NBA Thread 2020-21

[JWags85]

Jae "resorts" to what the rules allow and to how the refs call it.

He's a winner, he's not dirty, he doesn't cheat, he plays hard, his teammates and coaches love him.

Well said.

Isn't flopping cheating?

No. Kicking your leg out on a jumper to draw contact is, that's why it's now an offensive foul.

Flopping or embellishing contact is no different than almost every guard throwing their head back when they get bumped to draw ref attention.  It's the way the NBA has decided to officiate games.

Youd swear he was Brad Davidson punching groins or jumping out in front of drivers to draw weak charges the way people are talking about him.  Every single Bucks fan here would be THRILLED if he was getting the minutes for them instead of Tucker or Patty C.  Talking like he's some journeyman bum who resorts to cheap antics cause he's lacking in ability when I'm reality he signed a $10MM a year for a contender.

[wadesworld]

He's not even a top 2 flopper in his own team's starting lineup. Or whiner.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Isn't flopping cheating?

Is intentionally fouling someone to keep them from getting an easy layup cheating? Or is it part of the game?

[roadwarrior3]

Fraudulent? LMAO. He still plays tough, doesn't back down, does anything to help his team win.  If the refs stopped calling the flops, he wouldn't do it anymore.  Imagine calling an undersized forward who has clawed out a starting spot on 2 different finals teams "fraudulent" cause of some twisted sense of what tough supposedly is to you. I'd love you to tell Jae he's fraudulent to his face or that you think he's soft cause he sells some fouls like 90% of the league.

Easy there buddy, if you take a second to read the post before immediately becoming a keyboard warrior you would see that I clearly state the guy will do whatever it takes for his team to win. I think I'm criticizing the way the NBA is officiated more than the player and am stating that I dislike seeing the flopping from a guy like him with his background, which again I mentioned already, but you probably didn't see with your fingers moving so fast as soon as you saw the word fraudulent.

[The Sultan]

Easy there buddy, if you take a second to read the post before immediately becoming a keyboard warrior you would see that I clearly state the guy will do whatever it takes for his team to win. I think I'm criticizing the way the NBA is officiated more than the player and am stating that I dislike seeing the flopping from a guy like him with his background, which again I mentioned already, but you probably didn't see with your fingers moving so fast as soon as you saw the word fraudulent.

  You called him a "punk." 

[The Sultan]

Crowder is a very good, if limited, player. Hard nosed, more than capable of holding his own in most match ups.

That's what last night was so irritating as a Bucks fan and a Jae fan. There are a lot of match ups that are not good for him in this series. That he's resorting to these antics is him telling on himself.

Jae's "antics" only annoy you because you're rooting for the other team.

[JWags85]

Easy there buddy, if you take a second to read the post before immediately becoming a keyboard warrior you would see that I clearly state the guy will do whatever it takes for his team to win. I think I'm criticizing the way the NBA is officiated more than the player and am stating that I dislike seeing the flopping from a guy like him with his background, which again I mentioned already, but you probably didn't see with your fingers moving so fast as soon as you saw the word fraudulent.

As FBM said, you already said you viewed him as a "punk".  And if you were sincere about his background and grinding himself up from the end of the bench being admirable or whatnot, then doing whatever it takes to make his mark or help his team win, with how the game is being played or called, should be respected and not viewed as some black mark.  He's hardly the only player that does it and thinking he should "be above it" because of some point of pride in your opinion is beyond silly.  I'm sure it would be better if he was playing in Asia and no longer in the league cause he stuck to his gritty tough roots and didn't conform.

And its cute to call me a keyboard warrior cause I don't agree with your nonsense.  This is just like the people who complain about Jimmy Butler and say he's not humble anymore cause he's not the same 20 year old underdog kid at Marquette.

[MU82]

As FBM said, you already said you viewed him as a "punk".  And if you were sincere about his background and grinding himself up from the end of the bench being admirable or whatnot, then doing whatever it takes to make his mark or help his team win, with how the game is being played or called, should be respected and not viewed as some black mark.  He's hardly the only player that does it and thinking he should "be above it" because of some point of pride in your opinion is beyond silly.  I'm sure it would be better if he was playing in Asia and no longer in the league cause he stuck to his gritty tough roots and didn't conform.

And its cute to call me a keyboard warrior cause I don't agree with your nonsense.  This is just like the people who complain about Jimmy Butler and say he's not humble anymore cause he's not the same 20 year old underdog kid at Marquette.

