Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)

[Warriors4ever]

My thoughts he just threw out stuff with no real idea as to whether they were valid or doable or not. So it’s not like he read research papers or briefing papers or anything. So it doesn’t matter. As the saying goes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[rocky_warrior]

My first thoughts:

1) It's not peer reviewed
2) They're only looking at data (still) from the first couple months of the pandemic and "By discharge or Day 90, 78.2% of the cohort expired."
3) I'm not a medical guy, but double-blind randomized studies are the gold standard and those found no impact: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00053-5/fulltext

edit: I should add, I thought most people (trump, rocket) were looking at it as useful as prophylaxis, not treatment once intubated.  This study is looking at mortality rate once intubated.   And again with over 78% dying in those early days nothing was a good treatment.  I *believe* they've found better treatments, and in also *thought* that determined intubating was not a recommended course of action (unless absolutely required) after that point in time.  i.e. We've learned a lot since April/May 2020 and I'm not sure revisiting that period of time when we've already figured out better treatment is the best way to spend researchers time.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm not saying this article is wrong, but as rocky points out, it's limited.

[Billy Hoyle]

yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?

[Galway Eagle]

yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?

The flu vaccine would've worked this whole time!

[cheebs09]

“New study shows that if we did not test anyone, we wouldn’t have had any positive cases.”

[Hards Alumni]

yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?

After watching our basketball team last season, I might have volunteered to be in a trial for this treatment in March.

[pacearrow02]

yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?

I’m not so interested in Trump being right on things anymore as much as I love pointing out media being wrong.  Another example below:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/yet-another-media-tale-trump-tear

[rocky_warrior]

I’m not so interested in Trump being right on things anymore as much as I love pointing out media being wrong.  Another example below:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/yet-another-media-tale-trump-tear

Do you really not understand the difference between "covid politics", and just "politics"?

[rocket surgeon]

My first thoughts:

1) It's not peer reviewed
2) They're only looking at data (still) from the first couple months of the pandemic and "By discharge or Day 90, 78.2% of the cohort expired."
3) I'm not a medical guy, but double-blind randomized studies are the gold standard and those found no impact: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00053-5/fulltext

edit: I should add, I thought most people (trump, rocket) were looking at it as useful as prophylaxis, not treatment once intubated.  This study is looking at mortality rate once intubated.   And again with over 78% dying in those early days nothing was a good treatment.  I *believe* they've found better treatments, and in also *thought* that determined intubating was not a recommended course of action (unless absolutely required) after that point in time.  i.e. We've learned a lot since April/May 2020 and I'm not sure revisiting that period of time when we've already figured out better treatment is the best way to spend researchers time.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx


Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved.  Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.

How many things are we going to have to go thru like this?  The left  doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong.  The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on

How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…?  He’s” laughing all the way to his vault

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx


Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved.  Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.

How many things are we going to have to go thru like this?  The left  doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong.  The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on

How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…?  He’s” laughing all the way to his vault

Don’t start pretending you care about lives being saved now.

[Hards Alumni]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx


Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved.  Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.

How many things are we going to have to go thru like this?  The left  doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong.  The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on

How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…?  He’s” laughing all the way to his vault

Sad that you're still on about this.  Sadder that your "friends" around here don't try to bring you back to reality.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx


Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved.  Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.

How many things are we going to have to go thru like this?  The left  doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong.  The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on

How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…?  He’s” laughing all the way to his vault

Please let us know when it has been peer reviewed.

[pacearrow02]

My first thoughts:

1) It's not peer reviewed
2) They're only looking at data (still) from the first couple months of the pandemic and "By discharge or Day 90, 78.2% of the cohort expired."
3) I'm not a medical guy, but double-blind randomized studies are the gold standard and those found no impact: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00053-5/fulltext

edit: I should add, I thought most people (trump, rocket) were looking at it as useful as prophylaxis, not treatment once intubated.  This study is looking at mortality rate once intubated.   And again with over 78% dying in those early days nothing was a good treatment.  I *believe* they've found better treatments, and in also *thought* that determined intubating was not a recommended course of action (unless absolutely required) after that point in time.  i.e. We've learned a lot since April/May 2020 and I'm not sure revisiting that period of time when we've already figured out better treatment is the best way to spend researchers time.

You’re right Rocky in that the early intubation of Covid patients that we thought was helping save lives actually was making things worse so as I understand it putting a Covid patient on a ventilator is the absolute last step in treatment now.

So much of those early days were focused on manufacturing and distributing more ventilators and the main reason used to justify the initial lockdowns was so we could preserve a limited supply of ventilators.  Which all turned out to be a giant mistake.

Once the dust settles from this thing and we can retrospectively go back at the recommendations and decisions made there will be a lot to learn from the spring of 2020 that’s for sure.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You’re right Rocky in that the early intubation of Covid patients that we thought was helping save lives actually was making things worse so as I understand it putting a Covid patient on a ventilator is the absolute last step in treatment now.

So much of those early days were focused on manufacturing and distributing more ventilators and the main reason used to justify the initial lockdowns was so we could preserve a limited supply of ventilators.  Which all turned out to be a giant mistake.

