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Author Topic: Vaccine/Antibody updates  (Read 357327 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #950 on: December 26, 2020, 10:05:06 PM »
The cynic in me believes that DeSantis is only concerned with how the seniors vote. The fact that he made this announcement in The Villages is very telling.

The cynic in me believes that there’s a political consideration in every one of their utterances. If they were altruists they never would have become politicians in the first place. His motives are his motives - I don’t know and couldn’t care less. The policy is what I care about. It’s a departure from what the CDC is recommending and IMO a sensible one that will save lives. Isn’t that what we’re trying to do?

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #951 on: December 26, 2020, 10:20:54 PM »
So he’s smarter or has better judgement than the cdc in your opinion. Look I am not debating order. Everyone has to determine the rollout thanks to our system. But to exalt a governor points to something unclear as to why FL is different.


I’m not “exalting” anyone. But I do, I guess, exalt the fact that there are some people who haven’t completely abdicated basic judgement and common sense to government agencies because they are manned by “experts”. Listen to them, sure. But are they above being questioned? Are they speaking ex cathedral? C’mon, Frenns - you know better than that.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #952 on: December 27, 2020, 05:44:48 AM »

I’m not “exalting” anyone. But I do, I guess, exalt the fact that there are some people who haven’t completely abdicated basic judgement and common sense to government agencies because they are manned by “experts”. Listen to them, sure. But are they above being questioned? Are they speaking ex cathedral? C’mon, Frenns - you know better than that.

Nm

Sorry for the diversion. 

« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 06:17:09 AM by Frenns Liquor Depot »

reinko

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #953 on: December 27, 2020, 06:46:23 AM »
The cynic in me believes that there’s a political consideration in every one of their utterances. If they were altruists they never would have become politicians in the first place. His motives are his motives - I don’t know and couldn’t care less. The policy is what I care about. It’s a departure from what the CDC is recommending and IMO a sensible one that will save lives. Isn’t that what we’re trying to do?

When you stop caring about the motives of people’s actions, methinks you might need some introspection.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #954 on: December 27, 2020, 07:32:26 AM »
When you stop caring about the motives of people’s actions, methinks you might need some introspection.

When you stop listening to common sense, life saving ideas because of a political bias that you (in your infinite wisdom) think “might” be self serving, methinks you might need more than some introspection.

reinko

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #955 on: December 27, 2020, 07:45:58 AM »
When you stop listening to common sense, life saving ideas because of a political bias that you (in your infinite wisdom) think “might” be self serving, methinks you might need more than some introspection.

Did you notice, I didn’t attack DeSantis’s plan, it could very well be the right one.  I’m not an infectious disease expert, but my point was, you said you didn’t care about his motives...they could self-serving, self-less, my guess is probably somewhere in the middle.

 I just think it’s a slippery slope, that what I implied from your comment is well, I agree with what xxx politician said, so I don’t care what their motives are and in the end it doesn’t really matter, because I think they’re right.

Honest question, do you question the motives of politicians you disagree with?

pbiflyer

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #956 on: December 27, 2020, 08:01:42 AM »
I assume he has the same information as the CDC - just a little more common sense. That information shows that Covid is most lethal to those 75+. Next at greatest risk are those 65-74. So, after long term care facility workers and staff, health care workers with direct patient contact and people hospitals deem extremely vulnerable to Covid 19 are vaccinated it goes to the general population. Here, that will be seniors 65+ (rather than those 75+) followed by those deemed essential workers (firemen, school teachers, grocery clerks, etc). If the object is less deaths, moving the 65-74 group up in priority certainly makes sense. He’s an “essential worker”, of course, but will wait in line until the most vulnerable have been served. Good for him.

He has also said no essential workers like police, first responders, teachers have priority.

Oh, and he SAID a lot of things, but Florida has no real plan. Well, other than making sure all The Villages got their shots first. Wonder why that is a priority? Meanwhile my 96 yo WWII vet dad waits.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #957 on: December 27, 2020, 08:06:15 AM »
He has also said no essential workers like police, first responders, teachers have priority.

Oh, and he SAID a lot of things, but Florida has no real plan. Well, other than making sure all The Villages got their shots first. Wonder why that is a priority? Meanwhile my 96 yo WWII vet dad waits.

That was my point earlier.  I don’t know the right order and a group of infectious disease experts got together and made a recommendation. Now everyone is making the “common sense calls”

Just feels like another step of ignoring the cdc.  Which has not really worked that well so far. 

