COVID Economy

[pacearrow02]

He then reopened again, in October, for political reasons, despite the fact that science and health advisors indicated it would be a colossal mistake.

Led to 10's of thousands of more deaths, made Texas one of the worst off states in the country, and hid behind local government officials, who he eventually let add back closures after it was too late.

Still hasn't learned from his first two colossal mistakes. At what point does it become murder?

🤡

[forgetful]

🤡

I agree Abbott is a clown, glad you are finally coming to your senses.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

IDK, my guess is that we will see cases rise in places where rules have been lifted, but not to extent that the detractors suggest.  I guess we will see in a month. 

Anyway, going back to the $1.9 trillion bill, I am struck that unlike in 2008, the criticisms are largely about the size and focus of the bill.  Unlike 2008, it isn't about whether or not this is the appropriate role for government to play.  Economic libertarianism seems to be dead.

[MU82]

  ohh, you're talking way back last spring he opened, then closed-smart move.   one of the few who can think while he's walking.  and now reopened-don't know what the beef is..

now about that 1700 + dead?  don't know what context your in here 82

Yes, I'm referring to Abbott ignoring science last spring, contributing to the deaths of thousands of Texans, and then sheepishly having to reverse himself a month later. And, as Sultan said, he did it again in October, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of thousands more Texans.

And now he's doing it again, probably mostly to distract from his state's disastrous handling of the frozen grid -- the cause of which, Abbott being Abbott, he lied about repeatedly.

As to the evidence I'd like you to provide, it's for this paragraph of yours from yesterday:

between the vaccine and the herd immunity, we are getting darn near putting this thing in the category of catching just about anything else.

Well, 1,700+ Americans are still dying every day due to COVID-19. I'd like to see your evidence of a "just about anything else" virus in the last 50 years that killed 1,700+ Americans a day.

Just because you, Abbott and the deposed president want everybody to believe things are getting back to "normal," it doesn't mean it's a fact. 1,700+ Americans are still dying daily from COVID-19.

[Hards Alumni]

O, sew da science iz knot reel, hey?

What science are you even referencing?  Sure, vaccines will prevent the person who got it from showing covid symptoms, but there is not evidence yet to show that vaccinated people can't be vectors of transmission.

If we can show that people who are vaccinated don't spread the virus then I think we can talk about opening up more things, but we have no evidence one way or the other.  I know the world in lockdown is hard for you to mentally deal with, but if you want a world without this virus, just be a bit more patient and wait for the evidence so we don't have to start this process over from square one.  Wouldn't it be pretty awful to open everything up and then have a variant arise that our vaccines do nothing for?  And then we play the lockdown game again, and the vaccine creation game again, and have another wasted year of your already short life.

Be patient, we're almost there.

[pbiflyer]

I think we should start referring to 4eva as Veruca from now on.

[GooooMarquette]

Be patient, we're almost there.

Yep.

It's frustrating to see many people exercise a modicum of patience until they get their vaccines...then abruptly pivot to "reopen the world so I can live my life."

[4everwarriors]

There also is no evidence that those who are vaccinated harbor the virus, and certainly don't harbor enough to spread it.
I think it's nuts to carry on as if this is something to be concerned with, aka bullchit.

[tower912]

I feel that way about gingivitis.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There also is no evidence that those who are vaccinated harbor the virus, and certainly don't harbor enough to spread it.
I think it's nuts to carry on as if this id something to be concerned with, aka bullchit.

I’m sure forgetful or gooo could give examples, but this isn’t unprecedented.  I seem to remember reading that the original polio vaccine didn’t stop transmission.  By the way that disease also had a huge asymptotic issue with transmission/spread.

Ive also read works from virologists who believe it is very plausible that you can transmit because this is an upper respiratory virus and the immunity is not triggered in that area of your body. 

They are going to figure it out very soon or the number of people vaccinated will get to a point where it won’t matter.  I think promising data has already started coming out in that regard. 

But feel free complaining endlessly....carrying on and such. 

[Hards Alumni]

There also is no evidence that those who are vaccinated harbor the virus, and certainly don't harbor enough to spread it.
I think it's nuts to carry on as if this id something to be concerned with, aka bullchit.

Children are often ruled by their emotions.

Wait for the study, and stop being a selfish baby.

[GooooMarquette]

There also is no evidence that those who are vaccinated harbor the virus, and certainly don't harbor enough to spread it.
I think it's nuts to carry on as if this is something to be concerned with, aka bullchit.

So in the absence of data, just throw caution to the wind and assume the best? That isn’t very scientific for a ‘man of science.’ And it didn’t work very well for the previous occupant.

Wait for the data to show it is safe to resume business as usual. Until then, 500,000+ deaths suggest that caution is warranted.

[rocket surgeon]

So in the absence of data, just throw caution to the wind and assume the best? That isn’t very scientific for a ‘man of science.’ And it didn’t work very well for the previous occupant.

Wait for the data to show it is safe to resume business as usual. Until then, 500,000+ deaths suggest that caution is warranted.

   just a little reminder-previous "occupant" got us a vaccine(s) in unprecedented amount of time.  please don't make us compare with what we have now...oy vey

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

   just a little reminder-previous "occupant" got us a vaccine(s) in unprecedented amount of time.  please don't make us compare with what we have now...oy vey

I know you are simply trying REALLY HARD to believe that the guy in the White House now is simply sleepy and doesn't know what he's doing, but I think even someone like you realizes he is miles ahead of who occupied the place the last four years.

Or maybe you don't.  I don't care.

