Rebuild Assumptions

[CountryRoads]

Also, I truly feel Wojo is going to be a very good coach some day. He has had some bad luck. It’s been kind of a perfect storm working against him. One wonders if he hadn’t brought Joey here what would’ve transpired. I would not be upset if he were retained as HC. He’s got some serious work to do to save his job. You never know.

Put a monkey in front of a keyboard for a long enough period of time and he’ll eventually type out Shakespeare’s Hamlet word for word. Similar to how I feel about Wojo winning big at the D1 level right now. He’ll have success eventually but it may not be worth the wait. 

[willie warrior]

I think it is quite evident that he can coach.  He had a mini-tourn around at GB and his work at Bradley has been very impressive.  I think if you are going the mid-major head coach route, he clicks all the boxes.  Bonus that he's an alum.

Only question is if he can recruit at the P6 level.

That would be the question. if you look at what he has done at Bradley...not too bad. Think he only won about 6 games first year there but has won 20 or more past 3 years. Recruiting to the BEast would help some, but could he land some studs? Not sure.

[willie warrior]

Fluff

I'll take Wojo over Wardle.

Think you are wrong on that one Goose. You have already viewed Wojo's performance, and it ain't good.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That's Mike Deane 2.0.

We should aim higher.

I agree we should aim higher. I was simply stating who I would prefer between Wardle and Wojo and why.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Lol, Is Wojo on the 10 year plan?  After he gets his doctorate in coaching, he's going to win the Big East Tourney and then make a swift sweet 16 run?

Tell me...... in what year does Wojo start coaching a complex offense?  When do we begin to see transition offense/defense?

Make no mistake, I’m getting impatient. Again, we’ve seen him produce a top ten offense before. The parts are just sputtering now, or maybe the parts were retrofitted to the wrong chassis. The former is out of his control, the latter is on him. Against DePaul, it seemed that a Markus mid-range pull-up was there all night, yet he would continuously attack too far in the paint. Couldn’t the coaches see this?

Watch the way some of our guys get up and down the court and it’s evident more than one guy is hurting. So, not sure there’s much transition O to be run. I will give you that our defense lacks cohesion and structure and is painfully inconsistent. My favorite MU teams to watch were always those that could really buckle down on D and get the crowd into it. To me, part of our collective angst against the students and crowd in general should actually be directed at the players and coaches for not getting back on D and not consistently stopping people. It wears on a crowd when just as the offense does something to ignite the stands, we trade baskets within 7-8 seconds because someone didn’t get back or a 3shooter was left wide open. In the half court D, Give me Tony Miller and Roney Eford overplaying the perimeter and funneling guards to Jimmy Mac when those guards were beat off the dribble. It was predictable but it worked. Either led to a steal, a bad pass turnover, or a Mac block. With our current D, oh yeah it can lead to lots of things, most of them bad for MU.

[WarriorDad]

What MU coach in the past 30 years took 5 years to build a competitive team?

Are you saying Coach Wojo didn’t have a competitive team in years 3, 4 and 5 in his first five years?

This team’s outside shooting has abandoned them, most notably Anim and Bailey.  They were scoring prior to this skid, but not now. 

[genious expert]

Wardle would be like my 20th option if I was only looking at mid major coaches

[harryp]

watching V tonight, it occurred to me that early in the season we beat them. Since then what have we done -- a veteran team - V younger. Have we improved as much as they have? It seems to me that that is on the coach. Must also consider that players have definitely improved under Wojo, Theo, Marcus, Sacar, that also, it seems to me, is on the coach. Has the coach improved? I am not sure the decision is as clear as it is presented by some on this board.

[WhiteTrash]

Are you saying Coach Wojo didn’t have a competitive team in years 3, 4 and 5 in his first five years?

This team’s outside shooting has abandoned them, most notably Anim and Bailey.  They were scoring prior to this skid, but not now.

I think you missed the exchange of posts that lead to my question. A post suggested that it will take MU 5 years to become competitive with a new coach. I agree that Wojo and every other MU coach in the past 30 years has had MU competitive in less than 5 years.

[willie warrior]

Wardle would be like my 20th option if I was only looking at mid major coaches

Neither of your post names apply on that statement.

[WarriorDad]

Return with coach Steve and a highly rated recruiting class of 5 and 4 star players coming off probably 3 NCAA bids in four years.

OR

Lose the recruiting class (highly likely), no NCAA or NIT next year, rebuild of a few years for a coach that likely is unproven at this level.


That appears to be the question on risk.  I have read several members here say Wojo can only win with 4 and 5 star players.  Isn’t that the ratings of the players coming in?

[NorthernDancerColt]

Return with coach Steve and a highly rated recruiting class of 5 and 4 star players coming off probably 3 NCAA bids in four years.

OR

Lose the recruiting class (highly likely), no NCAA or NIT next year, rebuild of a few years for a coach that likely is unproven at this level.


That appears to be the question on risk.  I have read several members here say Wojo can only win with 4 and 5 star players.  Isn’t that the ratings of the players coming in?

Let’s see how this thing plays out. As they said in LetItRide, there’s a very fine line between winning and losing...”yeah, the finish line.” 

One of my coaching buddies said “It looks like Wojo has lost the team”.

My other coaching buddy disagreed and said, “A couple breaks go your way and guys start believing again, and you guys can definitely go on a big March run...you have Markus Howard, and he’s very hard to prepare for when you don’t see him all the time.”

