Can't Take It Any Longer

[Not A Serious Person]

A different way of looking at it.

He dominated the colonial conference with Hofstra

That did not happen until his sixth season at Hofstra.

[Not A Serious Person]

Wojo is bad. I don't know how anybody defends it at this point.

First, he is not.  Yes, it has been uneven.  But, as I noted above, I still don't think he has hit his ceiling.

Second, this is a lazy argument.

I'm open to firing any coach in any sport this season if you can make an argument for who should replace them and why that is an upgrade.

So you fire Wojo, and replace him with who?

1) Hotshot assistant.  Since they have no track record, that is guessing that he works out.  Besides, MU has done this many times with the hottest assistant names. See Hank, Majerus, O'Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo.

2) Proven mid-major coach?  So, you take Brian Wardle, or a Brian Wardle type, and hope they are not the next Bob Dukiet or Mike Deane.  Good luck

3) Take a big "name." St. Johns did this with Chris Mullins and Georgetown did with Patrick Ewing.  How's that working out.

4) A retread?  See My Ben Howland comments above.  So, you can Wojo and hire Steve Lavin, or a Steve Lavin type.  Feel better?

My point is you have to be absolutely sure Wojo is at his ceiling and that is not acceptable.  I do not think he is at his ceiling.

So firing him and means you are ready to throw a dart at the NCAA coaches convention and take whatever ass it hits.  Are you really ready for MU to do that?  Is that an upgrade?

[Bad_Reporter]

First, he is not.  Yes, it has been uneven.  But, as I noted above, I still don't think he has hit his ceiling.

Second, this is a lazy argument.

I'm open to firing any coach in any sport this season if you can make an argument for who should replace them and why that is an upgrade.

So you fire Wojo, and replace him with who?

1) Hotshot assistant.  Since they have no track record, that is guessing that he works out.  Besides, MU has done this many times with the hottest assistant names. See Hank, Majerus, O'Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo.

2) Proven mid-major coach?  So, you take Brian Wardle, or a Brian Wardle type, and hope they are not the next Bob Dukiet or Mike Deane.  Good luck

3) Take a big "name." St. Johns did this with Chris Mullins and Georgetown did with Patrick Ewing.  How's that working out.

4) A retread?  See My Ben Howland comments above.  So, you can Wojo and hire Steve Lavin, or a Steve Lavin type.  Feel better?

My point is you have to be absolutely sure Wojo is at his ceiling and that is not acceptable.  I do not think he is at his ceiling.

So firing him and means you are ready to throw a dart at the NCAA coaches convention and take whatever ass it hits.  Are you really ready for MU to do that?  Is that an upgrade?

I’m not saying Wardle is the answer, but if I had two choices between him and wojo, it’s a no brainer.

Look at his record compared to Steve’s.  There is no comparison.  Steve has all of the resources, wardle had none and still did more

[HutchwasClutch]

Wojo is bad. I don't know how anybody defends it at this point.

People honestly still defending him and arguing or questioning if it’s really  time to move on are quite frankly too stupid to comment on anything to do with college basketball.   The evidence is so overwhelming he is completely in over his head now. 

[Silent Verbal]

Wojo has completed six seasons.

Here is the first six seasons of a current BE coach.
Who is it? Hint, you would trade Wojo for him in a hot second?

2010–11   13–17   7–11   12th   
2011–12   21–13   8–10   10th   NIT Second Round
2012–13   15–18   3–15   13th   
2013–14   17–17   6–12   8th   
2014–15   16–15   6–12   T–7th   
2015–16   25–9    12–6   3rd   NCAA Round of 64

When Willard took over Seton Hall, they were, along with Rutgers, St. John's, and South Florida, one of the absolute joke teams in the Big East.  It was a moribund program that had zero momentum.  When Wojo took over Marquette, the team wasn't great, but the *program* was in great shape.  Marquette had been to the NCAA tournament in 8 of the last 9 seasons, they were drawing huge crowds in an NBA arena, had a first rate practice facility, lots of very recent Tournament success, and Wojo's resources were basically unlimited, or at least way better than what Willard surely had when he took over SH.  The turnaround Willard's achieved there has been quite impressive, and isn't really comparable to Wojo's situation at Marquette, except for the fact that they play in the same conference.

[HutchwasClutch]

I’m not saying Wardle is the answer, but if I had two choices between him and wojo, it’s a no brainer.

Look at his record compared to Steve’s.  There is no comparison.  Steve has all of the resources, wardle had none and still did more

A mannequin may be preferable to Wojo.

