K-12 Schools & COVID

[MU82]

Don’t know what things are like down there, but they are always short of bus drivers around here. My wife works for the school district, and said with Covid a number of the older drivers retired, so they would not have had enough if all the schools had been in-person. It certainly is not for lack of trying to hire them because I always see ads and billboards.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the exact problem here.

I guess the angry parents are saying, “But couldn’t you see this coming 3 months and 2 months and 1 month ago? Why did you keep saying middle schools were gonna go back to in-person if you knew this would be a problem?”

[Marquette Fan]

Don’t know what things are like down there, but they are always short of bus drivers around here. My wife works for the school district, and said with Covid a number of the older drivers retired, so they would not have had enough if all the schools had been in-person. It certainly is not for lack of trying to hire them because I always see ads and billboards.

I was just going to post about the same thing.  We were warned this year that there would be a shortage of bus drivers.  They have trouble hiring drivers normally and they use a lot of recently retired drivers who don't want to come back now.  I would not fault any one having trouble hiring bus drivers now.  It's the same with substitutes - they are really hard to come by now...

[MU82]

I was just going to post about the same thing.  We were warned this year that there would be a shortage of bus drivers.  They have trouble hiring drivers normally and they use a lot of recently retired drivers who don't want to come back now.  I would not fault any one having trouble hiring bus drivers now.  It's the same with substitutes - they are really hard to come by now...

As I said, I think a big part of the deal here is that parents weren’t warned. It was just sprung on them shortly before schools were supposed to go in-person.

[MU82]

From AP:

Hundreds of school employees in the U.S. have died of the coronavirus. While children generally have mild cases or no symptoms at all, about 1 in 4 of their teachers have a condition that raises their risk of becoming seriously ill from the virus. Among the victims is fourth-grade Arkansas teacher Susanne Michael, who died less than three months after celebrating the adoption of a former student from a troubled home and two of the girl’s brothers.

https://apnews.com/article/arkansas-jonesboro-teaching-coronavirus-pandemic-5473efa14f6b801bc16a0e6b5c094313?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

[Hards Alumni]

As I said, I think a big part of the deal here is that parents weren’t warned. It was just sprung on them shortly before schools were supposed to go in-person.

Bus drivers typically run older and retired.  Plus they have to carry a CDL and are part time.  In good times, drivers are in short supply. 

Imagine asking a retired person to get in a bus full of germs (potentially), carry a CDL, and work part time... in a pandemic.  I'd be taking the year off if I was driving a school bus and could afford it.

I understand the parents frustration, but it is also very difficult to ask a bunch of bus drivers to be flexible with their schedules for months on end in the hope that school might start up.  What is surprising to me, is that the parents couldn't foresee this as a possible outcome.  Nothing is 'back to normal' right now.

[tower912]

(years of tearing down teachers, cutting pay and benefits, making them scapegoats and political pawns).  Where are all of the teachers?

You can write the same thing about bus drivers.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

From AP:

Hundreds of school employees in the U.S. have died of the coronavirus. While children generally have mild cases or no symptoms at all, about 1 in 4 of their teachers have a condition that raises their risk of becoming seriously ill from the virus. Among the victims is fourth-grade Arkansas teacher Susanne Michael, who died less than three months after celebrating the adoption of a former student from a troubled home and two of the girl’s brothers.

https://apnews.com/article/arkansas-jonesboro-teaching-coronavirus-pandemic-5473efa14f6b801bc16a0e6b5c094313?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

From the same article:

"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.

“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”

[injuryBug]

From the same article:

"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.

“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”

Reading is fundamental

Pays to read the entire article.   In the end it starts at home like so many other things, for the kids and adults.

[warriorchick]

Bus drivers typically run older and retired.  Plus they have to carry a CDL and are part time.  In good times, drivers are in short supply. 

Imagine asking a retired person to get in a bus full of germs (potentially), carry a CDL, and work part time... in a pandemic.  I'd be taking the year off if I was driving a school bus and could afford it.

I understand the parents frustration, but it is also very difficult to ask a bunch of bus drivers to be flexible with their schedules for months on end in the hope that school might start up.  What is surprising to me, is that the parents couldn't foresee this as a possible outcome.  Nothing is 'back to normal' right now.

Not only is it part time (and seasonal), it's also mostly split shift.  You might get four hours a day, but the hours are something like 7-9 a.m. and then 2-4 p.m. Not to mention having to deal with the shenanigans of the kids.  You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

[GooooMarquette]

Not only is it part time (and seasonal), it's also mostly split shift.  You might get four hours a day, but the hours are something like 7-9 a.m. and then 2-4 p.m. Not to mention having to deal with the shenanigans of the kids.  You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

Yep.

