NBA Thread 2020-21

[JWags85]

16 first quarter points for the the Fawns. Always good to see Thanasis playing significant minutes early on!

Edit: I don't love Middleton, but he is a very good player. However he is HORRIBLE in this current offense. He tries to play iso jab step basketball like Melo and he's just not good at it. This offense is just like putting bleach in your eyes right now. To the man they all look like crap. Giannis even looks like he's going through the motions

[forgetful]

Front page of ESPN has Lebron MVP talk again. The constant drumbeat of Lebron deserving an MVP is nauseating. This season, it would be easier to argue that he isn't even top 10 (currently ranked 11th in efficiency), and that he isn't even the best player on his team.

He is infinitely behind players like Embiid, and Jokic. And still behind Giannis, Doncic and Curry.

Can't wait for an entire season of the media trying to convince the world that Lebron is somehow the MVP.

[MU82]

Front page of ESPN has Lebron MVP talk again. The constant drumbeat of Lebron deserving an MVP is nauseating. This season, it would be easier to argue that he isn't even top 10 (currently ranked 11th in efficiency), and that he isn't even the best player on his team.

He is infinitely behind players like Embiid, and Jokic. And still behind Giannis, Doncic and Curry.

Can't wait for an entire season of the media trying to convince the world that Lebron is somehow the MVP.

I can see arguing that somebody other than LeBron deserves MVP this season. Arguing that LeBron is not even top 10, however, doesn't help your case.

He affects every single thing that the league's defending champion and, possibly, still best team does on the court. And his numbers are great, too. Let's wait to see how everything looks - including the standings - 2 months from now.

[The Sultan]

1. It's an article to get clicks.  Beyond that, it doesn't say that LBJ is the MVP.  It says with Davis out, his play during this stretch could mean that he could stake a claim to be MVP.

2.  Forgetful is right.  He is not the best player in the league.

3.  Forgetful isn't right.  He is a top 10 player.

Don't spend too much time worrying about an article in February.

[forgetful]

I can see arguing that somebody other than LeBron deserves MVP this season. Arguing that LeBron is not even top 10, however, doesn't help your case.

He affects every single thing that the league's defending champion and, possibly, still best team does on the court. And his numbers are great, too. Let's wait to see how everything looks - including the standings - 2 months from now.

Just to be clear, I didn't say he wasn't top 10. I said it is easier to make the case that he isn't top 10, than to make the case that he is MVP.

He's outside of the top 10 in player efficiency. He is 17th in WS/48 (5 spots behind his teammate). In my opinion, AD has outplayed him this year.

I would actually argue for him being top 10, but can see arguments against it. There really aren't any arguments for him being MVP, besides the "its Lebron, and his team is good"...which isn't actually an argument.

[MU82]

Just to be clear, I didn't say he wasn't top 10. I said it is easier to make the case that he isn't top 10, than to make the case that he is MVP.

He's outside of the top 10 in player efficiency. In my opinion, AD has outplayed him this year.

I would actually argue for him being top 10, but can see arguments against it. There really aren't any arguments for him being MVP, besides the "its Lebron, and his team is good"...which isn't actually an argument.

Sorry, but there is absolutely no argument for him not being in the top 10, so you continue to hurt your own thesis.

The Lakers are one of the 2-3 best teams in the NBA, and LeBron drives everything they do. Like every other Laker, AD benefits significantly from being LeBron's teammate - which is one reason why AD so desperately wanted to be LeBron's teammate. I doubt there are many NBA GMs who if asked, "Which Lakers player would you want this season?" would choose AD over LeBron.

Of course LeBron is in the MVP discussion - and he should be. Again, the season is barely 2 months old. Let's talk again in 2 months.

[forgetful]

Sorry, but there is absolutely no argument for him not being in the top 10, so you continue to hurt your own thesis.

The Lakers are one of the 2-3 best teams in the NBA, and LeBron drives everything they do. Like every other Laker, AD benefits significantly from being LeBron's teammate - which is one reason why AD so desperately wanted to be LeBron's teammate. I doubt there are many NBA GMs who if asked, "Which Lakers player would you want this season?" would choose AD over LeBron.

Of course LeBron is in the MVP discussion - and he should be. Again, the season is barely 2 months old. Let's talk again in 2 months.

