Moving your Wojo Needle

[jesmu84]

I agree there is plenty of blame to go around. Lemme take a stab-

Wojo: Refused to rein Markus in, didn't read the locker room, cussed out a 21 year old kid when told of the transfer.
Sam: Didn't like not being the guy, tolerated it until things took a nosedive.
Joey: Immature-ass kid who checked out.
Markus: Played the way his coaches let him play.
Stan: Probably perceived as favoring MH, but that's a new one for me.
Mom and Dad: Wouldn't shut up about the way SPASH played the entire time Sam was here, like the program was UCLA under Wooden.
Froling: Dumbass who almost got kicked off the team in February of that season. Poisoned the well with Joey.

How'd I do?

I'd like to hear more about the cussing and Froling

[MUfan12]

Harry acted like it was a temporary stop on the way to the pros. Didn't care much for school, didn't really want to be coached.

I don't know for certain if he influenced Joey while they lived together, but if one of TAMU's versions of events had him as part of the issue...

We do really need to let this thing go, though. They've been gone for almost two years. Markus is in Denver. And well, I think Wojo has learned from it. Now he's gotta figure out how to make it all work on the floor with this group.

[5DollarPitcher]

Harry Froling was the most ass-garbage player that ever came through Marquette under Wojo. Every second he was on the court was worse than the previous one.

[Silent Verbal]

Harry Froling was the most ass-garbage player that ever came through Marquette under Wojo. Every second he was on the court was worse than the previous one.

And to think some were saying he would save the season when he became eligible, would be the next Henry Ellenson, etc.  Just more slurpery in line with the Dexter mixtape from this past summer.  Harry was another transfer bust in a long line of them, hey?

[5DollarPitcher]

And to think some were saying he would save the season when he became eligible, would be the next Henry Ellenson, etc.  Just more slurpery in line with the Dexter mixtape from this past summer.  Harry was another transfer bust in a long line of them, hey?

It’s a theme - Wojo gets the most credit for players that haven’t even stepped on the court. All summer I was told only a moron would call for the firing of Wojo when you’ve got a guy like Dawson Garcia coming in.

Well, nothing against Dawson, but he’s just a decent frosh. Nothing more, nothing less. And certainly nothing worth handcuffing the University to an incapable dullard that rips the fanbase in the subtext of his postgame pressers to deflect from his own failures while simultaneously collecting our money by the bushel.

[Galway Eagle]

And to think some were saying he would save the season when he became eligible, would be the next Henry Ellenson, etc.  Just more slurpery in line with the Dexter mixtape from this past summer.  Harry was another transfer bust in a long line of them, hey?

+1 it's honestly astonishing how often the same people buy so deep into the  hype every year. Just ridiculous.

[Galway Eagle]

It’s a theme - Wojo gets the most credit for players that haven’t even stepped on the court. All summer I was told only a moron would call for the firing of Wojo when you’ve got a guy like Dawson Garcia coming in.

Well, nothing against Dawson, but he’s just a decent frosh. Nothing more, nothing less. And certainly nothing worth handcuffing the University to an incapable dullard that rips the fanbase in the subtext of his postgame pressers to deflect from his own failures while simultaneously collecting our money by the bushel.

This is just false Wojo gets the most credit for bringing in recruits better than Buzz or Crean (Henry, Dawson, Joey, Markus prior to reclassifying), bringing in the all time leading scorer and by far the best freshman we've had in my lifetime at least. And bringing in great transfers.

There's plenty of things to criticize Wojo for that are valid, like what he hasn't done with those recruits. But there is a slight uptick and compare Dawson Henry Lewis etc to literally anyone's freshman year under Crean and buzz except James' and I'd take Wojo's freshmen.

[MU82]

It’s a theme - Wojo gets the most credit for players that haven’t even stepped on the court. All summer I was told only a moron would call for the firing of Wojo when you’ve got a guy like Dawson Garcia coming in.

