Rebuild Assumptions

[brewcity77]

Without knowing any of them personally, I'd be willing to bet that if Scholl called the biggest donors and said "I can get us Brad Stevens for 10 million a year", there would be checks on his desk to cover it before he even hung up the phone.

Marquette's last three hires have been assistants. Giving someone their first shot is always going to be the economical path. I'm not at all convinced Scholl would see a flood of checks, even if reincarnated Al showed up asking for the job.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Let see Fluffy.Tommy Amaker a Coach K protege sucked at Michigan,Jeff Capel another from Coach K tree washed out at Oklahoma,Johnny Dawkins at Stanford another from Coach K and Mike Deane was under Jud Heathcote and was bad.Won with KO players and then when they all graduated MU sucked.There are more.Has no relevance.

[Aircraftcarrier]

mu guru guess what? When the money stops coming in and attendance starts dropping at a significant rate I bet the administration will care then.

[LAZER]

Marquette's last three hires have been assistants. Giving someone their first shot is always going to be the economical path. I'm not at all convinced Scholl would see a flood of checks, even if reincarnated Al showed up asking for the job.

Otzelberger is set to make $1.2 next year, seems like MU could afford him.

[brewcity77]

Otzelberger is set to make $1.2 next year, seems like MU could afford him.

Agreed. They definitely could, I'm more leaning toward the "they aren't shelling out $10M no matter who walks through the door" argument.

[JWags85]

It doesn't.  Clearly.  But the chances of it working out are better if the assistant was an assistant for a successful coach. 

That's a much more logical point than "we might hit the lottery."

It really depends on the coach.  Ive said before, Coach K is such a totalitarian dictator figure at Duke, I think his assistants are a bit stunted as a result.  Look at all of them who took "major" jobs

Chris Collins (Nortwestern) - More or less failed
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford)- 1 NCAA appearance in 8 seasons, and that season he had 3 NBA players on the team but didn't even make the tourney the year before
Tommy Amaker (Seton Hall/Michigan)- Managed to parlay 1 NCAA tourney appearance in 4 years at SH into the Michigan gig, failed there. 1 NCAA appearance in a combined 10 seasons at the 2 schools.

Quin Synder (Missouri)- Flamed out, but had a good few years, though he took over a good NCAA caliber team from Norm Stewart

The two most successful assistants are Mike Brey and Jeff Capel.  But Brey went and cut his teeth at a lower level at Delaware before ND.  And Capel cut his teeth at VCU, but then bad at Oklahoma except for having Blake Griffin.

Jon Scheyer is gonna be a hot name in the next few years, and short of him going to a mid major, I have no doubt he's gonna be a failure as well.  The track record doesn't indicate anything otherwise.  Recruiting but no Xs and Os

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Wojo walked into a dumpster fire of a roster.

If wojo gets canned, his replacements walks into a similar dumpster fire (all recruits de-commit, a couple transfer out).

3-5 years from then and Marquette might be successful again.

So basically you are saying that every new coach is basically in the same position, unless there is a unique thing like the three amigos in year one...

[The Sultan]

Let see Fluffy.Tommy Amaker a Coach K protege sucked at Michigan,Jeff Capel another from Coach K tree washed out at Oklahoma,Johnny Dawkins at Stanford another from Coach K and Mike Deane was under Jud Heathcote and was bad.Won with KO players and then when they all graduated MU sucked.There are more.Has no relevance.

No no.

You aren't following simple logic.  I said that the chances are much greater that you would succeed if you were an assistant for a coach who was successful at the highest levels.  I never said it was a guaranty.

To prove my point, name a current, successful P6 coach who was an assistant to someone like Wojo - a coach who never won a NCAA tournament game.

Until then, I'm going to say that my logic is much more well grounded than your "maybe we'll hit the lottery" idea.

[The Sultan]

Honestly because as much as MU spends on their program, they always want to go as cheap as possible with a coach. No clue why, that's just the sense I get. It's maddening.

How and why MU spends so much on basketball has been repeatedly explained.  It's mostly because they have to rent out Fiserv.  They don't have gobs of money to drop on a coach like the likes of Kentucky or Louisville.

[Litehouse]

To prove my point, name a current, successful P6 coach who was an assistant to someone like Wojo - a coach who never won a NCAA tournament game.

Not that I really care one way or the other, but how about Greg McDermott and Scott Drew?

