Wojo Presser

[Dr. Blackheart]

The rest of the fiserv Forum crowd should boo the student section when they are announced.....the best student section in the country....what a joke.

Last night was interesting because the student boos were concerted and louder than they have been but the rest of the students also cheered more loudly to drown the boos out.  Vibrant student section last night and MU recognized the front row students and band who have been awesome all season.

The empty seats continued with about a third unoccupied. <scratch head>

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Also, the MU fan base is really no different than any other school where sports are a big part of the culture.  More docile than some of the big football schools, probably. 

This is true with a caveat. Marquette fans are nothing compared to SEC football fans.  But they are 100 times "worse" than SEC basketball fans (except UK fans). Buzz could turn in 6 straight losing seasons at TAMU and never be booed. The fans simply don't care enough. They'll show up and get loud when the team is winning but if they're not they simply stop caring.

I would say we are one of the most entitled/passionate college basketball fanbases. But in the grand scheme of college sports,  we're maybe slightly above average. Doesn't mean booing the coach is a good look though.

[TheGym]

The article says Duke fans were calling for his head after year 3.  That, to me, is whiny and entitled.  Wojo's in year 6.  In his fourth year, K won his first NCAAT game at Duke and was off to the races.

Watch the documentary "The Class That Saved Coach K".  It does a good job of how the Duke faithful were uneasy for the beginning of his tenure.  If you are a fan of college basketball it is a good use of 90 minutes even if you don't like Duke.

[ChuckyChip]

The rest of the fiserv Forum crowd should boo the student section when they are announced.....the best student section in the country....what a joke.

Interesting that they did not "introduce" the student section last night.  Yes, the booing was noticeably louder and the turnout was underwhelming (and most left at the 8 minute timeout in the second half).

[cheebs09]

Interesting that they did not "introduce" the student section last night.  Yes, the booing was noticeably louder and the turnout was underwhelming (and most left at the 8 minute timeout in the second half).

I think they did. I think they have just sped that part up along with the Wojo intro.

[CTWarrior]

K also had 5 years of head coaching experience before he got to Duke.

Irrelevant when discussing Wojo.  Wojo has no lower D1 head coaching experience because he chose not to have it before taking a P6 job.  He gets no pass for that.  I'm not terribly satisfied with his first 6 years (I think if you told everybody on the day Wojo was hired what the first 5 1/2 years results were going to be, just about nobody would have thought it was good), but I still think he can get there.

[mu03eng]

Irrelevant when discussing Wojo.  Wojo has no lower D1 head coaching experience because he chose not to have it before taking a P6 job.  He gets no pass for that.  I'm not terribly satisfied with his first 6 years (I think if you told everybody on the day Wojo was hired what the first 5 1/2 years results were going to be, just about nobody would have thought it was good), but I still think he can get there.

It's not opinion, just facts with regards to this being his first head coaching job. That matters and has to be baked into expectations....let's put it this way, if #DoneDeal had actually happened and Shaka had the same results as Wojo has delivered I'd be much more disappointed in Shaka than Wojo. As with any job in the real world, there is a learning curve and you don't know what you don't know. The jump from AC to HC is a very large one and I think it's unreasonable(supported by lots of evidence) to think expectations shouldn't be adjusted accordingly.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Irrelevant when discussing Wojo.  Wojo has no lower D1 head coaching experience because he chose not to have it before taking a P6 job.  He gets no pass for that.  I'm not terribly satisfied with his first 6 years (I think if you told everybody on the day Wojo was hired what the first 5 1/2 years results were going to be, just about nobody would have thought it was good), but I still think he can get there.

Certainly not, but the first year can be completely thrown out the window.  He had nothing to work with.

Since then: 47-40 in the BE.  Three ncaa tournament bids in 5 years.  One NIT 2 seed, the other an NIT snub in Ellenson's season.  Obviously 0-2 to date in the NCAA tournament sucks, but its a pretty small sample.  If MU can win a game or two in the tournament this year, its hard to argue that the past 4 seasons are in this monumental downslide into irrelevancy that many here make it to be.  Recruiting has and continues to be good.  The trajectory continues to looks good IMO - just hasn't happened as quickly as everyone wanted. 

