Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)

[Jockey]

Wait for the scandal involving Kodak after trump "mysteriously" chose them yesterday to produce ingredients for pharmaceuticals.

[Coleman]

Wait for the scandal involving Kodak after trump "mysteriously" chose them yesterday to produce ingredients for pharmaceuticals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/hzsgwo/wtf_is_kodak/

[Jockey]

Kodak stock volume has ranged from 52k to 215k shares per day since July 1. On Monday, the day before WH announcement, 1,645,000 shares traded hands.

[Coleman]

Kodak stock volume has ranged from 52k to 215k shares per day since July 1. On Monday, the day before WH announcement, 1,645,000 shares traded hands.

Gotta make that money before America votes you out.

[jesmu84]

Wait for the scandal involving Kodak after trump "mysteriously" chose them yesterday to produce ingredients for pharmaceuticals.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60696.0

[Hards Alumni]

I'd like to hear forgetful and Gooooo's thoughts on this study. Having adequate levels of vitamin D is good in and of itself, so it can't hurt (unless, as flyer said, you take too much), but it reading the article it sure sounds to me like there is a chance this is correlation rather than causation.

Many Americans are D deficient.  Better to take your day's worth even in non covid times.  D is fat soluble so you CAN go overboard, but it takes quite a bit to get to toxic levels.

IIRC having adequate vit D has shown to cause covid to be less severe.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Can't fix stupid

https://twitter.com/THEHermanCain/status/1279148294816428032
More being discovered about the positive results from Hydroxychloroquine.

Gohmert Says He Will Take Hydroxychloroquine For COVID-19, Flouting FDA Warning
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) said after testing positive for coronavirus Wednesday that he will take an anti-malaria drug as treatment, flouting the wisdom of experts who have cautioned against its use for COVID-19.

"My doctor and I are all in," Gohmert said. - TPM

[MarquetteDano]

Can't fix stupid

https://twitter.com/THEHermanCain/status/1279148294816428032
More being discovered about the positive results from Hydroxychloroquine.

Gohmert Says He Will Take Hydroxychloroquine For COVID-19, Flouting FDA Warning
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) said after testing positive for coronavirus Wednesday that he will take an anti-malaria drug as treatment, flouting the wisdom of experts who have cautioned against its use for COVID-19.

"My doctor and I are all in," Gohmert said. - TPM

As long as Gohmert really uses this stuff.  I think it would worse if Gohmert touted Hydroxy then secretly did not use it.  At least he is standing by his statements.  I know the science isn't looking good for the stuff but hypocrites who tout it and do something else are worse.

[Coleman]

As long as Gohmert really uses this stuff.  I think it would worse if Gohmert touted Hydroxy then secretly did not use it.  At least he is standing by his statements.  I know the science isn't looking good for the stuff but hypocrites who tout it and do something else are worse.

Except that he has a mild case (no symptoms), and will probably end up recovering very quickly, which will give undue credence to the drug.

[pacearrow02]

Except that he has a mild case (no symptoms), and will probably end up recovering very quickly, which will give undue credence to the drug.

Haha, that's the whole point of the drug.  When given early before the disease has had a chance to attack the body it is supposed to prevent it from further attacking normal cells.

At least that's my layman understanding of it.  Unlike the VA study and others where it was given to patients who were already in rough shape it won't be very effective.

[forgetful]

Haha, that's the whole point of the drug.  When given early before the disease has had a chance to attack the body it is supposed to prevent it from further attacking normal cells.

At least that's my layman understanding of it.  Unlike the VA study and others where it was given to patients who were already in rough shape it won't be very effective.

Let's go through some chronology on HCQ claims:

Claimants: HCQ cures and prevents COVID
Scientists: We studied this claim in a clinical controlled study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you forgot to include Azithromycin, that's the key.
Scientists: We studied the combination of HCQ and Azithromycin in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit but can lead to an increase in heart abnormalities.
Claimants: Well Azithromycin really isn't necessary, but you forgot the Zinc, the Zinc is the real key.
Scientists: We examined the addition of Zinc in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you aren't giving it early enough.
Scientists: We've studied it in controlled clinical studies as prophylaxis, and at different stages of treatment and found it has no benefit.

Claimants: Well what about these reports from doctors who claim it works for them.
Scientists: Those aren't controlled studies. They are anecdotal reports and/or retrospective analyses without proper data controls. We'd love for this to work, but we need to follow the data.

Claimants: See, you scientists are just trying to destroy the country by hiding a treatment from us that clearly works.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Haha, that's the whole point of the drug.  When given early before the disease has had a chance to attack the body it is supposed to prevent it from further attacking normal cells.

At least that's my layman understanding of it.  Unlike the VA study and others where it was given to patients who were already in rough shape it won't be very effective.

Deploying early is very important. Thankfully I deployed my anti-alien forcefield at the edge of the solar system before the aliens could invade. It has been 100% effective. You're welcome.

Logic.