[Aircraftcarrier]

Litehouse those are two good ones.I am sure there are others.Thanks for proving my point.You either can coach or you can't coach.Doesn't matter what school you are at as an assistant.

[The Sultan]

Not that I really care one way or the other, but how about Greg McDermott and Scott Drew?

Neither were assistants before their current gigs.  Both were mid-major coaches prior.

[The Sultan]

Litehouse those are two good ones.I am sure there are others.Thanks for proving my point.You either can coach or you can't coach.Doesn't matter what school you are at as an assistant.

LOL no.  Don't move the goalposts now.

[Aircraftcarrier]

You are right even though Drew coached only 1 year at Valpo.I will take Stan any day of the week instead of guys like Dukiet and Deane.That is my opinion and you have the right to disagree.Whoever the Coach is next year better get some guards that can handle it and shoot it or it will not matter

[Litehouse]

Neither were assistants before their current gigs.  Both were mid-major coaches prior.

Ahh, gotcha, I didn't catch that you meant coming directly from the assistant position.

[Goose]

What about Wardle?

[The Sultan]

What about Wardle?

I think it is quite evident that he can coach.  He had a mini-tourn around at GB and his work at Bradley has been very impressive.  I think if you are going the mid-major head coach route, he clicks all the boxes.  Bonus that he's an alum.

Only question is if he can recruit at the P6 level.

[Spotcheck Billy]

It really depends on the coach.  Ive said before, Coach K is such a totalitarian dictator figure at Duke, I think his assistants are a bit stunted as a result.  Look at all of them who took "major" jobs

Chris Collins (Nortwestern) - More or less failed
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford)- 1 NCAA appearance in 8 seasons, and that season he had 3 NBA players on the team but didn't even make the tourney the year before
Tommy Amaker (Seton Hall/Michigan)- Managed to parlay 1 NCAA tourney appearance in 4 years at SH into the Michigan gig, failed there. 1 NCAA appearance in a combined 10 seasons at the 2 schools.

Quin Synder (Missouri)- Flamed out, but had a good few years, though he took over a good NCAA caliber team from Norm Stewart

But in all fairness the Jazz don't seem to question his coaching and didn't Amaker have to clean up team hit by sanctions at the U of Keefe?

[Goose]

Fluff

I'll take Wojo over Wardle.

[The Sultan]

Fluff

I'll take Wojo over Wardle.

I wouldn't.  I would much rather have a less talented team that punches above its weight than a talented team that underperforms.

[NorthernDancerColt]

I think we would be able to get a coach who is either a more accomplished assistant or mid major head coach.  Either would be preferable to the top assistant of a failed head coach.

That's your opinion. Haven't you ever worked somewhere where the top guy was just eating at morale, and then someone extremely talented just under him/her was promoted and the whole vibe changed for the better? Sometimes underlings like Stan are champing at the bit for a shot. Top bosses constrain those under them all the time. I truly feel Stan is kicking the barn down for a chance to be a head coach. Why not here?

Also, I truly feel Wojo is going to be a very good coach some day. He has had some bad luck. It's been kind of a perfect storm working against him. One wonders if he hadn't brought Joey here what would've transpired. I would not be upset if he were retained as HC. He's got some serious work to do to save his job. You never know.

[f/k/a humanlung]

I wouldn't.  I would much rather have a less talented team that punches above its weight than a talented team that underperforms.

That's Mike Deane 2.0.

We should aim higher.

[keefe]

I wouldn't.  I would much rather have a less talented team that punches above its weight than a talented team that underperforms.

Very well framed

[NorthernDancerColt]

That's Mike Deane 2.0.

We should aim higher.

I thought the same thing.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

That's your opinion. Haven't you ever worked somewhere where the top guy was just eating at morale, and then someone extremely talented just under him/her was promoted and the whole vibe changed for the better? Sometimes underlings like Stan are champing at the bit for a shot. Top bosses constrain those under them all the time. I truly feel Stan is kicking the barn down for a chance to be a head coach. Why not here?

Also, I truly feel Wojo is going to be a very good coach some day. He has had some bad luck. It's been kind of a perfect storm working against him. One wonders if he hadn't brought Joey here what would've transpired. I would not be upset if he were retained as HC. He's got some serious work to do to save his job. You never know.

Lol, Is Wojo on the 10 year plan?  After he gets his doctorate in coaching, he's going to win the Big East Tourney and then make a swift sweet 16 run?

Tell me...... in what year does Wojo start coaching a complex offense?  When do we begin to see transition offense/defense?