Traffic ticket issue

[#UnleashSean]

Hi guys,

Today as I was driving home with a very heavy load in my truck I was sitting at an intersection waiting for the green light. I noticed in my tow mirrors that a cop was on his radio and looking at my truck.

I figured he would be pulling me over to inspect the safety of my load. No problem as I easily secured everything down with 3000lb straps.

He turned on his lights after we crossed the intersection, I signaled into the right lane and he followed. Definitely being pulled over for load inspection now I thought. We were in a 2 lane road on the main road in the town, no shoulder on the road. I have a 9 foot plow in front and a 1000lb load in the back, obviously not being able to stop anywhere on this road. I threw on my hazards, dropped to 15mph, signaled to the cop that I knew I was being pulled over and continued about 2 blocks to the nearest side road with a shoulder.

The police officer came to my window in a steam. Asked why I didn't stop right away. I responded with "Because of it being the busiest part of town and there being no shoulder". He then said that "he was the one who determined where safety resided" and asked why he was pulling me over. While I understand to never answer that question I told him that it was probably for a load inspection and that the cargo was going absolutely no where.

He ended up pulling me over for an improper display of license plate. (My real license plates were stolen two weeks prior and I received temporary paper plates instead) There was a storm a couple of days ago and apparently the temporary plate got ripped up pretty bad. The officer said he was unable to read it, when I looked it was ripped and curled from the rain, however it was still perfectly readable.

In the end the officer gave me three citations:

Improper display of License $80 fine 0 points on license(this one should be easily explainable and thrown away)
No insurance $120 fine 0 points (Insurance policy was on phone and I had no service at the time, when I go to court the officer assured me this would be legally thrown out when I can show proof of insurance dating back to today)
Failure to stop for an emergency vehicle. $250 fine, 4 points
Now I'm not overly concerned about 1 & 2. But #3 is something that does concern me. In my private drivers license they really hit on pulling over in a SAFE location. The location the officer wanted me to pull over was clearly very unsafe. I have taken pictures of my license plate, the intersection, where the officer wanted me to pull over and where I eventually pulled over. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed?

[Coleman]

I know this wasn't the advice you are looking for, but pro-tip on the insurance...

Just take a screen shot of your card and store it in your photos. It won't matter if you have service or not.

[Galway Eagle]

I know this wasn't the advice you are looking for, but pro-tip on the insurance...

Just take a screen shot of your card and store it in your photos. It won't matter if you have service or not.

+1 I do this with every insurance card so I don't need to drag it everywhere.

[jficke13]

Wisconsin? Can you give the statute citation from the failure to stop ticket?

[#UnleashSean]

Wisconsin

Ordinance 7.01

State statute 346.19(1)

[Warriors4ever]

Take a video of the two block stretch. Necessity defense.
I am not sure what your sentence about the private drivers school meant, but can you get some type of statement from them about what exactly they teach drivers to do?

[Warrior Code]

Take a video of the two block stretch. Necessity defense.
I am not sure what your sentence about the private drivers school meant, but can you get some type of statement from them about what exactly they teach drivers to do?

This. Hopefully the judge will be familiar with that intersection and agree with you, but get photo/video evidence as well.

[Hards Alumni]

Hi guys,

Today as I was driving home with a very heavy load in my truck I was sitting at an intersection waiting for the green light. I noticed in my tow mirrors that a cop was on his radio and looking at my truck.

I figured he would be pulling me over to inspect the safety of my load. No problem as I easily secured everything down with 3000lb straps.

He turned on his lights after we crossed the intersection, I signaled into the right lane and he followed. Definitely being pulled over for load inspection now I thought. We were in a 2 lane road on the main road in the town, no shoulder on the road. I have a 9 foot plow in front and a 1000lb load in the back, obviously not being able to stop anywhere on this road. I threw on my hazards, dropped to 15mph, signaled to the cop that I knew I was being pulled over and continued about 2 blocks to the nearest side road with a shoulder.