[wadesworld]

Certainly not, but the first year can be completely thrown out the window.  He had nothing to work with.

Since then: 47-40 in the BE.  Three ncaa tournament bids in 5 years.  One NIT 2 seed, the other an NIT snub in Ellenson's season.  Obviously 0-2 to date in the NCAA tournament sucks, but its a pretty small sample.  If MU can win a game or two in the tournament this year, its hard to argue that the past 4 seasons are in this monumental downslide into irrelevancy that many here make it to be.  Recruiting has and continues to be good.  The trajectory continues to looks good IMO - just hasn't happened as quickly as everyone wanted.

Keep in mind your audience.  Some here think that a timeout in a mid-season game is one of the low points in the history of Marquette basketball.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It's not opinion, just facts with regards to this being his first head coaching job. That matters and has to be baked into expectations....let's put it this way, if #DoneDeal had actually happened and Shaka had the same results as Wojo has delivered I'd be much more disappointed in Shaka than Wojo. As with any job in the real world, there is a learning curve and you don't know what you don't know. The jump from AC to HC is a very large one and I think it's unreasonable(supported by lots of evidence) to think expectations shouldn't be adjusted accordingly.

Theoretically, I guess.  This narrative that has emerged lately though is interesting, but I think misses a key point.

There are not that many good basketball coaches. 

We can find examples of quick success, slow success, maturation, time etc, but really there are way more losers than winners...that is more important than time as an assistant, learning, etc, etc. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Keep in mind your audience.  Some here think that a timeout in a mid-season game is one of the low points in the history of Marquette basketball.

I think its hilarious.  Especially from the older fans.  Marquette was a solid but largely unspectacular program from 1980-2000. 7 NCAA tournament bids in 22 seasons.  A single sweet 16.  Even after the 2003 final 4, Marquette missed the NCAA tournament two straight seasons thereafter.   It wasn't really until the 05-06 season when Marquette moved to the Big East that they started playing big time basketball again.  Yet some here act like the Wojo days are as dark as its been since pre-Al.  Its silly. 

[warriorchick]

This.

Except that it will be indistinguishable from the Boos for Wojo.  Next headline:"Now it's not just the students!"

[warriorchick]

The students need one (or, more likely, several of their own) to lead the way in making booing unacceptable. On political and social issues they (meaning all US college students) tend towards the herd mentality. Some honestly examine all sides of an issue or candidate but I really think that most "get religion" from the energy of a movement and join in. If the same principle could somehow be applied to acceptable behavior at Marquette games, then and only then will the booing stop. Yeah, I know. Probably wishful thinking but...do you really think they will listen to Wojo, the Administration, or...Scoop?

Well, it certainly got them to stop chanting, "Hey!  You Suck!"  when the band played "Rock and Roll Part 2".

[Silent Verbal]

Certainly not, but the first year can be completely thrown out the window.  He had nothing to work with.

When the first NET rankings of the year came out, Buzz's TAMU team was 281, lowest of any P6 school.  That is the definition of having nothing to work with.  He now has them at 116 and might get into the NIT.  It's a good thing he didn't decide to throw his first season at TAMU out the window.

[wadesworld]

When the first NET rankings of the year came out, Buzz's TAMU team was 281, lowest of any P6 school.  That is the definition of having nothing to work with.  He now has them at 116 and might get into the NIT.  It's a good thing he didn't decide to throw his first season at TAMU out the window.

They will not be in the NIT.  I'm sure he'll be thrilled to throw around his soon to be sub .500 season.

Congrats Bazz!

[Uncle Rico]

When the first NET rankings of the year came out, Buzz's TAMU team was 281, lowest of any P6 school.  That is the definition of having nothing to work with.  He now has them at 116 and might get into the NIT.  It's a good thing he didn't decide to throw his first season at TAMU out the window.

The SEC is closer this year to the AAC than the Big East. 

[mu03eng]

When the first NET rankings of the year came out, Buzz's TAMU team was 281, lowest of any P6 school.  That is the definition of having nothing to work with.  He now has them at 116 and might get into the NIT.  It's a good thing he didn't decide to throw his first season at TAMU out the window.

The only thing that proves is that you don't know how Net rankings or any of the other analytics work.