My wife was a para on a bus for special needs kids for about 2 years. The split shift was a major pain in the butt, so she jumped at the opportunity to take a position in the classroom. 7:30-3:30 instead of the crazy split bus hours.

[MU82]

From the same article:

"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.

“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”

Thanks, Sultan. I confess that I somehow missed that. It was an important point.

[pbiflyer]

My daughter’s high school, where you currently have the option of on line or full time in person just canceled mid terms because they couldn’t ensure students wouldn’t be able to cheat.

[injuryBug]

Found out a girl on the basketball team has covid in my kids district, which caused our girls team to start with 5 players as the rest were quarantined.  The girls mom spent this halloween out at the bars and proudly posted pics on facebook.  The entire HS is now virtual for 2 weeks with a pause of activities until back in person.
Nothing like adults messing things up for the kids.  Seriously how hard it is to stay home

[GooooMarquette]

Found out a girl on the basketball team has covid in my kids district, which caused our girls team to start with 5 players as the rest were quarantined.  The girls mom spent this halloween out at the bars and proudly posted pics on facebook.  The entire HS is now virtual for 2 weeks with a pause of activities until back in person.
Nothing like adults messing things up for the kids.  Seriously how hard it is to stay home

That totally sucks. People are so selfish.

[Marquette Fan]

Our District dashboard numbers look great today after a number of schools were switched to virtual for a couple weeks due to a high number of cases and no school Wed-Fri.  I fear what the spread will be with all the schools ending their virtual stretches going back face to face and the post-Thanksgiving spread...

[MU82]

Found out a girl on the basketball team has covid in my kids district, which caused our girls team to start with 5 players as the rest were quarantined.  The girls mom spent this halloween out at the bars and proudly posted pics on facebook.  The entire HS is now virtual for 2 weeks with a pause of activities until back in person.
Nothing like adults messing things up for the kids.  Seriously how hard it is to stay home

This goes directly to the "if you're so concerned about the virus, just stay home" lie.

The girl who got infected did nothing wrong. Neither did any of her teammates. Neither did others at the school. But because the adult was selfish, it affected numerous others.

It is NOT a personal responsibility thing. It never has been. It is a selfishness issue, an I-don't-give-a-sh!t-about-you-so-shut-up issue.

[Marquette Fan]

Ohio is changing their policy for quarantining for schools:

https://local12.com/news/local/ohio-changes-quarantine-policies-in-for-school-students-staff?fbclid=IwAR3vVi9dP7Bwfsr_ori5-Km1c3BG3KuIos8Amg9NGuftjY5m8X5dJPWwI_o

[forgetful]

From the same article:

"When cases can be traced back to their source, it is often an informal gathering, a restaurant or a sporting event, not a classroom, said Emily Oster, a Brown University economics professor whose analysis of in-school infection data from all 50 states found that bringing students together in schools does not appear to be driving the spread.

“I don’t think anyone would claim that no one has gotten COVID at a school. That would be unrealistic,” she said. “But in most of the cases we are seeing among people who are affiliated with schools, the actual case was not acquired at a school.”

Kind of resurrecting an old post, but wanted to comment on the flaws with the quote at the bottom. I will use an anecdotal story, unfortunately. A local elementary school went the December-early January window with peak infectivity with zero cases amongst faculty/staff.

After returning for in person instruction, 6 faculty, were diagnosed with COVID the 2nd week of class (immediately in the window consistent with exposure after in person instruction began). It was deemed that none of these cases were "contracted at school," because they weren't aware of any cases in the school besides these 6. It was decided it must have been at "home" or in the "community" despite the fact of no known exposure at home, or in the community and no at risk behavior amongst the 6.

Why? Because elementary kids are often asymptomatic. Even when symptomatic, parents are reluctant to admit to COVID-19 for fear of backlash, and simply hold their kids out. The same thing happens in colleges, where college kids sometimes travel to neighboring counties so there isn't a requirement of contacting their school. That means there is no connection to "students" as the students and families are hiding their infections, which the "administrators" then simply assign as not school related.