[Silent Verbal]

First, he is not.  Yes, it has been uneven.  But, as I noted above, I still don't think he has hit his ceiling.

Second, this is a lazy argument.

I'm open to firing any coach in any sport this season if you can make an argument for who should replace them and why that is an upgrade.

So you fire Wojo, and replace him with who?

1) Hotshot assistant.  Since they have no track record, that is guessing that he works out.  Besides, MU has done this many times with the hottest assistant names. See Hank, Majerus, O'Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo.

2) Proven mid-major coach?  So, you take Brian Wardle, or a Brian Wardle type, and hope they are not the next Bob Dukiet or Mike Deane.  Good luck

3) Take a big "name." St. Johns did this with Chris Mullins and Georgetown did with Patrick Ewing.  How's that working out.

4) A retread?  See My Ben Howland comments above.  So, you can Wojo and hire Steve Lavin, or a Steve Lavin type.  Feel better?

My point is you have to be absolutely sure Wojo is at his ceiling and that is not acceptable.  I do not think he is at his ceiling.

So firing him and means you are ready to throw a dart at the NCAA coaches convention and take whatever ass it hits.  Are you really ready for MU to do that?  Is that an upgrade?

To say that Wojo hasn't reached his ceiling is a bit disingenuous.  I believe he did reach his ceiling in 2018-19.  We had a really, really good team that year and were ranked in the top 10 at one point.  And then Wojo lost the locker room and we completely collapsed to end the year.  This, along with all of the other mistakes Wojo has made during his time at Marquette, points to a guy who simply is not good at running a program.  He's pretty much a chicken with his head cut off right now.  There is no system in place, the team and game plans (or lack thereof) seem entirely different each year, to the point where we're basically starting over every single season.  The real problem isn't necessarily recruiting or bad coaching, though an argument could certainly be made for the latter.  It's that Wojo is simply bad at running a high major program.  He continually makes bad decisions and seems to have no control over his program's destiny.

As far as the options you've listed, yeah, anytime you make a coaching change, there's going to be risk involved, but Wojo is now a sunk cost.  At some point, MU will need to take the leap and go in a different direction.  Perhaps the next guy won't do better, but that's a chance the people doing the hiring will have to take.  Wojo's been here seven years now.  That's a large enough sample size to judge him on.

[MU82]

I'm open to firing any coach in any sport this season if you can make an argument for who should replace them and why that is an upgrade.

So you fire Wojo, and replace him with who?

I could make an argument to fire him, or I could make an argument to keep him. There are enough facts available for either side to make a strong case.

One argument I will not make, however is this one: Even if it is deemed that he sucks, Marquette shouldn't fire him unless we're sure that the next coach will be better.

That's silly. There never are assurances. For example, we didn't know Crean would be better than Deane. But Deane still had to go, and we had to trust that whomever we hired would do better.

Once you determine that your coach isn't good enough - a determination that often comes when you realize that either you have to extend his contract or move on - you make the break, you conduct as much due diligence as is humanly possible, and you hire the replacement.

I do agree with what you say about trying to determine if Wojo has reached his "ceiling," though again, that's just an opinion. There is no way to know. We could fire Wojo and he could click big-time at his next school. Or maybe February 2019 was as good as it will ever get for him.

Marquette's powers-that-be need to ask this question IMHO:

Can Wojo give us a long stretch of sustained success and lead us to the Final Four (and, preferably, multiple Final Fours) while also running a clean program?

If they determine the answer is no, he's gotta go. If they honestly believe that Final Fours are his "ceiling," then extend his contract so he doesn't go somewhere else to reach that ceiling.

6 1/2 years in, based on everything we've seen, I certainly wouldn't extend his contract if this season continues on its current trajectory.

If we don't make the tourney, or if we are a 10/11 seed with another first-round exit, and if we face an extend-or-move-on decision come March/April, I'd vote "move on."

[Goose]

Bad reporter

Brian Wardle is not the answer. That is taking a step backwards. You only hire him if you’re looking for clean program and have a guy stay for twenty years, regardless of on court success. He is not the guy to take the program to higher ground.

[Silent Verbal]

Bad reporter

Brian Wardle is not the answer. That is taking a step backwards. You only hire him if you’re looking for clean program and have a guy stay for twenty years, regardless of on court success. He is not the guy to take the program to higher ground.

