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Author Topic: Vaccine/Antibody updates  (Read 357003 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #975 on: December 28, 2020, 10:03:17 PM »
You're not thinking this through.  If our HCWs and other who are essential are getting sick from covid then they can't do their ESSENTIAL jobs.  You used the example of a 24 year old getting the vaccine over a 65 year old... well if the 65 year old is sitting home or masking and going to the store and NOT doing all the irresponsible crap they shouldn't be doing, then they have low risk.  Meanwhile the 24 year old nurse is doing the best she can, working overtime to care for the 65 year olds who are running around town, going to bars, and seeing family.  If she gets sick, it puts her family at risk, and she can't do her job to care for people.  THIS PUTS THE 65 YEAR OLD AT RISK IN A DIFFERENT, BUT MORE DEADLY WAY.

Not to mention there are a hell of a lot less essential workers than there are 65+ year olds in Florida.  The issue here ISN'T the potential for death, its the potential for health care and essential worker collapse.

DeSantis knows who votes in Florida, and that there are a lot more 65+ voters than there are essential workers.  He did simple math, period.

You’re misrepresenting. HCW are at the front of the line in Florida and in my area have already received the first dose. But the 22 year old grocery clerk and the 40 year old teacher (who have almost no chance of dying from Covid) will now wait in line behind those 65+ instead of those 75+. And those between 65 and 74 are in much greater danger of death than those younger.

I have 4 kids, ages 36, 37, 39 and 42. They have kids. None of them voted for Trump and (if eligible) none of them would have voted for DeSantis. Two are deemed essential workers. But they’re aware that their parents (ages 69 and 72) are much more vulnerable to Covid than they are. They would all give up their place in line for a senior and are very grateful that their (at greater risk) parents will get the vaccine more quickly because they live in Florida. I recall that when your parents were stuck on that cruise ship you were very concerned. Assuming they’re both 72,  do you think that should wait until 118 million have been vaccinated to get the shot? Based on CDC guidelines that was the New York Times estimate for me. There are evidently a hell of a lot more workers deemed essential than you think.



Galway Eagle

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #976 on: December 28, 2020, 11:19:13 PM »
The line drawn for essential workers is ridiculous. My 39yr old sister and 68yr old mom are both getting vaccinated tomorrow because as nurses they're deemed essential... they run a medispa. Granted they did some volunteer work in clinics for a bit earlier on in the shut down but not anymore.

I don't know if every state is just saying "this person is a licensed medical professional of some sort so vaccinate them" but if so that's ridiculous and we could've done better.
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mu_hilltopper

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #977 on: December 29, 2020, 08:59:18 AM »
I hadn't noticed until now .. one of the triggers to be in the Phase 1c vaccine group?

Being a past or current smoker.

I guess I can stop trying to be obese now.  I smoked a few cigars years ago.  Or not, but who would know?

Maybe I'll buy a pack of Lucky's on the way to the vaccination, just to be safe.

MUBurrow

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #978 on: December 29, 2020, 09:22:15 AM »
The line drawn for essential workers is ridiculous. My 39yr old sister and 68yr old mom are both getting vaccinated tomorrow because as nurses they're deemed essential... they run a medispa. Granted they did some volunteer work in clinics for a bit earlier on in the shut down but not anymore.

I don't know if every state is just saying "this person is a licensed medical professional of some sort so vaccinate them" but if so that's ridiculous and we could've done better.

I actually think the bolded is fine.  We just need to to do our best to get this as right as we can, and the red tape of "Are you a medical professional? Do you work in a REAL healthcare setting? If not would you consider working temporarily in a covid unit if we have a shortage?" and on and on isn't worth the delay just to reorder when two people get their doses.  Set your categories, work them through, and just hope you get it mostly right.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #979 on: December 29, 2020, 10:02:31 AM »
You’re misrepresenting. HCW are at the front of the line in Florida and in my area have already received the first dose. But the 22 year old grocery clerk and the 40 year old teacher (who have almost no chance of dying from Covid) will now wait in line behind those 65+ instead of those 75+. And those between 65 and 74 are in much greater danger of death than those younger.

