Vote!

[shoothoops]

Like Hards said, it's the messaging. In the past two years, Florida has passed felon enfranchisement and $15/hour minimum wage in ballot measures while also electing politicians like De Santis, Scott, & Trump that will (and have) deliberately worked to undermine those measures.

Even right wing voters want left wing policies.

Yep a variety of things here. It isn't helped by some, not all media that is preoccupied with both sides instead of facts. Whatever happened to not covering things that are not credible? $ bottom line more important.

As Hards said, playing prevent defense isn't going to win you a lot of football games. Positively, proactively, aggressively, approach change and solutions to problems.

[Warriors4ever]

I knew a number of people who did not like Trump but 'couldn't vote for Hillary'. Yet none could actually articulate why not.

[brewcity77]

I've been arguing for awhile.

You go into the coal and oil communities and tell them that, you understand their plight, and you want to make sure that their lives are not negatively impacted by policy changes, or economic evolution.

And yes, I'm going to cut oil and gas subsidies, but every dollar of that cut is going to go into a fund, to provide free college, new tech schools, money for new small businesses and startups, specifically ear-marked for oil and coal communities impacted by the changing economy. So that for every job lost in their communities is matched with two new opportunities.

This is why a true Green New Deal (under any name) is so essential. Provide Green energy jobs to rural America that will struggle without old energy. Open up broadband nationwide. But even if they address rural concerns, I'm not sure that will change electoral minds because partisanship has made this all a cultural battle rather than an actual economic one.

[The Lens]

I knew a number of people who did not like Trump but 'couldn't vote for Hillary'. Yet none could actually articulate why not.

I knew A LOT of women who couldn't vote for HRC but could vote for Trump.  Trump's indiscretions were waived off as "boys will be boys".  HRC's deal with the devil that she made with Bill was seen as either weak or complicit in his issues. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

IMHO, it's important for the national psyche that Biden win Georgia. Win a state whose election officials and governor are Republican, and win Nevada as expected to get to 275, and then Pennsylvania doesn't really "matter" in the outcome.

That wouldn't stop Trump from whining and litigating, but it would render his baseless claims meaningless.

As for the Senate races, I have trouble believing that Dems will get out the vote with Trump not on the ballot. That sucks, but I think history has shown that to be true.

Conversely, without Trump directly on the ballot Republicans may have trouble getting people to vote a la 2018. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.

"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10

He directly joined the Biden team, so I think you will see him in the Biden administration.  I don't know where?

[jesmu84]

Whichever side embraces economic populism will dominate.

Go look at the fox news exit polling. Conservative voters support progressive ideas overwhelmingly

[Galway Eagle]

Hilary Clinton is the exact person who is smart enough to lead this country really effectively, but not be able to have any self awareness to realize why people don't care for her.  She has always seemed to be a person who isn't comfortable enough with who they are to actually be themselves.  She had a carefully calculateda personality, temperament, and platform that made her entirely unrelatable to the average person.  I'd be willing to bet that the people who actually know her as a person love her, but she never let that charisma shine through to the general public.

I give her a ton of credit for being able to deal with so much misogyny her entire life.  But she just isn't terribly likeable.  She is absolutely one of the smartest people in government, and probably the most brilliant woman to ever be in office.  But she is nowhere as genuine as someone like Michelle Obama, Stacey Abrams, or Tammy Duckworth.

Tammy Duckworth is incredibly smart as well as charismatic. I've was hoping like crazy to have her be the VP candidate just to see all the "patriots" on the right attacking a double amputee veteran.

[jesmu84]

If trump's concern is voter fraud as evidenced by late arriving ballots and ballots that already haven't been counted, why isn't he attacking other states like california or alaska?

[brewcity77]

Whichever side embraces economic populism will dominate.

Go look at the fox news exit polling. Conservative voters support progressive ideas overwhelmingly

They do, and yet socialist labels keep them from voting for the same candidates that support those popular ideas. I know there is a lot of talk about how Bernie wouldn't have won and that the progressive wing is killing the rest of the Democratic party, but I wonder if the case is the opposite. Do they need more from candidates like AOC and Elizabeth Warren that represent big structural change (similar to the "drain the swamp" promises of 4 years ago) or is tacking closer to the middle like Biden the answer?

Right now, I'm really not sure.

[Galway Eagle]

Whichever side embraces economic populism will dominate.

