Big East Poll and NET rankings

[brewcity77]

Was the schedule his fault in year 2? I thought the AD scheduled that in advance by a few years

The home-and-homes and exempt tournies are planned in advance, but the guarantee games are usually scheduled in the early parts of the year. Sometimes during the season, but often in the first couple months after it.

[The Big East]

Big East NET Rankings as of Games of February 6,2021
New Old
11   12   Villanova   
33   34   Creighton   
34   35   Xavier   
46   49   Seton Hall   
55   43   UConn   
65   67   St. John's
94   85   Providence   
102   99   Marquette   
113   112   Georgetown   
132   133   Butler   
174   165   DePaul   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Virginia Tech, being under two seasons removed from a Buzz purge, is sitting comfortably with a 14-4 record and a top-40 NET ranking.  Their head coach came into a situation where each of the recruits followed Buzz to A&M and the program lost its top-6 contributors from the year before.  Last year, they still managed to go 16-16 (MU went 13-19 in Wojo's first year). 

I bring this up because for the past few years, many posters argued that Wojo's first season should not count towards his resume at MU.  Why is it that other programs, like Stan at LMU, or Mike Young at VT, can go into a program and get the team to be competitive from day one?  Wojo's first season should have been considered a red flag, as many other examples have had.

Virginia Tech wasn't competitive from Day 1 with the new coach. They sucked last season. He is getting things going in season 2 faster than Wojo did. We will see if it lasts. History suggests it won't.

[The Big East]

Big East NET Rankings as of games of February 7, 2021
New Old
11   11   Villanova   
31   33   Creighton   
33   34   Xavier   
45   46   Seton Hall   
53   55   UConn   
63   65   St. John's
94   94   Providence   
102   102   Marquette   
112   113   Georgetown   
131   132   Butler   
171   174   DePaul

[The Big East]

Big East Poll Rankings February 8, 2021
AP
5. Nova
19. Creighton
Others receiving votes
X, St.John’s
Coaches
4. Nova
17. Creighton
Others Receiving Votes
X, Seton Hall

[UWW2MU]

Crazy how many Big Ten teams are ranked and have high NET rankings when they have (by my count, which admittedly could be wrong) only two non-conference Q1 victories in the entire conference.   Meanwhile, Big East in this down year has five Q1 non-conference wins with 20% less teams.  Also for reference, B12 is 8 total Q1 non-con wins.

I feel that some of these analytics and the hype in the AP poll is a self fulfilling prophecy.  They start out with a perception of being good (or getting fed strong pre-season metrics), don't play much strong competition and chew up weak opponents, and voila! the numbers show how great they are.

[The Big East]

Big East NET rankings as of games of February 8,2021
New Old
11   11   Villanova   
32   31   Creighton   
33   33   Xavier   
45   45   Seton Hall   
54   53   UConn   
64   63   St. John’s
93   94   Providence   
101   102   Marquette   
110   112   Georgetown   
131   131   Butler   
170   171   DePaul

[MU82]

Moved up to 101. We're rollin' now!

[Billy Hoyle]

big stretch for St. John's if the conference is going to get a sixth team into the tourney.  At Butler then home against X and DePaul. 3-0 in that stretch should put them solidly in.

It will be interesting to see if the UConn in Queens game gets rescheduled.

[Silent Verbal]

big stretch for St. John's if the conference is going to get a sixth team into the tourney.  At Butler then home against X and DePaul. 3-0 in that stretch should put them solidly in.

It will be interesting to see if the UConn in Queens game gets rescheduled.

Kudos to St. John's.  It's pretty staggering that, less than two years into his time there, Mike Anderson has his program ahead of Wojo and Marquette.  Just watching their games against us, you can already see the culture he's trying to instill there, as opposed to the playground ball they played under Mullen.  They're a fun team to watch and I'll be rooting for them in the tournament, if they make it.

[brewcity77]

Kudos to St. John's.  It's pretty staggering that, less than two years into his time there, Mike Anderson has his program ahead of Wojo and Marquette.  Just watching their games against us, you can already see the culture he's trying to instill there, as opposed to the playground ball they played under Mullen.  They're a fun team to watch and I'll be rooting for them in the tournament, if they make it.

