NBA Thread 2020-21

[MuggsyB]

Is it automatic we slot Lebron ahead of Jabbar or Chamberlain?   And what should be the penalty for fake reading?  He was clearly exposed and looked like a buffoon.  No one is denying his basketball greatness but facts are facts.  I mean the guy looked like he was hit by a semi going 100 mph yesterday.  How should the general public respond to his deceit and overall nonsense?

[The Sultan]

Is it automatic we slot Lebron ahead of Jabbar or Chamberlain?   And what should be the penalty for fake reading?  He was clearly exposed and looked like a buffoon.  No one is denying his basketball greatness but facts are facts.  I mean the guy looked like he was hit by a semi going 100 mph yesterday.  How should the general public respond to his deceit and overall nonsense?

I think they should get outraged and ask numerous leading questions on a message board.

And Lebron is top 5 all time IMO, in a sport that is tough to judge across eras. 

[JWags85]

Is it automatic we slot Lebron ahead of Jabbar or Chamberlain?   And what should be the penalty for fake reading?  He was clearly exposed and looked like a buffoon.  No one is denying his basketball greatness but facts are facts.  I mean the guy looked like he was hit by a semi going 100 mph yesterday.  How should the general public respond to his deceit and overall nonsense?

I hope this is satire.  I've made my feelings on LBJ well known but none of this has anything to do with how he stacks up as a player historically. In 25 years, my kids won't know all of the silly crap he did.  Reggie Miller was a notorious and flagrant flopper and that's not a key tenant of his legacy

[MuggsyB]

I hope this is satire.  I've made my feelings on LBJ well known but none of this has anything to do with how he stacks up as a player historically. In 25 years, my kids won't know all of the silly crap he did.  Reggie Miller was a notorious and flagrant flopper and that's not a key tenant of his legacy

It was somewhat in jest JWag but his photo-op with books is not a good look and another example of douchebaggery.  On a serious note let's look at the greatest /top 5 players per decade.  I was born in 1983 so I cannot truly grasp the greatness of many of the past legends.  Nevertheless, I will give it a whirl.

1960's:

Chamberlain
Russell
Robertson
Baylor
West

1970's:

Jabbar
Barry
Erving
Hayes
Frazier

1980's

Bird
Magic
Moses
Thomas
McHale?  Worthy?

1990's

Jordan
Hakeem
Barkley
K. Malone
Pippen

2000's

Shaq
Duncan
Bryant
Lebron
*WADE?

2010's

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Paul
Harden

This is just off the top of my head.  I'm very unsure about the 70's.

*  People seem to forget that Dwyane essentially had 2.5 healthy seasons.  I will go to my grave believing his best was very comparable to Bryant by all metrics.  Do not forget what he did in 2006, the fact that after surgery he was the best player on team USA in 2008, and was absolutely the MVP of the league on a garbage Heat team in 2009. 

[MU82]

Sorry we cant be all be so noble and detached and wise about sports as you, Mike. If only we were half obsessed with Lebron as you were about referencing a certain "emperor", "king", or "President Pandemic" in 75% of the threads here. 

Politics! I'm telling!

[brewcity77]

1980's

Bird
Magic
Moses
Thomas
McHale?  Worthy?

Jordan would be the fifth. Won an MVP, as many first team All-NBA nods as Thomas and more than McHale and Worthy combined.

[MuggsyB]

Jordan would be the fifth. Won an MVP, as many first team All-NBA nods as Thomas and more than McHale and Worthy combined.

Ya...that's probably right.  I wasn't thinking of his pre-titles career.

[Warrior Code]

My 2¢: LeBron is corny, but he's so damn good that I can look past his antics most of the time. Yeah, he flopped a couple times, but he also just dropped 35/9/8 on your team's head at age 36. To be able to compete at as high a level as he has for nearly two decades is absolutely incredible. He'll never be my favorite player but as a basketball fan, the plays he can make on the court outweigh the cringe stuff - by quite a bit.

Ok, the book thing is definitely silly. And the flopping/complaining is pretty pathetic and it does impact my opinion of him. Does that make him a "phony"? I don't know. But the man does his job well and wins a ton of games every single year. And PR team or not, I think he means well and does try to make a positive impact on the community.

[jficke13]

My 2¢: LeBron is corny, but he's so damn good that I can look past his antics most of the time. Yeah, he flopped a couple times, but he also just dropped 35/9/8 on your team's head at age 36. To be able to compete at as high a level as he has for nearly two decades is absolutely incredible. He'll never be my favorite player but as a basketball fan, the plays he can make on the court outweigh the cringe stuff - by quite a bit.

Ok, the book thing is definitely silly. And the flopping/complaining is pretty pathetic and it does impact my opinion of him. Does that make him a "phony"? I don't know. But the man does his job well and wins a ton of games every single year. And PR team or not, I think he means well and does try to make a positive impact on the community.