[pacearrow02]

Let's go through some chronology on HCQ claims:

Claimants: HCQ cures and prevents COVID
Scientists: We studied this claim in a clinical controlled study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you forgot to include Azithromycin, that's the key.
Scientists: We studied the combination of HCQ and Azithromycin in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit but can lead to an increase in heart abnormalities.
Claimants: Well Azithromycin really isn't necessary, but you forgot the Zinc, the Zinc is the real key.
Scientists: We examined the addition of Zinc in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you aren't giving it early enough.
Scientists: We've studied it in controlled clinical studies as prophylaxis, and at different stages of treatment and found it has no benefit.

Claimants: Well what about these reports from doctors who claim it works for them.
Scientists: Those aren't controlled studies. They are anecdotal reports and/or retrospective analyses without proper data controls. We'd love for this to work, but we need to follow the data.

Claimants: See, you scientists are just trying to destroy the country by hiding a treatment from us that clearly works.

There must have been enough evidence for the scientists to keep looking right?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

There must have been enough evidence for the scientists to keep looking right?

Atta boy. Don't let facts or science get in the way of your belief.

"All the experiments failed, sir."
"Well, doesn't the fact that they even ran the experiments *prove* its real?"

Never give up, cheeks.

[pacearrow02]

Atta boy. Don't let facts or science get in the way of your belief.

I'm just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn't going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?

[Galway Eagle]

There must have been enough evidence for the scientists to keep looking right?

That's why I keep taking snake oil. Sure there's loads of evidence it does nothing but I just don't think the right conditions for the benefits have been met yet.

I'm just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn't going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?

Because it was politicized and so people both physician and patient alike have fully bought into the hype without actual data.

[Coleman]

I'm just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn't going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?

[forgetful]

I'm just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn't going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?

No one has ever said the scientific trials weren't justified. Everyone on here said, to try all possible treatments. As Tower say's "keep sciencing". I've even spelled out on here the historic evidence for why this was examine in the first place (re. SARS cellular studies).

Where there has been criticism is in two places:

1) The President and the right politicizing COVID treatments, and prioritizing one treatment with weak evidence to support it above all others. That puts Americans at risk, and contaminates the scientific process. Scientists though ignored the politics, and tried everything anyway.

2) After all the scientific work was done, a complete refusal to accept the scientific results. Instead to constantly move the goalposts, instead of possibly accepting it just didn't work, and saying it was worth the try.

Why don't we see the same fire and drive for other possible treatments from those on the right, e.g. ivermectin, quercetin, lopinavir, nafamostat, and others.

[cheebs09]

I'm not very familiar with scientific studies, but is it fair to say if someone has the money to fund and you have people willing to conduct the study, you can study anything? Kind of like you just need x amount of money to file charges against someone, no matter how crazy?

I'm sure there's also some value in studies that show this doesn't work based on the narrative. Hopefully it does work, but so far it doesn't seem like there's much showing it does.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm not very familiar with scientific studies, but is it fair to say if someone has the money to fund and you have people willing to conduct the study, you can study anything? Kind of like you just need x amount of money to file charges against someone, no matter how crazy?

I'm sure there's also some value in studies that show this doesn't work based on the narrative. Hopefully it does work, but so far it doesn't seem like there's much showing it does.

This is also a large part of it.

The people who bought the HCQ need to offload it somewhere.  Rich people don't become rich by working harder, typically.

[pacearrow02]

No one has ever said the scientific trials weren't justified. Everyone on here said, to try all possible treatments. As Tower say's "keep sciencing". I've even spelled out on here the historic evidence for why this was examine in the first place (re. SARS cellular studies).

Where there has been criticism is in two places:

1) The President and the right politicizing COVID treatments, and prioritizing one treatment with weak evidence to support it above all others. That puts Americans at risk, and contaminates the scientific process. Scientists though ignored the politics, and tried everything anyway.

2) After all the scientific work was done, a complete refusal to accept the scientific results. Instead to constantly move the goalposts, instead of possibly accepting it just didn't work, and saying it was worth the try.

Why don't we see the same fire and drive for other possible treatments from those on the right, e.g. ivermectin, quercetin, lopinavir, nafamostat, and others.

That's fair analysis, I would suggest it was politicized both from the right and left though.  The whole fish tank cleaner debacle was when things started to get nasty around HCG (imo) and that was driven by the left To make it appear republicans were killing people.

Not sure why there isn't more excitement or dialogue around the other treatments.  I honestly would love to learn more about them, do they seem to be working?

[Hards Alumni]

That's fair analysis, I would suggest it was politicized both from the right and left though.  The whole fish tank cleaner debacle was when things started to get nasty around HCG (imo) and that was driven by the left To make it appear republicans were killing people.

Not sure why there isn't more excitement or dialogue around the other treatments.  I honestly would love to learn more about them, do they seem to be working?

I think you genuinely know why HCQ was pushed.  And I think you know why there isn't more excitement around the other treatments.

[The Sultan]

That's fair analysis, I would suggest it was politicized both from the right and left though. 

Oh FFS...

[pacearrow02]

I think you genuinely know why HCQ was pushed.  And I think you know why there isn't more excitement around the other treatments.

It was pushed cause the President and a lot of people thought/hoped it would work. 

Why do you think it was pushed?

[pacearrow02]

Oh FFS...

What?!?  You don't think both sides are responsible for the partisan nature on your view of HCQ. 

If that's the case why is everyone so divided along party lines with their opinion of it.