Well, nothing against Dawson, but he’s just a decent frosh. Nothing more, nothing less. And certainly nothing worth handcuffing the University to an incapable dullard that rips the fanbase in the subtext of his postgame pressers to deflect from his own failures while simultaneously collecting our money by the bushel.

If you decide the coach has to go, you fire him. There will be more recruits. So like you, I've never liked that reason that some have given for keeping him.

That being said, there wasn't a school out there that would have fired Wojo given the actual results on the court. You don't like that. We all get it. But it's a fact.

So all this angst is just angst. And that's cool. You like to blow off steam, and you blow a lot.

[wadesworld]

It’s a theme - Wojo gets the most credit for players that haven’t even stepped on the court. All summer I was told only a moron would call for the firing of Wojo when you’ve got a guy like Dawson Garcia coming in.

Well, nothing against Dawson, but he’s just a decent frosh. Nothing more, nothing less. And certainly nothing worth handcuffing the University to an incapable dullard that rips the fanbase in the subtext of his postgame pressers to deflect from his own failures while simultaneously collecting our money by the bushel.

13 points and 8 rebounds per game, shooting 40% from 3. Just a decent freshman.

But calling a 5th year senior who averaged 9 and 4 on bad shooting is spitting in the face of a guy who gave MU everything. Lol.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And to think some were saying he would save the season when he became eligible, would be the next Henry Ellenson, etc.  Just more slurpery in line with the Dexter mixtape from this past summer.  Harry was another transfer bust in a long line of them, hey?

I could be misremembering after years but I don't recall anyone saying that Froling would be the next Ellenson. I think there were comparisons to Ellenson's playstyle but I don't remember anyone saying that Froling would be as good as him. I think the "save the season" line was also something that people said sarcastically after he sucked, not something that was actually said before he started. I think what was actually said was that he may have been good enough to start given that the Milkman was our starting center at the time. Sadly, Froling failed to live up to even half of that low bar.

Dexter was rocked by COVID during the offseason. Maybe that's a line that I'm being fed or maybe that's why he hasn't been the factor some thought he would be. We'll find out next season.

[Lennys Tap]

That being said, there wasn't a school out there that would have fired Wojo given the actual results on the court. You don't like that. We all get it. But it's a fact.

Mike,

Am I misunderstanding or are you claiming “it’s a fact” that schools like Kentucky, Kansas, etc., wouldn’t fire a coach with Wojo’s record?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It’s a theme - Wojo gets the most credit for players that haven’t even stepped on the court. All summer I was told only a moron would call for the firing of Wojo when you’ve got a guy like Dawson Garcia coming in.

There may have been people who said that. If there were, they were wrong. You shouldn't keep a coach simply because he has a good recruiting class coming in.

What I remember people saying was idiotic was the idea that it was reasonable to expect Marquette to fire a guy coming off two consecutive scandal-free NCAAT appearances* given that only one other non-blue blood school in the past 20+ years had fired a guy like that....especially given that there was a financial crisis caused by a global pandemic.

*One appearance and was a lock for a second appearance according to over 100 bracketologists prior to the NCAAT getting cancelled due to COVID-19

Well, nothing against Dawson, but he’s just a decent frosh. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know you don't like quibbling over vocabulary...and neither do I...but "a decent frosh" doesn't seem like a fair descriptor for a guy averaging 13 points and 7.6 rebounds a game while shooting 51.3 eFG%. Who were your good MU frosh if Garcia is decent?

[MU82]

Mike,

Am I misunderstanding or are you claiming “it’s a fact” that schools like Kentucky, Kansas, etc., wouldn’t fire a coach with Wojo’s record?

OK ... it is my opinion that it is highly unlikely that the vast majority of institutions would have fired their coach after going to three NCAA tournaments in four years.

Thanks for holding my feet to the fire, Tony. I'll be sure to do the same for you!

[1SE]

There may have been people who said that. If there were, they were wrong. You shouldn't keep a coach simply because he has a good recruiting class coming in.