How dare you try to be reasonable on the internet. It's torches OR pitchforks, never both and always one. smdh.

[StillAWarrior]

My 2¢: LeBron is corny, but he's so damn good that I can look past his antics most of the time. Yeah, he flopped a couple times, but he also just dropped 35/9/8 on your team's head at age 36. To be able to compete at as high a level as he has for nearly two decades is absolutely incredible. He'll never be my favorite player but as a basketball fan, the plays he can make on the court outweigh the cringe stuff - by quite a bit.

This reminds me of something I saw on Facebook earlier:




I had two initial thoughts:

• It's easy to forget how damn good Larry Bird was. Absolutely phenomenal. Sneaky good and I'm always amazed when I look at his stats. He doesn't get his due.
• Now do age 36.

Here are the numbers:

Bird

• 0.0 PPG
• 0.0 RPG
• 0.0 APG
• 0.0 FG%

James

• 25.0 PPG
• 7.7 RPG
• 7.8 APG
• 51.3 FG%

I'm well aware that one could place a lot of caveats on this (e.g., Bird's age 35 numbers were also really good; Bird retired because of injury; James only played 45 games, etc.), but it is impressive how productive Lebron remains at 36.

[Warrior Code]

How dare you try to be reasonable on the internet. It's torches OR pitchforks, never both and always one. smdh.

Bro I'm 6'5", I bench 350, IQ 180. Dare you to say that to my face. You don't want this smoke, bro

[The Lens]

Fine, swap out "loser" with phony, childish, etc

I don't care what he's done off the court with charity, cause it's certainly admirable but not germane to this discussion. I've never said he's a monster or that he should "shut up and dribble."  I think much of his on court behavior, for a player of his ability and size and accomplishment is pathetic and always has been. And I also think he, very much like Aaron Rodgers, is OBSESSED with an ongoing narrative that paints him as heroic and overcoming, often to excess. A close win against an inferior team needs a brushing of personal adversity to show that he was really a dramatic victor, not that his team snuck past someone they should have handily beat. He's been pretty consistent about it his entire career.  Just like all the books he pretends he reads for photo ops in the locker room yet doesn't get past the first 20 pages 

I think Wags' comparison to Rodgers is spot on.

With both of them I respect the hell out of what they have done on the court and off it.  But the way they carry themselves is exhausting.

LeBron's I Promise School, Miami bike program, etc. and Rodgers' MACC Fund / Small biz giving is amazing

Both of their behavior off the court is stellar.  Both of their play on the field is amazing

But the narrative they write for themselves is hilarious...

Yesterday LeBron posted TR's Man in the Arena speech...days after telling us the Play In games are an injustice.  Meanwhile Rodgers leaves Lambeau saying my future is a beautiful mystery and refuses to publicly address his situation with GB.   

   

[wadesworld]

Bro I'm 6'5", I bench 350, IQ 180. Dare you to say that to my face. You don't want this smoke, bro

Keefe is laughing at you and wondering how you aren't embarrassed to put those stats out to the universe.

[Warrior Code]

StillAWarrior - I don't know about the kids today, but I'm old enough to know that Bird was a force in his day. Super competitive and an extremely effective ballplayer

[Warrior Code]

Keefe is laughing at you and wondering how you aren't embarrassed to put those stats out to the universe.

I have a poster of Keefe on the wall in my garage gym, where I deadlift 550 for reps

[MU82]

My 2¢: LeBron is corny, but he's so damn good that I can look past his antics most of the time. Yeah, he flopped a couple times, but he also just dropped 35/9/8 on your team's head at age 36. To be able to compete at as high a level as he has for nearly two decades is absolutely incredible. He'll never be my favorite player but as a basketball fan, the plays he can make on the court outweigh the cringe stuff - by quite a bit.

Ok, the book thing is definitely silly. And the flopping/complaining is pretty pathetic and it does impact my opinion of him. Does that make him a "phony"? I don't know. But the man does his job well and wins a ton of games every single year. And PR team or not, I think he means well and does try to make a positive impact on the community.

Yep, on all of the above.

This reminds me of something I saw on Facebook earlier:




I had two initial thoughts:

• It's easy to forget how damn good Larry Bird was. Absolutely phenomenal. Sneaky good and I'm always amazed when I look at his stats. He doesn't get his due.
• Now do age 36.

Here are the numbers:

Bird

• 0.0 PPG
• 0.0 RPG
• 0.0 APG
• 0.0 FG%

James

• 25.0 PPG
• 7.7 RPG
• 7.8 APG
• 51.3 FG%

I'm well aware that one could place a lot of caveats on this (e.g., Bird's age 35 numbers were also really good; Bird retired because of injury; James only played 45 games, etc.), but it is impressive how productive Lebron remains at 36.

