Moving your Wojo Needle

[Silent Verbal]

I don't recall Wojo losing any other players to transfer that year so how is that "losing control of the locker room"? He lost control of 2 players who had their own agendas.

It was widely speculated on here that had the Hausers not transferred, at least 2 or 3 others would have, the most likely candidates being Anim, Cain, and Bailey.  They might've left anyway, but it was said that Stan convinced them to come back.  I have no inside info and am not sure if all that went down, but it was the scuttlebutt on Scoop.

Koby was also visibly unhappy while playing next to Markus last season, so Joey's bad body language was not an isolated incident.  Team chemistry has been a problem under Wojo.

[cheebs09]

Oh good.  We're back to rehashing this.  Some of you need to learn to move on...

You must be new here.

[Silent Verbal]

Oh good.  We're back to rehashing this.  Some of you need to learn to move on...

Until Wojo proves that he can consistently compete for Big East championships and win games in the postseason, some will continue to bash him for his failings as a coach, and rightfully so.

[Galway Eagle]

Until Wojo proves that he can consistently compete for Big East championships and win games in the postseason, some will continue to bash him for his failings as a coach, and rightfully so. with weird obsession on the same topics for years

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My understanding is that frustrations grew when Markus was allowed to go home over the summer while the rest of the team was on campus for team workouts.

The reason for him going home was never clearly communicated from the top and several guys, rightly or wrongly, saw that as preferential treatment and ignoring the team concept.

Letting him go home was the right thing to do. Also not communicating why was the right thing to do. Frankly, it was no one else's business but it is understandable why other players would question it. It's a good reminder to not assume the worst in a situation. When someone else gets something that you don't, it's not necessarily because they are getting special treatment, it's because their needs are different than yours.

To be clear Panda, I'm not attacking your post, I'm agreeing that it was a factor and lamenting the fact that it was.

[panda]

Letting him go home was the right thing to do. Also not communicating why was the right thing to do. Frankly, it was no one else's business but it is understandable why other players would question it. It's a good reminder to not assume the worst in a situation. When someone else gets something that you don't, it's not necessarily because they are getting special treatment, it's because their needs are different than yours.

To be clear Panda, I'm not attacking your post, I'm agreeing that it was a factor and lamenting the fact that it was.

No hard feelings tamu. It was a warranted special circumstance that, in my opinion, required some better messaging from the top.

Much like some posters pointing to the Buffalo game like it was the exact point of the downward spiral, this instance was not remotely close to the breaking point.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It was widely speculated on here that had the Hausers not transferred, at least 2 or 3 others would have, the most likely candidates being Anim, Cain, and Bailey.  They might've left anyway, but it was said that Stan convinced them to come back.  I have no inside info and am not sure if all that went down, but it was the scuttlebutt on Scoop.

Koby was also visibly unhappy while playing next to Markus last season, so Joey's bad body language was not an isolated incident.  Team chemistry has been a problem under Wojo.

Scuttlebutt on Scoop is another term for cow caca aina?

I'm not sure that team chemistry is the right phrase.  By all accounts, the team is very close, is consistently described as a family, seems to respect and get along with Wojo and the other coaches. The family environment of the team is consistently mentioned by recruits, enough that's it not a cliche but something that's viewed as a positive of the program.

I think Markus was a hard player to play with. He defies  team oriented basketball because a bad shot from Howard was better than a good shot from most of his teammates. No matter how much a player may give lip service to wanting the team to do well, all players want minutes, shots, and opportunities. Howard sucked up a lot of shots and opportunities from other players and I have to imagine that would be frustrating to teammates.

[Silent Verbal]

Letting him go home was the right thing to do. Also not communicating why was the right thing to do. Frankly, it was no one else's business but it is understandable why other players would question it. It's a good reminder to not assume the worst in a situation. When someone else gets something that you don't, it's not necessarily because they are getting special treatment, it's because their needs are different than yours.

To be clear Panda, I'm not attacking your post, I'm agreeing that it was a factor and lamenting the fact that it was.

The question is, would other players have been allowed to go home like Markus did without repercussions in regards to their playing time and role on the team?  Would other players have been allowed to go home like Markus did, period? 

[panda]

The question is, would other players have been allowed to go home like Markus did without repercussions in regards to their playing time and role on the team?  Would other players have been allowed to go home like Markus did, period?

I have no problem with him going home and frankly it was the right move given the circumstances.

I take issue with the lack of messaging from the top as to why he could go home while everyone else needed to stay on campus.

[The Sultan]

I have no problem with him going home and frankly it was the right move given the circumstances.

