6 Seasons in the Books. Wojo's grade?

[Lennys Tap]

And we were a 3-seed in 2012 & 2013 while sharing the 2013 Big East title, which I'd argue was more relevant than their 2006. Like I said, I don't believe any Marquette fan thought we were a second tier team in this league when it was formed.

Except wades, evidently.

[wadesworld]

Marquette had a 3 year stretch where they were better than Nova. That’s less than a recruiting cycle. If you thought that meant we were the best program heading into the NBE I don’t know what to tell you. There is no question Nova and Georgetown were better overall programs than MU heading into the NBE.

Just because Creighton’s been better than us for the past 3 seasons doesn’t mean they’d be expected to be a more successful program from here on out.

[keefe]

We should extend Wojo 5 or 6 years. I really want to see what he can do with his own recruits and give him plenty of time to install his culture. Putting pressure on him to win now is really unfair and mean.

Cruel, even.

[warriorfred]

And we were a 3-seed in 2012 & 2013 while sharing the 2013 Big East title, which I'd argue was more relevant than their 2006. Like I said, I don't believe any Marquette fan thought we were a second tier team in this league when it was formed.

Totally agree.  Heading into the New Big East I honestly thought Marquette would have won the conference once, and probably twice.  Heck, win one game down the stretch last year and there is your title.

Wojo's performance in the New Big East has been a disappointment . . . BUT KENPOM!!!

[Lennys Tap]

If you thought that meant we were the best program heading into the NBE I don’t know what to tell you.

Please show where and when I said “Best”. I said we had been more successful than both Nova and GTown during the Buzz era (which had lasted 5 years). It’s true. And that we weren’t thought of as an inferior program to either when the new Big East began. Which is also true, in spite of what you opine.

[wadesworld]

Please show where and when I said “Best”. I said we had been more successful than both Nova and GTown during the Buzz era (which had lasted 5 years). It’s true. And that we weren’t thought of as an inferior program to either when the new Big East began. Which is also true, in spite of what you opine.

In the Buzz era, from 2009 to 2014:

Nova - 3 seed, 2 seed, 9 seed, missed Tourney, 9 seed, 3 seed, 2 seed
Georgetown - missed Tourney, 3 seed, 6 seed, 3 seed, 2 seed, missed Tourney
Marquette - 6 seed, 6 seed, 11 seed, 3 seed, 3 seed, missed Tourney

And the returning rosters left behind for the following season for these teams were 1 seed for Nova, 4 seed for Georgetown, and missed the Tourney for MU.

Sorry. I’ll stand by my claim that if people expected Marquette to be to the Big East what Gonzaga is to the MWC or what Nova is to the BE, their expectations are at least part of the problem of why MU hasn’t lived up to expectations. Marquette hasn’t been anywhere close to the program that Nova or Georgetown has been since the 1970s. Just haven’t been.

[Lennys Tap]

In the Buzz era, from 2009 to 2014:

Nova - 3 seed, 2 seed, 9 seed, missed Tourney, 9 seed, 3 seed, 2 seed
Georgetown - missed Tourney, 3 seed, 6 seed, 3 seed, 2 seed, missed Tourney
Marquette - 6 seed, 6 seed, 11 seed, 3 seed, 3 seed, missed Tourney.

2014? Goal post shift. We were talking about expectations BEFORE we entered the NBE.

In the Buzz era, 2009-2013, the time under consideration: Marquette 60-30 in conference. Villanova 50-40. Georgetown in between, record posted previously.

Only a few wildly optimistic fans expected us to be Gonzaga. Only a few pessimists thought we wouldn’t share the top tier with Nova and Georgetown.

Bottom line, Villanova has wildly exceeded expectations, we’ve been a disappointment and Georgetown has been a disaster.

[wadesworld]

2014? Goal post shift. We were talking about expectations BEFORE we entered the NBE.

In the Buzz era, 2009-2013, the time under consideration: Marquette 60-30 in conference. Villanova 50-40. Georgetown in between, record posted previously.

Only a few wildly optimistic fans expected us to be Gonzaga. Only a few pessimists thought we wouldn’t share the top tier with Nova and Georgetown.

Bottom line, Villanova has wildly exceeded expectations, we’ve been a disappointment and Georgetown has been a disaster.

Lol! You bring up the Buzz Williams era. Now when I bring the facts of the Buzz Williams era I’m shifting goalposts? Was Buzz Williams not our coach for the 2013-2014 season?

Good talk Lenny. Lol.

[BallBoy]

When I say what Nova has been, I mean the team clearly at the top of the conference. Can anyone honestly say that wasn't their expectation when this new league was formed?

