Jon Rothstein Big East Offseason Breakdown

[Its DJOver]

Yea, remember the reaction here when we only beat the 207th ranked kenpom team Robert Morris by 4.  What would have been the reaction if we had this stretch.

L to Penn (kenpom 141)
L to LBSU (kenpom 297)
L to Charleston (kenopm 170)
3 point win against Pepperdine (kenopm 139)
L to URI (kenopm 65)
5 point win against Stony Brook (kenpom 192)
32 point loss to Florida (kenopm 32)

We've had bad games down the stretch two years in a row, but our worst loss in those combined stretches is probably the home loss to kenpom 100 ranked Gtown in 18-19.  Providence has had worse losses that that by the end of December of each year.  Yes Cooley has had some big wins, at home to SH and @Nova last year, but the head scratching loses suggest a consistency issue that most here would not accept from our program.

[willie warrior]

Yeah, I don't get the Ed Cooley lovefest around here.

same same can be said about Wojo.

[Uncle Rico]

same same can be said about Wojo.

Thanks, Willie!

[Golden Avalanche]

His teams improve during the season, while MU seems to tank.

19-20 the Friars finished the regular season 8-2

18-19 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

17-18 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

16-17 the Friars finished the regular season 7-3

15-16 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

14-15 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

Recency bias is clouding your memory regarding how greatly PC improves during a season.

[Uncle Rico]

Also, Rothstein sucks

[MU82]

19-20 the Friars finished the regular season 8-2

18-19 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

17-18 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

16-17 the Friars finished the regular season 7-3

15-16 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

14-15 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

Recency bias is clouding your memory regarding how greatly PC improves during a season.

Yep. I got into this exact same conversation with another Scooper a month or two ago. "Cooley the great closer" is a myth.

In 2015-16, when he had a team full of effen studs, Cooley started out 14-1 and got into the top 5 only to close out 10-9 -- including two losses to Wojo.

The following year, Cooley started 10-2 and finished 10-11. The following year, Cooley started out 10-4 and finished 11-10. And in 2018-19, Cooley started out 10-3 and finished 8-13 (with 2 more losses to Wojo).

Indeed, except for last season, one could argue that Cooley teams have been very good at getting out of the blocks and quite unimpressive down the stretch of seasons.

FWIW, Cooley and Wojo are 6-6 head-to-head. And as others have said, in 14 years Cooley has won exactly 1 more NCAA tourney game than Wojo has.

Not saying I'm satisfied with what we've done under Wojo, or that we should only aspire to have a coach as good as Cooley. Just sharing some data.

[zcg2013]

This is quite the underrated statement.

Also, Rothstein sucks

[GooooMarquette]

Not saying I'm satisfied with what we've done under Wojo, or that we should only aspire to have a coach as good as Cooley. Just sharing some data.

Agreed. If Wojo is still at MU after 14 seasons, I sure as he!! hope it's because his record is WAAAAAAY better than Cooley's is right now.

[panda]

Cooley has stalled a bit, but he brought PC back from the dead.

I don’t think it’s an apt comparison between the two programs.

[MU82]

Agreed. If Wojo is still at MU after 14 seasons, I sure as he!! hope it's because his record is WAAAAAAY better than Cooley's is right now.

Ditto.

[Dawson Rental]

Also, Rothstein sucks

I believe that he is actually Crean in disguise.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cooley has stalled a bit, but he brought PC back from the dead.

I don’t think it’s an apt comparison between the two programs.

I agree with this. Cooley getting Providence to where they are today is extremely impressive but so far, he hasn't been able to get them any farther. Not a knock on him, elevating programs is very difficult. We'll see if he can take the next step in the future.

[DFW HOYA]

19-20 the Friars finished the regular season 8-2

18-19 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

17-18 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

16-17 the Friars finished the regular season 7-3

15-16 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

14-15 the Friars finished the regular season 5-5

Recency bias is clouding your memory regarding how greatly PC improves during a season.

I'll take that compared to the last five years of Georgetown:

15-16: 1-9
16-17: 3-7
17-18: 2-8
18-19: 4-6
19-20: 2-8

[Galway Eagle]

I'll take that compared to the last five years of Georgetown:

15-16: 1-9
16-17: 3-7
17-18: 2-8
18-19: 4-6
19-20: 2-8

You might take it over GT That doesn't make your earlier comment right however that his teams finish strong

[DFW HOYA]

You might take it over GT That doesn't make your earlier comment right however that his teams finish strong

I've seen PC do quite well in Big East Tournaments under Cooley and they are definitely a better team in March than they are earlier in the year.