The police officer came to my window in a steam. Asked why I didn't stop right away. I responded with "Because of it being the busiest part of town and there being no shoulder". He then said that "he was the one who determined where safety resided" and asked why he was pulling me over. While I understand to never answer that question I told him that it was probably for a load inspection and that the cargo was going absolutely no where.

He ended up pulling me over for an improper display of license plate. (My real license plates were stolen two weeks prior and I received temporary paper plates instead) There was a storm a couple of days ago and apparently the temporary plate got ripped up pretty bad. The officer said he was unable to read it, when I looked it was ripped and curled from the rain, however it was still perfectly readable.

In the end the officer gave me three citations:

Improper display of License $80 fine 0 points on license(this one should be easily explainable and thrown away)
No insurance $120 fine 0 points (Insurance policy was on phone and I had no service at the time, when I go to court the officer assured me this would be legally thrown out when I can show proof of insurance dating back to today)
Failure to stop for an emergency vehicle. $250 fine, 4 points
Now I'm not overly concerned about 1 & 2. But #3 is something that does concern me. In my private drivers license they really hit on pulling over in a SAFE location. The location the officer wanted me to pull over was clearly very unsafe. I have taken pictures of my license plate, the intersection, where the officer wanted me to pull over and where I eventually pulled over. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed?

Yeah go to court, that cop is a bastard.  Judge will toss all of those.

[dgies9156]

If this was Illinois, I'd say go to court. You'd get everything thrown out.

Guy gives police officers a bad name.

[Jockey]

Yeah go to court, that cop is a bastard.  Judge will toss all of those.

You’re right about the cop. He did this simply because he could and he was the poor sucker who happened to be on the road at the time. I would definitely file a complaint.

Not so sure it will be tossed. Judges always look to support the police in court first.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

"We'll waive the points, but just cant do anything about those fines."

[Hards Alumni]

"We'll waive the points, but just cant do anything about those fines."

Gotta justify their existence somehow.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

1)  Just put a copy of your insurance card in the glove compartment.
2) Fight it.  Take photos & video as recommended.

Why fight?  A number of years ago I got a ticket for parking in a handicap spot on an I-95 rest stop McDonald's parking lot.  (It was post-bar close food visit.)  If known I would not have parked there.  I took issue because there was no wheelchair painted in the space.  There was no sign in front of the space indicating it was handicap.  There was a sign three spaces over that read "<--Handicap Parking".  The arrow just pointed my direction.  And the sign was partially obscured by weeping cherry tree branches.  The cop wasn't going to budge.  I pleaded innocent.  I took plenty of photos and brought the photos and one of the friends who was with me to court and they threw it out.  On a subsequent visit I noticed they painted a wheelchair, put up more signs and trimmed bushes.

[Buzzed]

You already know the answer.  Get a lawyer preferably one that does a lot of volume with the city/village and knows how the attorneys and judge work.  This is a lawyer's bread and butter.  They take a stack of different minor client cases and negotiate them rapidly.  This screams like a small municipality that only cares about the money, so the attorneys/judge will decide you pay X amount for the municipal violation of pamphlet bombing.  This takes your attorney literally about 5 minutes, costs you a couple hundred for the attorney, the final fine, and turns it from a driving offense to a municipal violation that typically does not even show up in CCAP.

Be careful with anyone that tells you to fight it out in court because it is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars in court fees plus the officer's hourly rate win or lose.  Small municipalities often hire local attorneys as prosecutors that are paid on a percentage they bring in.  If you are going to make them prosecute it, then you will pay.  In Wisconsin, municipal judges do not even need a law degree and this is a civil matter, so you have to prove you are 100% innocent.  You have your version and the cop has his.

Also, the cop was probably upset because you ruined his quota for the day by not pulling over where he wanted.  His partner was probably setting up to pull over anyone that did not slow or yield to an emergency vehicle, which would would have been way more lucrative than your tickets.

