MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: #UnleashSean on November 17, 2020, 09:26:47 AM
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Hi guys,
Today as I was driving home with a very heavy load in my truck I was sitting at an intersection waiting for the green light. I noticed in my tow mirrors that a cop was on his radio and looking at my truck.
I figured he would be pulling me over to inspect the safety of my load. No problem as I easily secured everything down with 3000lb straps.
He turned on his lights after we crossed the intersection, I signaled into the right lane and he followed. Definitely being pulled over for load inspection now I thought. We were in a 2 lane road on the main road in the town, no shoulder on the road. I have a 9 foot plow in front and a 1000lb load in the back, obviously not being able to stop anywhere on this road. I threw on my hazards, dropped to 15mph, signaled to the cop that I knew I was being pulled over and continued about 2 blocks to the nearest side road with a shoulder.
The police officer came to my window in a steam. Asked why I didn't stop right away. I responded with "Because of it being the busiest part of town and there being no shoulder". He then said that "he was the one who determined where safety resided" and asked why he was pulling me over. While I understand to never answer that question I told him that it was probably for a load inspection and that the cargo was going absolutely no where.
He ended up pulling me over for an improper display of license plate. (My real license plates were stolen two weeks prior and I received temporary paper plates instead) There was a storm a couple of days ago and apparently the temporary plate got ripped up pretty bad. The officer said he was unable to read it, when I looked it was ripped and curled from the rain, however it was still perfectly readable.
In the end the officer gave me three citations:
Improper display of License $80 fine 0 points on license(this one should be easily explainable and thrown away)
No insurance $120 fine 0 points (Insurance policy was on phone and I had no service at the time, when I go to court the officer assured me this would be legally thrown out when I can show proof of insurance dating back to today)
Failure to stop for an emergency vehicle. $250 fine, 4 points
Now I'm not overly concerned about 1 & 2. But #3 is something that does concern me. In my private drivers license they really hit on pulling over in a SAFE location. The location the officer wanted me to pull over was clearly very unsafe. I have taken pictures of my license plate, the intersection, where the officer wanted me to pull over and where I eventually pulled over. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed?
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I know this wasn't the advice you are looking for, but pro-tip on the insurance...
Just take a screen shot of your card and store it in your photos. It won't matter if you have service or not.
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I know this wasn't the advice you are looking for, but pro-tip on the insurance...
Just take a screen shot of your card and store it in your photos. It won't matter if you have service or not.
+1 I do this with every insurance card so I don't need to drag it everywhere.
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Wisconsin? Can you give the statute citation from the failure to stop ticket?
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Wisconsin
Ordinance 7.01
State statute 346.19(1)
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Take a video of the two block stretch. Necessity defense.
I am not sure what your sentence about the private drivers school meant, but can you get some type of statement from them about what exactly they teach drivers to do?
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Take a video of the two block stretch. Necessity defense.
I am not sure what your sentence about the private drivers school meant, but can you get some type of statement from them about what exactly they teach drivers to do?
This. Hopefully the judge will be familiar with that intersection and agree with you, but get photo/video evidence as well.
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Hi guys,
Today as I was driving home with a very heavy load in my truck I was sitting at an intersection waiting for the green light. I noticed in my tow mirrors that a cop was on his radio and looking at my truck.
I figured he would be pulling me over to inspect the safety of my load. No problem as I easily secured everything down with 3000lb straps.
He turned on his lights after we crossed the intersection, I signaled into the right lane and he followed. Definitely being pulled over for load inspection now I thought. We were in a 2 lane road on the main road in the town, no shoulder on the road. I have a 9 foot plow in front and a 1000lb load in the back, obviously not being able to stop anywhere on this road. I threw on my hazards, dropped to 15mph, signaled to the cop that I knew I was being pulled over and continued about 2 blocks to the nearest side road with a shoulder.
The police officer came to my window in a steam. Asked why I didn't stop right away. I responded with "Because of it being the busiest part of town and there being no shoulder". He then said that "he was the one who determined where safety resided" and asked why he was pulling me over. While I understand to never answer that question I told him that it was probably for a load inspection and that the cargo was going absolutely no where.
He ended up pulling me over for an improper display of license plate. (My real license plates were stolen two weeks prior and I received temporary paper plates instead) There was a storm a couple of days ago and apparently the temporary plate got ripped up pretty bad. The officer said he was unable to read it, when I looked it was ripped and curled from the rain, however it was still perfectly readable.
In the end the officer gave me three citations:
Improper display of License $80 fine 0 points on license(this one should be easily explainable and thrown away)
No insurance $120 fine 0 points (Insurance policy was on phone and I had no service at the time, when I go to court the officer assured me this would be legally thrown out when I can show proof of insurance dating back to today)
Failure to stop for an emergency vehicle. $250 fine, 4 points
Now I'm not overly concerned about 1 & 2. But #3 is something that does concern me. In my private drivers license they really hit on pulling over in a SAFE location. The location the officer wanted me to pull over was clearly very unsafe. I have taken pictures of my license plate, the intersection, where the officer wanted me to pull over and where I eventually pulled over. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed?
Yeah go to court, that cop is a bastard. Judge will toss all of those.
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If this was Illinois, I'd say go to court. You'd get everything thrown out.
Guy gives police officers a bad name.
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Yeah go to court, that cop is a bastard. Judge will toss all of those.
You’re right about the cop. He did this simply because he could and he was the poor sucker who happened to be on the road at the time. I would definitely file a complaint.
Not so sure it will be tossed. Judges always look to support the police in court first.
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"We'll waive the points, but just cant do anything about those fines."
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"We'll waive the points, but just cant do anything about those fines."
Gotta justify their existence somehow.
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1) Just put a copy of your insurance card in the glove compartment.
2) Fight it. Take photos & video as recommended.
Why fight? A number of years ago I got a ticket for parking in a handicap spot on an I-95 rest stop McDonald's parking lot. (It was post-bar close food visit.) If known I would not have parked there. I took issue because there was no wheelchair painted in the space. There was no sign in front of the space indicating it was handicap. There was a sign three spaces over that read "<--Handicap Parking". The arrow just pointed my direction. And the sign was partially obscured by weeping cherry tree branches. The cop wasn't going to budge. I pleaded innocent. I took plenty of photos and brought the photos and one of the friends who was with me to court and they threw it out. On a subsequent visit I noticed they painted a wheelchair, put up more signs and trimmed bushes.