Go look at the fox news exit polling. Conservative voters support progressive ideas overwhelmingly

I think that the Dems need to ensure that there is no slippery slope argument. Public option does equate to socialized health care. Gun regulations does not equate to taking your guns. And they desperately need to get separated from the abortion tie in. As long as abortion is on the table to be repealed or made more strict then many people won't care about other policies. Also the increasing cancel culture won't attract many small town or blue collar people.

[jesmu84]

They do, and yet socialist labels keep them from voting for the same candidates that support those popular ideas. I know there is a lot of talk about how Bernie wouldn't have won and that the progressive wing is killing the rest of the Democratic party, but I wonder if the case is the opposite. Do they need more from candidates like AOC and Elizabeth Warren that represent big structural change (similar to the "drain the swamp" promises of 4 years ago) or is tacking closer to the middle like Biden the answer?

Right now, I'm really not sure.

Corporate Democrat party doesn't want/support progressive policy.

So, you're beating your head against a wall to try and get Dems to support those

[shoothoops]

They do, and yet socialist labels keep them from voting for the same candidates that support those popular ideas. I know there is a lot of talk about how Bernie wouldn't have won and that the progressive wing is killing the rest of the Democratic party, but I wonder if the case is the opposite. Do they need more from candidates like AOC and Elizabeth Warren that represent big structural change (similar to the "drain the swamp" promises of 4 years ago) or is tacking closer to the middle like Biden the answer?

Right now, I'm really not sure.

More of a mix and balance, yes. You mention minimum wage, climate etc....there will always be some people not or less afraid of change, and/or early adopters of change than others. Name the topic. National minimum wage hasn't budged this past decade. In some individual states, and pockets it has. Even your Florida example isn't what I would call progressive considering it is 2020.

Black people, Women, on and on, historically slow to change to improve these topics. Some are slow to change because they don't want to make a mistake. (Mistakes of course can be again, changed and corrected, but the irrational fear is there w/some.) Some are slow to change to protect his own self interests. Looking at you White Men. etc...

So, you have people that see the patterns and needs for change early, some in the middle, some slower, some never. You need enough people w/progressive ideas to move the needle.

60% or more of Americans believe there is a climate change problem. That number was about 45% 10 years ago etc...it was there, but it took time to become more mainstream.

But we can't always be reactionary and slow to recognize things. And we can't have one group uninterested in compromise and problem solving and another overly so. That slows change as well.

Need to find, encourage and $ support people with good new ideas and that can problem solve. Embrace them.

There's an old saying that is incorrect, Defense wins Championships. That of course is not true. Balance wins. You could have a great offense and just good enough defense or vice versa. You could be equally balanced on all phases of the game etc...as well.

[Hards Alumni]

Corporate Democrat party doesn't want/support progressive policy.

So, you're beating your head against a wall to try and get Dems to support those

This.  Get.  The.  Lobbyists.  Out.

As for abortion, you tell the Republican voters that are hung up on it that if the GOP wanted to ban abortions they could have done it back in 2016 when they controlled the Legislative and Executive branches.  They literally could have written a law and passed it... but they didn't.  Because they need USE YOUR FEAR AND ANGER against you to keep themselves in power.  They don't care about abortion at all, they care about using your votes to pass legislation that lines their and their financial master's pockets.  Stop letting them use your emotions against you.

[MU82]

The Republicans still seem quite a bit less likely to be cannibalized by their extremes than the Dems are.

I thought that might be changing with the efforts of The Lincoln Project, Republican Voters Against Trump, etc. But I think that once the vast, vast, vast majority of Republicans entered the voting booth (or filled out their mail-in ballot), they couldn't bring themselves to vote for even a moderate Dem like Biden -- especially not with a running mate who is a perceived ultra-liberal (and a Black female ultra-liberal, at that).

Meanwhile, in 2016, the progressives were so upset with the way they felt Bernie was treated and so uninspired by Clinton, that they let Trump win the presidency. And so, Trump got to name 3 SCOTUS justices, each less progressive than the one before, and name a couple hundred other ultra-conservative judges all around the country.

The progressives sure showed the Dems, didn't they?!?!

Good luck getting any real progressive initiatives past those courts. The progressives didn't just cut off their noses to spite their faces (as the old saying goes), they cut off their heads to spite their bodies.

[MUBurrow]

I think that the Dems need to ensure that there is no slippery slope argument. Public option does equate to socialized health care. Gun regulations does not equate to taking your guns. And they desperately need to get separated from the abortion tie in. As long as abortion is on the table to be repealed or made more strict then many people won't care about other policies. Also the increasing cancel culture won't attract many small town or blue collar people.