I have 4 kids, ages 36, 37, 39 and 42. They have kids. None of them voted for Trump and (if eligible) none of them would have voted for DeSantis. Two are deemed essential workers. But they’re aware that their parents (ages 69 and 72) are much more vulnerable to Covid than they are. They would all give up their place in line for a senior and are very grateful that their (at greater risk) parents will get the vaccine more quickly because they live in Florida. I recall that when your parents were stuck on that cruise ship you were very concerned. Assuming they’re both 72,  do you think that should wait until 118 million have been vaccinated to get the shot? Based on CDC guidelines that was the New York Times estimate for me. There are evidently a hell of a lot more workers deemed essential than you think.

I'm not misrepresenting.  I didn't say just HCW's either.  I said essential employees.  My parents got covid and were asymptomatic.  Furthermore, we discussed this, and had they not gotten covid they wouldn't put themselves before essential workers.  Their lives are barely affected by the virus.  Except for going on vacation outside of the US... which no one will be doing for the foreseeable future.  We need to vaccinate our HCWs, supply chain, and essential services workers asap.  When I say this, I don't mean the crazy crap that we have considered 'essential' over the last 9 months.  I'm talking about actually essential... like society breaks down without them.  If you want me to be specific, I can be.  But as a simple example, daycare teachers and teachers are absolutely essential.  If you vaccinate one of these people, you bring down the spread, and you take secure society.  People who IF they get sick cannot easily be replaced.  I'm talking disruption of society vs another month of grandma doing what she has been doing for the last 9 months. 

I'll use your example of a 40 year old teacher.  Teacher gets sick and school has to find a sub... except there isn't a pool for those right now.  So those 30 kids from that class don't have a teacher for a week or two.  Okay, so they stay home now?  Parent's need to find a place for those kids to stay.  I'm sure that a lot of people can find somewhere for their kid for a day or two, but two weeks off is financially crippling to a lot of families.  Especially at the drop of a hat.  So as a result, mom or dad has to stay home with the kid for a week or two while teacher recovers.  So now, how many people has one teacher getting sick affected?  Of course, no one dies, but there is probably another family that is slipping closer or deeper into poverty.  And we've made this decision so that grandma can get a hug?  I don't get it.  Where is your logic.  If grandma has been able to weather the storm for 9 months, and knows the techniques for making herself safe then why is she a priority?  Her chance of getting covid is low already.  So why rush her a vaccine?

Additionally, I think it is quite telling to see the people who were harping how we 'cant shut down the economy' think that retirees who can literally shelter in place for months NEED the vaccine first.  It would be funny, if it weren't such a ME FIRST boomer mentality.  You guys have had everything handed to your generation your entire lives... why stop now!  It was all about saving the economy for months, and now its all about saving people.  What a total crock of sh!t.

forgetful

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #980 on: December 29, 2020, 10:37:51 AM »
Some on here, and De Santis (and other governors) are trying to over-simplify the calculus on saving lives.

The best way to save lives is to stop the spread. The CDC closely examines which populations are contributing most to the spread. Those are the essential workers, who are unable to stay home and WFH.

If there is no spread their can't be deaths.

The best way to save lives is:

1. Mandate WFH if possible. Emphasize that those 65+ who have retired should be sheltering in place as best as possible.

2. Vaccinate all front-line health personnel, this should/must include police, firemen, EMTs. That must not include administrators, staff, etc., that work from home and have zero patient interaction.

3. Vaccinate all nursing home patients, or those requiring in home care, who are especially vulnerable to severe illness.

4. Vaccinate all other essential persons, e.g food industry, teachers, etc., that are being mandated to work in person regardless of health risks.

5. Vaccinate the rest of the population starting with most vulnerable first.

This strategy allows one to protect the elderly, provided they follow WFH and shelter in place rules, and stop the spread to begin with.

That CDC policy, both saves the most lives, and gets us out of this pandemic faster and with less impact on the economy. It requires those more at risk to ride this out at home, where they are safe for about 4 more months.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #981 on: December 29, 2020, 11:18:43 AM »
I’m 65+, retired,  with no other high risk factors. I’d be pretty much good with that vaccine priority.
I might push employed 65+ people who cannot WFH into a category like essential workers,  though they might be there already.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #982 on: December 29, 2020, 11:46:21 AM »
My 39yr old sister and 68yr old mom are both getting vaccinated tomorrow because as nurses they're deemed essential... they run a medispa.