I take issue with the lack of messaging from the top as to why he could go home while everyone else needed to stay on campus.

Well if it were related to a mental health issue, Wojo shouldn't be disclosing the reason.  The team doesn't have a right to know.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The question is, would other players have been allowed to go home like Markus did without repercussions in regards to their playing time and role on the team?  Would other players have been allowed to go home like Markus did, period?

If they had the same circumstances as Markus? Absolutely.

[5DollarPitcher]

Maybe the reason we talk about the Wojo issue so much is there's nothing of substance to talk about on the basketball court anymore?

[onepost]

Oh good.  We're back to rehashing this.  Some of you need to learn to move on...

I'll take the blame for re-litigating the Sam/Joey saga, since I mentioned it in my first post on this thread.  But when the topic is Wojo's standing as our coach, are you in or out, that is 1000% relevant.

When I was informed by those who would know what went down in the days leading up to (check the receipts, I found out Masters Sunday they were gone and was the first to post here soon after)/following their transfers, I was out on Wojo.  He was a child.  His collapses that season, last season, and our current freefall only strengthen that belief.

If a pillar of coaching is building relationships and maintaining a positive culture where everyone is buying in, Wojo has failed.  The same issues continually pop up with his teams.  Then you take into account his comically lousy in-game coaching and I'm left wondering how people on this board are still bullish on him.

[onepost]

Maybe the reason we talk about the Wojo issue so much is there's nothing of substance to talk about on the basketball court anymore?

^^^^^

[wadesworld]

I'll take the blame for re-litigating the Sam/Joey saga, since I mentioned it in my first post on this thread.  But when the topic is Wojo's standing as our coach, are you in or out, that is 1000% relevant.

When I was informed by those who would know what went down in the days leading up to (check the receipts, I found out Masters Sunday they were gone and was the first to post here soon after)/following their transfers, I was out on Wojo.  He was a child.  His collapses that season, last season, and our current freefall only strengthen that belief.

If a pillar of coaching is building relationships and maintaining a positive culture where everyone is buying in, Wojo has failed.  The same issues continually pop up with his teams.  Then you take into account his comically lousy in-game coaching and I'm left wondering how people on this board are still bullish on him.

Every coach in America has transfers just about every year.  So if that isn't getting everyone to buy in, then no coach in America is succeeding at one of the pillars of coaching.

[panda]

Well if it were related to a mental health issue, Wojo shouldn't be disclosing the reason.  The team doesn't have a right to know.

It was presented as, Markus is going home to work out with his family. I don't think anyone on the team was aware of anything else beyond that and the coaching staff didn't address anything further.

[The Sultan]

It was presented as, Markus is going home to work out with his family. I don't think anyone on the team was aware of anything else beyond that and the coaching staff didn't address anything further.

Ok. Again they don't have a right to know more. Did anyone ask him directly?

[Silent Verbal]

Every coach in America has transfers just about every year.  So if that isn't getting everyone to buy in, then no coach in America is succeeding at one of the pillars of coaching.

Every coach has transfers.  Not every coach loses two starters from a projected top 10 team.

[panda]

Ok. Again they don't have a right to know more. Did anyone ask him directly?

I'm just telling you what I know. Feel free to pm if you'd like to discuss further.

[rocky_warrior]

Until Wojo proves that he can consistently compete for Big East championships and win games in the postseason, some will continue to bash him for his failings as a coach, and rightfully so.

Maybe the reason we talk about the Wojo issue so much is there's nothing of substance to talk about on the basketball court anymore?

The re-hashing I'm referring to is the Hauser letter.  Too bad we never allowed discussion on this topic before 

I'll take the blame for re-litigating the Sam/Joey saga, since I mentioned it in my first post on this thread.  But when the topic is Wojo's standing as our coach, are you in or out, that is 1000% relevant.

It is your fault!   I've mentioned several times that I really don't feel the need to talk about wojos job status anymore.  It's been flogged to death.  There's not a single *new* argument anyone is making.

Now - sometimes people confuse my opinion as some sort of mandate because I have the fancy word "moderator" around my profile.  This is really just my opinion that I'm tired of the topics.   I've not banned or even PM'd anyone here for being a someone who doesn't like wojo (unless I think it's purely a troll account) - I just generally stay out of the discussions. 

And yes, I realize that if people  want to get it off their chest (again, and again, and again) that's essentially why we're here for.  And there hasn't been a lot of MU hoops played the past couple weeks, so we've had more of these discussions. 

So that's all to say, Go Marquette.  Tomorrow night can't come soon enough for me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'll take the blame for re-litigating the Sam/Joey saga, since I mentioned it in my first post on this thread.  But when the topic is Wojo's standing as our coach, are you in or out, that is 1000% relevant.