If things bottom out and Marquette has to fire Wojo or risk losing the majority of the fanbase, and if the BOT and Lovell *are* as in love with Wojo and the way he runs the program as some say they are, Wardle might just be the guy they turn to.  It would be like firing Wojo and hiring another Wojo, which may be exactly what they want.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Bad reporter

Brian Wardle is not the answer. That is taking a step backwards. You only hire him if you’re looking for clean program and have a guy stay for twenty years, regardless of on court success. He is not the guy to take the program to higher ground.

Agree, Goose.
I’m starting  to think Wojo is the guy you describe as well. I never thought I would say that about him. I truly believed it eats at his soul to not Win consistently. I do know he’s right about our league being a “bear.” He doesn’t need me or anyone here telling him how to behave on the sideline or in huddles, or press conferences for that matter.

 Still I have to ask: Is it the fact we have a young team that explains his lack of passion Tues night on the sideline? Because that extended UConn run seemed to fester and fester with no visible sense of urgency to stop it from coach or team. Timeouts were called, but guys seemed to be going through the motions after them. Was it the pregame Perez Tweet? I hope the young man keeps his head up and just goes straight to the staff next time with his grievances. AL was a genius at letting people bitch in practice, right to his face. He knew during games, not just “war and major surgery”, how bad guys wanted to win, and how together they would play when it counted most.


I don’t think Coach is soft. I do think he has a bit of a staid, Research-Triangle way of handling things. Sometimes you just gotta light a frickin fire under guys. I truly feel if he would coach like the player he was, it would rub off on guys. He has to. Forget about pleasing your employer. Don’t walk on eggshells, always worrying about letting an F bomb drop here or there. This University lived through KO’s verbiage; you could never shock us. Coach like the coach you were meant to be. This is Milwaukee, not Raleigh-Durham. This is Marquette, not Duke. These are young men, not boys. They want to be coached, and coached hard. I’m still with this team and I’m still a believer in them and their Coach.

[NorthernDancerColt]

If things bottom out and Marquette has to fire Wojo or risk losing the majority of the fanbase, and if the BOT and Lovell *are* as in love with Wojo and the way he runs the program as some say they are, Wardle might just be the guy they turn to.  It would be like firing Wojo and hiring another Wojo, which may be exactly what they want.

I thought the same exact thing.

[MUDPT]

1. Deep Nov. Tournament runs - 0
2. 10 + Conference wins per season - 2 out of 6
3. Big East regular season Championships - 0
4. Big East Tournament Championships - 0
5. NCAA appearances - 2 out of 5 (I also don't think they would have made it last year, but wont include it)
6. NCAA tournament Wins - 0
7. Advancing to the second weekend of the tournament - 0
8. Consistently ranked in the top 25 - 1 of 6 seasons
9. Ensure the team plays their best basketball in Feb. & March - 0 out of 6

In addition:
1. Wojo team's never get "old" due to transfer
2. Lack of team identity year-over-year
3. Cant keep the locker room in check - leads to Hauser's transferring (Remember Markus even spent Thanksgivings with the Hauser Family at one point)
4. Lack of in-game adjustments

I’m meh on Wojo. Point 1: they won the Legends Classic in 2015, beating LSU and ASU. Also, they were in the championship in Orlando last season.

[Not A Serious Person]

I could make an argument to fire him, or I could make an argument to keep him. There are enough facts available for either side to make a strong case.

One argument I will not make, however is this one: Even if it is deemed that he sucks, Marquette shouldn't fire him unless we're sure that the next coach will be better.

That's silly. There never are assurances. For example, we didn't know Crean would be better than Deane. But Deane still had to go, and we had to trust that whomever we hired would do better.

Once you determine that your coach isn't good enough - a determination that often comes when you realize that either you have to extend his contract or move on - you make the break, you conduct as much due diligence as is humanly possible, and you hire the replacement.

I do agree with what you say about trying to determine if Wojo has reached his "ceiling," though again, that's just an opinion. There is no way to know. We could fire Wojo and he could click big-time at his next school. Or maybe February 2019 was as good as it will ever get for him.

Marquette's powers-that-be need to ask this question IMHO:

Can Wojo give us a long stretch of sustained success and lead us to the Final Four (and, preferably, multiple Final Fours) while also running a clean program?

If they determine the answer is no, he's gotta go. If they honestly believe that Final Fours are his "ceiling," then extend his contract so he doesn't go somewhere else to reach that ceiling.

6 1/2 years in, based on everything we've seen, I certainly wouldn't extend his contract if this season continues on its current trajectory.

If we don't make the tourney, or if we are a 10/11 seed with another first-round exit, and if we face an extend-or-move-on decision come March/April, I'd vote "move on."

