2020-21 College Football Thread

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This is a much-overlooked aspect of Vanderbilt's non-monetary value to the SEC. Two recent National Championships (2014 and 2019) in baseball; 2015 National Champions in women's tennis; strong programs in men's tennis, women's lacrosse and soccer, and men's and women's golf. Those programs don't directly bring $$ to the SEC like football and basketball, but they help keep the conference's name in front of sports fans year-round.

And speaking of revenue sports, Vandy's women's hoops program is excellent, and the men's hoops program is very competitive.

So while they are very different from the football power schools in what they bring, they most certainly bring more to the conference than just academics.

Yeah I don't know.  I mean, the 2019 College World Series had FOUR SEC teams.  Vandy winning it was obviously good for the conference, but it's not as though they lacked exposure otherwise.

I doubt if the conference were forming today that Vandy would be invited. 

[GooooMarquette]

Yeah I don't know.  I mean, the 2019 College World Series had FOUR SEC teams.  Vandy winning it was obviously good for the conference, but it's not as though they lacked exposure otherwise.

I doubt if the conference were forming today that Vandy would be invited.

If the only factors were football, football and football, you would certainly be right. But if they also considered the other revenue sports, Vandy's men's and women's basketball programs would be a draw. And that's ignoring the non-revenue sports and other things they bring to the conference.

[JWags85]

This is a much-overlooked aspect of Vanderbilt's non-monetary value to the SEC. Two recent National Championships (2014 and 2019) in baseball; 2015 National Champions in women's tennis; strong programs in men's tennis, women's lacrosse and soccer, and men's and women's golf. Those programs don't directly bring $$ to the SEC like football and basketball, but they help keep the conference's name in front of sports fans year-round.

And speaking of revenue sports, Vandy's women's hoops program is excellent, and the men's hoops program is very competitive.

So while they are very different from the football power schools in what they bring, they most certainly bring more to the conference than just academics.

Vandy’s women’s team hasn’t made the tourney in over 5 years and is more than 10 years removed from a Sweet Sixteen. They had a nice stretch in the early 2000s under their previous coach, but they arent an “excellent” program. Similarly with the Men’s team. A few nice stretches with Stallings, but haven’t won a tourney game in a decade.

Neither are light years behind the rest of the conference like football, but neither are a particular boon that keeps Vandy in the SEC limelight

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And Vandy scored Derek Mason today...

[shoothoops]

Derek Mason was fired Saturday night after the game. It was being discussed for a couple of weeks. The timing of the decision is to be transparent with the mid December commits. It is to make it clear to those recruits that there will be a new coach next year if they keep their commitments.

Derek is an A+ person. He had a good few years with runs to bowl games. The stories of his good deeds are pretty endless. He was a friend to everyone there no matter who they were or what they could or could not do for him.

He gets to leave Vandy earning more than $20 million as well. He's an extremely popular person there, with good reason. He did a lot for a lot of people. But long term, he isn't going to be able to do consistently enough more, with less resources. Derek had several stops college and pro, but it was his several years at Stanford, which all resulted in top level bowl games that brought his attention to David Williams at Vandy.

Vandy is soon announcing its several phase facility and infrastructure improvement plan. The board has a few more sports friendly people on it. Every other SEC school has had major facilities upgrades since the last time Vandy had them, and some, several times over. It's been less challenging for Stanford to be competitive in the Pac 12, or Northwestern in the Big 10, or Duke in the ACC.

It will be interesting. Some of the names that you will hear for various reasons in no particular order:

Jamey Chadwell: Coastal Carolina, family man type, which goes over well at Vandy, creative offensive football, which also scores well. Chadwell played college ball at E. Tennessee St.

WIll Healy at Charlotte. Will's uncle was an All American linebacker at Vandy. He's a big marketer which wouldn't hurt at a place like Vandy.

Charles Huff, Associate Head Coach Alabama. Coached at Vandy under James Franklin. He's an elite recruiter.