Curious...what state?  This seems to be a crapshoot depending on state.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #983 on: December 29, 2020, 12:11:03 PM »
Curious...what state?  This seems to be a crapshoot depending on state.

Arizona, I suppose in Scottsdale Botox and lasers are medical necessities
Maigh Eo for Sam

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #984 on: December 29, 2020, 12:15:12 PM »
Instead of worrying so much about WHO gets vaccinated, how about worrying about HOW we get people vaccinated?

At the current pace, we are looking at close to a decade to get everyone vaccinated.

I realize we will replace a madman with a real president in 22 days (the coup attempt will fail), but we need to pick up the pace dramatically.

MUBurrow

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #985 on: December 29, 2020, 12:43:35 PM »
Arizona, I suppose in Scottsdale Botox and lasers are medical necessities

You wouldnt want to see what happens to that place without them!!

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #986 on: December 29, 2020, 12:55:23 PM »
I hadn't noticed until now .. one of the triggers to be in the Phase 1c vaccine group?

Being a past or current smoker.

I guess I can stop trying to be obese now.  I smoked a few cigars years ago.  Or not, but who would know?

Maybe I'll buy a pack of Lucky's on the way to the vaccination, just to be safe.


Excellent. I breathed in scads of secondhand smoke from the 60s through the 80s, and we know that smoke doesn't become any less toxic just because someone else is holding the cigarette. Former smoker here.

I'm gonna go put on my parka and get in line!

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #987 on: December 29, 2020, 12:59:46 PM »

Some on here, and De Santis (and other governors) are trying to over-simplify the calculus on saving lives.

The best way to save lives is to stop the spread. The CDC closely examines which populations are contributing most to the spread. Those are the essential workers, who are unable to stay home and WFH.



Yep. I tried to emphasize the complexity of the task and the unique position of the CDC to best assess all the moving parts earlier, but my post went largely unnoticed.

Your post does an excellent job of fleshing out more of the details. Hopefully it will help more people understand...

jesmu84

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Galway Eagle

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #989 on: December 29, 2020, 01:37:45 PM »
Maigh Eo for Sam

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #990 on: December 29, 2020, 02:13:24 PM »
We were promised 20,000,000 vaccinations by Thursday.

We will barely be 10% of that.

jesmu84

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #991 on: December 29, 2020, 02:27:30 PM »
It is 3 pts out of 30,000 and the filler is not identified.

Got it. I won't share vaccine info any more.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #992 on: December 29, 2020, 07:00:12 PM »
[quote author=Hards_Alumni link=topic=60399.msg1292309#msg1292309 date=1609257751

Additionally, I think it is quite telling to see the people who were harping how we 'cant shut down the economy' think that retirees who can literally shelter in place for months NEED the vaccine first.  It would be funny, if it weren't such a ME FIRST boomer mentality.  You guys have had everything handed to your generation your entire lives... why stop now!  It was all about saving the economy for months, and now its all about saving people.  What a total crock of sh!t.
[/quote]


Hards

I started on the CBOE as a runner making $500 a month. Left the firm I worked for 6 years later, borrowed money from a bank to open a trading account, leased a seat and went to work for myself. I was barely 30 and already had one of four kids and a wife to support. Nothing was “handed” to me, and there were plenty of ups and downs. I’m grateful for all of them, but mostly for my family and the friends I made along the way. Your hatred of my (and your parent’s) generation puzzles me. Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you given the family business to run by your parents? I would think gratitude rather than bitterness would be what you feel towards those boomers.

Re the Covid, this board has scores of posts on the horrendous death count. We know who it kills. Florida has a plan that will better protect those people - which I thought was the idea. I guess it’s not for you - off with their heads, death to the entitled!


Edit: I’m told you work in your in-laws family business, not your parent’s. Sorry for the misstatement but the point still stands.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 09:41:40 PM by Lennys Tap »

reinko

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #993 on: December 29, 2020, 07:18:55 PM »
[quote author=Hards_Alumni link=topic=60399.msg1292309#msg1292309 date=1609257751

Additionally, I think it is quite telling to see the people who were harping how we 'cant shut down the economy' think that retirees who can literally shelter in place for months NEED the vaccine first.  It would be funny, if it weren't such a ME FIRST boomer mentality.  You guys have had everything handed to your generation your entire lives... why stop now!  It was all about saving the economy for months, and now its all about saving people.  What a total crock of sh!t.