Agreed, they are very fun to watch. Alexander and Champagnie will be fun the next couple of years.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Anderson deserves a lot of props. Champagnie was unranked coming out of high school, I believe Seton Hall was his only other high major offer. Alexander was ranked #254 and a handful of high major offers but none from elite programs. It takes a quality coach to identify talent that no one else is seeing.

[MU82]

Agree about St. John's. Anderson is doing a fine job there so far.

It took Anderson 3 seasons at Mizzou to get to the NCAAs and 4 seasons at Arkansas to get there. It also should be noted that after his Elite 8 run at Mizzou in 2009, he has won only 3 NCAA tourney games in 11 years, never getting to the second weekend in that span.

Of course, those are 3 more NCAA tourney wins than Wojo has, and Wojo doesn't have the luxury of an E8 run to fall back on.

Despite a pretty solid record at Arkansas, officials there fired him as soon as he had a losing conference record in his 8th season. Said the AD: “We have not sustained a consistent level of success against the most competitive teams in the nation to enable us to compete for SEC and NCAA Championships on an annual basis. That will continue to be the benchmark for our success throughout our athletic program."

Many Scoopers think that should be our standard, too, and I agree. Anderson was fired even though he had gone to 3 NCAATs in 4 years - as was the case for Wojo entering this year (assuming a bid last year). It's time for Wojo to go.

Anderson did lose to Wojo in this season's first meeting and then barely beat Wojo in the rematch. The loss was the only one for StJ in the last month, and the win was StJ's most narrow win in that span. So it's not as though he has dominated Wojo.

From afar, not following St. John's as intently as I do Marquette, I like the way Anderson coaches, and I'd trade Wojo for him in a heartbeat. But calling Anderson an "elite" coach would seem a stretch, and we'll see how well he does at St. John's going forward.

As for St. John's players ...

Posh will be a pain in our posterior for 3 more years. Champagnie ... it's hard to believe he will stay in college past next season. Indeed, his twin brother is said to be likely to leave Pitt after this season, and there has been more than a little speculation that Julian might go pro too.

[Silent Verbal]

Agree about St. John's. Anderson is doing a fine job there so far.

It took Anderson 3 seasons at Mizzou to get to the NCAAs and 4 seasons at Arkansas to get there. It also should be noted that after his Elite 8 run at Mizzou in 2009, he has won only 3 NCAA tourney games in 11 years, never getting to the second weekend in that span.

Of course, those are 3 more NCAA tourney wins than Wojo has, and Wojo doesn't have the luxury of an E8 run to fall back on.

Despite a pretty solid record at Arkansas, officials there fired him as soon as he had a losing conference record in his 8th season. Said the AD: “We have not sustained a consistent level of success against the most competitive teams in the nation to enable us to compete for SEC and NCAA Championships on an annual basis. That will continue to be the benchmark for our success throughout our athletic program."

Many Scoopers think that should be our standard, too, and I agree. Anderson was fired even though he had gone to 3 NCAATs in 4 years - as was the case for Wojo entering this year (assuming a bid last year). It's time for Wojo to go.

Anderson did lose to Wojo in this season's first meeting and then barely beat Wojo in the rematch. The loss was the only one for StJ in the last month, and the win was StJ's most narrow win in that span. So it's not as though he has dominated Wojo.

From afar, not following St. John's as intently as I do Marquette, I like the way Anderson coaches, and I'd trade Wojo for him in a heartbeat. But calling Anderson an "elite" coach would seem a stretch, and we'll see how well he does at St. John's going forward.

As for St. John's players ...

Posh will be a pain in our posterior for 3 more years. Champagnie ... it's hard to believe he will stay in college past next season. Indeed, his twin brother is said to be likely to leave Pitt after this season, and there has been more than a little speculation that Julian might go pro too.

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone called Anderson an "elite" coach, though I agree with you that he isn't one.  However, if St. John's makes it this year, it will be the fourth program he's taken to the NCAAT.  At each of his three previous stops, he's guided his team to the Tournament three times.  That's really good consistency, and shows that no matter where he goes, he'll be able to build a winner.  That's the type of coach you want to look for when you're a program that can't just hire whoever it wants.  St. John's was lucky to get him; he's probably better than they deserved.