Clark Lea, Notre Dame Defensive Coordinator, is a Nashville native, played fullback for Vandy.

Some others, Ryan Lashlee, Offensive Coordinator Miami, played and coached in SEC. Brian Johnson at Florida.

Lance Leipold Buffalo, and Sean Lewis Kent St. because these are two difficult places to win. Will Fritz Tulane.

Names that may get mentioned but are less likely to be considered are Army and Navy head coaches. Will Fritz Tulane. Skip Holtz Louisana Tech.

And there will be additional names. Idealistically Vandy wants a coach that wants to be at Vandy long term, as opposed to a good or great 3-5 years and move on.

[MU82]

Numerous top players opting out of the rest of this sh!t-show of a season to start getting ready for the NFL Draft. Some players opting out because team gatherings have turned into super-spreader events.

Hard to blame any of ‘em.

[shoothoops]

Vandy’s women’s team hasn’t made the tourney in over 5 years and is more than 10 years removed from a Sweet Sixteen. They had a nice stretch in the early 2000s under their previous coach, but they arent an “excellent” program. Similarly with the Men’s team. A few nice stretches with Stallings, but haven’t won a tourney game in a decade.

Neither are light years behind the rest of the conference like football, but neither are a particular boon that keeps Vandy in the SEC limelight

Under Phil Lee, Jim Foster, Melanie Balcomb? Vandy has been a 27 time NCAA team. 15 Sweet 16 appearances. Vandy has had one of the better women's basketball programs nationally, an excellent program.

They parted ways with Melanie Balcomb because she "only" made the NCAA's 12 of 14 seasons. Stephanie White was set to be fired the same year as Bryce Drew, but they didn't want to do both in the same season.

Vandy didn't have air conditioning in its basketball gym up until this oast year. When their baseball team won another World Series last year, the watch party on their baseball field had to go inside the gym due to rain in the summer. Not ideal without AC. Summer workouts have been known to be pretty brutal.

Vandy just finished work on its practice gym. This is great, until you realize they only have one practice gym. Kevin Stallings paid $100k of his money one year, so the team could travel oversees.

Vandy of course as mentioned has had college baseball's best program this past decade and has a good chance to do that again this decade. They have excellent other non-revenue programs as well. It's pretty remarkable considering the athletic challenges there. Great school, one of the country's best, great campus, one of the country's best, many great things accomplished under Milwaukee native Nick Zeppos.

The football program (football thread) will finally get long overdue facility upgrades, infrastructure, resources just to try to remain competitive with its peers. And it can't come soon enough there.



 

[JWags85]

Under Phil Lee, Jim Foster, Melanie Balcomb? Vandy has been a 27 time NCAA team. 15 Sweet 16 appearances. Vandy has had one of the better women's basketball programs nationally, an excellent program.

They parted ways with Melanie Balcomb because she "only" made the NCAA's 12 of 14 seasons. Stephanie White was set to be fired the same year as Bryce Drew, but they didn't want to do both in the same season.

Vandy didn't have air conditioning in its basketball gym up until this oast year. When their baseball team won another World Series last year, the watch party on their baseball field had to go inside the gym due to rain in the summer. Not ideal without AC. Summer workouts have been known to be pretty brutal.

Vandy just finished work on its practice gym. This is great, until you realize they only have one practice gym. Kevin Stallings paid $100k of his money one year, so the team could travel oversees.

Vandy of course as mentioned has had college baseball's best program this past decade and has a good chance to do that again this decade. They have excellent other non-revenue programs as well. It's pretty remarkable considering the athletic challenges there. Great school, one of the country's best, great campus, one of the country's best, many great things accomplished under Milwaukee native Nick Zeppos.

The football program (football thread) will finally get long overdue facility upgrades, infrastructure, resources just to try to remain competitive with its peers. And it can't come soon enough there.