[🏀]

There also is no evidence that those who are vaccinated harbor the virus, and certainly don't harbor enough to spread it.
I think it's nuts to carry on as if this is something to be concerned with, aka bullchit.

Sun is getting real low for you, matter of time. I agree you should get out and enjoy it. Stop wearing a seatbelt and obeying red lights too.

Nature finds a way.

[GooooMarquette]

   just a little reminder-previous "occupant" got us a vaccine(s) in unprecedented amount of time.  please don't make us compare with what we have now...oy vey

Yes, he supported development of the vaccine and that was a very good thing. But he did an abysmal job of getting us prepared for the distribution. And as any healthcare provider knows, a vaccine only works when it gets put into someone’s arm.

If you want to give him credit for what he did well, you should also be prepared to acknowledge what he did very poorly.

[MU82]

Unlike Abbott and others, a GOP governor who gets it ...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/give-wearing-masks-covid-cases-fall-ohio-governor/story?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210307&id=76298110&instance_id=27836&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=52986&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Despite an increase in the number of people who have received COVID-19 vaccines, Americans should not stop wearing masks, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine said on ABC's "This Week" Sunday.

"With the vaccine, we're now on the offense, that's the great thing. But in Ohio, we can't give up the defense. We have found that these masks work exceedingly well. Schools are a prime example. We've seen it in retail ... we know that this makes a huge, huge difference," the Republican governor told "This Week" Co-anchor Martha Raddatz.

He said by the close of business Monday there will probably be over 2 million Ohioans who will have received their first vaccine dose and a million who have gotten the second dose.

"Every day gets better and better and better," he added.

Several GOP governors this past week began lifting mask mandates and further opening up businesses amid declining coronavirus infection rates, despite guidance from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention and the Biden administration.

Raddatz asked DeWine if he thought Texas Gov. Greg Abbott had made a political decision when he lifted the mask mandate and reopened businesses.

"I don't know what's going on in Texas," he said. "I got one state to worry about, that's Ohio. And that's -- that's a full-time job."

Raddatz followed up, pressing the governor, "You have also faced pressure to end the mask mandate. You're a conservative. Your constituents know the risks now. What's wrong with the argument that people will make up their own minds?"

"Throughout (the pandemic), we've really learned a lot. You know, when this started a year ago, no one had a clue how effective these masks were," DeWine responded.

DeWine reversed an order requiring masks in businesses and retail stores a day after implementing the mandate in April.

"It became very clear to me after we put out the order that everyone in retail who walked into a store as a customer would have to do that, it became clear to me that that was just a bridge too far that people were not going to accept the government telling them what to do," he said on "This Week" May 5. "And so we put out dozens and dozens of orders, that was one that it just went too far"

DeWine instituted a statewide mask mandate in Ohio on July 23, after weeks of issuing county-level mask mandates for areas deemed to be in the “red” zone.

"When we put the mask order on and actually started enforcing it ... we saw a significant drop in cases, a slow down. So we've seen it throughout this last year, these masks really, really work," he said Sunday.

The governor has not outlined a date for when the state's mask mandate would be lifted, instead announcing Thursday that all Ohio health orders would end once the state gets down to 50 cases per 100,000 residents for two weeks.

As of Wednesday, the statewide average for COVID-19 infections was about 180 cases per 100,000 residents for the last two weeks -- less than half the average from early February.

[🏀]

CDC says fully vaccinated people can gather without masks and social distancing.

Good news for 4ever who can now gather with the other egocentric 57-75 year old males while they eat each other's meat.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

CDC says fully vaccinated people can gather without masks and social distancing.

Good news for 4ever who can now gather with the other egocentric 57-75 year old males while they eat each other's meat.

More homophobic commentary from Mr Schmit's Gay.

[🏀]

More homophobic commentary from Mr Schmit's Gay.

I'm not the one that started the meat eaters, just carrying the water, friend.

[4everwarriors]

Pretty sure Ziggy's not your friend, kemosabe, hey?

[🏀]

Pretty sure Ziggy's not your friend, kemosabe, hey?

[pbiflyer]

   just a little reminder-previous "occupant" got us a vaccine(s) in unprecedented amount of time.  please don't make us compare with what we have now...oy vey

Which vaccine(s) exactly did he get? The Pfizer BioNTech vaccine, created in Germany, or the Astra Zeneca vaccine in the United Kingdom, or  the Janssen / Johnson & Johnson vaccine created in the Netherlands. Maybe Moderna, maybe. But even that was built on work of others outside the US.
There was and is a global effort to create, produce and distribute vaccines.
Businesses, scientists and money from the USA were all important, but it is fake news to claim that Operation Warp Speed created those vaccines all by itself.

[rocky_warrior]

Businesses, scientists and money from the USA were all important, but it is fake news to claim that Operation Warp Speed created those vaccines all by itself.

The "success" of warp speed was getting the contracts in place to purchase all the doses.  That was the real win in all of this.  I'll add that "sleepy" has also arranged for more.  But the initial contracts were a big win, Canada wishes they had them.
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/967194072/biden-announces-deal-for-200-million-more-covid-19-vaccines

[Galway Eagle]

The "success" of warp speed was getting the contracts in place to purchase all the doses.  That was the real win in all of this.  I'll add that "sleepy" has also arranged for more.  But the initial contracts were a big win, Canada wishes they had them.
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/967194072/biden-announces-deal-for-200-million-more-covid-19-vaccines

+1 I'm all for trashing the previous administrations mishandling of this (and there's plenty there) but you gotta give credit where it's due and getting those contracts in place was a major win for us.