[Galway Eagle]

I've seen PC do quite well in Big East Tournaments under Cooley and they are definitely a better team in March than they are earlier in the year.

He's 7-6 in big east tournaments according wiki but I count 8-5.. with 3 of those coming from 2014. Please tell me, what does quite well mean? .500 to close out 4/6 years and a game above .500 in 5/6 big east tournaments plus 1 ncaa win. You're just wrong and doubling down on your original statement.

1-1 2019
2-1 2018
0-1 2017
1-1 2016
1-1 2015
3-0 2014

[Newsdreams]

Thanks, Willie!

Willie is our burger boy

[wadesworld]

Willie is our burger boy

Lol that is great.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree with this. Cooley getting Providence to where they are today is extremely impressive but so far, he hasn't been able to get them any farther. Not a knock on him, elevating programs is very difficult. We'll see if he can take the next step in the future.

Right.  And I think if Wojo took over a program like Providence he likely would have had similar results.  I think they are both decent coaches, but so far, ones who can't reach that next level.

[brewcity77]

Right.  And I think if Wojo took over a program like Providence he likely would have had similar results.  I think they are both decent coaches, but so far, ones who can't reach that next level.

+1

Providence is a tough job. The five straight bids he earned were as more than they had total in the 20 years before he arrived. Maybe he's just capped out what's possible there. Credit for what he's done, but it's hard to see them as an ascendent program anymore.

[Herman Cain]

+1

Providence is a tough job. The five straight bids he earned were as more than they had total in the 20 years before he arrived. Maybe he's just capped out what's possible there. Credit for what he's done, but it's hard to see them as an ascendent program anymore.

Cooley is one of my favorite coaches in the league. I enjoy the MU Providence rivalry.  Providence is a tough job  and they  faces the same challenges the rest of the non Villanova teams in the league face. That is how to break out of the pack. The Big East is so tough it is very hard to get upward traction in a program.   

Cooley , from time to time ,can recruit an all Big East type player. However, he has had a hard time getting the depth of the roster,  necessary in our league, through multiple strong recruiting classes .  This coming season is a  great example. Duke, Reeves and Watson all very capable players, but then reliance on two grad transfers from lower conferences and a bunch of marginal leaves a net result somewhere in the middle of the league.

[Its DJOver]

I think that PC 19-20 to 20-21 transition will end up looking a lot like our 16-17 to 17-18 transition.  The first year, you have 5-6 guys that have the potential to go off, get 20+ and win the game for you.  Second year you need those remaining to go off, and if they don't you will likely struggle.

MU in 16-17: Markus, JJJ, Rowsey, and Haani all had multiple 20+ point games, Luke and KR each had 1 plus 3-4 other games where they hit 19.  It wasn't necessarily game over when Marlus only scored 3 against StJ, or KR only scored 3 against X (we won both of those games).  Then in 17-18, if at least 2 of Sam, Markus or Rowsey didn't go off, it was likely an L.

PC in 19-20: Diallo, Duke, Pipkins, all had multiple 20+ point games, Watson was in the upper teens 4-5 times, Reeves was north of 20 once, and had a few others where he was close, same situation with White.  It wasn't necessarily game over when Reeves only scored 5 against Texas (insert '82 Shaka reference here), or Watson only scored 2 against X (they won both games).  In 20-21, Watson can't have a stretch where he scores 6 or less in 6 straight games, Reeves can't lay a goose egg against Nova (and win), Duke can't lay a goose egg against Gtown and win. 

The probably won't need someone to go off as much as we needed our big 3 because they will be better than we were defensively that year, but in 17-18 both Markus and Rowsey averaged north of 20 ppg, and Sam had 8 games where he scored north of 20.  PC will need close to that level of production consistently from their big 3.

[mileskishnish72]

So is Cooley better than a guy who finishes 3-14, 8-9, 5-7, 8-8, 1-6, and 1-6?

[Golden Avalanche]

So is Cooley better than a guy who finishes 3-14, 8-9, 5-7, 8-8, 1-6, and 1-6?

Why did you choose 17 games, 17 games, 12 games, 16 games, seven games, and seven games as the measurement standard?

[Galway Eagle]

Why did you choose 17 games, 17 games, 12 games, 16 games, seven games, and seven games as the measurement standard?

Because He wanted to include both of the recent collapses but 8-8, 5-7, 8-9 looks a lot worse than 5-2, 4-3, 4-3. Some people are just intellectually dishonest.