When one does an honest examination of the data. It clearly shows an elevated risk to teachers, that is directly coupled to the likelihood of asymptomatic cases and mask compliance. Where there is about a 50% increased risk for elementary teachers, that declines with increasing age of the student body (13% increased risk at high school).

https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04

[Billy Hoyle]

Michigan pushing back the start of basketball. Coaches are not happy as kids are not being inundated with messages from out of state prep schools inviting them to come play.

https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/schools-outraged-bars-can-open-michigan-not-winter-sports

[Marquette Fan]

Kind of resurrecting an old post, but wanted to comment on the flaws with the quote at the bottom. I will use an anecdotal story, unfortunately. A local elementary school went the December-early January window with peak infectivity with zero cases amongst faculty/staff.

After returning for in person instruction, 6 faculty, were diagnosed with COVID the 2nd week of class (immediately in the window consistent with exposure after in person instruction began). It was deemed that none of these cases were "contracted at school," because they weren't aware of any cases in the school besides these 6. It was decided it must have been at "home" or in the "community" despite the fact of no known exposure at home, or in the community and no at risk behavior amongst the 6.

Why? Because elementary kids are often asymptomatic. Even when symptomatic, parents are reluctant to admit to COVID-19 for fear of backlash, and simply hold their kids out. The same thing happens in colleges, where college kids sometimes travel to neighboring counties so there isn't a requirement of contacting their school. That means there is no connection to "students" as the students and families are hiding their infections, which the "administrators" then simply assign as not school related.

When one does an honest examination of the data. It clearly shows an elevated risk to teachers, that is directly coupled to the likelihood of asymptomatic cases and mask compliance. Where there is about a 50% increased risk for elementary teachers, that declines with increasing age of the student body (13% increased risk at high school).

https://medium.com/swlh/examining-the-data-on-in-person-schooling-and-covid-19-rates-for-teachers-and-school-staff-b8303726ca04

I keep hearing the arugment in our District that Covid isn't being transmitted at the schools and that the cases are from extra curricular activities or other sources.  But I also wonder how you can really know where everyone is getting it from.

And I'm tired of hearing about the stats about the number of quarantined students who test positive later.  That stat is meaningless to me as a lot of the quarantined students aren't being tested later.  My youngest was quarantined just before Christmas and we never had her tested as she never had any symptoms but she could have been asymptomatic and had it for all we know.

[MU82]

They are finally going to make vaccines available to teachers in NC starting Feb. 24.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article249151310.html?ac_cid=DM383056&ac_bid=-582023405

Teachers' groups have said over and over that they won't feel good about returning to in-person school, especially for middle school and up, until they can get vaccinated. So this is a good thing.

[pacearrow02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OpenFCPS2020/status/1361271178078355457

So much for letting the scientists to their thing.  Felt bad for CDC director making the rounds on the Sunday shows, was obviously been out in an impossible position. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OpenFCPS2020/status/1361271178078355457

So much for letting the scientists to their thing.  Felt bad for CDC director making the rounds on the Sunday shows, was obviously been out in an impossible position.

If only they had taken input from Princess Sparkle Pony rather than the people that have to implement the guidelines. Opportunity missed I guess.

[forgetful]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OpenFCPS2020/status/1361271178078355457

So much for letting the scientists to their thing.  Felt bad for CDC director making the rounds on the Sunday shows, was obviously been out in an impossible position.

Hate feeding the board troll. But.

The science says that opening schools, particularly with high community spread places teachers and staff at significantly elevated risk for acquiring COVID and possibly death. That is what the science says.

Now, the secondary aspect of the CDC is the public policy side. That is required to take into consideration the effect of science-based decisions on stake holders. That is precisely what they did, and came to compromise decisions.

The Trump administration said F the teachers, let them get sick and die, parents want their kids in school...period. That's not how science-based public policy is decided. Science-based public policy takes into consideration all stakeholders.

[pacearrow02]

Hate feeding the board troll. But.

The science says that opening schools, particularly with high community spread places teachers and staff at significantly elevated risk for acquiring COVID and possibly death. That is what the science says.

Now, the secondary aspect of the CDC is the public policy side. That is required to take into consideration the effect of science-based decisions on stake holders. That is precisely what they did, and came to compromise decisions.

The Trump administration said F the teachers, let them get sick and die, parents want their kids in school...period. That's not how science-based public policy is decided. Science-based public policy takes into consideration all stakeholders.

What about the schools that don’t have high community spread?  The communities that have recently decided to open up in door dining etc because community spread is no longer a concern, what are your thoughts with regarding those communities?

Ahhh now it’s science based public policy, not just follow the science.  In this case the stakeholders of parents have no say?  So just the stakeholders with deep pockets and political influence (ie teacher unions) can help determine what the CDC guidelines should be.

Does the science not say teachers, kids, etc are at higher risk of infection when out in the community and not in school?