And I was thinking the same thing about Champagnie.  If he has a really good string of games down the stretch this year, he might go pro and *might* be a second round pick.  It would suck for St. John's and the conference as a whole, but that's just how it is nowadays.  With few exceptions, guys don't stick around anymore.

[MU82]

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone called Anderson an "elite" coach, though I agree with you that he isn't one.  However, if St. John's makes it this year, it will be the fourth program he's taken to the NCAAT.  At each of his three previous stops, he's guided his team to the Tournament three times.  That's really good consistency, and shows that no matter where he goes, he'll be able to build a winner.  That's the type of coach you want to look for when you're a program that can't just hire whoever it wants.  St. John's was lucky to get him; he's probably better than they deserved.

And I was thinking the same thing about Champagnie.  If he has a really good string of games down the stretch this year, he might go pro and *might* be a second round pick.  It would suck for St. John's and the conference as a whole, but that's just how it is nowadays.  With few exceptions, guys don't stick around anymore.

Fair enough. Anderson certainly has been a good coach, and St. John’s definitely is fortunate that he fell in their lap.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Anderson is 1 of only 4 current coaches with at least 15 years as a head coach to never have a losing record.

I love the intensity St. John's is playing with under his leadership.

[Billy Hoyle]

Anderson deserves a lot of props. Champagnie was unranked coming out of high school, I believe Seton Hall was his only other high major offer. Alexander was ranked #254 and a handful of high major offers but none from elite programs. It takes a quality coach to identify talent that no one else is seeing.

Posh is perfect for Anderson's system, especially defensively.

Anderson is doing a good job keeping NYC area kids home and identifying under the radar guys. Addae-Wusu was unranked and has become a significant contributor. Two Long Island kids signed for next year too. SJU will rarely, if ever get the elite NYC kids, but if Anderson can keep the 3 and occasional 4 star kids home who fit into his system he'll have them in the upper half of the conference consistently.

[MU82]

Anderson is 1 of only 4 current coaches with at least 15 years as a head coach to never have a losing record.

I love the intensity St. John's is playing with under his leadership.

I didn't know that about his record. Very impressive.

He did have losing conference records, two each at Mizzou and Arkansas. His last one got him fired.

[bilsu]

If I remember right, Anderson has brought in a couple of Juco players. This made me think of Buzz.

What stood out to me about St. John's and DePaul is how much quicker they were than MU.

[brewcity77]

Fair enough. Anderson certainly has been a good coach, and St. John’s definitely is fortunate that he fell in their lap.

Considering what a sh**show that hiring process was, they are incredibly fortunate. Bobby Hurley, Porter Moser, Ryan Odom, and Tim Cluess all turned them down. They were considering Frank Haith and Paul Hewitt, neither of whom have done anything impressive of late. It's like they slipped and fell ass-backwards into a pile of $20 bills.

[Shooter McGavin]

Considering what a sh**show that hiring process was, they are incredibly fortunate. Bobby Hurley, Porter Moser, Ryan Odom, and Tim Cluess all turned them down. They were considering Frank Haith and Paul Hewitt, neither of whom have done anything impressive of late. It's like they slipped and fell ass-backwards into a pile of $20 bills.

Yep.  Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.  We will need a little luck on our next hire.

[MU82]

Wojo was the worst coach in the history of mankind because MU blew a lead to Butler but hung on to win.

Anderson just blew a lead to Butler and lost.

[Johnny B]

Wojo was the worst coach in the history of mankind because MU blew a lead to Butler but hung on to win.

Anderson just blew a lead to Butler and lost.

who says worst coach in history

[The Big East]

Big East NET rankings as of games of February 9, 2021
New Old
11   11   Villanova   
29   32   Creighton   
33   33   Xavier   
45   45   Seton Hall   
51   54   UConn   
70   64   St. John's
93   93   Providence   
101   101   Marquette   
115   110   Georgetown   
123   131   Butler   
168   170   DePaul

[WarriorPride68]

Wojo was the worst coach in the history of mankind because MU blew a lead to Butler but hung on to win.

Anderson just blew a lead to Butler and lost.

EXTEND WOJO DAMNIT!