Lennys Tap

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #958 on: December 27, 2020, 09:15:24 AM »
That was my point earlier.  I don’t know the right order and a group of infectious disease experts got together and made a recommendation. Now everyone is making the “common sense calls”

Just feels like another step of ignoring the cdc.  Which has not really worked that well so far.

We know who Covid kills and who it doesn’t. The CDC is one of the sources of that knowledge. That doesn’t make them policy experts. If the goal of the vaccine is to save lives why should people at almost no risk be put in front of people 6x, 10x or more likely to die if they contract it? Sorry, but “because the CDC (at this point, anyway) says so” isn’t a good enough reason for more needless and preventable deaths. That this is even debatable blows my mind.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #959 on: December 27, 2020, 09:18:27 AM »
We know who Covid kills and who it doesn’t. The CDC is one of the sources of that knowledge. That doesn’t make them policy experts. If the goal of the vaccine is to save lives why should people at almost no risk be put in front of people 6x, 10x or more likely to die if they contract it? Sorry, but “because the CDC (at this point, anyway) says so” isn’t a good enough reason for more needless and preventable deaths. That this is even debatable blows my mind.

I don’t know.  Maybe you should research their logic rather than just shooting from the hip.

Everyone isn’t as lucky as we are and preventing community spread or controlling a pandemic is not just binary based on your or my hot take. 

jesmu84

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #960 on: December 27, 2020, 09:25:40 AM »
We know who Covid kills and who it doesn’t. The CDC is one of the sources of that knowledge. That doesn’t make them policy experts. If the goal of the vaccine is to save lives why should people at almost no risk be put in front of people 6x, 10x or more likely to die if they contract it? Sorry, but “because the CDC (at this point, anyway) says so” isn’t a good enough reason for more needless and preventable deaths. That this is even debatable blows my mind.

Shouldn't there be a happy medium between at-risk patients and essential workforce so spread decreases?

Otherwise, the economy is going to suffer because we can't open up as quickly as we otherwise could. If you give all available vaccine to retirees, we're not opening up anytime soon.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #961 on: December 27, 2020, 09:32:03 AM »
That this is even debatable blows my mind.
I've felt that way for 10 months.  Or, in the spirit of the season, 'Welcome to the party, pal'.   

But I am going to assume we could endlessly debate that which neither of us sees as debatable.

Be safe, Lenny.   Get that vaccine as soon as you can.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #962 on: December 27, 2020, 11:30:17 AM »
I have friends who winter in the Villages, so I hear a lot about what goes on there.  If we are already mad at the politicians who downplayed the virus and are getting vaccinated ahead of essential workers, we should be equally mad at the retirees down there who still insist on maskless gatherings and also downplayed the virus getting the vaccine ahead of essential workers.  Many people there take zero precautions and sneer at those who do.  But I suppose if it protects the grocery and other workers there to have the seniors get it first, then maybe there is a silver lining. 

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #963 on: December 27, 2020, 12:02:01 PM »
My wife has said she will take half of everything before she lets us move there.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #964 on: December 27, 2020, 01:24:09 PM »
I have a friend in the Miami area who inherited her father’s house there. She rents it out for the winter, and otherwise they go there to golf. Every time she mentions maybe moving there because of the golf and all the clubs and activities, her husband is like, over my dead body.....

4everwarriors

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #965 on: December 27, 2020, 01:55:56 PM »
My wife has said she will take half of everything before she lets us move there.








Take dat deel, kin. Ya kan allweys hook up wit a rich widow down der, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #966 on: December 27, 2020, 02:00:19 PM »
Nope.   I would rather have her than be rich.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

🏀

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #967 on: December 27, 2020, 11:20:04 PM »
We know who Covid kills and who it doesn’t. The CDC is one of the sources of that knowledge. That doesn’t make them policy experts. If the goal of the vaccine is to save lives why should people at almost no risk be put in front of people 6x, 10x or more likely to die if they contract it? Sorry, but “because the CDC (at this point, anyway) says so” isn’t a good enough reason for more needless and preventable deaths. That this is even debatable blows my mind.

Probably because they’re more important to society.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #968 on: December 28, 2020, 09:09:32 AM »
We know who Covid kills and who it doesn’t. The CDC is one of the sources of that knowledge. That doesn’t make them policy experts. If the goal of the vaccine is to save lives why should people at almost no risk be put in front of people 6x, 10x or more likely to die if they contract it? Sorry, but “because the CDC (at this point, anyway) says so” isn’t a good enough reason for more needless and preventable deaths. That this is even debatable blows my mind.