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You already know the answer. Get a lawyer preferably one that does a lot of volume with the city/village and knows how the attorneys and judge work. This is a lawyer's bread and butter. They take a stack of different minor client cases and negotiate them rapidly. This screams like a small municipality that only cares about the money, so the attorneys/judge will decide you pay X amount for the municipal violation of pamphlet bombing. This takes your attorney literally about 5 minutes, costs you a couple hundred for the attorney, the final fine, and turns it from a driving offense to a municipal violation that typically does not even show up in CCAP.
Be careful with anyone that tells you to fight it out in court because it is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars in court fees plus the officer's hourly rate win or lose. Small municipalities often hire local attorneys as prosecutors that are paid on a percentage they bring in. If you are going to make them prosecute it, then you will pay. In Wisconsin, municipal judges do not even need a law degree and this is a civil matter, so you have to prove you are 100% innocent. You have your version and the cop has his.
Also, the cop was probably upset because you ruined his quota for the day by not pulling over where he wanted. His partner was probably setting up to pull over anyone that did not slow or yield to an emergency vehicle, which would would have been way more lucrative than your tickets.
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You already know the answer. Get a lawyer preferably one that does a lot of volume with the city/village and knows how the attorneys and judge work. This is a lawyer's bread and butter. They take a stack of different minor client cases and negotiate them rapidly. This screams like a small municipality that only cares about the money, so the attorneys/judge will decide you pay X amount for the municipal violation of pamphlet bombing. This takes your attorney literally about 5 minutes, costs you a couple hundred for the attorney, the final fine, and turns it from a driving offense to a municipal violation that typically does not even show up in CCAP.
Be careful with anyone that tells you to fight it out in court because it is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars in court fees plus the officer's hourly rate win or lose. Small municipalities often hire local attorneys as prosecutors that are paid on a percentage they bring in. If you are going to make them prosecute it, then you will pay. In Wisconsin, municipal judges do not even need a law degree and this is a civil matter, so you have to prove you are 100% innocent. You have your version and the cop has his.
Also, the cop was probably upset because you ruined his quota for the day by not pulling over where he wanted. His partner was probably setting up to pull over anyone that did not slow or yield to an emergency vehicle, which would would have been way more lucrative than your tickets.
I don't know about having to pay fees in traffic court. When I was young I drove too fast too often and got many speeding tickets. I always showed up for the court date and received probation or dismissal every time and never paid any fees above the fine and never had to pay for the officer's time, more often than not the officer didn't appear in court.
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346.19 What to do on approach of emergency vehicle.
(1) Upon the approach of any authorized emergency vehicle giving audible signal by siren the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately drive such vehicle to a position as near as possible and parallel to the right curb or the right-hand edge of the shoulder of the roadway, clear of any intersection and, unless otherwise directed by a traffic officer, shall stop and remain standing in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed.
Getting real stickler-ish for the language of the statute, "immediately" isn't qualified by "as one may do so safely" or any similar language.
Not sure about the ordinance (not sure what municipality you were in), but Waukesha's 7.01 is just "we're adopting the state traffic laws" so you're main argument is probably going to center on the above.
You can probably argue that 346.19(2) imposes a duty on the *officer* to ensure that the stop is conducted in a safe and prudent manner.
(2) This section does not relieve the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard under the circumstances for the safety of all persons using the highway.
"Given the narrow nature of the roadway, the lack of a shoulder, and the size of my vehicle, my load, and my plow blade (all of which I have demonstrated with photographs taken by myself and previously presented to the court as exhibits), it was imprudent and unsafe to stop in the location where the officer first activated his lights. I took reasonable steps to demonstrate my compliance with the directive to yield to the traffic stop by slowing, and activating my hazard lights, and proceeded to the first place where I could stop in such a way as to not endanger the safety of the officer and any other traffic. Because Wisconsin Statute 346.19(2) clearly contemplates the safety of all users of the roadway when an emergency vehicle uses its lights to effectuate drivers to yield to their directive, it was necessary for me to proceed as I did in order to ensure that the stop could occur in a safe manner for all participants."
Honestly, it's up to how corrupt the cops and muni judge is. If they see their role as arbiters of justice, I say you've got a shot. If they see their role as exacting revenue from the peasants unfortunate enough to come beneath their notice, then you could be represented by the ghosts of RBG, William Rehnquist, and Jesus Christ and it wouldn't really matter.
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I don't know about having to pay fees in traffic court. When I was young I drove too fast too often and got many speeding tickets. I always showed up for the court date and received probation or dismissal every time and never paid any fees above the fine and never had to pay for the officer's time, more often than not the officer didn't appear in court.
Based on the situation, this sounds like a small affluent community think Elm Grove, Bayside, Summit, etc. They probably do not have a traffic court, so you show up like the ticket says without a lawyer. You stand before the judge and anything can happen. The judge could ask for your side of the story and decide to offer probation or dismiss like in your experience. They could also say no to lowering the charges, or they could simply ask you how you plea without your story. If you plea not guilty or want to get it lowered with say the driving points dropped, then a court date is set and you have to pay for the court case regardless of outcome. Anything can happen in small town courts as it is. With how strained municipalities budgets are due to COVID, I doubt they are dismissing any revenue easily; especially from someone who may not even live in the community.
If it were me, I would pay a couple hundred dollars (don't know the actual rate for the area) to handle it correct from the start. Again, you want to find an attorney that handles a lot of business in that community. An "A+" expensive lawyer from Milwaukee might not be nearly effective as the local attorney that goes to the same church as the judge and interacts with him daily. The good news is this a blip on the radar, so if you try DIYing it the worst that happens is some points and an uptick in your insurance.
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I would definitely agree that a local lawyer is much better than one who doesn’t practice there.
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I would definitely agree that a local lawyer is much better than one who doesn’t practice there.
Vincent Gambino would disagree...
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Vincent Gambino would disagree...
That's different, he's family.
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Vincent Gambino would disagree...