What I remember people saying was idiotic was the idea that it was reasonable to expect Marquette to fire a guy coming off two consecutive scandal-free NCAAT appearances* given that only one other non-blue blood school in the past 20+ years had fired a guy like that....especially given that there was a financial crisis caused by a global pandemic.

*One appearance and was a lock for a second appearance according to over 100 bracketologists prior to the NCAAT getting cancelled due to COVID-19

I know you don't like quibbling over vocabulary...and neither do I...but "a decent frosh" doesn't seem like a fair descriptor for a guy averaging 13 points and 7.6 rebounds a game while shooting 51.3 eFG%. Who were your good MU frosh if Garcia is decent?

Or to put it another way, a guy thats gone 2-10 over the final 6 games of two consecutive seasons. I bet a lot.of coaches with those kind of.finishes have been fired.

If we miss the NCAAT this year there is no question he SHOULD be gone. COVID may save his a$$, fine, but there then needs to be a hot seat with mega expectations for 2021-22.

[brewcity77]

And to think some were saying he would save the season when he became eligible, would be the next Henry Ellenson, etc.  Just more slurpery in line with the Dexter mixtape from this past summer.  Harry was another transfer bust in a long line of them, hey?

Actually...no. Prior to Harry, Wojo's transfer track record was excellent. Carlino was a stud. Rowsey didn't defend, but was an offensive dynamo. Reinhardt was a solid rotation player and really good sixth man. The only previous transfer that didn't work out was Gabe Levin, who at the time was averaging 18.5/7.3 for LBSU.

In addition, we could only go on what we were told, and it was people like Jay Bilas that were talking about what an impact player Froling would be. Regardless, at the time, there was reason to trust Wojo's transfers.

[MU82]

In The Athletic's college hoops mailbag, Dana O'Neil was asked which mid-major coaches would be getting recruited to big-boy schools. Her answer:

There are a bunch. Start out west with Russell Turner at UC Irvine. The Anteaters (also winning the mascot game) have won 52 games in the last two seasons and are atop the Big West standings again.

I mentioned John Becker at Vermont as a potential candidate at Penn State, and that’s largely based on a remarkable run at Vermont. He has won at least 20 games in every year since joining the Catamounts in 2011.

Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa has proven to be more than just an Ali Farokhmanesh 3-pointer, and in the same league, Drake is going to have to work to hang on to Darian DeVries, who has two 20 win seasons and now a 13-0 start.

Just like the Valley, the SoCon is loaded with great coaches: Wes Miller at UNCG, Bob Richey at Furman and Duggar Baucom at The Citadel.

She also was asked about coaches on the hot seat, but the question specifically asked about P5 coaches. So if she thinks Wojo is on the hot seat she wouldn't have included the Big East anyway.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And to think some were saying he would save the season when he became eligible, would be the next Henry Ellenson, etc.  Just more slurpery in line with the Dexter mixtape from this past summer.  Harry was another transfer bust in a long line of them, hey?

Oh come on. That is hardly unique to Wojo or Marquette.

[wadesworld]

In The Athletic's college hoops mailbag, Dana O'Neil was asked which mid-major coaches would be getting recruited to big-boy schools. Her answer:

There are a bunch. Start out west with Russell Turner at UC Irvine. The Anteaters (also winning the mascot game) have won 52 games in the last two seasons and are atop the Big West standings again.

I mentioned John Becker at Vermont as a potential candidate at Penn State, and that’s largely based on a remarkable run at Vermont. He has won at least 20 games in every year since joining the Catamounts in 2011.

Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa has proven to be more than just an Ali Farokhmanesh 3-pointer, and in the same league, Drake is going to have to work to hang on to Darian DeVries, who has two 20 win seasons and now a 13-0 start.

Just like the Valley, the SoCon is loaded with great coaches: Wes Miller at UNCG, Bob Richey at Furman and Duggar Baucom at The Citadel.

She also was asked about coaches on the hot seat, but the question specifically asked about P5 coaches. So if she thinks Wojo is on the hot seat she wouldn't have included the Big East anyway.

