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Author Topic: Jamal Cain 👍🏼  (Read 6573 times)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 06:59:59 AM »
It would be nice if our head coach had a knew who his most talented players were. You wouldn’t think it would be a problem, but, for Wojo - it has been.

You’d also think he’d realize as a former player that you can’t yank guys in and out of games/lineup and expect any kind of consistent performance.

Let’s see:

Derrick Wilson 33 minutes per game with Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson and John Dawson on the roster. Genius.

Starting Sandy Cohen over Deonte Burton and playing Deonte an average of 16 minutes coming off his Big East All Freshman year.   Brilliant!

Trying to shove Haanif Cheatham into a PG role with a pure point Traci Carter on the roster.  Shrewd!

Playing JJJ 56 and 60% of available minutes as a junior and senior.  Smart!

And here we are 5.5 years later still searching for our first NCAA win under your hero...while having an all-time great on the roster these past 4 seasons.

So yea, pardon me for getting irrationally frustrated with how he coaches.




And here we go.

You have a history of equating athleticism with talent, and advocate endlessly for the more athletic player.

Simply put Jamal is not one of the more talented players. He has stretches where he looks very good. He is getting the minutes he deserves.
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TSmith34

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 08:00:49 AM »
Simply put Jamal is not one of the more talented players. He has stretches where he looks very good. He is getting the minutes he deserves.
Yup.  I credit Jamal with keeping a very positive attitude and helping the team where he can.  He's a role player who is good on the boards and with the spot up 3.  But he is getting the minutes he has earned.
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IrwinFletcher

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2020, 08:19:06 AM »
Jamal shooting 51% from the field and 42% from 3.  Actually is our best 3 point shooter percentage wise right now, though obviously, he has only 38 attempts

His rebounding is excellent and I thought his on the ball D was good last night. 

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2020, 08:36:13 AM »
No sh!t. But Roads said Cheatham played at TWO high majors after leaving Marquette.

Unless he's playing for Nebraska and another school, that's still only one high major.

Reread Roads's post.

"Cheatham played at 2 high majors."

1 - Marquette
2 - Nebraska

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2020, 08:39:21 AM »

And here we go.

You have a history of equating athleticism with talent, and advocate endlessly for the more athletic player.

Simply put Jamal is not one of the more talented players. He has stretches where he looks very good. He is getting the minutes he deserves.

Bingo.

Jamal had a great half.  Glad he did.  To take that and turn it into "Wojo doesn't know who his best players are, I played high school ball and unless you've played at my level you just can't know these things.  Wojo is messing with Jamal's head and if he was getting 30 minutes per game you'd be seeing Kevin Durant" is a joke and ignored that Wojo may or may not have played high school ball.

MU82

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2020, 08:47:58 AM »
It would be nice if our head coach had a knew who his most talented players were. You wouldn’t think it would be a problem, but, for Wojo - it has been.

You’d also think he’d realize as a former player that you can’t yank guys in and out of games/lineup and expect any kind of consistent performance.

Let’s see:

Derrick Wilson 33 minutes per game with Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson and John Dawson on the roster. Genius.

Starting Sandy Cohen over Deonte Burton and playing Deonte an average of 16 minutes coming off his Big East All Freshman year.   Brilliant!

Trying to shove Haanif Cheatham into a PG role with a pure point Traci Carter on the roster.  Shrewd!

Playing JJJ 56 and 60% of available minutes as a junior and senior.  Smart!

And here we are 5.5 years later still searching for our first NCAA win under your hero...while having an all-time great on the roster these past 4 seasons.

So yea, pardon me for getting irrationally frustrated with how he coaches.

With the incredible knowledge you have, how is it possible that you are not a P6 college basketball coach?
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Cheeks

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2020, 08:54:47 AM »
No sh!t. But Roads said Cheatham played at TWO high majors after leaving Marquette.

That is not what he said...he said TWO high majors, he said nothing about AFTER MU.   Nebraska and MU are the two.

The verdict is in.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2020, 09:30:01 AM »
Joey started over Cain and Bailey last year.  Bailey is  bigger, a better defender, a better ball handler, and more consistent.   Jamal had a great second half last night.

Brendan handles the ball better than Jamal (less turnover prone), but Brendan also has an abysmal FT Rate because he's rarely aggressive.