What is a Ute?
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You already know the answer. Get a lawyer preferably one that does a lot of volume with the city/village and knows how the attorneys and judge work. This is a lawyer's bread and butter. They take a stack of different minor client cases and negotiate them rapidly. This screams like a small municipality that only cares about the money, so the attorneys/judge will decide you pay X amount for the municipal violation of pamphlet bombing. This takes your attorney literally about 5 minutes, costs you a couple hundred for the attorney, the final fine, and turns it from a driving offense to a municipal violation that typically does not even show up in CCAP.
Be careful with anyone that tells you to fight it out in court because it is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars in court fees plus the officer's hourly rate win or lose. Small municipalities often hire local attorneys as prosecutors that are paid on a percentage they bring in. If you are going to make them prosecute it, then you will pay. In Wisconsin, municipal judges do not even need a law degree and this is a civil matter, so you have to prove you are 100% innocent. You have your version and the cop has his.
Also, the cop was probably upset because you ruined his quota for the day by not pulling over where he wanted. His partner was probably setting up to pull over anyone that did not slow or yield to an emergency vehicle, which would would have been way more lucrative than your tickets.
Brother Buzzed is right on. A few years back, I was stopped for speeding in Racine County on Interstate 94. I was going to go to court and throw myself on the mercy of the court when lawyers started mailbombing me with offers to handle my case.
After telling my wife why (she was amused), I called one. They went to court on my behalf and did exactly what Brother Buzzed described. My charge was reduced to illegal parking on Interstate 94. No points. No moving violation. Just a parking ticket.
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Brother Buzzed is right on. A few years back, I was stopped for speeding in Racine County on Interstate 94. I was going to go to court and throw myself on the mercy of the court when lawyers started mailbombing me with offers to handle my case.
After telling my wife why (she was amused), I called one. They went to court on my behalf and did exactly what Brother Buzzed described. My charge was reduced to illegal parking on Interstate 94. No points. No moving violation. Just a parking ticket.
FWIW I handled a speeding ticket for my sister in law in Racine, speeding on the interstate changed to a parking ticket, no points, added about $200 in "court costs" to the tab. That's an example of a shakedown operation where you could have the entire College of Cardinals as witnesses to you doing nothing wrong and it wouldn't matter. They're just out for the money.
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Had the same thing happen to me in Manitowac Co. My brother in law was able to get the charge changed to reckless misconduct, which he explained to me was the equivalent of mooning out the window as we drove through town. No points, but they did collect the fines.
In Illinois, I'd just go in and get court supervision and get the fine reduced.
But I agree with the concept of getting a local lawyer. It's key to be able to negotiate the deal with someone you know and appear before a judge who knows the lawyer. It shouldn't be that way, but it is a homer type of court call.
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I'd totally fight it but I don't know how Wis handles these. I fought a couple in Illinois, no lawyer, and won.
Whatever you decide to do, let us know how everything turns out. I'll be rooting for you.
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Well, you lived to tell this this story. So, obviously you're white and privileged, or simply did what the officer told you to do. You'll get your day in court. Life's lessons, hey?
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Well, you lived to tell this this story. So, obviously you're white and privileged, or simply did what the officer told you to do. You'll get your day in court. Life's lessons, hey?
Thank you for such a relevant and insightful comment. I'm sure that completely answers OP's questions
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Well, you lived to tell this this story. So, obviously you're white and privileged, or simply did what the officer told you to do. You'll get your day in court. Life's lessons, hey?
I guess next time I'll stop in the most right spot I can in an active lane and will probably be cited for putting the officers life in danger.... Sigh.
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FWIW I handled a speeding ticket for my sister in law in Racine, speeding on the interstate changed to a parking ticket, no points, added about $200 in "court costs" to the tab. That's an example of a shakedown operation where you could have the entire College of Cardinals as witnesses to you doing nothing wrong and it wouldn't matter. They're just out for the money.
Yep that's what I'm afraid of right now. It just annoys me that places like Sussex would do this to honest people. Gives a bad name for the town and the sheriff department.
I'd totally fight it but I don't know how Wis handles these. I fought a couple in Illinois, no lawyer, and won.
Whatever you decide to do, let us know how everything turns out. I'll be rooting for you.
Thanks bud! After talking with a few lawyers the cost of them seems to be even more then the citations, so I guess going in and arguing them myself is probably the best bet.
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Thanks bud! After talking with a few lawyers the cost of them seems to be even more then the citations, so I guess going in and arguing them myself is probably the best bet.
As others have said, go in with some concrete evidence. Good luck!
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Yep that's what I'm afraid of right now. It just annoys me that places like Sussex would do this to honest people. Gives a bad name for the town and the sheriff department.
Thanks bud! After talking with a few lawyers the cost of them seems to be even more then the citations, so I guess going in and arguing them myself is probably the best bet.
i'm one of the most "pro-cop" guys here. know a lot of them, but this sounds like an unforced error and/or rookie mistake. not the kind of stop that would inspire "atta boys" in the locker room. only thing i can think is maybe they had some kind of "be on the look out" thing and this deputy dog thought he was pulling over john dillinger
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i'm one of the most "pro-cop" guys here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know of a single Scooper who is "anti-cop." Many of us simply hold them to a high standard of, you know, not terrorizing people.
but this sounds like an unforced error and/or rookie mistake. not the kind of stop that would inspire "atta boys" in the locker room. only thing i can think is maybe they had some kind of "be on the look out" thing and this deputy dog thought he was pulling over john dillinger
careful, rocketman, that sounds kinda anti-cop.
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For reference, here is the reason for the initial stop ::)
(https://i.imgur.com/Gx5Sxu5.jpg)
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know of a single Scooper who is "anti-cop." Many of us simply hold them to a high standard of, you know, not terrorizing people.
careful, rocketman, that sounds kinda anti-cop.
nope, just being honest and "nonpartisan" too many good cops to catch a bad name for actions of a few...
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Yep that's what I'm afraid of right now. It just annoys me that places like Sussex would do this to honest people. Gives a bad name for the town and the sheriff department.
Thanks bud! After talking with a few lawyers the cost of them seems to be even more then the citations, so I guess going in and arguing them myself is probably the best bet.