So she gave 7 names and one is not Brian Wardle.  Again, if he had gone to Xavier, or anywhere not named Marquette, nobody on MUScoop would ever have mentioned his name.  To me, where the candidate went to school should not matter unless in an absolute deadlock tie between two candidates.

[Galway Eagle]

So she gave 7 names and one is not Brian Wardle.  Again, if he had gone to Xavier, or anywhere not named Marquette, nobody on MUScoop would ever have mentioned his name.  To me, where the candidate went to school should not matter unless in an absolute deadlock tie between two candidates.

Unless they went to Notre Dame or Madison. That sh*t matters

[wadesworld]

Unless they went to Notre Dame or Madison. That sh*t matters

I stand corrected.

[Lennys Tap]

In addition, we could only go on what we were told, and it was people like Jay Bilas that were talking about what an impact player Froling would be. Regardless, at the time, there was reason to trust Wojo's transfers.

Brew

Who do you think was the source of Bilas’s glowing reports on Froling? 100% the info was coming directly from Wojo.

[The Big East]

Actually...no. Prior to Harry, Wojo's transfer track record was excellent. Carlino was a stud. Rowsey didn't defend, but was an offensive dynamo. Reinhardt was a solid rotation player and really good sixth man. The only previous transfer that didn't work out was Gabe Levin, who at the time was averaging 18.5/7.3 for LBSU.

In addition, we could only go on what we were told, and it was people like Jay Bilas that were talking about what an impact player Froling would be. Regardless, at the time, there was reason to trust Wojo's transfers.

I wonder how things would have worked out if Levin stayed. He did very well at Long Beach State as you pointed out.

[Galway Eagle]

I wonder how things would have worked out if Levin stayed. He did very well at Long Beach State as you pointed out.

He would've been an All big East player and we would've opened up the greatest HS pipeline ever.

Kidding of course, he probably would've been decent but nowhere near as dominant as he was in the mid majors. I'd wager he would've been less or equal to Katin the next year, really helpful on the 18 team when we had no actual PF. But that's it.

[brewcity77]

Brew

Who do you think was the source of Bilas’s glowing reports on Froling? 100% the info was coming directly from Wojo.

Sure, but that doesn't change the track record of success with transfers to that point nor the apparent belief from the staff that Froling had potential, even if Bilas was the mouthpiece they used to convey that information.

I really don't care about the Froling thing. He was worth taking a flier on, didn't work out, move on. But if people believed Froling could come in and really help that 2018 team, there were proven reasons as to why those beliefs would have been justified. Including that Wojo had previous success immediately incorporating a mid-season transfer big in Luke Fischer.

[onepost]

I don't know what bullish posts you are seeing but the reason some people aren't as down as you are is because they don't know what you think you know. You've told this vague story about Wojo being a child for years but not every actually happened or who your source is. Which is fine,  you don't owe us anything.

Personally,  I don't buy your version. I've heard dozens of interpretations of Hausergate, included some from people "who would know" and they combine to cast blame on Wojo, Sam,  Joey,  Markus, Stan,  Mr. Hauser, and Mrs. Hauser, hell Froling made a cameo in one. Some make it 100% on Wojo, others make it 0% on Wojo. I find both extremes unbelievable. The truth as it usually is,  is likely somewhere in the middle. There's plenty of blame to go around and the most should go to Wojo as head coach. But the version that makes the most sense to me doesn't involve Wojo acting like a child. It does involve a Hauser acting like a college student and Wojo repeatedly failing to solve a growing problem.

In the end,  you're going to believe who you're going to believe. But my guess if you were being honest,  you would acknowledge that your source was likely biased and gave you a version with elements of truth and elements of spin. Which is fine,  all sources have bias,  we're just need to account for it

"Vague story".  No, I wasn't going to publicly air out sources on this message board, but I've sent out the story to dozens who PM'd for it.  The person who told me this is someone who worked for Wojo for four years and if he had any bias, it would be in favor of Wojo.

You don't want to believe it, that's fine.  It was a massive drop in a bucket that's been overflowing for Wojo.  Time to move on.