[Spotcheck Billy]

You already know the answer.  Get a lawyer preferably one that does a lot of volume with the city/village and knows how the attorneys and judge work.  This is a lawyer's bread and butter.  They take a stack of different minor client cases and negotiate them rapidly.  This screams like a small municipality that only cares about the money, so the attorneys/judge will decide you pay X amount for the municipal violation of pamphlet bombing.  This takes your attorney literally about 5 minutes, costs you a couple hundred for the attorney, the final fine, and turns it from a driving offense to a municipal violation that typically does not even show up in CCAP.

Be careful with anyone that tells you to fight it out in court because it is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars in court fees plus the officer's hourly rate win or lose.  Small municipalities often hire local attorneys as prosecutors that are paid on a percentage they bring in.  If you are going to make them prosecute it, then you will pay.  In Wisconsin, municipal judges do not even need a law degree and this is a civil matter, so you have to prove you are 100% innocent.  You have your version and the cop has his.

Also, the cop was probably upset because you ruined his quota for the day by not pulling over where he wanted.  His partner was probably setting up to pull over anyone that did not slow or yield to an emergency vehicle, which would would have been way more lucrative than your tickets.

I don't know about having to pay fees in traffic court. When I was young I drove too fast too often and got many speeding tickets. I always showed up for the court date and received probation or dismissal every time and never paid any fees above the fine and never had to pay for the officer's time, more often than not the officer didn't appear in court.

[jficke13]

346.19  What to do on approach of emergency vehicle.
(1) Upon the approach of any authorized emergency vehicle giving audible signal by siren the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately drive such vehicle to a position as near as possible and parallel to the right curb or the right-hand edge of the shoulder of the roadway, clear of any intersection and, unless otherwise directed by a traffic officer, shall stop and remain standing in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed.

Getting real stickler-ish for the language of the statute, "immediately" isn't qualified by "as one may do so safely" or any similar language.

Not sure about the ordinance (not sure what municipality you were in), but Waukesha's 7.01 is just "we're adopting the state traffic laws" so you're main argument is probably going to center on the above.

You can probably argue that 346.19(2) imposes a duty on the *officer* to ensure that the stop is conducted in a safe and prudent manner.

(2) This section does not relieve the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard under the circumstances for the safety of all persons using the highway.

"Given the narrow nature of the roadway, the lack of a shoulder, and the size of my vehicle, my load, and my plow blade (all of which I have demonstrated with photographs taken by myself and previously presented to the court as exhibits), it was imprudent and unsafe to stop in the location where the officer first activated his lights. I took reasonable steps to demonstrate my compliance with the directive to yield to the traffic stop by slowing, and activating my hazard lights, and proceeded to the first place where I could stop in such a way as to not endanger the safety of the officer and any other traffic. Because Wisconsin Statute 346.19(2) clearly contemplates the safety of all users of the roadway when an emergency vehicle uses its lights to effectuate drivers to yield to their directive, it was necessary for me to proceed as I did in order to ensure that the stop could occur in a safe manner for all participants."

Honestly, it's up to how corrupt the cops and muni judge is. If they see their role as arbiters of justice, I say you've got a shot. If they see their role as exacting revenue from the peasants unfortunate enough to come beneath their notice, then you could be represented by the ghosts of RBG, William Rehnquist, and Jesus Christ and it wouldn't really matter.

[Buzzed]

I don't know about having to pay fees in traffic court. When I was young I drove too fast too often and got many speeding tickets. I always showed up for the court date and received probation or dismissal every time and never paid any fees above the fine and never had to pay for the officer's time, more often than not the officer didn't appear in court.

Based on the situation, this sounds like a small affluent community think Elm Grove, Bayside, Summit, etc.  They probably do not have a traffic court, so you show up like the ticket says without a lawyer.  You stand before the judge and anything can happen.  The judge could ask for your side of the story and decide to offer probation or dismiss like in your experience.  They could also say no to lowering the charges, or they could simply ask you how you plea without your story.  If you plea not guilty or want to get it lowered with say the driving points dropped, then a court date is set and you have to pay for the court case regardless of outcome.  Anything can happen in small town courts as it is.  With how strained municipalities budgets are due to COVID, I doubt they are dismissing any revenue easily; especially from someone who may not even live in the community.