Sussex, WI? They nail delivery drivers ALL the time in that town for petty violations. Our company specifically routes drivers a certain way to avoid fines. I haven’t been in town in years but it used to be a speed trap. Not remotely surprised you got this ticket in Sussex.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know of a single Scooper who is "anti-cop."
Mike
Good one! We always can use a good laugh!!
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Mike
Good one! We always can use a good laugh!!
Tony:
Please define "anti-cop," and then show examples of Scoopers who are.
For example, I don't think police officers should do to people what they did to George Floyd, and I know a very small minority of police officers do those kinds of things. Am I anti-cop?
You don't think Black folks should riot like a very small minority of them did after what happened to George Floyd. Are you "anti-Black"?
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Tony:
Please define "anti-cop," and then show examples of Scoopers who are.
For example, I don't think police officers should do to people what they did to George Floyd, and I know a very small minority of police officers do those kinds of things. Am I anti-cop?
You don't think Black folks should riot like a very small minority of them did after what happened to George Floyd. Are you "anti-Black"?
“A very small minority of (fill in the blank - cops, priests, journalists, financial advisors, the entire human race) are not good people” is nothing more than a statement of obvious fact - not anti anything.
Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I think the vitriol against cops here went a whole lot further than mild “a few bad apples” criticism.
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“A very small minority of (fill in the blank - cops, priests, journalists, financial advisors, the entire human race) are not good people” is nothing more than a statement of obvious fact - not anti anything.
Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I think the vitriol against cops here went a whole lot further than mild “a few bad apples” criticism.
There is plenty of source material for you to comb through.
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This has nothing to do with a good cop or bad cop. The cop wrote three petty tickets without giving him a break, but they were legit tickets. If he fights it, then he will be hoping the judge gives him a break. You have to think of it in context. 99% of a beat cop's time in a small town is doing nothing waiting for a call. Having a police force is expensive, so a lot of municipalities utilize cops to generate revenue to offset that cost. You can actually see how much the municipality anticipates in their budget, such as Milwaukee that has a line for parking enforcement. That is where actual or implied quotas come in. Unless that cop is a pure A-hole, he wrote the tickets to hit his quota and based on his experience he anticipates the judge collecting the revenue for at least ticket 1 and 3. His break to you was telling you 2 for insurance will get tossed once you show proof in court.
An old timer Milwaukee cop once put it in perspective for me. The only ticket he ever got was when he was in uniform. He left straight from work to go deer hunting up north. Way up north about 5am he got pulled over by state trooper for going 4 miles over. He was in uniform and the state trooper literally talked to him like they were brothers. At the end of their conversation state patrol still handed him the ticket. He wasn't mad though he didn't catch a break because he knew how hard the state trooper's job was. Where he was, the state trooper would see very few cars a day and he had a quota to hit. Since he was a state trooper if he didn't hit his quota or wasn't performing, then he was at risk of getting moved anywhere in the state. Having a wife and kids in school then getting stationed 5 hours away in Platteville makes it pretty tough to even give other cops a break.
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“A very small minority of (fill in the blank - cops, priests, journalists, financial advisors, the entire human race) are not good people” is nothing more than a statement of obvious fact - not anti anything.
Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I think the vitriol against cops here went a whole lot further than mild “a few bad apples” criticism.
I happen to believe (and I think statistics show) that there is systemic racism in policing. Again, that does not mean that I am "anti-cop" or that I am not "pro-cop." It means that I think there is a need for some changes in how we do policing in America. Those who think things are just peachy, well, they are free to disagree.
BTW, there is systemic racism in education, too, and I am definitely "pro-teacher" and "pro-education."
Of course, we wouldn't be discussing this at all here if our resident dentists hadn't sought to politicize this thread.
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Just the facts, Nads, just the facts, hey?
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Just the facts, Nads, just the facts, hey?
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Just the facts, Nads, just the facts, hey?
Yes, just the facts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/10/us/sterling-brown-milwaukee-settlement-spt/index.html
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Just the facts, Nads, just the facts, hey?
Yep. Just the facts that being Black can be a death sentence if the wrong cops are on the case.
Dunno why you would disagree with that ... unless you're "anti-Black."
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I see y'all just want a society without rules. That chaos should end well, aina?
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I see y'all just want a society without rules. That chaos should end well, aina?
Yes. That's what all of us want. No rules at all.
For example, it's A-OK for a presidential candidate to use campaign finance money to buy the silence of women he's cheated on his wife with.
And if George Floyd had the temerity to be Black, he deserved to have the life choked out of him by a noble, courageous police officer while three of his dedicated, honorable co-workers stood by watching. Cuz there was no chaos at all there.
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This has nothing to do with a good cop or bad cop. The cop wrote three petty tickets without giving him a break, but they were legit tickets. If he fights it, then he will be hoping the judge gives him a break. You have to think of it in context. 99% of a beat cop's time in a small town is doing nothing waiting for a call. Having a police force is expensive, so a lot of municipalities utilize cops to generate revenue to offset that cost. You can actually see how much the municipality anticipates in their budget, such as Milwaukee that has a line for parking enforcement. That is where actual or implied quotas come in. Unless that cop is a pure A-hole, he wrote the tickets to hit his quota and based on his experience he anticipates the judge collecting the revenue for at least ticket 1 and 3. His break to you was telling you 2 for insurance will get tossed once you show proof in court.
An old timer Milwaukee cop once put it in perspective for me. The only ticket he ever got was when he was in uniform. He left straight from work to go deer hunting up north. Way up north about 5am he got pulled over by state trooper for going 4 miles over. He was in uniform and the state trooper literally talked to him like they were brothers. At the end of their conversation state patrol still handed him the ticket. He wasn't mad though he didn't catch a break because he knew how hard the state trooper's job was. Where he was, the state trooper would see very few cars a day and he had a quota to hit. Since he was a state trooper if he didn't hit his quota or wasn't performing, then he was at risk of getting moved anywhere in the state. Having a wife and kids in school then getting stationed 5 hours away in Platteville makes it pretty tough to even give other cops a break.
If a police officer's only reason for existence is to write enough petty tickets to pay for his existence... maybe that police officer's job shouldn't exist.