My counterargument to the bolded is that the democrats should do more to quietly embolden the far left wing of the party, especialy congresspeople from safe districts and states.  For the last 20 years, the Democrats have been trying to head off disingenuous slippery slope arguments before they come up, while far right Republicans have been legitimizing illegitmate ideas by just Yosemite Samm-ing in broad daylight.  Time to fight that fire with fire.  The Dems aren't going to prevent the slippery slope arguments, so just steer into them and pull the Overton Window left.  It will temporarily endanger some Democrats in swing districts, but that's just the medicine you have to take to win the war.

[Pakuni]

The further illustrate the "messaging" point, I was reminded in a tweet today that when Barack Obama first ran, he was rated the second-most liberal member of the senate. His opponent was a popular, likeable, centrist Republican.
And yet Obama won 365 electoral votes and was +10 million in the popular vote, in no small measure because of the support of the working class voters who didn't support Hillary.
Message > Policy

[Hards Alumni]

The Republicans still seem quite a bit less likely to be cannibalized by their extremes than the Dems are.

I thought that might be changing with the efforts of The Lincoln Project, Republican Voters Against Trump, etc. But I think that once the vast, vast, vast majority of Republicans entered the voting booth (or filled out their mail-in ballot), they couldn't bring themselves to vote for even a moderate Dem like Biden -- especially not with a running mate who is a perceived ultra-liberal (and a Black female ultra-liberal, at that).

Meanwhile, in 2016, the progressives were so upset with the way they felt Bernie was treated and so uninspired by Clinton, that they let Trump win the presidency. And so, Trump got to name 3 SCOTUS justices, each less progressive than the one before, and name a couple hundred other ultra-conservative judges all around the country.

The progressives sure showed the Dems, didn't they?!?!

Good luck getting any real progressive initiatives past those courts. The progressives didn't just cut off their noses to spite their faces (as the old saying goes), they cut off their heads to spite their bodies.

Cool story, bro.  Progressives didn't lose the election for Hilary.

[The Sultan]

So with the latest out of Arizona, it looks as though Biden will hold on there.  That means assuming he hold onto Nevada as well, AND that he wins PA, he has two routes to 270+ that don't include Georgia.  Georgia might not survive a legit recount with that margin.

[Pakuni]

He directly joined the Biden team, so I think you will see him in the Biden administration.  I don't know where?

Commerce seems a natural fit.

Speaking of the cabinet, rumors circulating that Trump may soon fire SecDef Mark Esper.

[forgetful]

My guess on Trump's strategy moving forward:

1. Hope Arizona and Georgia end up in your totals. Then Biden's total would be at 279. Try to get the Supreme Court to throw out Detroit votes for not allowing proper poll watchers (extremely long-shot), to flip Michigan back.

2. If Arizona or Georgia also go Biden. Try the same strategy in both Detroit and Philly.

Ronna McDaniel is already pushing this logic/strategy.

[The Sultan]

My guess on Trump's strategy moving forward:

1. Hope Arizona and Georgia end up in your totals. Then Biden's total would be at 279. Try to get the Supreme Court to throw out Detroit votes for not allowing proper poll watchers (extremely long-shot), to flip Michigan back.

2. If Arizona or Georgia also go Biden. Try the same strategy in both Detroit and Philly.

Ronna McDaniel is already pushing this logic/strategy.

It's an extreme long shot because he already HAD poll watchers in both locations, despite what he said yesterday.

[Hards Alumni]

My guess on Trump's strategy moving forward:

1. Hope Arizona and Georgia end up in your totals. Then Biden's total would be at 279. Try to get the Supreme Court to throw out Detroit votes for not allowing proper poll watchers (extremely long-shot), to flip Michigan back.

2. If Arizona or Georgia also go Biden. Try the same strategy in both Detroit and Philly.

Ronna McDaniel is already pushing this logic/strategy.

It's a pipe dream.  150k votes aren't getting tossed in Michigan.

[shoothoops]

Three Oh Six.

[forgetful]

It's an extreme long shot because he already HAD poll watchers in both locations, despite what he said yesterday.

I agree. In Philly their claim is they made them stand more than 6 feet away, which nullified their independent observer ability. Absurd.

But Trump will be out campaigning next week rallying troops to his cause and pushing this through courts. The courts won't have receptive ears, but his people will buy in hook, line, and sinker.