Jimmy's become such a punk!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And its cute to call me a keyboard warrior cause I don't agree with your nonsense.  This is just like the people who complain about Jimmy Butler and say he's not humble anymore cause he's not the same 20 year old underdog kid at Marquette.

I don't care about JFB being humble or not. I admit that I haven't been a fan of him as a pro. He's been better the past few years but the tripping instances with Plumlee and Crowder bother me.

Crowder is f*cking awesome

[roadwarrior3]

As FBM said, you already said you viewed him as a "punk".  And if you were sincere about his background and grinding himself up from the end of the bench being admirable or whatnot, then doing whatever it takes to make his mark or help his team win, with how the game is being played or called, should be respected and not viewed as some black mark.  He's hardly the only player that does it and thinking he should "be above it" because of some point of pride in your opinion is beyond silly.  I'm sure it would be better if he was playing in Asia and no longer in the league cause he stuck to his gritty tough roots and didn't conform.

And its cute to call me a keyboard warrior cause I don't agree with your nonsense.  This is just like the people who complain about Jimmy Butler and say he's not humble anymore cause he's not the same 20 year old underdog kid at Marquette.

Take off the blue and gold glasses man. Just because a guy played for Marquette doesn't mean you have to love them the rest of their career. I respect what he did at Marquette and how he has worked to get to this stage, and I also dislike the way he now plays.

[The Sultan]

Take off the blue and gold glasses man. Just because a guy played for Marquette doesn't mean you have to love them the rest of their career. I respect what he did at Marquette and how he has worked to get to this stage, and I also dislike the way he now plays.

I would love to have Jae on the Bucks - "antics" and all. 

I mean, PJ Tucker apparently has never committed a foul in his life based on his reaction every time he is called for one.  (Only to have replay show it was clearly a foul.)

[JWags85]

Take off the blue and gold glasses man. Just because a guy played for Marquette doesn't mean you have to love them the rest of their career. I respect what he did at Marquette and how he has worked to get to this stage, and I also dislike the way he now plays.

Thats fine, but I would wager its largely because he's facing off against a team you like more.  It has nothing to do with blue and gold glasses for me.  I just have no issue with how he plays.  I also don't have an issue with Booker while people are complaining that he's soft and begging for fouls/flopping.  And I'm a rabid Bucks fan.

Also, disliking how he plays is very different than calling him a punk or that his play is "fraudulent", FWIW.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I would love to have Jae on the Bucks - "antics" and all. 

I mean, PJ Tucker apparently has never committed a foul in his life based on his reaction every time he is called for one.  (Only to have replay show it was clearly a foul.)

Seriously, what a meatball Bucks homer take on Jae. Truly bizarre

[roadwarrior3]

Seriously, what a meatball Bucks homer take on Jae. Truly bizarre

The real meatball takes are responses saying "I would love for you to tell Jae to his face."

I acknowledged multiple times plenty of players do it. I also never defended, or even brought up PJ Tucker, my comments were solely focused on Jae considering this is a Marquette board. Figured it wouldn't be a popular take but still underestimated how many here Marquette has on their knees.

[The Sultan]

The real meatball takes are responses saying "I would love for you to tell Jae to his face."

I acknowledged multiple times plenty of players do it. I also never defended, or even brought up PJ Tucker, my comments were solely focused on Jae considering this is a Marquette board. Figured it wouldn't be a popular take but still underestimated how many here Marquette has on their knees.

Uh...no.

Our point is that Jae is doing it because it works.  And we aren't being critical of him, not because he is a Marquette alum, but because that's just how it is in the NBA. 

But go ahead....keep calling him a "punk" when players on your team do the same thing.

[5DollarPitcher]

Flopping IS, in fact, cheating.  Unfortunate some are not up-to-date on official NBA rules.  An excerpt from the NBA's website:

In an effort to curb the unsportsmanlike practice known as "flopping," the NBA implemented an anti-flopping rule starting in the 2012-13 season.

A "flop" is an attempt to either fool referees into calling undeserved fouls or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call by exaggerating the effect of contact with an opposing player.

...

I've made the executive decision on behalf of all MU fans.  We no longer claim Jae Crowder as a Warrior.  His antics and anti-basketball activity during this series have defiled his badge.  You're welcome.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Flopping IS, in fact, cheating.  Unfortunate some are not up-to-date on official NBA rules.  An excerpt from the NBA's website:

In an effort to curb the unsportsmanlike practice known as "flopping," the NBA implemented an anti-flopping rule starting in the 2012-13 season.