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I see y'all just want a society without rules. That chaos should end well, aina?
While I'm sure there are some anarchists out there, 99.9% of people want a society with rules. We should all want those rules to be just and to be enforced correctly and equitably no matter who is doing the enforcing and who is doing the rulebreaking, aina?
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If a police officer's only reason for existence is to write enough petty tickets to pay for his existence... maybe that police officer's job shouldn't exist.
I would say if there are ticket quotas then the quota should be eliminated.
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You have to define what you want from your police officers. In my suburb in Chicago as well as in most suburban communities, the police officers are municipal revenue officers and security guards. They take their lead from what Village Boards and City Councils want them to do.
As a youngster, when I lived in Nashville, there was a town south of the city, Smyrna, that was a notorious speed trap. Cops worked U.S. 41 (before Interstate 24) like it was a community piggy bank. I doubt Smyrna residents ever paid a property tax until Mayor Sam Ridley (aka, Ridley Chevrolet) went to prison for malfeasance in office. It's what Smyrna wanted and, for the rest of us, building Interstate 24 was a God-send!
Municipal Revenue Officers often make lousy police officers when serious crime hits. The Browns Chicken Massacre in Palatine illustrates that very well. Fortunately, the crime lab kept DNA samples, which made it possible to solve. But, geez, the jurisdictional messes there!
When I was at MU, there was a old-timey cop at Sixth and Wisconsin whose job was to yell at jaywalkers, most of whom were Marquette students. God forbid that he faced anything more serious than some long-haired hippie type pinko freak crossing 6th Street against the light! And I won't even do anything more than bring up the chief goon, Harold Brier.
Bottom line is there are many honorable, caring police officers. My son is planning to go into law enforcement next year after he finishes his BA at Christmas. He'll be a great cop. But for every great cop, there's a small fraction of the force who are jerks and let their power go to their heads.
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Didant no der wuz a Christmas University. Wear iz dat located, hey?
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I would say if there are ticket quotas then the quota should be eliminated.
I had a co-worker that was a former suburban cop. He got reprimanded for not meeting DUI ticket quota. When he told his supervisor that he simply didn't see many people who appeared to be driving impaired, he was told he should hang out near the one bar in town and pull over people as they drove out of the parking lot.
He quit soon afterwards.
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You have to define what you want from your police officers. In my suburb in Chicago as well as in most suburban communities, the police officers are municipal revenue officers and security guards. They take their lead from what Village Boards and City Councils want them to do.
As a youngster, when I lived in Nashville, there was a town south of the city, Smyrna, that was a notorious speed trap. Cops worked U.S. 41 (before Interstate 24) like it was a community piggy bank. I doubt Smyrna residents ever paid a property tax until Mayor Sam Ridley (aka, Ridley Chevrolet) went to prison for malfeasance in office. It's what Smyrna wanted and, for the rest of us, building Interstate 24 was a God-send!
Municipal Revenue Officers often make lousy police officers when serious crime hits. The Browns Chicken Massacre in Palatine illustrates that very well. Fortunately, the crime lab kept DNA samples, which made it possible to solve. But, geez, the jurisdictional messes there!
When I was at MU, there was a old-timey cop at Sixth and Wisconsin whose job was to yell at jaywalkers, most of whom were Marquette students. God forbid that he faced anything more serious than some long-haired hippie type pinko freak crossing 6th Street against the light! And I won't even do anything more than bring up the chief goon, Harold Brier.
Bottom line is there are many honorable, caring police officers. My son is planning to go into law enforcement next year after he finishes his BA at Christmas. He'll be a great cop. But for every great cop, there's a small fraction of the force who are jerks and let their power go to their heads.
Then those officers' positions should be eliminated. They are adding nothing to the public good by any definition, and probably subtracting from it. By the sounds of it, those municipalities could be served by turning their policing duties over to the county sheriff's department.
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I had a co-worker that was a former suburban cop. He got reprimanded for not meeting DUI ticket quota. When he told his supervisor that he simply didn't see many people who appeared to be driving impaired, he was told he should hang out near the one bar in town and pull over people as they drove out of the parking lot.
He quit soon afterwards.
I had an idiot officer in Libertyville pull me over one night under similar circumstances. My wife, daughter and the daughter's boyfriend were all in the car and we were driving to the train station to get the car we had parked there. When the officer pulled me over and approached my car, I asked "what is this about?" He was a 21-year-old fresh out of the academy d-bag and said, "you'll know in time..."
He shined a light in my eyes, sniffed the car and collected my license and insurance card. He then did a wants and warrants and saw I was clean. So he came over to me and I challenged the d-bag's probable cause to stop me. The d-bag said he saw me cross a solid white line while turning right and therefore thought I might be driving while impaired. I challenged the d-bag to show me where the line was (it was winter and the line was washed out of the pavement because of salt on the road) and demonstrate how I violated the law. I challenged him to demonstrate what happened and he handed me my license and said, "you appear coherent and therefore, I'm going to let you go." He saw no evidence of alcohol, I spoke in complete sentences and there was no scent of alcohol in the car.
The guy was a complete a-hole. Violated rights left and right. I was prepared to go to the chief, but my good friend and attorney said, "let it go... you can't win and you may have that cop for an enemy." I took his advice.
My son was picked up by the same force for going 55 in a 35 zone right around the corner from our house. Given what he was driving (a Buick Enclave) and the distance from where he turned right until where he was clocked (about 150 feet), there is no physical way my son could have reached 55 even if he was driving a Maserati. The officer openly lied and both he and my son knew it. But the system is so rigged that we had no chance in court. I knew the judge so we got my son probation but had to pay $450 in court costs.
As big a d-bag as these guys were, nothing matched the complete douchiness of the Illinois State Police. Calling those guys a-holes is a complete and total insult to a-holes everywhere!