Hards

I started on the CBOE as a runner making $500 a month. Left the firm I worked for 6 years later, borrowed money from a bank to open a trading account, leased a seat and went to work for myself. I was barely 30 and already had one of four kids and a wife to support. Nothing was “handed” to me, and there were plenty of ups and downs. I’m grateful for all of them, but mostly for my family and the friends I made along the way. Your hatred of my (and your parent’s) generation puzzles me. Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you given the family business to run by your parents? I would think gratitude rather than bitterness would be what you feel towards those boomers.

Re the Covid, this board has scores of posts on the horrendous death count. We know who it kills. Florida has a plan that will better protect those people - which I thought was the idea. I guess it’s not for you - off with their heads, death to the entitled!

Says the guy who says he doesn’t care about motive anymore, yet this new rule just by happenstance benefits YOU.

MU82

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #994 on: December 29, 2020, 08:10:19 PM »
Not sure where all the over-generalizations about and resentment toward Boomers is coming from. It’s a form of bigotry.

And I say the same about those who harp on Millennials. It’s stupid, unproductive and quite often wrong.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

🏀

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #995 on: December 29, 2020, 08:18:33 PM »
Says the guy who says he doesn’t care about motive anymore, yet this new rule just by happenstance benefits YOU.


It’s high comedy from the Tap. Just bask in the egotism.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #996 on: December 29, 2020, 08:56:16 PM »
Says the guy who says he doesn’t care about motive anymore, yet this new rule just by happenstance benefits YOU.

Do the 4000 black men freed due to the Prison Reform Bill have to oppose it on philosophical grounds because it benefits them? Is it logical to oppose a policy that makes sense just because you may benefit? Mean spirited nonsense.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #997 on: December 29, 2020, 09:01:13 PM »
It’s high comedy from the Tap. Just bask in the egotism.

Sorry if I blew my own horn too loudly. But when Hards accused me of stealing his birthright I thought it was fair to set the record straight.

reinko

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #998 on: December 29, 2020, 10:01:21 PM »
Do the 4000 black men freed due to the Prison Reform Bill have to oppose it on philosophical grounds because it benefits them? Is it logical to oppose a policy that makes sense just because you may benefit? Mean spirited nonsense.

A 70 year old white dude using Black men as a straw man for a bullcrap argument.  Lenny, you went down a weird twisted path the last 10 months.  Congrats you can get a vaccine before my daughters teacher while she sits in front of computer for the next 5 months, but you and the Mrs can go to your Del Boca Vista clubhouse for happy hour 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

edit: no ban, just edited.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 10:51:25 PM by rocky_warrior »

Hards Alumni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #999 on: December 30, 2020, 12:47:05 AM »
[quote author=Hards_Alumni link=topic=60399.msg1292309#msg1292309 date=1609257751

Additionally, I think it is quite telling to see the people who were harping how we 'cant shut down the economy' think that retirees who can literally shelter in place for months NEED the vaccine first.  It would be funny, if it weren't such a ME FIRST boomer mentality.  You guys have had everything handed to your generation your entire lives... why stop now!  It was all about saving the economy for months, and now its all about saving people.  What a total crock of sh!t.



Hards

I started on the CBOE as a runner making $500 a month. Left the firm I worked for 6 years later, borrowed money from a bank to open a trading account, leased a seat and went to work for myself. I was barely 30 and already had one of four kids and a wife to support. Nothing was “handed” to me, and there were plenty of ups and downs. I’m grateful for all of them, but mostly for my family and the friends I made along the way. Your hatred of my (and your parent’s) generation puzzles me. Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you given the family business to run by your parents? I would think gratitude rather than bitterness would be what you feel towards those boomers.

Re the Covid, this board has scores of posts on the horrendous death count. We know who it kills. Florida has a plan that will better protect those people - which I thought was the idea. I guess it’s not for you - off with their heads, death to the entitled!


Edit: I’m told you work in your in-laws family business, not your parent’s. Sorry for the misstatement but the point still stands.

Odd that  you can read, but can't comprehend.  Reread my post, Lenny, and come back with a substantive argument.  You're being pedantic to disagree for disagreements sake.

 

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