If it were me, I would pay a couple hundred dollars (don't know the actual rate for the area) to handle it correct from the start.  Again, you want to find an attorney that handles a lot of business in that community.  An "A+" expensive lawyer from Milwaukee might not be nearly effective as the local attorney that goes to the same church as the judge and interacts with him daily.  The good news is this a blip on the radar, so if you try DIYing it the worst that happens is some points and an uptick in your insurance.

[Warriors4ever]

I would definitely agree that a local lawyer is much better than one who doesn’t practice there.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I would definitely agree that a local lawyer is much better than one who doesn’t practice there.

Vincent Gambino would disagree...

[Warrior Code]

Vincent Gambino would disagree...

That's different, he's family.

[GooooMarquette]

Vincent Gambino would disagree...

What is a Ute?

[dgies9156]

You already know the answer.  Get a lawyer preferably one that does a lot of volume with the city/village and knows how the attorneys and judge work.  This is a lawyer's bread and butter.  They take a stack of different minor client cases and negotiate them rapidly.  This screams like a small municipality that only cares about the money, so the attorneys/judge will decide you pay X amount for the municipal violation of pamphlet bombing.  This takes your attorney literally about 5 minutes, costs you a couple hundred for the attorney, the final fine, and turns it from a driving offense to a municipal violation that typically does not even show up in CCAP.

Be careful with anyone that tells you to fight it out in court because it is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars in court fees plus the officer's hourly rate win or lose.  Small municipalities often hire local attorneys as prosecutors that are paid on a percentage they bring in.  If you are going to make them prosecute it, then you will pay.  In Wisconsin, municipal judges do not even need a law degree and this is a civil matter, so you have to prove you are 100% innocent.  You have your version and the cop has his.

Also, the cop was probably upset because you ruined his quota for the day by not pulling over where he wanted.  His partner was probably setting up to pull over anyone that did not slow or yield to an emergency vehicle, which would would have been way more lucrative than your tickets.

Brother Buzzed is right on. A few years back, I was stopped for speeding in Racine County on Interstate 94. I was going to go to court and throw myself on the mercy of the court when lawyers started mailbombing me with offers to handle my case.

After telling my wife why (she was amused), I called one. They went to court on my behalf and did exactly what  Brother Buzzed described. My charge was reduced to illegal parking on Interstate 94. No points. No moving violation. Just a parking ticket.

[jficke13]

Brother Buzzed is right on. A few years back, I was stopped for speeding in Racine County on Interstate 94. I was going to go to court and throw myself on the mercy of the court when lawyers started mailbombing me with offers to handle my case.

After telling my wife why (she was amused), I called one. They went to court on my behalf and did exactly what  Brother Buzzed described. My charge was reduced to illegal parking on Interstate 94. No points. No moving violation. Just a parking ticket.

FWIW I handled a speeding ticket for my sister in law in Racine, speeding on the interstate changed to a parking ticket, no points, added about $200 in "court costs" to the tab. That's an example of a shakedown operation where you could have the entire College of Cardinals as witnesses to you doing nothing wrong and it wouldn't matter. They're just out for the money.

[Lighthouse 84]

Had the same thing happen to me in Manitowac Co.  My brother in law was able to get the charge changed to reckless misconduct, which he explained to me was the equivalent of mooning out the window as we drove through town.  No points, but they did collect the fines. 

In Illinois, I'd just go in and get court supervision and get the fine reduced. 

But I agree with the concept of getting a local lawyer.  It's key to be able to negotiate the deal with someone you know and appear before a judge who knows the lawyer.  It shouldn't be that way, but it is a homer type of court call.

[MU82]

I'd totally fight it but I don't know how Wis handles these. I fought a couple in Illinois, no lawyer, and won.

Whatever you decide to do, let us know how everything turns out. I'll be rooting for you.