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Illinois st police tricked me into a roadside guilty plea when I was 18 for speeding in a construction zone coming back from Beloit, I had started picking up speed after the construction was clearly done but there were some cones from earlier work. He said "look I don't want to take your license from you, you need that. So just sign right here, it basically says I stopped you so you can get your license back" of course I signed as it was my first traffic stop ever. This eventually led to my license being suspended. Those guys are a$$es
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Illinois st police tricked me into a roadside guilty plea when I was 18 for speeding in a construction zone coming back from Beloit, I had started picking up speed after the construction was clearly done but there were some cones from earlier work. He said "look I don't want to take your license from you, you need that. So just sign right here, it basically says I stopped you so you can get your license back" of course I signed as it was my first traffic stop ever. This eventually led to my license being suspended. Those guys are a$$es
The good old days of WI taking licenses from Illinois kids. Ha!
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The good old days of WI taking licenses from Illinois kids. Ha!
Sorry for not specifying, I was 18 coming from Beloit to Chicago so it was IL state police, to take the Amtrak up to MU as I was not allowed to have a car my first two years and my GF at the time went to Beloit (weirdest and lamest college I've ever been to)
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Then those officers' positions should be eliminated. They are adding nothing to the public good by any definition, and probably subtracting from it. By the sounds of it, those municipalities could be served by turning their policing duties over to the county sheriff's department.
It all stems from small town residents that want a police force. To have full time police coverage is expensive, especially when you they only have a few thousand residents. So the elected officials have to decide whether to raise taxes high enough as is to cover it, or offset some of it by using the cops time to generate revenue. Typically they choose the latter because it shows cops are working and they can generate revenue from outside the community. Now where it gets really fun is when the municipality earns the reputation of strict law enforcement. We already heard one Scooper that avoids Sussex because the cops are known to be ticket happy. Sussex cops will claim that crime is low because criminals know to stay out of the community, but it is self-reinforcing. Who's to say that crime is just low in general. It is a chicken and the egg debate. I agree with you, most of these municipalities would be just as safe being served by the county sheriff, but the residents want a police force. A few fire departments, Northshore in WI and Lincolnshire-Riverwoods-Bannockburn in IL have moved away from this model, but people like having their own police.
On another note, I am always impressed with IL cops generating revenue. I still find it funny that a number of suburbs have a whole division and special vehicles for truck enforcement. They are never idle, always have someone pulled over. Also, can't believe how they can run seat belt checkpoints during rush hour and DUI checkpoints. I don't know how people stand for that, but I tip my hat as it is truly impressive.
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It all stems from small town residents that want a police force. To have full time police coverage is expensive, especially when you they only have a few thousand residents. So the elected officials have to decide whether to raise taxes high enough as is to cover it, or offset some of it by using the cops time to generate revenue. Typically they choose the latter because it shows cops are working and they can generate revenue from outside the community. Now where it gets really fun is when the municipality earns the reputation of strict law enforcement. We already heard one Scooper that avoids Sussex because the cops are known to be ticket happy. Sussex cops will claim that crime is low because criminals know to stay out of the community, but it is self-reinforcing. Who's to say that crime is just low in general. It is a chicken and the egg debate. I agree with you, most of these municipalities would be just as safe being served by the county sheriff, but the residents want a police force. A few fire departments, Northshore in WI and Lincolnshire-Riverwoods-Bannockburn in IL have moved away from this model, but people like having their own police.
On another note, I am always impressed with IL cops generating revenue. I still find it funny that a number of suburbs have a whole division and special vehicles for truck enforcement. They are never idle, always have someone pulled over. Also, can't believe how they can run seat belt checkpoints during rush hour and DUI checkpoints. I don't know how people stand for that, but I tip my hat as it is truly impressive.
The whims of a citizenry should not be sufficient to create unsustainable positions, especially unsustainable positions that are reliant on grinding other citizens beneath their jackboots for their very existence.
Clearly the citizens of the Sussexs of the world are able to create police forces that exist only to exploit people unfortunate enough to wander, but none of that justifies the practice. Those police forces, obviously, have the right exist, but none of them should.
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It all stems from small town residents that want a police force. To have full time police coverage is expensive, especially when you they only have a few thousand residents. So the elected officials have to decide whether to raise taxes high enough as is to cover it, or offset some of it by using the cops time to generate revenue. Typically they choose the latter because it shows cops are working and they can generate revenue from outside the community. Now where it gets really fun is when the municipality earns the reputation of strict law enforcement. We already heard one Scooper that avoids Sussex because the cops are known to be ticket happy. Sussex cops will claim that crime is low because criminals know to stay out of the community, but it is self-reinforcing. Who's to say that crime is just low in general. It is a chicken and the egg debate. I agree with you, most of these municipalities would be just as safe being served by the county sheriff, but the residents want a police force. A few fire departments, Northshore in WI and Lincolnshire-Riverwoods-Bannockburn in IL have moved away from this model, but people like having their own police.
On another note, I am always impressed with IL cops generating revenue. I still find it funny that a number of suburbs have a whole division and special vehicles for truck enforcement. They are never idle, always have someone pulled over. Also, can't believe how they can run seat belt checkpoints during rush hour and DUI checkpoints. I don't know how people stand for that, but I tip my hat as it is truly impressive.
So, what's your badge number, officer? ;D
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I had a co-worker that was a former suburban cop. He got reprimanded for not meeting DUI ticket quota. When he told his supervisor that he simply didn't see many people who appeared to be driving impaired, he was told he should hang out near the one bar in town and pull over people as they drove out of the parking lot.
He quit soon afterwards.
I respect the hell out of that officer, and the supervisors who pushed him should be fired.
I have a friend who quit drinking in the mid-90s. He went to Phoenix several years later and was pulled over by a cop. He didn't think he had done anything wrong. The cop asked for license and registration and went back to his car. After checking out my friend and apparently finding nothing, the cop asked my friend if he had been drinking. My friend asked, "No sir, I have not had a drink since xxxxx (rattling off the exact date he had stopped)." The cop asked if he would be willing to take a sobriety test. My friend said OK and was asked to walk a straight line, touch his nose and blow into a tube. After all of this, the cop finally said, "OK, you are cleared, and free to go." My friend said, "I told you I haven't had a drink since (repeating the date). I'm curious - did I do something wrong that would have suggested that I needed to be tested like that?" And the cop said, "No, we are just doing random DUI checks, and you just happened to be the xxxxth car. It was your turn. You're lucky you're sober. Have a nice day."