Vandy's womens team hasnt been to the S16 in over a decade like I mentioned, hasnt been to an E8 in nearly 20.  In that time, programs like South Carolina, Oregon, Oregon St, Mississippi St and Baylor have come on exceptionally strong.  Vandy has more in common with Lousiana Tech, a program with tons of historical success but little in the current game, than they do with those schools or the other excellent programs/powers.

I'm not arguing that Vandy trails others in facilities or program investment.  Thats not up for debate.  The athletic investment dwarfs the stature of the school in all other regards, especially for being in such a cutthroat conference.  That being said, as I mentioned, as it currently stands for recruiting, coach attracting, or the like, neither Vandy BB program would be excellent.  Historical success means very little these days if you dont have recent success or facilities or appeal to match.

[shoothoops]

Vandy's womens team hasnt been to the S16 in over a decade like I mentioned, hasnt been to an E8 in nearly 20.  In that time, programs like South Carolina, Oregon, Oregon St, Mississippi St and Baylor have come on exceptionally strong.  Vandy has more in common with Lousiana Tech, a program with tons of historical success but little in the current game, than they do with those schools or the other excellent programs/powers.

I'm not arguing that Vandy trails others in facilities or program investment.  Thats not up for debate.  The athletic investment dwarfs the stature of the school in all other regards, especially for being in such a cutthroat conference.  That being said, as I mentioned, as it currently stands for recruiting, coach attracting, or the like, neither Vandy BB program would be excellent.  Historical success means very little these days if you dont have recent success or facilities or appeal to match.

Sure it does. You are what your record says you are. It isn't limited to  only a small specific set of years.

[GooooMarquette]

Indiana has been the one positive surprise in the Big Ten this year. They just lost their starting QB for the rest of the season....

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/indiana-qb-michael-penix-jr-out-for-the-season-after-suffering-a-torn-acl-in-win-over-maryland/

[dgies9156]

Gang, I grew up on Vanderbilt basketball and saw as a youngster how good it could be. And, Vanderbilt was a pioneer in the SEC when it recruited Perry Wallace from Nashville Pearl, who integrated SEC basketball.

That said, the men's program is an absolute s__tshow right now. It's awful and has not won an SEC game in a couple of years. That despite having one of the best home court advantages in all basketball. Vandy football is even worse and is the only legacy school still in the conference never to have won a football title. And, it never will!!!

The previous poster who gave reference to Vanderbilt being one of the 10 legacy SEC Universities is right on. There's no way that if Alabama, Florida, LSU, Tennessee (another down-on-its-luck football school) and Georgia had to do it over again, Vanderbilt would be in the mix. No way those guys would share football money with a broken-down program like Vanderbilt. I'm actually surprised they still do, especially given the entry of Missouri and Texas A&M.

Vanderbilt would either be an ACC school (but even they can take only one Duke football program), an OVC school or when the Big East reconstructed, a Big East School.

[Billy Hoyle]

Sure it does. You are what your record says you are. It isn't limited to  only a small specific set of years.

The issue for Vandy Women's Hoops is that they were one of the first schools to make a legit investment in WBB which got them ahead of the pack but now others have done so and they've fallen behind. La Tech and Old Dominion are similar. Even Tennessee isn't the juggernaut it was in the 80's and 90's. And while you can rest on your past record what you do now is more important. We can only live off the 70's for so long and not admit that programs that sucked in the past, like Bucky, Gonzaga, Florida, UConn, etc., have passed us by. Ask UCLA about that...or Michigan football.

Vanderbilt would either be an ACC school (but even they can take only one Duke football program), an OVC school or when the Big East reconstructed, a Big East School.

Vandy is basically Rice and Tulane but in the SEC. A world-class academic institution, lots of money, located in a major urban area, not willing to fully commit to being a successful athletic program. They would probably be in the AAC or CUSA if conferences were formed today.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Vandy is basically Rice and Tulane but in the SEC. A world-class academic institution, lots of money, located in a major urban area, not willing to fully commit to being a successful athletic program. They would probably be in the AAC or CUSA if conferences were formed today.