No one expected Nova to morph into a blue blood, not even the craziest dreamers at the Finn, but I think it's safe to say we all expected the top dog in the Big East would reside in Milwaukee more often than not.

I didn’t expect MU to be the “Nova” of the conference because I expected us to fight it out for a conference title against Georgetown, Nova, and Xavier. Some years we would win other years we would be the last in that line. I also expected a few years that one of the others would come into the mix.  When we formed I wasn’t expecting a one team league.

Unfortunately, that happened and nova won the regular season title all but one year when the finished second. After the first year of the league and Buzz leaving my expectations changed to MU needs to fight back to relevancy in the new league before they could be a consistent player in the league.

[Eldon]

When I say what Nova has been, I mean the team clearly at the top of the conference. Can anyone honestly say that wasn't their expectation when this new league was formed?

No one expected Nova to morph into a blue blood, not even the craziest dreamers at the Finn, but I think it's safe to say we all expected the top dog in the Big East would reside in Milwaukee more often than not.

+1

I was expecting MU, GTown, and Nova to be the flagbearers of the conference based on history and current success at the time. 

I expected these three teams plus one of {X, Creighton, Butler} to always be at the top, with a bad year thrown in once in a while for each of MU, GTown, and Nova.

MU and GTown have fallen off a cliff since then, while Nova has ascended Mt. Everest twice.

[bilsu]

I did not bother to read this thread. I voted B. I rated him higher than his actual results, because he has not hurt the image of the University.

[PointWarrior]

Wojos’s teams look like perennial 5th place challengers each year in the BE and anything more than that is an over-accomplishment.

I didn’t expect MU to be the “Nova” of the conference because I expected us to fight it out for a conference title against Georgetown, Nova, and Xavier. Some years we would win other years we would be the last in that line. I also expected a few years that one of the others would come into the mix.  When we formed I wasn’t expecting a one team league.

Unfortunately, that happened and nova won the regular season title all but one year when the finished second. After the first year of the league and Buzz leaving my expectations changed to MU needs to fight back to relevancy in the new league before they could be a consistent player in the league.

[WhiteTrash]

I did not bother to read this thread. I voted B. I rated him higher than his actual results, because he has not hurt the image of the University.

I get where you are coming from but shouldn't that be minimum requirement of the job and not something you get extra-credit for?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I did not bother to read this thread. I voted B. I rated him higher than his actual results, because he has not hurt the image of the University.

As long as MU can keep making seat covers for the student section, we should be fine with the image.  Maybe if MU wants to give a boost to the computer science department they can start CGIing fans into the ever increasing empty seats.  Also, what happened to the band?  Where's ring out ahoya?  Totally dismal MU experience at the Fiserv.  Program is headed downhill.  There's no reason to attend games next year unless you want to see that close game between ST. Johns. 

[Tha Hound]

I did not bother to read this thread. I voted B. I rated him higher than his actual results, because he has not hurt the image of the University.

To rate the the coach of a basketball team, who's job is to win basketball games, a B based on "not hurting the image of the University" may be the most asinine thing I have ever read. I don't mean to attack you personally, as I have seen other people on this forum laud Wojo for being "squeaky clean", but it's just such an outrageous statement that I'm so sick of reading.

News flash - there are hundreds of coaches who don't hurt their respective university's images by simply existing, almost all of whom we could hire. But if they aren't good coaches, and cant win games, WHY WOULD YOU WANT THEM?

What I'm saying is grading Wojo as above average based on something just about every human being could do if given the opportunity, is just ridiculous. THis notion that our coach being squeaky clean is just as, if not more important, than winning is a microcosm of why our program is currently in the dumpster.

No I don't want a scumbag like Buzz, but there is a massive middle ground to be had between a bad guy who is a good coach and a good guy who is a bad coach.

[WarriorDad]

Totally agree.  Heading into the New Big East I honestly thought Marquette would have won the conference once, and probably twice.  Heck, win one game down the stretch last year and there is your title.

Wojo's performance in the New Big East has been a disappointment . . . BUT KENPOM!!!

We have won three conference titles in our history in conferences of 32 years, no coach has won more than one.  Why are we suddenly going to win two in six years?  MU fans thought we would dominate the MCC and Great Midwest. We did not. Same for Conference USA.  We did not.

[MUCam]

We have won three conference titles in our history in conferences of 32 years, no coach has won more than one.  Why are we suddenly going to win two in six years?  MU fans thought we would dominate the MCC and Great Midwest. We did not. Same for Conference USA.  We did not.

Well said.

There is an important but delicate balance between having high expectations / expecting greatness and being realistic.

There is no reason we couldn’t have a run like Villanova. There is no reason we can’t have that type of success. We have the resources and history to support it.