I really like this and my only nit is that I don't think Bird "doesn't get his due." He is included on almost any list of best basketball players ever, and he and Magic often are credited with "saving" the NBA. Not Russell or Wilt or West, not Michael, and certainly not LeBron ... but Bird and Magic.

It's a shame that injuries cut short Bird's career. He was amazing.

LeBron's longevity -- he is still a force at age 36 and in his 18th season -- truly is astonishing, especially when paired with his talent.

I can't put him up there with Jordan, but I've seen reasonable arguments that do.

Is it automatic we slot Lebron ahead of Jabbar or Chamberlain?

Yes.

[SERocks]

When are we going to call LeBron antics for what they are?  Cheating.  He is attempting to influence the ref to make a call to give his team an advantage when they do not deserve one.   Cheating. 

[Hards Alumni]

When are we going to call LeBron antics for what they are?  Cheating.  He is attempting to influence the ref to make a call to give his team an advantage when they do not deserve one.   Cheating.

And everyone does it.  Sheesh, guys.

[jficke13]

When are we going to call LeBron antics for what they are?  Cheating.  He is attempting to influence the ref to make a call to give his team an advantage when they do not deserve one.   Cheating.

lol, George Thompson used to talk about getting an acting degree when he was on the broadcast and one of our players drew a questionable shooting foul. Guess we have had a lot of cheaters over the years.

[lawdog77]

When are we going to call LeBron antics for what they are?  Cheating.  He is attempting to influence the ref to make a call to give his team an advantage when they do not deserve one.   Cheating.

You forgot teal

[StillAWarrior]

I really like this and my only nit is that I don't think Bird "doesn't get his due." He is included on almost any list of best basketball players ever, and he and Magic often are credited with "saving" the NBA. Not Russell or Wilt or West, not Michael, and certainly not LeBron ... but Bird and Magic.

I think that you make a good point, but I think that position resonates with a certain age group (i.e., those roughly our age or older) but not nearly as much with younger. I can guarantee you that my son -- who follows sports in general and the NBA specifically pretty closely -- would never think of Bird as being in the same conversation as most of the others you mentioned. It's ignorant, I realize, but I think it's pretty common. Even I, who watched Bird play and thoroughly enjoyed the Magic/Bird rivalry, often find myself surprised when I watch old footage of Bird or look at his stats.

[jficke13]

Ah, if that was a non-tealed teal post, I missed it and take my well deserved shaming. My bad.

[Jockey]

I can't put him up there with Jordan, but I've seen reasonable arguments that do.

Yes.

I disagree on both points, Mike. I think LeBron's longevity with showing signs of a decline equalize the two. But, I don't know who was better.

A good argument could be made for Wilt or Kareem as #1 overall. They were so unstoppable that rules were changed solely as a way to defend them. That never happened with MJ or LeBron.

If total career - HS, college, NBA - are all included, then it is a no-brainer. Kareem is #1 easily. His HS accomplishments are legendary. As a freshman in college, he led the UCLA freshman team (they weren't eligible for varsity play) in a blowout over the UCLA varsity team which was #1 in the country. His pro stats stand on their own with all of the MVPs and Championships.

[lawdog77]

I disagree on both points, Mike. I think LeBron's longevity with showing signs of a decline equalize the two. But, I don't know who was better.

A good argument could be made for Wilt or Kareem as #1 overall. They were so unstoppable that rules were changed solely as a way to defend them. That never happened with MJ or LeBron.

If total career - HS, college, NBA - are all included, then it is a no-brainer. Kareem is #1 easily. His HS accomplishments are legendary. As a freshman in college, he led the UCLA freshman team (they weren't eligible for varsity play) in a blowout over the UCLA varsity team which was #1 in the country. His pro stats stand on their own with all of the MVPs and Championships.

Kareem is a much better actor as well Airplane!>>>>>Conan the Destroyer>>>Space Jam>>Space Jam 2

[JWags85]

I disagree on both points, Mike. I think LeBron's longevity with showing signs of a decline equalize the two. But, I don't know who was better.

FWIW, Jordan plays 100 games a season and led the league in scoring and putting up his career averages in A/R/S at ages 33, 34, and 35.  Lebron has played 100 games in a season once since he turned 30.  Jordan also averaged 22/6/4 over 2 seasons at age 38/39 on teams with Kwame Brown and Bobby Simmons, not Anthony Davis.

Lebron's longevity has been impressive, especially since he entered the league at 19.  But Jordan had longevity and high production into his mid 30s too.  And he wasnt load managing like Lebron has for years.  Hell, Lebron mailed in the back half of his first season in LA and sat out cause it was a bad team and he was focused on the next few years.