Right.  Just look at Tulane.  They were in the SEC until 1966.  If Vandy had made that choice instead, Tulane would be the perennial football dormat.  (With a cooler logo.)

[Billy Hoyle]

Right.  Just look at Tulane.  They were in the SEC until 1966.  If Vandy had made that choice instead, Tulane would be the perennial football dormat.  (With a cooler logo.)

The "Angry Wave" is best logo in college football! Too bad we don't have an old "Golden Avalanche" logo we could bring back.

And let's not forget that the old BE brass bringing Tulane into the conference was the final straw and led to the current incarnation of the BE forming.

[GooooMarquette]

Yes, Vandy's football is atrocious...but it does not have the worst FBS football record of any P5 school during the 2010s. Not even close. Here is a list of all FBS football schools' records in the 2010s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_win-loss_records_in_the_2010s

You will see several P5 schools below Vandy on that list...including UVa, Iowa State, Maryland, Indiana, Rutgers, Illinois, Colorado, Oregon State, Purdue and Kansas. Oh yeah...and Ole Miss - an SEC school with a considerably worse football record in the 2010s than Vandy (!).

Betcha didn't know there were that many FBS schools (all but Ole Miss in inferior conferences) that had worse football records than Vandy over the previous 10 seasons, did ya?

Bottom line: I don't disagree that Vanderbilt would have a very hard (maybe impossible) task of getting into the SEC if they reorganized today and football was the sole driver. But then again, if all the conferences reorganized and football was the sole driver, lots of schools would be nervous....

[shoothoops]

The "Angry Wave" is best logo in college football! Too bad we don't have an old "Golden Avalanche" logo we could bring back.

And let's not forget that the old BE brass bringing Tulane into the conference was the final straw and led to the current incarnation of the BE forming.

Vandy's academic and athletic conference peers include Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, etc...

Vandy is seeking a long term football coach that can win enough and be competitive enough. A big difference has been that more often than not it has been easier to be more competitive in football in the Pac 12, Big Ten, ACC etc....than the SEC in football.

At Northwestern, Gary Barnett had 2 winning seasons. ...Take Pat Fitzgerald, he's had a winning record 50% of the time in 15 seasons. They've lost fewer than 4 games 3 times in 15 years. He's won a handful of mid level bowls. They now have a newly opened $270 million facility. He wants to be there.

At Duke, Cutcliffe has had a few less seasons than Fitzgerald, and he has had a winning record about 33% of his dozen years there.

Vandy will try to hire a long term coach as opposed to another James Franklin. Tim Corbin, Geoff McDonald, Darren Ambrose, etc...and so on as they have had in their successful other sports. They want what James Franklin gave them in on field results, but they want a coach that will either stay longer term and identify with the school, and/or someone who would have a successor plan in place.

Vandy will be announcing separate phases of facility and infrastructure projects in the near future. And they will need them. But they have a new Chancellor, new AD, new intricacies with its board. These are long overdue.

[JWags85]

Yes, Vandy's football is atrocious...but it does not have the worst FBS football record of any P5 school during the 2010s. Not even close. Here is a list of all FBS football schools' records in the 2010s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_win-loss_records_in_the_2010s

You will see several P5 schools below Vandy on that list...including UVa, Iowa State, Maryland, Indiana, Rutgers, Illinois, Colorado, Oregon State, Purdue and Kansas. Oh yeah...and Ole Miss - an SEC school with a considerably worse football record in the 2010s than Vandy (!).

Betcha didn't know there were that many FBS schools (all but Ole Miss in inferior conferences) that had worse football records than Vandy over the previous 10 seasons, did ya?

I dont think anyone with knowledge of CFB would guess Vandy would be at or near the bottom of that list considering that encompasses the tenure of James Franklin who won something like 25 games over a few years, which was good enough to get him one of the more prestigious jobs in CFB.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Vandy will try to hire a long term coach as opposed to another James Franklin. Tim Corbin, Geoff McDonald, Darren Ambrose, etc...and so on as they have had in their successful other sports. They want what James Franklin gave them in on field results, but they want a coach that will either stay longer term and identify with the school, and/or someone who would have a successor plan in place.

