane didn’t play very well against high level competition it became let’s look at his numbers pre injury.  His injury ended his season.  So any numbers pre injury were his entire season numbers.  Which were not 12.1 ppg or 4.5 apg.

The guy was never more than a role player. He had 5 years in college and he was just a guy. You can revise history to make it look like he left Marquette and suddenly was an All American. But he wasn’t. He was TAMU’s Junior Cadougan. Solid guy to have on the team. Not a “lead role” unless you define that as a point guard. Which, again, eliminated Sam, Joey, and Deonte from this conversation.

But I’m glad he’s getting this narrative from MU fans. We should throw his number in the rafters. MU grad. Gave us 4 years. And just a giant player once he got free from Wojo.  I mean, we're seriously saying Duane Wilson was Travis Diener?!

Diener averaged 20, 7, and 4.  An Honorable Mention All American.  Duane was 9, 4, and 2.  Did he ever get even a single All Conference vote in his career?  I mean, come on.  You're definitely better than this.

You realize that Duane got injured after 13 games, correct? He then tried to come back despite the injury, was not the same player, and then shut it down. During that initial stretch, he was one of the best players on a consensus top-10 team. I didn't say he was an All-American. I didn't say he was All-Conference. But he was far more than just a caretaker Junior Cadougan.

I get it, you didn't watch TAMU after he went there. That's fine. He was an important player on that team when that team was in the top-10. If anything, their fall from the top-10 after he got hurt only increases his importance to the team, it doesn't decrease it as you falsely assert.

Also, the narrative you assert and the "Duane Wilson was Travis Diener" quote is absolutely, 100% a false equivocation that completely fails to actually read what I wrote. I said that you calling him "just a guy" is as honest as Murff calling Diener "Dime-a-dozen." That doesn't make the players the same, it makes the assertions equally bad. And your assertion is flat out bad.

Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself. Just take the L on this and move on.

[panda]

You realize that Duane got injured after 13 games, correct? He then tried to come back despite the injury, was not the same player, and then shut it down. During that initial stretch, he was one of the best players on a consensus top-10 team. I didn't say he was an All-American. I didn't say he was All-Conference. But he was far more than just a caretaker Junior Cadougan.

I get it, you didn't watch TAMU after he went there. That's fine. He was an important player on that team when that team was in the top-10. If anything, their fall from the top-10 after he got hurt only increases his importance to the team, it doesn't decrease it as you falsely assert.

Also, the narrative you assert and the "Duane Wilson was Travis Diener" quote is absolutely, 100% a false equivocation that completely fails to actually read what I wrote. I said that you calling him "just a guy" is as honest as Murff calling Diener "Dime-a-dozen." That doesn't make the players the same, it makes the assertions equally bad. And your assertion is flat out bad.

Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself. Just take the L on this and move on.

Don’t confuse wade with the facts

[wadesworld]

You realize that Duane got injured after 13 games, correct? He then tried to come back despite the injury, was not the same player, and then shut it down. During that initial stretch, he was one of the best players on a consensus top-10 team. I didn't say he was an All-American. I didn't say he was All-Conference. But he was far more than just a caretaker Junior Cadougan.

I get it, you didn't watch TAMU after he went there. That's fine. He was an important player on that team when that team was in the top-10. If anything, their fall from the top-10 after he got hurt only increases his importance to the team, it doesn't decrease it as you falsely assert.

Also, the narrative you assert and the "Duane Wilson was Travis Diener" quote is absolutely, 100% a false equivocation that completely fails to actually read what I wrote. I said that you calling him "just a guy" is as honest as Murff calling Diener "Dime-a-dozen." That doesn't make the players the same, it makes the assertions equally bad. And your assertion is flat out bad.

Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself. Just take the L on this and move on.

Duane played every single one of TAMU’s first  22 games. He then partially tore his ACL and did not play another game. Can you “come back” when you never left or missed time?