I agree with this.

And, I was not suggesting you need a guarantee.  Rather I was trying to say is if you believe the program hit a ceiling you find unacceptable, then you are willing to fire him and take a chance on some to be named later (throw the dart at the coaches convention).

For those that want to fire him ... You think getting rid of Wojo, watching Garcia and Lewis transfer, Carton go to Europe, and finishing 9 to 11 in the BE for two years as everything bottoms out and then moves back up preferable to keeping Wojo? 

Are you at that point?  Because firing him and then having the repeat of Buzz's first three years is fantasy.  Buzz had all the stars align to have immediate success (and remember Crean left, he was not fired, so that matters). You cannot expect that to happen again.

[mu_hilltopper]

The concept that firing Wojo is program suicide is invalid.

Wojo is going to leave MU within 5 years, full stop, no question. 

If he continues in the same mediocre direction, it just can't continue forever.  A dozen years would be far too many, but somewhere in there, he'd be let go.

If somehow there's success in 5 years, a nice run one season .. boom, he is "hired away."

Somewhere in the next 5 years, he's gone, and "half the team" will leave and MUBB will be rebuilding.  Again.   

On the plus side, MU must know this math.

[wadesworld]

The concept that firing Wojo is program suicide is invalid.

Wojo is going to leave MU within 5 years, full stop, no question. 

If he continues in the same mediocre direction, it just can't continue forever.  A dozen years would be far too many, but somewhere in there, he'd be let go.

If somehow there's success in 5 years, a nice run one season .. boom, he is "hired away."

Somewhere in the next 5 years, he's gone, and "half the team" will leave and MUBB will be rebuilding.  Again.   

On the plus side, MU must know this math.

So that takes away basically the single reason to hire Brian Wardle.  If you just accept that if a coach has success here they'll bolt and you're fine with that and having to remake the roster every 5-10 years, then there is absolutely no reason to hire Brian Wardle.  The only reason to bring him in is if you find it necessary to NOT be going through a coaching change every 5-10 years.

Also, if Wojo was mediocre through 7 years and Marquette stuck with him through another 5 years, I'd have to imagine the decision to leave for a different job would at least be a difficult one for him.

[We R Final Four]

I’m not saying Wardle is the answer, but if I had two choices between him and wojo, it’s a no brainer.

Isn’t this just one choice between two coaches? Because if you had two choices, you wouldn’t have to make a choice at all.

[rgoode57]

We all point to recruiting as the one thing Wojo does well. But,  how long can he continue to have recruiting success with no on-the-court success?  Really good players don't get too excited about playing at mediocre programs. I also wonder if there is any method to Wojo's recruiting.  Yes, I'm sure he is looking for a certain type of player in certain years. But, is he looking for players that fit a system he wants to put in place or just getting the players he can get and then trying to figure out what to do with them?

[cheebs09]

So that takes away basically the single reason to hire Brian Wardle.  If you just accept that if a coach has success here they'll bolt and you're fine with that and having to remake the roster every 5-10 years, then there is absolutely no reason to hire Brian Wardle.  The only reason to bring him in is if you find it necessary to NOT be going through a coaching change every 5-10 years.

Also, if Wojo was mediocre through 7 years and Marquette stuck with him through another 5 years, I'd have to imagine the decision to leave for a different job would at least be a difficult one for him.

I’m not sure that’s the single reason to hire Wardle. I think people default to Wardle because he’s had success as a mid-major coach, we know who he is, and we know he’d say yes. Personally, I don’t know of many mid-major coaches unless they make a tourney run or have their team in the Top 25. I know brewcity77 and others have more knowledge.

Honestly, I feel Wardle has a stronger resume than Wojo did. Wojo had a lot of great experience with Duke and Team USA, but he was never the main guy. Wardle has shown how he can lead a program. Not all of it has been great to be honest.

I’d be happy if we got someone with a better resume than Wardle. I just am not knowledgeable enough on the options that would say yes. I think if Wardle could raise his recruiting to a high major level with MU’s resources, he’s proven to be a good enough coach to win against his level and build a program. I don’t think we’ve seen that from Wojo yet.

[Big Papi]

Bobbly Hurley is a highly thought of young coach.  He is in his 8th season with zero NCAA wins.

Would it be smart of AZ state to fire him?