I mean...good luck.  You have just described what everybody wants, but is very difficult to achieve.  Northwestern got very serendipitous with Fitzgerald.  He was on staff when Randy Walker died, and was competent enough to succeed AND he is an alum. 

[shoothoops]

I mean...good luck.  You have just described what everybody wants, but is very difficult to achieve.  Northwestern got very serendipitous with Fitzgerald.  He was on staff when Randy Walker died, and was competent enough to succeed AND he is an alum.

Vandy's soccer coach came from U Penn. Vandy's long time tennis coach (now retired assistant for his protege) ...played at Virginia, and coached at Duke before coming to Vandy because his wife is an English Professor, Chair of Creative writing program. They embrace high level athletics and academics and several other things there.

A coach doesn't have to come from a background similar to the above, but they must embrace it to stick around a while. Tim Corbin didn't from that background. But he embraced it. He was thrown a lot of Nike money and offered the Oregon baseball job earlier in his career at Vandy. But he stayed.

Even Kevin Stallings, who tried multiple times for multiple Big Ten coaching jobs early in his time. At Vandy, later embraced the Vandy way, as he and Corbin became good friends. It isn't surprising both are friends with Rick Byrd who was named to College Hoops HOF this week.

Derek Mason loved Vandy, and he would have stayed a long time even if he were successful. Went to a couple of bowl games, best Tennessee often. He simply didn't win enough.

Football winning at Vandy or Northwestern etc...isn't the same expectation level as the big state public schools. But it's certainly higher for Vandy than what it has been. Winning while always challenging, is easier to do in some of the other sports.

They can be more successful, more often, in football.

[Billy Hoyle]

I dont think anyone with knowledge of CFB would guess Vandy would be at or near the bottom of that list considering that encompasses the tenure of James Franklin who won something like 25 games over a few years, which was good enough to get him one of the more prestigious jobs in CFB.

Franklin also covered up a gang rape an Vandy and lied about it.

https://www.si.com/college/2014/10/08/james-franklin-vanderbilt-rape-case-penn-state-video

[Billy Hoyle]

Franklin also covered up a gang rape an Vandy and lied about it.  But he did get them 2 of their 4 winning seasons since 1975 so, yeah, go James Franklin.

Since joining the SEC in 1933 they have a 26% winning percentage in conference.

https://www.si.com/college/2014/10/08/james-franklin-vanderbilt-rape-case-penn-state-video

[shoothoops]

Franklin also covered up a gang rape an Vandy and lied about it.

https://www.si.com/college/2014/10/08/james-franklin-vanderbilt-rape-case-penn-state-video

Franklin was certainly the football coach at Vandy when the incident took place. That part you have correct.

Nashville Deputy District Attorney Tom Thurman: "There is no indication Franklin did anything inappropriate in this investigation."

The players involved were immediately dismissed. And they were quickly prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, where prosecutors sought maximum penalty.

Unfortunately too many of these incidents have happened too many places both in and out of Universities.

Vandy became the first SEC school to host an annual "Set The Expectation" game, in conjuction with their ongoing work and friendship with Brenda Tracy.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/college/vanderbilt-to-boost-awareness-with-set-the-expectation-game.html

https://vucommodores.com/continuing-to-set-the-expectation/

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2020/10/09/vanderbilt-athletics-outlines-progress-made-to-address-and-prevent-sexual-assault-and-misconduct/

[dgies9156]

Vandy's academic and athletic conference peers include Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, etc...

Vandy is seeking a long term football coach that can win enough and be competitive enough. A big difference has been that more often than not it has been easier to be more competitive in football in the Pac 12, Big Ten, ACC etc....than the SEC in football.

To the best of my knowledge, the only two coaches Vandy had in recent memory who had a modicum of success -- at a consistent level that would make their programs on par with, say, Ole Miss -- were the aforementioned James Franklin, who may be available again if Penn State has another year like this one, and Steve Sloan in the mid-1970s.