Right. To you, calling Diener “dime a dozen” (aka just a guy) is just as bad as calling Duane “just a guy.” You’re claiming they’re the same caliber. If you weren’t, calling Duane “just a guy” wouldn’t be close to “as honest” as calling Diener “dime a dozen.”

For someone who is clearly very upset at the lack of analytics MU uses, you sure seem to ignore the analytics when they disagree with your agenda. Duane was absolutely just a guy. He was never anything more.

But again, good for the guy for becoming equal to an All American and 2 time First Team All Conference, NBA player.

[panda]

Duane played every single one of TAMU’s first  22 games. He then partially tore his ACL and did not play another game. Can you “come back” when you never left or missed time?

Right. To you, calling Diener “dime a dozen” (aka just a guy) is just as bad as calling Duane “just a guy.” You’re claiming they’re the same caliber. If you weren’t, calling Duane “just a guy” wouldn’t be close to “as honest” as calling Diener “dime a dozen.”

For someone who is clearly very upset at the lack of analytics MU uses, you sure seem to ignore the analytics when they disagree with your agenda. Duane was absolutely just a guy. He was never anything more.

But again, good for the guy for becoming equal to an All American and 2 time First Team All Conference, NBA player.

He hurt his knee, missed three games, came back and then it was discovered he had a partially torn acl and his season was over.

Fact check shows he did not play in the first 22 games.

[wadesworld]

He hurt his knee, missed three games, came back and then it was discovered he had a partially torn acl and his season was over.

Fact check shows he did not play in the first 22 games.

Got it. So he played 5 high major games in which he was ineffective in 4 and had a great game against Penn State. Ate up on some cupcakes. And suddenly he’s Travis Diener.

Makes more sense now.

[panda]

Got it. So he played 5 high major games in which he was ineffective in 4 and had a great game against Penn State. Ate up on some cupcakes. And suddenly he’s Travis Diener.

Makes more sense now.

As I said before, he was the engine of a really, really good team, playing a solid point.

Frankly it’s pretty pathetic you’re trying to rip him now. You’ve been proven incorrect multiple times and have shifted the goalposts several times as well. Par for the course.

[wadesworld]

As I said before, he was the engine of a really, really good team, playing a solid point.

Frankly it’s pretty pathetic you’re trying to rip him now. You’ve been proven incorrect multiple times and have shifted the goalposts several times as well. Par for the course.

Yes. If you think Duane is less than Travis Diener you’re trying to rip him. Lol. Who’s moving the goalposts? He was average. You can try to explain it away as intangibles, injury, whatever. He was not Travis Diener. He did not have a “lead role.” He was a role player.

[Silent Verbal]

Wojo played Duane off the ball for most of his time at Marquette, which I don't think was the best way to use him.  He was a Buzz player through and through and his style didn't really fit with the other guys Wojo was bringing in.  He had kind of an unfortunate college career because of that.  Always liked his intensity and passion even though he struggled to find a role after that first season where he dropped 30 a couple times.

[Viper]

Wades/BLM is an insufferable contrarian that will grab a white knuckle hold on the most minute of details and fight them tooth and nail to try to appear “right” about something no matter how many times or ways you prove him wrong.

Eventually you just have to disengage and let him go to sleep thinking he got his win.

the BLM moniker says it all.

[wadesworld]

the BLM moniker says it all.

Yes.  Black lives do not matter to some.  But they'll still expect young black men to go out on the court and entertain them for $0.00.

[Viper]

Yes.  Black lives do not matter to some.  But they'll still expect young black men to go out on the court and entertain them for $0.00.

weak argument...I mean, weak. I believe I speak for the majority... ALL lives matter. You see color, apparently. I don’t. I expect the TEAM to do well. Like I said, your moniker speaks for itself. btw, please don’t reply. I’m not going to engage in nickel & dime BS as you like to do with others here.