During a pandemic that is killing some people, making others very sick, overwhelming our hospitals and spreading like wildfire, saving lives is a complex calculus involving (1) controlling the spread; (2) protecting those who care for the most severely affected, and (3) preventing the most vulnerable. The CDC has the most knowledge about how to balance all of these factors.

Sorry if this blows your mind.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #969 on: December 28, 2020, 10:12:16 AM »
We know who Covid kills and who it doesn’t. The CDC is one of the sources of that knowledge. That doesn’t make them policy experts. If the goal of the vaccine is to save lives why should people at almost no risk be put in front of people 6x, 10x or more likely to die if they contract it? Sorry, but “because the CDC (at this point, anyway) says so” isn’t a good enough reason for more needless and preventable deaths. That this is even debatable blows my mind.

You're not thinking this through.  If our HCWs and other who are essential are getting sick from covid then they can't do their ESSENTIAL jobs.  You used the example of a 24 year old getting the vaccine over a 65 year old... well if the 65 year old is sitting home or masking and going to the store and NOT doing all the irresponsible crap they shouldn't be doing, then they have low risk.  Meanwhile the 24 year old nurse is doing the best she can, working overtime to care for the 65 year olds who are running around town, going to bars, and seeing family.  If she gets sick, it puts her family at risk, and she can't do her job to care for people.  THIS PUTS THE 65 YEAR OLD AT RISK IN A DIFFERENT, BUT MORE DEADLY WAY.

Not to mention there are a hell of a lot less essential workers than there are 65+ year olds in Florida.  The issue here ISN'T the potential for death, its the potential for health care and essential worker collapse.

DeSantis knows who votes in Florida, and that there are a lot more 65+ voters than there are essential workers.  He did simple math, period.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #970 on: December 28, 2020, 11:45:00 AM »
Biden will invoke Defense Production Act to boost Covid vaccine production, advisor says
PUBLISHED MON, DEC 28 20209:41 AM ESTUPDATED MON, DEC 28 20209:56


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/28/biden-will-invoke-defense-production-act-to-boost-covid-vaccine-production-advisor-says.html

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #971 on: December 28, 2020, 12:05:25 PM »
Biden will invoke Defense Production Act to boost Covid vaccine production, advisor says
PUBLISHED MON, DEC 28 20209:41 AM ESTUPDATED MON, DEC 28 20209:56


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/28/biden-will-invoke-defense-production-act-to-boost-covid-vaccine-production-advisor-says.html

That doesn’t make Biden a genius. Anyone with any intelligence at all would do the same. Hence, that is the reason it hasn’t been done.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #972 on: December 28, 2020, 12:46:55 PM »
No, he's not.   Nor is he a miracle worker.    But he is actually going to make an effort and attempt to lead.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 01:58:43 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #973 on: December 28, 2020, 01:28:42 PM »
No, he's not.   Nor is be a miracle worker.    But he is actually going to make an effort and attempt to lead.

Exactly. If he had been president last January, this country would be quite different.

MU82

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #974 on: December 28, 2020, 02:02:14 PM »
In Trump's defense (a phrase I don't invoke often), there was a lot we didn't know in January and February; even Fauci and other experts got some things wrong. And Trump actually was pretty engaged (for him, anyway). He did close off some of the travel from China, and he did buy into states shutting down in mid-March. One could argue that he should have acted more quickly, that he shouldn't have scrapped Obama's pandemic playbook and staff, that he should have been as honest with the American public as he was with Bob Woodward, etc, but he at least pretended the virus actually was a threat.

It was in mid-April that he fell off the rails. He encouraged thugs to protest violently against states that hadn't met his own guidelines. Then he sent Jared out on April 29 to declare victory over COVID-19. Then he started referring to the virus by racist names. Then he got wackier and wackier in regards to potential treatments/preventatives. Then he conducted a misinformation campaign against masks and social distancing. Then he resumed deadly super-spreader rallies.Then he said COVID-19 "affects virtually nobody." Etc, etc, etc.

Objectively, while Trump's response was flawed at first, at least he seemed willing to try to lead. It was in mid-April that the epic failure began, and more than 300K Americans have died since then. If we had an effective leader who cared about anybody but himself, how many of those lives might have been saved?

Ultimately, in addition to the deaths and sickness and jobs lost and businesses shuttered forever, his failure cost him the presidency.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

 

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