A "flop" is an attempt to either fool referees into calling undeserved fouls or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call by exaggerating the effect of contact with an opposing player.

Is intentionally fouling to stop the clock or to prevent an easy layup cheating? Or is it just part of the game? Because if committing a rule violation is cheating, than every team cheats 50+ times a game.

[5DollarPitcher]

Is intentionally fouling to stop the clock or to prevent an easy layup cheating? Or is it just part of the game? Because if committing a rule violation is cheating, than every team cheats 50+ times a game.

Committing an uncalled rule violation which directly helps you win is cheating.  Which I suppose purports a level of responsibility on the referees to manage it.  Worse yet is when it's a player's entire MO.  Crowder, Harden, Booker, CP3, even Tucker.  These players are foul merchants that seek to bend the rules to their advantage any way possible.

If someone shoots a free throw from 10 feet instead of 15 feet and the referees don't call it, I'd say that person cheated...

[The Sultan]

Committing an uncalled rule violation is cheating.  Which I suppose purports a level of responsibility on the referees to manage it.

If someone shoots a free throw from 10 feet instead of 15 feet and the referees don't call it, I'd say that person cheated...

Benefitting from rules violations that aren't called isn't cheating.

[5DollarPitcher]

Benefitting from rules violations that aren't called isn't cheating.

I think intent comes into play.  Crowder intends to fool the referees into not calling him on his BS.  And he succeeds.  That's cheating.  His entire intent is to break the rules without being called.

Fouling someone on a layup and the referees missing the call isn't exactly in the same arena as Crowder's tactics.

[lawdog77]

Committing an uncalled rule violation which directly helps you win is cheating.  Which I suppose purports a level of responsibility on the referees to manage it.  Worse yet is when it's a player's entire MO.  Crowder, Harden, Booker, CP3, even Tucker.  These players are foul merchants that seek to bend the rules to their advantage any way possible.

If someone shoots a free throw from 10 feet instead of 15 feet and the referees don't call it, I'd say that person cheated...

Worst scoop take ever (and that includes the politics stuff). An uncalled travel is cheating? Giannis still having a foot inbounds when inbounding the ball is cheating? 3 second violation is cheating?

[5DollarPitcher]

Worst scoop take ever (and that includes the politics stuff). An uncalled travel is cheating? Giannis still having a foot inbounds when inbounding the ball is cheating? 3 second violation is cheating?

I'd say you have to add two caveats and I still stand by that:

1. The player PURPOSELY and KNOWLINGLY broke the rules
2. It was the players sole intent to fool the referees into making a poor call / non-call

If those 2 caveats hold true and the rule violation is uncalled, I would 100% call that cheating.  And that's what Crowder tries to do.

[The Sultan]

I'd say you have to add two caveats and I still stand by that:

1. The player PURPOSELY and KNOWLINGLY broke the rules
2. It was the players sole intent to fool the referees into making a poor call / non-call

If those 2 caveats hold true and the rule violation is uncalled, I would 100% call that cheating.  And that's what Crowder tries to do.

I think that is ridiculous. 

<checks user> 

Ahhhhhh.....

[JWags85]

James Harden, NBA MVP and multiple time league scoring leader who has also averaged double digit assists per game multiple seasons and has averaged 31/7/9 the last 5 years...entire MO is cheating and begging the refs to call it.  Just a foul merchant.

Chris Paul...probably the best pure PG of the last decade, consensus first ballot HOF...just a foul merchant rule bender, nothing more, just his MO.

Devin Booker, averaged over 25 pts a game the last 3 years, takes 20+ shots a game, yet has never averaged more than 7.3 FTs per game in his career...simply a foul merchant who couldn't score otherwise.

Shameless cheaters, the lot of them, not a decent player in the mix

[5DollarPitcher]

James Harden, NBA MVP and multiple time league scoring leader who has also averaged double digit assists per game multiple seasons and has averaged 31/7/9 the last 5 years...entire MO is cheating and begging the refs to call it.  Just a foul merchant.

Chris Paul...probably the best pure PG of the last decade, consensus first ballot HOF...just a foul merchant rule bender, nothing more, just his MO.

Devin Booker, averaged over 25 pts a game the last 3 years, takes 20+ shots a game, yet has never averaged more than 7.3 FTs per game in his career...simply a foul merchant who couldn't score otherwise.

Shameless cheaters, the lot of them, not a decent player in the mix

Correct