My friend called me that night to tell me what had happened. During our conversation, he said: "There might have been 10 drunk drivers who were driving erratically but they got away with it because while they were swerving all over the road, that cop spent nearly an hour hassling a sober driver."
As in your example, I don't really blame the cop there. Obviously, the decision to do those checks came from over his head.
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An update to my truck.
Truck was stolen from the repair shop sometime this weekend. They used to to steal atms. Police now have custody of truck but refuse to hand it over for several weeks to months. Won't tell me the extent of the damage.
2020 has been great!
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An update to my truck.
Truck was stolen from the repair shop sometime this weekend. They used to to steal atms. Police now have custody of truck but refuse to hand it over for several weeks to months. Won't tell me the extent of the damage.
2020 has been great!
Wow, dude. That is nuts.
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An update to my truck.
Truck was stolen from the repair shop sometime this weekend. They used to to steal atms. Police now have custody of truck but refuse to hand it over for several weeks to months. Won't tell me the extent of the damage.
2020 has been great!
If they haven't offered already, the repair shop's insurance should be covering this - including a rental until you get your vehicle back.
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An update to my truck.
Truck was stolen from the repair shop sometime this weekend. They used to to steal atms. Police now have custody of truck but refuse to hand it over for several weeks to months. Won't tell me the extent of the damage.
2020 has been great!
You’re being too nice to the police. Hire a lawyer.
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I used to take the train from Harvard into Chicago every day for work. In Harvard you pay for a spot in the parking lot which is good until midnight. One day we had to work an unexpected all-nighter so I called Harvard PD to explain my situation and inform them I would not be back by midnight but could stop by the police department the next day to pay for my parking space or give them my credit card over the phone. They had none of it and informed me I would be getting a ticket.
I essentially called a ticket in on myself for attempting to do the right thing.
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An update to my truck.
Truck was stolen from the repair shop sometime this weekend. They used to to steal atms. Police now have custody of truck but refuse to hand it over for several weeks to months. Won't tell me the extent of the damage.
2020 has been great!
Effen 2020.
Hang in there!
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You’re being too nice to the police. Hire a lawyer.
Another update:
Picking up the truck today. After a lawyer call (pro Bono) a detective called me about 10 minutes later and told me they moved the case to the front and were dusting for prints.
Quite a bit of damage done. Called my insurance and will let them handle with the repair shop.
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Another update:
Picking up the truck today. After a lawyer call (pro Bono) a detective called me about 10 minutes later and told me they moved the case to the front and were dusting for prints.
Quite a bit of damage done. Called my insurance and will let them handle with the repair shop.
That's why I said to call a lawyer. These things are simply cops thinking they are the final authority. Power plays.
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Now that this has veered away from help on the initial situation, it reminds me of the steep learning curve I had living with a car in Chicago for a decade, and only the last 3-4 years I had a garage spot.
My first year there, I parked a few streets from my apartment in Lincoln Park. Besides the street cleaning tickets which were an annoying idiot tax on me learning the cadence, I once got a ticket for no front plates...while parked on a street. I didn't have the front plates...because when I registered my car in Illinois, the state only sent me 1. I corresponded with them, got an additional plate sent, but the ticket wouldn't be overturned because the judge told me..."you should not have placed a single plate on your vehicle, regardless of how many you received"...umm what? Better yet, my friend's GF still had Ohio plates, and just a rear license plate to boot. She was parked on the same street but didnt get a ticket cause she had out of state plates.
Then, once I had plates, the renewal fun began. In the 5 years I renewed my plates before moving to a garage, despite never being late, I received my sticker before the end of the grace period...once. Not before the Aug 31 end of period, but the end of September month grace period. So naturally I had to fight countless expired sticker tickets. Fortunately, those were very easy and required just a proof of purchase mail in. But my favorite was getting 2 of them while my car was parked at ORD for a few days on a trip (im convinced ORD is City of Chicago property solely to extract ticket revenue from parked cars in the lots). A close second would be parking my car on a Friday night, returning Sunday morning and finding 6 tickets. 3 for no renewal sticker, and 3 for the outdated city sticker which also never came. Im pretty sure the parking officer sprinted to my car at the start of each shift to punch it in.
But the best lesson I ever got was NEVER pay a written ticket before receiving it in the mail. I moved into a townhouse with some buddies in Old Town right near Declans/Plum Market. We had 3 cars between us so we cycled between garage use. I parked at night and didnt realize my bumper was about 6 inches past the curb of a driveway. This driveway was always blocked and actually had a gate with tons of debris/bins on both sides of it. For whatever reason, the resident that night at 930 decided to pull out their giant rusted Grand Waggoner. The sliver of bumper past the curb made the irate and they called the police who knocked on my door after running my plates. The cop was clearly exceedingly grumpy about having to deal with something so trivial. I went and moved my car as the old A**hole screamed at me about millennial disrespect and demanded that my car should be booted until i was towed. I returned to my apartment to find the cop walking away and saying my ticket was in the mailbox. I didn't pay the handwritten ticket cause I was pissed off and figured I would wait the absolute longest amount possible...well the printed ticket never came. Searched my plates in the system and found no record there. Asked my former uncle (damn divorces ;D) who was a retired CPD captain and he said "oh you did the right thing. Lot of the old guys don't bother putting minor stuff in the computer if they already wrote it down. They hope people just comply, its laziness". Followed that for 1 other parking ticket and a "no right turn on red" from a fairly hidden sign over the next few years with the same result.
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Now that this has veered away from help on the initial situation, it reminds me of the steep learning curve I had living with a car in Chicago for a decade, and only the last 3-4 years I had a garage spot.
My first year there, I parked a few streets from my apartment in Lincoln Park. Besides the street cleaning tickets which were an annoying idiot tax on me learning the cadence, I once got a ticket for no front plates...while parked on a street. I didn't have the front plates...because when I registered my car in Illinois, the state only sent me 1. I corresponded with them, got an additional plate sent, but the ticket wouldn't be overturned because the judge told me..."you should not have placed a single plate on your vehicle, regardless of how many you received"...umm what? Better yet, my friend's GF still had Ohio plates, and just a rear license plate to boot. She was parked on the same street but didnt get a ticket cause she had out of state plates.