[wadesworld]

Season A: 8.5 points, 3.8 assists, 2.9 rebounds, 2.5 turnovers in 28.1 mpg.  eFG% 45.8, total rebounding % 6.7, assist % 28.3, turnover % 22.5, usage 20.9%

Season B: 19.7 points, 7.0 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 2.5 turnovers in 34 mpg.  eFG% 52.9, total rebounding % 6.9, assist % 53.3, turnover % 13.2, usage 29.7%

Season C: 9.0 points, 4.0 assists, 2.0 rebounds, 2.4 turnovers in 24.0 mpg.  eFG% 44.6%, total rebounding % 4.6, assist % 29.7, turnover % 20.7, usage 22.9%

I apologize for being wrong.  Season B and Season C are eerily similar, and it's sad anyone would bash Season C by comparing it favorably to Season A.  Season A is that of "a caretaker" while Season C was a "lead role."

Apologies.  I'll take my loss.

[wadesworld]

weak argument...I mean, weak. I believe I speak for the majority... ALL lives matter. You see color, apparently. I don’t. I expect the TEAM to do well. Like I said, your moniker speaks for itself. btw, please don’t reply. I’m not going to engage in nickel & dime BS as you like to do with others here.

Ahh yes.  "All lives matter" and "I don't see color."  Good God.

I have no problem exposing you for what you are.  If you don't like it that's up to you.  I'm not going to bail you out and let you spew your racist talking points and then just not respond because you don't want to debate.  Don't want to debate?  Don't.  It's pretty simple.

[brewcity77]

Duane played every single one of TAMU’s first  22 games. He then partially tore his ACL and did not play another game. Can you “come back” when you never left or missed time?

Literally everything there is untrue. Proof you don't know what you're talking about.

Right. To you, calling Diener “dime a dozen” (aka just a guy) is just as bad as calling Duane “just a guy.” You’re claiming they’re the same caliber. If you weren’t, calling Duane “just a guy” wouldn’t be close to “as honest” as calling Diener “dime a dozen.”

Diener was not dime-a-dozen. Duane was not just a guy. Both are absolutely untrue.

For someone who is clearly very upset at the lack of analytics MU uses, you sure seem to ignore the analytics when they disagree with your agenda. Duane was absolutely just a guy. He was never anything more.

I've provided receipts. You've provided at best ignorance, at worst lies and either way blatant misunderstandings of the numbers. You're so deep in the L you may as well be getting your information from OANN.

[wadesworld]

Literally everything there is untrue. Proof you don't know what you're talking about.

Diener was not dime-a-dozen. Duane was not just a guy. Both are absolutely untrue.

I've provided receipts. You've provided at best ignorance, at worst lies and either way blatant misunderstandings of the numbers. You're so deep in the L you may as well be getting your information from OANN.

See above. You cry for advanced stats. Then you champion a guy whose advanced stats are, well, that of just a guy. But you watched TAMU games. So throw the advanced stats out.

[panda]

Yes. If you think Duane is less than Travis Diener you’re trying to rip him. Lol. Who’s moving the goalposts? He was average. You can try to explain it away as intangibles, injury, whatever. He was not Travis Diener. He did not have a “lead role.” He was a role player.

I have to give you credit. I’ve never seen someone be so blissfully ignorant while being proven wrong time and time again. Congrats

[wadesworld]

I have to give you credit. I’ve never seen someone be so blissfully ignorant while being proven wrong time and time again. Congrats

See above. Or just say “you’re wrong” because you have nothing to show Duane was anything more than an average high major player.

[panda]

See above. Or just say “you’re wrong” because you have nothing to show Duane was anything more than an average high major player.

I watched tamu games with and without him that season. A&M was significantly better with him on the floor. Many others here have supported my opinion while you try and disprove that with statements you believe to be true, but are actually patently false.

[5DollarPitcher]

I've provided receipts. You've provided at best ignorance, at worst lies and either way blatant misunderstandings of the numbers. You're so deep in the L you may as well be getting your information from OANN.