2013–14   Buffalo   19–10   13–5   1st (East)   
2014–15   Buffalo   23–10   12–6   T–1st (East)   NCAA Division I Round of 64
Arizona State Sun Devils (Pac-12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16   Arizona State   15–17   5–13   11th   
2016–17   Arizona State   15–18   7–11   8th   
2017–18   Arizona State   20–12   8–10   T–8th   NCAA Division I First Four
2018–19   Arizona State   23–11   12–6   2nd   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2019–20   Arizona State   20–11   11–7   T–3rd   No postseason held

2020–21   Arizona State   3–1   1-0

I don't follow Hurley or ASU but it does look like he is improving that program consistently based on records.  Heck, based on my prior comment about not knowing anything other than his record, I would hire him in a second to replace Wojo today.  Wojo has hit his ceiling.

[willie warrior]

First, he is not.  Yes, it has been uneven.  But, as I noted above, I still don't think he has hit his ceiling.

Second, this is a lazy argument.

I'm open to firing any coach in any sport this season if you can make an argument for who should replace them and why that is an upgrade.

So you fire Wojo, and replace him with who?

1) Hotshot assistant.  Since they have no track record, that is guessing that he works out.  Besides, MU has done this many times with the hottest assistant names. See Hank, Majerus, O'Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo.

2) Proven mid-major coach?  So, you take Brian Wardle, or a Brian Wardle type, and hope they are not the next Bob Dukiet or Mike Deane.  Good luck

3) Take a big "name." St. Johns did this with Chris Mullins and Georgetown did with Patrick Ewing.  How's that working out.

4) A retread?  See My Ben Howland comments above.  So, you can Wojo and hire Steve Lavin, or a Steve Lavin type.  Feel better?

My point is you have to be absolutely sure Wojo is at his ceiling and that is not acceptable.  I do not think he is at his ceiling.

So firing him and means you are ready to throw a dart at the NCAA coaches convention and take whatever ass it hits.  Are you really ready for MU to do that?  Is that an upgrade?

Now  that, is a hugely wrong opinion.

[MUfan12]

Wardle is probably a stronger coach but I wouldn't trust his temperament for a second here. If he's gotten in hot water at UWGB, and been thin-skinned with the media at Bradley... I fear the pressure of being an alum and the expectations around the program would be too much.

[panda]

The concept that firing Wojo is program suicide is invalid.

Wojo is going to leave MU within 5 years, full stop, no question. 

If he continues in the same mediocre direction, it just can't continue forever.  A dozen years would be far too many, but somewhere in there, he'd be let go.

If somehow there's success in 5 years, a nice run one season .. boom, he is "hired away."

Somewhere in the next 5 years, he's gone, and "half the team" will leave and MUBB will be rebuilding.  Again.   

On the plus side, MU must know this math.

What separates Wardle from probably 98% of other candidates is that you would assume this is his final destination job. I think that’s important for a school like Mu.

Personally I really like him because he’s had success at two different head coaching stops. Proving you can win at different levels and cutting your chops running a program makes a huge difference when you step into a new role.

He’s certainly not the only candidate, but for me, he and TJO are 1 and 1A.

[mu_hilltopper]

Agreed, Wardle's draw is that he could be "loyal."   I don't think that exists any more.  If Wardle had decent success at MU, he would be offered better jobs.  Maybe he hesitates extra.  Yay.

I think the Wojo era has emphasized that if you're not Duke, Kansas, Kentucky etc, the coach you hire must be adept at making the team greater than the sum of its parts. 

If Wardle is that guy, great.

[5DollarPitcher]

Agreed, Wardle's draw is that he could be "loyal."   I don't think that exists any more.  If Wardle had decent success at MU, he would be offered better jobs.  Maybe he hesitates extra.  Yay.

I think the Wojo era has emphasized that if you're not Duke, Kansas, Kentucky etc, the coach you hire must be adept at making the team greater than the sum of its parts. 

If Wardle is that guy, great.

Forget about greater than the sum of their parts. Has Wojo ever made a team play to the sum of its parts?

How many really good players have left the program over his tenure only to play a lead role on a team ranked much better than ours? Wojo has had the pieces to create consistently Top 25 teams if they played to the sum of their parts.

I am probably in the minority here, but I think the talent on this year’s roster is actually really really good. Probably the second best roster Wojo has ever had behind the Howard/Hausers year. They just play so painfully disjointed and out of synch that it makes us, frankly, a bad basketball team. Nobody’s skills compliment those of the guy next to him, our offense is dominated by the 1 on 1 game, and we turn the ball over so prolifically that we haven’t even had a good look at a game where we can get into a set consistently.

Is that all coaching? Maybe or maybe not. But it’s not very fun to watch right now.