That said, that type of success isn’t easy to attain. It doesn’t just happen because a fan base thinks it could. It requires a lot of moving parts to line up properly at the right time.

For me, Wojo is a C. Average. That’s it. The program is not in despair. We still have the ability to be a resurgent success story and Wojo’s recruiting makes me feel even better about that chance. But, we aren’t good. The last two years have been difficult. It needs to get better. With Wojo or without.

One last point on recruiting. Great coaches make average players look good. Great players make average coaches look great. If Wojo is staying, let’s hope this incoming class is great and not just hype.

[WarriorDad]

Marquette had a 3 year stretch where they were better than Nova. That’s less than a recruiting cycle. If you thought that meant we were the best program heading into the NBE I don’t know what to tell you. There is no question Nova and Georgetown were better overall programs than MU heading into the NBE.

Just because Creighton’s been better than us for the past 3 seasons doesn’t mean they’d be expected to be a more successful program from here on out.

We finished ahead of Creighton last season.

[Silkk the Shaka]

We finished ahead of Creighton last season.

We finished well behind them this season and will do so again next season.

[rocky_warrior]

As long as MU can keep making seat covers for the student section, we should be fine with the image.  Maybe if MU wants to give a boost to the computer science department they can start CGIing fans into the ever increasing empty seats.  Also, what happened to the band?  Where's ring out ahoya?  Totally dismal MU experience at the Fiserv.  Program is headed downhill.  There's no reason to attend games next year unless you want to see that close game between ST. Johns.

We certainly hope the general stench of the program convinces you to stop posting here!

[panda]

D

Positive
He runs a clean program

Negatives
Lots of player turnover
Putrid defensive principles
0 NCAA tournament wins
Zero success in getting players not named Henry Ellenson into the NBA


It shocks me he’s still somehow able to get top tier recruits to come to campus. I would imagine, when the team inevitably struggles next year, our recruiting will take a dive. The school is holding onto him for way too long.

[brewcity77]

We have won three conference titles in our history in conferences of 32 years, no coach has won more than one.  Why are we suddenly going to win two in six years?

Because we won the old Big East and the perennial favorites Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, & Louisville were gone. The last two years of the league, we were the highest ranked NBE team in the league. In our first 8 years in the Big East, we had been the first or second ranked NBE team in the standings 7 times.

If someone wants to argue it would be a three team race with Nova and Georgetown, I can see that, but any Marquette fan saying they didn't expect us to be one of the 2-3 best teams routinely is lying.

[Lennys Tap]

Because we won the old Big East and the perennial favorites Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, & Louisville were gone. The last two years of the league, we were the highest ranked NBE team in the league. In our first 8 years in the Big East, we had been the first or second ranked NBE team in the standings 7 times.

If someone wants to argue it would be a three team race with Nova and Georgetown, I can see that, but any Marquette fan saying they didn't expect us to be one of the 2-3 best teams routinely is lying.

Bingo!

[wadesworld]

Because we won the old Big East and the perennial favorites Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, & Louisville were gone. The last two years of the league, we were the highest ranked NBE team in the league. In our first 8 years in the Big East, we had been the first or second ranked NBE team in the standings 7 times.

If someone wants to argue it would be a three team race with Nova and Georgetown, I can see that, but any Marquette fan saying they didn't expect us to be one of the 2-3 best teams routinely is lying.

Yeah, that's not what your claim was.  You said you expected us to be what Nova actually is or what Gonzaga is to the MWC.  That is far different than being "one of the two or three best teams routinely."

It would've been great to be what you "expected" Marquette to be.  It also would've been a completely unreasonable expectation.  We've been in a total of 4 conferences in the history of the program (5 if you count the NBE and the old BE as separate conferences).  We've been the best program in exactly 0 of those conferences when we were in them.  We have a total of 3 conference titles in 31 seasons of being in a conference.  Why someone would expect us to win 6 in 7 years like Nova or 19 in 20 years like Gonzaga is baffling.

[WarriorDad]

Because we won the old Big East and the perennial favorites Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, & Louisville were gone. The last two years of the league, we were the highest ranked NBE team in the league. In our first 8 years in the Big East, we had been the first or second ranked NBE team in the standings 7 times.

If someone wants to argue it would be a three team race with Nova and Georgetown, I can see that, but any Marquette fan saying they didn't expect us to be one of the 2-3 best teams routinely is lying.

The last two years of the Big East Georgetown was the highest ranked team on KenPom.com. 

12 years after winning the national championship we entered the MCC where we were expected to dominate. We never did.  We win a conference title on average every 10 or 11 years.   Coach Williams first year in the NBE was a disappointment after picked to win it, but finishing in the bottom half.  It has been a mix of upper and lower half finishes since.