He's outside of the top 10 in several advanced stats often used to assess MVP candidates. These include WS/48 and PER ratings. In both of those stats he is behind AD.

There is the argument against him being top 10.

I agree with you that he is still top 10, but it is a pretty easy argument to say otherwise.

Him being "in the discussion" right now is ridiculous. Just like it was ridiculous when Jordan was "in the discussion" during his return year to the Wizards. I agree, in 2 months we'll know more.

And AD wanted to play with Lebron, because he wanted a championship and they have complimentary styles/games. Lebron doesn't make AD better, just gave AD a solid chance at a championship. Any player that needs the ball in his hands, isn't made better by being on a team with Lebron (or Giannis, or others for that matter). For instance, Steph Curry would not be made better by being on a team with Lebron, and Lebron wouldn't be made better by being on a team with Steph...both players would benefit from playing with AD.

If I was Golden State, and was offered a healthy Lebron or AD, you'd have to be an idiot not to take AD. Not because of who is better/worse, but rather simply who can compliment your existing star the best.

Sultan is right though, it is click bait, designed to troll people. They got me. I need to be better.

[MU82]

He's outside of the top 10 in several advanced stats often used to assess MVP candidates. These include WS/48 and PER ratings. In both of those stats he is behind AD.

There is the argument against him being top 10.

I agree with you that he is still top 10, but it is a pretty easy argument to say otherwise.

Him being "in the discussion" right now is ridiculous. Just like it was ridiculous when Jordan was "in the discussion" during his return year to the Wizards. I agree, in 2 months we'll know more.

And AD wanted to play with Lebron, because he wanted a championship and they have complimentary styles/games. Lebron doesn't make AD better, just gave AD a solid chance at a championship. Any player that needs the ball in his hands, isn't made better by being on a team with Lebron (or Giannis, or others for that matter). For instance, Steph Curry would not be made better by being on a team with Lebron, and Lebron wouldn't be made better by being on a team with Steph...both players would benefit from playing with AD.

If I was Golden State, and was offered a healthy Lebron or AD, you'd have to be an idiot not to take AD. Not because of who is better/worse, but rather simply who can compliment your existing star the best.

Sultan is right though, it is click bait, designed to troll people. They got me. I need to be better.

OK. We will agree to disagree about most of this.

[forgetful]

OK. We will agree to disagree about most of this.

And I need to remember to suppress my Lebron hate. I swear in another life/dimension he must have kicked my dog or something, because he really gets under my skin and I don't have a great reason why.

[MU82]

Acting, flopping Harden dupes refs into calling game-deciding (and bogus) offensive foul on Kawhi.

Terrible.

[JWags85]

Acting, flopping Harden dupes refs into calling game-deciding (and bogus) offensive foul on Kawhi.

Terrible.

It's probably a no call, but Kawhi did extend his arm and clear out.  Harden was playing very good defense and KL doesn't get to the rim unless he did.  However, players do it all the time and don't get called.  It was kind of bizarre.

[wadesworld]

Maybe they'll both sit until they're traded to a team together.

[MU82]

It's probably a no call, but Kawhi did extend his arm and clear out.  Harden was playing very good defense and KL doesn't get to the rim unless he did.  However, players do it all the time and don't get called.  It was kind of bizarre.

Harden actually reached out and put both hands on Kawhi before Kawhi extended his arm. Should have been no call, but Harden made the initial contact and maintained it. And then, after Kawhi extended his arm to get Harden off of him, Harden acted as if he had just been shot by a sniper.

Hey, I don't blame Harden (who, BTW, might be playing the best all-around basketball of his career). It was a brutally bad call IMHO.

[MU82]

Nuggets had 4-on-1 break down by 2 with 5-6 seconds left last night.

Instead of going for the easy tying layup, all 4 players stopped at the arc and they ended up bricking a 3.

Stoopid.

[forgetful]

Nuggets had 4-on-1 break down by 2 with 5-6 seconds left last night.

Instead of going for the easy tying layup, all 4 players stopped at the arc and they ended up bricking a 3.

Stoopid.

I saw that. What a mess.

Shows that even at the professional level, sometimes the guys just screw up.

[JWags85]

Nuggets had 4-on-1 break down by 2 with 5-6 seconds left last night.

Instead of going for the easy tying layup, all 4 players stopped at the arc and they ended up bricking a 3.

Stoopid.