When I was informed by those who would know what went down in the days leading up to (check the receipts, I found out Masters Sunday they were gone and was the first to post here soon after)/following their transfers, I was out on Wojo.  He was a child.  His collapses that season, last season, and our current freefall only strengthen that belief.

If a pillar of coaching is building relationships and maintaining a positive culture where everyone is buying in, Wojo has failed.  The same issues continually pop up with his teams.  Then you take into account his comically lousy in-game coaching and I'm left wondering how people on this board are still bullish on him.

I don't know what bullish posts you are seeing but the reason some people aren't as down as you are is because they don't know what you think you know. You've told this vague story about Wojo being a child for years but not every actually happened or who your source is. Which is fine,  you don't owe us anything.

Personally,  I don't buy your version. I've heard dozens of interpretations of Hausergate, included some from people "who would know" and they combine to cast blame on Wojo, Sam,  Joey,  Markus, Stan,  Mr. Hauser, and Mrs. Hauser, hell Froling made a cameo in one. Some make it 100% on Wojo, others make it 0% on Wojo. I find both extremes unbelievable. The truth as it usually is,  is likely somewhere in the middle. There's plenty of blame to go around and the most should go to Wojo as head coach. But the version that makes the most sense to me doesn't involve Wojo acting like a child. It does involve a Hauser acting like a college student and Wojo repeatedly failing to solve a growing problem.

In the end,  you're going to believe who you're going to believe. But my guess if you were being honest,  you would acknowledge that your source was likely biased and gave you a version with elements of truth and elements of spin. Which is fine,  all sources have bias,  we're just need to account for it

[MUfan12]

I've heard dozens of interpretations of Hausergate, included some from people "who would know" and they combine to cast blame on Wojo, Sam,  Joey,  Markus, Stan,  Mr. Hauser, and Mrs. Hauser, hell Froling made a cameo in one.

I agree there is plenty of blame to go around. Lemme take a stab-

Wojo: Refused to rein Markus in, didn't read the locker room, cussed out a 21 year old kid when told of the transfer.
Sam: Didn't like not being the guy, tolerated it until things took a nosedive.
Joey: Immature-ass kid who checked out.
Markus: Played the way his coaches let him play.
Stan: Probably perceived as favoring MH, but that's a new one for me.
Mom and Dad: Wouldn't shut up about the way SPASH played the entire time Sam was here, like the program was UCLA under Wooden.
Froling: Dumbass who almost got kicked off the team in February of that season. Poisoned the well with Joey.

How'd I do?

[Galway Eagle]

I agree there is plenty of blame to go around. Lemme take a stab-

Wojo: Refused to rein Markus in, didn't read the locker room, cussed out a 21 year old kid when told of the transfer.
Sam: Didn't like not being the guy, tolerated it until things took a nosedive.
Joey: Immature-ass kid who checked out.
Markus: Played the way his coaches let him play.
Stan: Probably perceived as favoring MH, but that's a new one for me.
Mom and Dad: Wouldn't shut up about the way SPASH played the entire time Sam was here, like the program was UCLA under Wooden.
Froling: Dumbass who almost got kicked off the team in February of that season. Poisoned the well with Joey.

How'd I do?

I forgot about Harry.

[MU82]

I agree there is plenty of blame to go around. Lemme take a stab-

Wojo: Refused to rein Markus in, didn't read the locker room, cussed out a 21 year old kid when told of the transfer.
Sam: Didn't like not being the guy, tolerated it until things took a nosedive.
Joey: Immature-ass kid who checked out.
Markus: Played the way his coaches let him play.
Stan: Probably perceived as favoring MH, but that's a new one for me.
Mom and Dad: Wouldn't shut up about the way SPASH played the entire time Sam was here, like the program was UCLA under Wooden.
Froling: Dumbass who almost got kicked off the team in February of that season. Poisoned the well with Joey.

How'd I do?

Seems quite plausible to me. Markus-haters would say you forgot to mention him berating Joey, which pissed off the little boy.

Unfortunately, Joey did worse than just "check out." He killed us down the stretch. There was one game (Creighton, I want to say) he gave the ball away so easily and so often that I joked at the time the fix musta been in.

[brewcity77]

Froling: Dumbass who almost got kicked off the team in February of that season. Poisoned the well with Joey.

I'd love to know the truth as to what, if any impact this had. I was reading back over old articles about Joey enrolling and immediately thought "well THAT'S interesting" when I saw that Froling was Joey's roommate his first year.