Once the dust settles from this thing and we can retrospectively go back at the recommendations and decisions made there will be a lot to learn from the spring of 2020 that’s for sure.

Sorry what "all turned out to be a giant mistake?"  Lockdowns in general?

[pacearrow02]

Sorry what "all turned out to be a giant mistake?"  Lockdowns in general?

No not lockdowns in general.  I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on.  I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective. 

I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc..  None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.

[Hards Alumni]

No not lockdowns in general.  I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on.  I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective. 

I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc..  None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.

Of course they made sense at the time with the information we had.  Hindsight is 20/20.

[Galway Eagle]

No not lockdowns in general.  I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on.  I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective. 

I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc..  None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.

Social distancing: 100% made sense

Outdoor parks: probably not

Most activities: depends on density, airflow, etc.

Plexiglass: Again depends on where and what you're referring to.

Wiping down groceries: never made sense but after late April/early may if you were doing that it was a bit much.

[Warriors4ever]

I think my neighbor is still wiping down groceries. Which even to me makes no sense and hasn’t for quite awhile. Social distancing totally made sense. This has been a huge learning curve done on the fly, and I am sure much has been learned from it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No not lockdowns in general.  I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on.  I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective. 

We mostly weren't locked down after a couple months most places.

I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc..  None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.

Indoor social distancing made a ton of sense and continues to do so for the unvaccinated.

[pacearrow02]

Social distancing: 100% made sense

Outdoor parks: probably not

Most activities: depends on density, airflow, etc.

Plexiglass: Again depends on where and what you're referring to.

Wiping down groceries: never made sense but after late April/early may if you were doing that it was a bit much.

Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html

Published study that was peer reviewed 3x’s.  You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft.  When it was found out that C19 was airborne and the most likely cause of transmission wasn’t through respiratory droplets the whole social distancing and plexiglass stuff should have been out the window and the messaging moved towards limited time in indoor spaces, that’s it.

Unless the plexiglass created somehow helped create a negative pressure room isolated the air space behind the plexiglass with the air from the rest of the room it did to little aside from creating a false sense of security.  The plexiglass partisan in restaurants, grocery stores, etc were/are pointless.

[Galway Eagle]

Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html

Published study that was peer reviewed 3x’s.  You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft.  When it was found out that C19 was airborne and the most likely cause of transmission wasn’t through respiratory droplets the whole social distancing and plexiglass stuff should have been out the window and the messaging moved towards limited time in indoor spaces, that’s it.

Unless the plexiglass created somehow helped create a negative pressure room isolated the air space behind the plexiglass with the air from the rest of the room it did to little aside from creating a false sense of security.  The plexiglass partisan in restaurants, grocery stores, etc were/are pointless.

You didn't say social distancing indoors, you said social distancing.

As far as plexiglass, I think we had different ideas of what you were referring to. But I mean if you want to take that logic and use it to start shouting at everyone who had a face shield instead of a mask then by all means more power to you.

The study cites indoors as a closed environment (source 29) so it's ignored that open windows, air filters, etc all contribute to mitigate the transmission. I don't know about you, but almost everywhere I went indoors had various things like air filters and open windows and doors.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html

Published study that was peer reviewed 3x’s.  You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft.  When it was found out that C19 was airborne and the most likely cause of transmission wasn’t through respiratory droplets the whole social distancing and plexiglass stuff should have been out the window and the messaging moved towards limited time in indoor spaces, that’s it.

Unless the plexiglass created somehow helped create a negative pressure room isolated the air space behind the plexiglass with the air from the rest of the room it did to little aside from creating a false sense of security.  The plexiglass partisan in restaurants, grocery stores, etc were/are pointless.

This is what happens when people use social media to determine what they think science is, instead of understanding exactly what was being studied.

What this says is that social distancing doesn't matter in cases where the virus is being spread through small droplets.  The study did NOT say "You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft."

And why is that? Because small respiratory droplets are NOT the only way it is spread. 

Because people like you don't understand this, the authors had to release a statement that said that social distancing indoors provides benefits because C19 isn't only spread through ways that they studied.

http://web.mit.edu/bazant/www/COVID-19/Bazant-Bush_PNAS_statement.html

[pacearrow02]

You didn't say social distancing indoors, you said social distancing.

As far as plexiglass, I think we had different ideas of what you were referring to. But I mean if you want to take that logic and use it to start shouting at everyone who had a face shield instead of a mask then by all means more power to you.

The study cites indoors as a closed environment (source 29) so it's ignored that open windows, air filters, etc all contribute to mitigate the transmission. I don't know about you, but almost everywhere I went indoors had various things like air filters and open windows and doors.

I don’t understand what you’re arguing here with the window/door opening thing?  That’s a great thing and much more effective then social distancing and an easy way for a business and the people in it to limit their risk.

I didn’t say indoor social distancing initially  but outdoor social distancing makes even less sense. 

The face shields people used are not made of plexiglass but since you bring it up when compared to a mask those things were largely ineffective. Great at blocking large respiratory droplets from getting in your mouth but that’s about it.

[Warriors4ever]

Compared to other countries we were never in lockdown.