[MDMU04]

My other coaching buddy disagreed and said, “A couple breaks go your way and guys start believing again, and you guys can definitely go on a big March run...you have Markus Howard, and he’s very hard to prepare for when you don’t see him all the time.”

Gameplan to beat Marquette

Defense:
Trap or double team Markus Howard on every possession. Triple team if required. Force other guys on the floor to make open shots.

Offense:
Run high ball screens and dribble penetration for your best scorer, mixed with Pick and roll.

The things the team does not do well are not secrets at this point.

[WhiteTrash]

Return with coach Steve and a highly rated recruiting class of 5 and 4 star players coming off probably 3 NCAA bids in four years.

OR

Lose the recruiting class (highly likely), no NCAA or NIT next year, rebuild of a few years for a coach that likely is unproven at this level.


That appears to be the question on risk.  I have read several members here say Wojo can only win with 4 and 5 star players.  Isn’t that the ratings of the players coming in?

If next year was MU's last year of DI basketball I'd go with the first option.

Looking for a future MU team that can win the Big East and make some deep runs in the NCAA, I'd go with option 2.

[Markusquette]

Remember there is always the possibility that 5 years post-Wojo could be even worse. So for those who are ready to forfeit next year's class for a complete rebuild should have that in mind.

[NCMUFan]

The incoming commits will more than likely be gone as where they go is typically greatly tied to the coaches that recruited them.  With the incoming commits being highly sought, they have other options if the coaching staff changes.  MU fans will need a really really iron stomach next year if they thought this year was tough to watch.  Year 2 of a rebuild would probably be better, but highly doubtful if anywhere near an NCAA bid.  If a miracle works, year 3 may have a NCAA tourney team.   Glad we are patient fans.

[WhiteTrash]

The incoming commits will more than likely be gone as where they go is typically greatly tied to the coaches that recruited them.  With the incoming commits being highly sought, they have other options if the coaching staff changes.  MU fans will need a really really iron stomach next year if they thought this year was tough to watch.  Year 2 of a rebuild would probably be better, but highly doubtful if anywhere near an NCAA bid.  If a miracle works, year 3 may have a NCAA tourney team.   Glad we are patient fans.

KO, Crean, Buzz and Wojo all had MU dancing in three years. I guess miracles are common at MU.

[5DollarPitcher]

The incoming commits will more than likely be gone as where they go is typically greatly tied to the coaches that recruited them.  With the incoming commits being highly sought, they have other options if the coaching staff changes.  MU fans will need a really really iron stomach next year if they thought this year was tough to watch.  Year 2 of a rebuild would probably be better, but highly doubtful if anywhere near an NCAA bid.  If a miracle works, year 3 may have a NCAA tourney team.   Glad we are patient fans.

I'd rather suck completely for two years (debatable that even happens) than go 9-9 in Big East play for the next 13 years.

[NCMUFan]

Yes, maybe MU has been blessed with miracles.  Maybe there is one more out there for us, maybe not.  A top 10 recruiting class is a nice thing to have in ones hand.  Versus a new coach in the bush.

[5DollarPitcher]

Yes, maybe MU has been blessed with miracles.  Maybe there is one more out there for us, maybe not.  A top 10 recruiting class is a nice thing to have in ones hand.  Versus a new coach in the bush.

Have you ever seen the movie Groundhog Day?  It's got Bill Murray.

[f/k/a humanlung]

The incoming commits will more than likely be gone as where they go is typically greatly tied to the coaches that recruited them.  With the incoming commits being highly sought, they have other options if the coaching staff changes.  MU fans will need a really really iron stomach next year if they thought this year was tough to watch.  Year 2 of a rebuild would probably be better, but highly doubtful if anywhere near an NCAA bid.  If a miracle works, year 3 may have a NCAA tourney team.   Glad we are patient fans.

I'm sorry but three to four years into a rebuild at a place like MU is a realistic expectation for not just an NCAA bid but a win or two in the Big Dance.  KO did it in year 4.  Year 5 we were in the Sweet 16.  Crean had us back in at year 3, granted, with D Wade.  Year 4 was a Final Four.  Buzz had us in for 5 of 6 years - and year 1 he lost all of Crean's recruits if I recall correctly.

People need to get over this fallacy that dumping Wojo will be some insurmountable setback.  History proves it false.  The insurmountable setback would be to allow this mediocrity to continue with the hope that it will someday, maybe, get better.  Six years says that it is not going to happen.

[NCMUFan]

Have you ever seen the movie Groundhog Day?  It's got Bill Murray.

Sure, more than once.  Funny flick.  Especially where Bill Murray realizes whatever he does to himself, it doesn't matter, the next morning he will be back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N01vThrQ40Q

[Class71]

I would say the Wojo dumpster fire was started by him when he ignored the Hausers valid complaint. No team wins with a one man offense.

[jesmu84]

I think there's a difference in a rebuild - where a coach is fired/forced to leave - vs a rebuild where a coach moves on to a better job.

One is literally a rebuild with almost zero continuity. Think Wojo after buzz.

The other is continuity. Think Lavall at Butler (and like 3 coaches before that at Butler).

[WhiteTrash]

I think there's a difference in a rebuild - where a coach is fired/forced to leave - vs a rebuild where a coach moves on to a better job.

One is literally a rebuild with almost zero continuity. Think Wojo after buzz.

The other is continuity. Think Lavall at Butler (and like 3 coaches before that at Butler).

Yep, KO and Crean too. I'm glad those two were given 10 years to get MU in the NCAA, Sweet Sixteen & Final Four.