Neither stayed.

Vanderbilt has the problem with football coaches we have had of late with basketball coaches. If you're capable of winning at a high level, you are not going to stay at Vanderbilt. A "real" P5 school will lure you away with Big Dollars, Wonderful Facilities and the chance to have something Vanderbilt will NEVER, EVER Have -- a national championship!

We at least have the facilities and history to try to keep our coaches. Vanderbilt's football history is a disaster. And, try to admit an average Alabama recruit to Vanderbilt AND keep him eligible. Good luck on that one.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

To the best of my knowledge, the only two coaches Vandy had in recent memory who had a modicum of success -- at a consistent level that would make their programs on par with, say, Ole Miss -- were the aforementioned James Franklin, who may be available again if Penn State has another year like this one, and Steve Sloan in the mid-1970s.

Neither stayed.

Vanderbilt has the problem with football coaches we have had of late with basketball coaches. If you're capable of winning at a high level, you are not going to stay at Vanderbilt. A "real" P5 school will lure you away with Big Dollars, Wonderful Facilities and the chance to have something Vanderbilt will NEVER, EVER Have -- a national championship!

We at least have the facilities and history to try to keep our coaches. Vanderbilt's football history is a disaster. And, try to admit an average Alabama recruit to Vanderbilt AND keep him eligible. Good luck on that one.

I mean, why are you disparaging Alabama recruits?  Do you know anything about their academic success?  I say that because they have accomplished incredible results on the field and also kept up their graduation rates. Nick Saban tends to stay away from dumbasses and malcontents. 

[shoothoops]

To the best of my knowledge, the only two coaches Vandy had in recent memory who had a modicum of success -- at a consistent level that would make their programs on par with, say, Ole Miss -- were the aforementioned James Franklin, who may be available again if Penn State has another year like this one, and Steve Sloan in the mid-1970s.

Neither stayed.

Vanderbilt has the problem with football coaches we have had of late with basketball coaches. If you're capable of winning at a high level, you are not going to stay at Vanderbilt. A "real" P5 school will lure you away with Big Dollars, Wonderful Facilities and the chance to have something Vanderbilt will NEVER, EVER Have -- a national championship!

We at least have the facilities and history to try to keep our coaches. Vanderbilt's football history is a disaster. And, try to admit an average Alabama recruit to Vanderbilt AND keep him eligible. Good luck on that one.

Again, this isn't something I am just throwing out there. This is something that started with David Williams.

Bryce Drew was unsuccessful at Vandy for basketball, but, he was in part hired because they felt he would stay a long time if successful, as opposed to jumping to a different Power 5 school. His family, parents, relatives, all moved there. He may or may not have stayed of successful, but he was hired believing there was a good chance of that.

Derek Mason wasn't successful enough in football, but, he would have stayed a long time if he was. He made over $20 million at Vandy and he had 3 years left on his deal.

Tim Corbin, Geoff McDonald, Darren Ambrose, and so on are the types of coaches who have had other offers, but prefer to stay at Vandy, understanding all that entails, good, bad, indifferent. Not every coach has the mindset of James Franklin. (Franklin is from Pennsylvania, played and coached in Pennsylvania prior to Vandy)

Vandy may or may not find that candidate in their search. If they don't, they will hope to find a coach that initially can do a lot more with less resources until those improve. And if and when that coach leaves, the transition to the next one would be better than before. Some candidates will be more obvious that they are interested in short term success at Vandy to jump to a different job. Some won't.

I also wouldn't generalize too much. Each individual situation is different at different times with either similar or different results.

I'm just telling you what I know.

They want creative, innovative, offensive play with this hire. That can be a head coach or coordinator. They are less likely to hire a pro style offensive coach, (without a strong defense) as well as those without the mentioned above.

I already mentioned some of the names they are exploring.

There will eventually be a more specific announcement from Candice, regarding the phases of facility and infrastructure improvements.

We'll see.