Then, once I had plates, the renewal fun began. In the 5 years I renewed my plates before moving to a garage, despite never being late, I received my sticker before the end of the grace period...once. Not before the Aug 31 end of period, but the end of September month grace period. So naturally I had to fight countless expired sticker tickets. Fortunately, those were very easy and required just a proof of purchase mail in. But my favorite was getting 2 of them while my car was parked at ORD for a few days on a trip (im convinced ORD is City of Chicago property solely to extract ticket revenue from parked cars in the lots). A close second would be parking my car on a Friday night, returning Sunday morning and finding 6 tickets. 3 for no renewal sticker, and 3 for the outdated city sticker which also never came. Im pretty sure the parking officer sprinted to my car at the start of each shift to punch it in.
But the best lesson I ever got was NEVER pay a written ticket before receiving it in the mail. I moved into a townhouse with some buddies in Old Town right near Declans/Plum Market. We had 3 cars between us so we cycled between garage use. I parked at night and didnt realize my bumper was about 6 inches past the curb of a driveway. This driveway was always blocked and actually had a gate with tons of debris/bins on both sides of it. For whatever reason, the resident that night at 930 decided to pull out their giant rusted Grand Waggoner. The sliver of bumper past the curb made the irate and they called the police who knocked on my door after running my plates. The cop was clearly exceedingly grumpy about having to deal with something so trivial. I went and moved my car as the old A**hole screamed at me about millennial disrespect and demanded that my car should be booted until i was towed. I returned to my apartment to find the cop walking away and saying my ticket was in the mailbox. I didn't pay the handwritten ticket cause I was pissed off and figured I would wait the absolute longest amount possible...well the printed ticket never came. Searched my plates in the system and found no record there. Asked my former uncle (damn divorces ;D) who was a retired CPD captain and he said "oh you did the right thing. Lot of the old guys don't bother putting minor stuff in the computer if they already wrote it down. They hope people just comply, its laziness". Followed that for 1 other parking ticket and a "no right turn on red" from a fairly hidden sign over the next few years with the same result.
(https://pics.me.me/thumb_i-aint-reading-all-that-im-happy-for-u-tho-66840228.png)
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After the past few months I believe I'm firmly in the camp of... police should be protecting the public, not looking to duck the public.
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Didant no der wuz a Christmas University. Wear iz dat located, hey?
Since I’ve asked twice how old you are without a response I can only assume that you’re an “adult.” Maybe 55+. That leads to my next two questions: 1) is typing like this a Midwest thing and 2) was there a time when typing phonetically (in Cheesehead dialect) was considered funny and/or creative?
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Since I’ve asked twice how old you are without a response I can only assume that you’re an “adult.” Maybe 55+. That leads to my next two questions: 1) is typing like this a Midwest thing and 2) was there a time when typing phonetically (in Cheesehead dialect) was considered funny and/or creative?
Nah, it's just a "he's weird AF thing."
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I think Goose or some other poser who knows him once posted that if you pm him he'll tell you why he writes that way.
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I think Goose or someone once posted that if you pm him he'll tell you why he writes that way.
It’s how patients sound when he’s having a conversation with them, because all dentists want to small talk while checking the work of the dental hygienists.
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I think Goose or some other poser who knows him once posted that if you pm him he'll tell you why he writes that way.
He's actually posted it himself multiple times. Look up his posting history. Basically he thinks we're all too stupid for him to type normally.
Clearly...that's the issue.
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It’s how he gets out of traffic tickets...that and he unbuttons his shirt to show some breasticle, works every ;D ;D
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He's actually posted it himself multiple times. Look up his posting history. Basically he thinks we're all too stupid for him to type normally.
Clearly...that's the issue.
You know better
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You know better
I actually don't. Could you find his explanation and point me to it. That's the cliff notes of what I remember reading, but I can't find it now.
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Rocky
I don’t think 4ever thinks everyone on here is too stupid, just a dozen or so would be my guess.
Jables
Not that I really care, but what difference does 4evers age make? Also, he has posted many times recounting MU ball and its history, maybe take the time to read his stuff and figure out his age at the same time.
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Really not trying to represent something he didn't say. Here's one place where he gave an explanation (the thread is a doozy). You can judge for yourselves.
Ok, so here da thin' y'all. True confessions, I use dis board ta decompress, express my alter ego, act flippant, or just plane have sum fun. It's a fookin' chat board, nothin' more and certainly nothin' less. Wen I'm pissed or, in dis case, dead serious 'bout a serious topic, den y'all are likely ta see da erudite scholar dat I am. Problem lots of y'all have is first off, ya tink someone cares. Dey don't. Secondly, ya tink someone is gonna tink you're important, worldy, ultra bright, or just plane, da chit. Well, no one gives a rat's ass or if dey due, their ain't nothin' of significance goin' on in der life utterwise, ai na?
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Rocky
I don’t think 4ever thinks everyone on here is too stupid, just a dozen or so would be my guess.
Jables
Not that I really care, but what difference does 4evers age make? Also, he has posted many times recounting MU ball and its history, maybe take the time to read his stuff and figure out his age at the same time.
I asked about his age because back in the early to mid 80s there was an independent newspaper in Milwaukee called Shepherd’s Express. There was (and still is) a columnist named Art Kombalack.
If I remember correctly he used to sprinkle in fookin’; a’ina and other cheesehead sounding, phonetically pronounced terms.
The major difference is that Art Kombalack was original. And funny.
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You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And, definitely don't piss into da wind, hey?
Fyi, eye've neva red da Shepherd's Express
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You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And, definitely don't piss into da wind, hey?
Fyi, eye've neva red da Shepherd's Express
Huh?
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I asked about his age because back in the early to mid 80s there was an independent newspaper in Milwaukee called Shepherd’s Express. There was (and still is) a columnist named Art Kombalack.
If I remember correctly he used to sprinkle in fookin’; a’ina and other cheesehead sounding, phonetically pronounced terms.
The major difference is that Art Kombalack was original. And funny.
Based on 4nevers posts he appears to likely be a 1970's grad
It's the Shepherd Express and Art still writes a column there: https://shepherdexpress.com/advice/art-kumbalek/the-meanest-show-on-earth/
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Is Art a real guy? Or is he like a Jim Anchower from The Onion?