Jamal Murray took a lot of heat, but if you watch him, he pulls up, draws Beal towards him, and then rears back for what looks like an overhand bounce pass into a wide open lane....but Porter Jr, who has proven to be kind of a dolt, inexplicably drifts to the perimeter instead of where Murray was looking to pass it.  Campazzo is an extremely smart player normally, no clue why he didn't notice MPJ screwed up and cut to the lane himself.  Just baffling execution

[MU82]

Jamal Murray took a lot of heat, but if you watch him, he pulls up, draws Beal towards him, and then rears back for what looks like an overhand bounce pass into a wide open lane....but Porter Jr, who has proven to be kind of a dolt, inexplicably drifts to the perimeter instead of where Murray was looking to pass it.  Campazzo is an extremely smart player normally, no clue why he didn't notice MPJ screwed up and cut to the lane himself.  Just baffling execution

Totally agree. Murray could have been more aggressive there, but it was the two guys on his right who just stopped at the arc. Crazy.

[forgetful]

Jamal Murray took a lot of heat, but if you watch him, he pulls up, draws Beal towards him, and then rears back for what looks like an overhand bounce pass into a wide open lane....but Porter Jr, who has proven to be kind of a dolt, inexplicably drifts to the perimeter instead of where Murray was looking to pass it.  Campazzo is an extremely smart player normally, no clue why he didn't notice MPJ screwed up and cut to the lane himself.  Just baffling execution

This makes a lot of sense. I kept wondering why at least one of the other 2 didn't make an aggressive cut for an easy bucket.

[PGsHeroes32]

Jimmy and the Heat on a streak and about to go on a big run.

Hes playing top 10 level ball since his rona break. Dragic is back. Herro and Bradley should be soon.

That team still really strong.

[MuggsyB]

Jimmy and the Heat on a streak and about to go on a big run.

Hes playing top 10 level ball since his rona break. Dragic is back. Herro and Bradley should be soon.

That team still really strong.

Yes.  Jimmy is getting back to elite balling.

[MuggsyB]

I do think the incessant launching of the 3pt shot is making the NBA game less watchable.  It also skews the stats historically.  Part of the problem is while analytics are here to stay they don't tell you how dumb that play was in the Denver game.  Or for example how many bad three point shots lead to easy points on the other end.

Also, the way the game is refereed is problematic.  Not only can't you touch a guy on the perimeter, but often they jump into you and draw 3 FT's a la Harden.  That's not basketball imo. I think they should definitely push the line back for starters but I would also bring back more physicality on the ball. 

They just took the goal of scoring more points too far.  They take tons of threes and lots of FT's.  There is no longer competent post or mid-range play.  No one wants to see brawls and mugging like the late 80's/90's but I think it's time to tweak a few things.

[wadesworld]

I believe the Bucks are 1-11 when tied or trailing going into the fourth this season (with the 1 win being a tie last game against the NOP). So today Bud sits on his timeouts while leading by 11 coming down the stretch of the 3rd and gives up a 13-0 run, and then STILL goes to his garbage lineup to close out the quarter, seeing the run balloon to 21-5. So now the Bucks get to play from behind in the fourth after being in complete control all game.

[The Sultan]

I believe the Bucks are 1-11 when tied or trailing going into the fourth this season (with the 1 win being a tie last game against the NOP). So today Bud sits on his timeouts while leading by 11 coming down the stretch of the 3rd and gives up a 13-0 run, and then STILL goes to his garbage lineup to close out the quarter, seeing the run balloon to 21-5. So now the Bucks get to play from behind in the fourth after being in complete control all game.

He took a TO when they cut it to five. Agree about the line up though.

[cheebs09]

I believe the Bucks are 1-11 when tied or trailing going into the fourth this season (with the 1 win being a tie last game against the NOP). So today Bud sits on his timeouts while leading by 11 coming down the stretch of the 3rd and gives up a 13-0 run, and then STILL goes to his garbage lineup to close out the quarter, seeing the run balloon to 21-5. So now the Bucks get to play from behind in the fourth after being in complete control all game.

Would Brad Stevens be an upgrade? I assume so, but don't know if the shine is off him a bit.

Naturally, this is all assuming he's not begging for the MU job.

[cheebs09]

I haven't watched much of the Bucks. Is their defensive rebounding always this bad?