[Galway Eagle]

Well, it certainly got them to stop chanting, "Hey!  You Suck!"  when the band played "Rock and Roll Part 2".

It's was my fifth year. What actually happened was they sent an email saying if we yelled "hey! you suck!" During the Ohio St blow out that they'd stop it. And they did.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When the first NET rankings of the year came out, Buzz's TAMU team was 281, lowest of any P6 school.  That is the definition of having nothing to work with.  He now has them at 116 and might get into the NIT.  It's a good thing he didn't decide to throw his first season at TAMU out the window.

This is a really bad take for a few reasons.

1. TAMU isn't going to the NIT
2. NET is based on results not predictive analytics. So the reason Buzz' team was ranked 281, was because they, under his leadership, were BAD
3. Despite me commenting on how bad they were to start the season (and they were), the NET is notoriously inaccurate in the opening weeks of the season. Teams like Richmond, Liberty, and Duquesne were dubbed top 20 teams.
4. KenPom, which is based on predictive analytics, pegged Texas A&M as the 57th best team in the country preseason based on their incoming roster. They are now 140th in KenPom, a movement of -87. Of course, KenPom isn't perfect, but it is a good neutral evaluater of incoming talent.
5. For funsies, Wojo's first roster was pegged as the 87th best team preseason by KenPom. They finished 93rd for a movement of -6. It would be very easy to make an argument that Wojo's first year was significantly better than Buzz' first year at TAMU.

All that being said, my take on Buzz' TAMU squad is that Buzz did a little buzzcutting in an effort to get his players in quicker. There were guys who could have helped this season that Buzz either ran off or didn't play because he wants to get guys who fit what he wants to do with the team. He did the same thing at Virginia Tech to great effect. Nod to Dr. B for pointing this out and suggesting that Wojo should have done the same.

Of course this means that Buzz did decide to throw his first season at TAMU.

[The Sultan]

This is a really bad take for a few reasons.

1. TAMU isn't going to the NIT
2. NET is based on results not predictive analytics. So the reason Buzz' team was ranked 281, was because they, under his leadership, were BAD
3. Despite me commenting on how bad they were to start the season (and they were), the NET is notoriously inaccurate in the opening weeks of the season. Teams like Richmond, Liberty, and Duquesne were dubbed top 20 teams.
4. KenPom, which is based on predictive analytics, pegged Texas A&M as the 57th best team in the country preseason based on their incoming roster. They are now 140th in KenPom, a movement of -87. Of course, KenPom isn't perfect, but it is a good neutral evaluater of incoming talent.
5. For funsies, Wojo's first roster was pegged as the 87th best team preseason by KenPom. They finished 93rd for a movement of -6. It would be very easy to make an argument that Wojo's first year was significantly better than Buzz' first year at TAMU.

All that being said, my take on Buzz' TAMU squad is that Buzz did a little buzzcutting in an effort to get his players in quicker. There were guys who could have helped this season that Buzz either ran off or didn't play because he wants to get guys who fit what he wants to do with the team. He did the same thing at Virginia Tech to great effect. Nod to Dr. B for pointing this out and suggesting that Wojo should have done the same.

Of course this means that Buzz did decide to throw his first season at TAMU.

I thoroughly am enjoying how people's dumb arguments are getting absolutely destroyed on Scoop the last couple of days.  This is good work.

[CountryRoads]

I thoroughly am enjoying how people's dumb arguments are getting absolutely destroyed on Scoop the last couple of days.  This is good work.

Using KenPom preseason rankings is "absolutely destroying" an argument?

[wadesworld]

Using KenPom preseason rankings is "absolutely destroying" an argument?

You still don't understand it even after he spelled it out word for word for you, huh?

[rocket surgeon]

if this thread can also be used to discuss how wojo/koby handles out press-yikes!!  if seton hall was taking notes(they were) of our breaking(or trying to)georgetown's press, we are in really big trouble. 

the best thing we can hope for is that wojo didn't show 'em our whole press breakin playbook

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'd need to rewatch to be sure, but I was pretty happy with the press break last night. There were a few bad turnovers but I think at least twice that many wide open shots

[jesmu84]

Press break was fine - when Koby was on the bench.