Beyond that?  Brendan doesn't do much better, (and actually is worse in many categories) and he isn't as athletic.  Personally, I'd like to see Cain and Bailey play together more, with Koby coming off the bench.

eFG?

Cain 60%
Brendan 54%

2 pt FG%
Cain 57%
Bailey 46%

3pt FG%
Cain 42%
Bailey 39%

FT%
Cain 71%
Bailey 56%

FT Rate
Cain 32.9%
Bailey  9.8%  (20% points below the next lowest FT Rate player on team - Sacar)

Fouls Commited per 40
Cain 3.2
Bailey 4.0

Jamal exceeds Bailey in every category other than Assist Rate (2.8% differential), TO Rate (10% differential), and Block Percentage (0.8% differential)

They are similar players, but Bailey has gotten 20% more minutes.  This isn't meant to dis Brendan - he's much improved over last year.  I'd like to see more Bailey/Cain on the floor.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

CTWarrior

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 09:38:13 AM »
Cain is a fun watch because he is so athletic.  He really skies to grab rebounds.  His faith in his athleticism can be a problem from time to time, like that ill-fated dunk attempt from so far away last night.  That was a big miss at an important time.  He played very well last night and ignited our comeback.

When watching us, there a couple things that usually make me feel like something bad is going to happen.  One is on entry passes to Theo when there is a man between him and the basket, another is when Cain puts the ball on the deck.  The third is those few times a game when Markus has the ball and is well covered and you just know he has decided that he is shooting this time come hell or high water.  Koby does that once or twice a game, too.
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Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 09:51:18 AM »
Cain is a fun watch because he is so athletic.  He really skies to grab rebounds.  His faith in his athleticism can be a problem from time to time, like that ill-fated dunk attempt from so far away last night.  That was a big miss at an important time.  He played very well last night and ignited our comeback.

When watching us, there a couple things that usually make me feel like something bad is going to happen.  One is on entry passes to Theo when there is a man between him and the basket, another is when Cain puts the ball on the deck.  The third is those few times a game when Markus has the ball and is well covered and you just know he has decided that he is shooting this time come hell or high water.  Koby does that once or twice a game, too.

Cain makes 1-2 passes into a defenders hands a game.  His post entry passes are a clinic on how to do everything incorrectly
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Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 10:09:11 AM »
Cain makes 1-2 passes into a defenders hands a game.  His post entry passes are a clinic on how to do everything incorrectly

I don't disagree with poor post entry technique.  However, considering how little our guards share the ball with bigs - don't mind the effort.

Further, this is a pretty simple coaching moment.  So, the poor post entry feeds are as much an indictment of coaching as they are Jamal.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 10:11:13 AM »
I don't disagree with poor post entry technique.  However, considering how little our guards share the ball with bigs - don't mind the effort.


So let me get this straight.  Our bigs are not gifted offensively.  That is why the ball isn't shared with them usually.

So you "appreciate the effort" of someone trying to feed our least talented offensive players and doing it badly???
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2020, 10:18:59 AM »

So let me get this straight.  Our bigs are not gifted offensively.  That is why the ball isn't shared with them usually.

So you "appreciate the effort" of someone trying to feed our least talented offensive players and doing it badly???

I appreciate the effort of playing a team sport, and involving your whole team.  There isn't anything bad about establishing just a sliver of a post game.

Theo's eFG is 48%.  Jayce 68%.  Koby? 42%

Of course I'd like Jamal to be better with his post entry passing, just as I'd like Markus to be better with his perimeter passing, and passing while driving.  Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't on post entry.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

MUfan12

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2020, 10:20:08 AM »
Yeah I don't understand why anyone on this team would throw the ball into the post. Slips, cuts, those type of things? Sure. But neither of them can be counted on to get a bucket themselves. And Theo can't really even be trusted to catch it and get it to the rim.

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2020, 10:24:46 AM »
Ners is really showing his superior basketball knowledge here.

Cain max minutes.

Feed our bigs back to the basket post ups.

He really does have a superior knowledge to anyone else on this board, and to our coaching staff.  He must come up with this stuff while he's in the air with his infinite hang time dunking on people.  Must get boring being so high up and having to pass the time it takes to get back to the ground?

FrennA

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2020, 10:31:59 AM »
I’m with Elon on this one.  While I don’t post much at all, the few times I’ve posted these last two years we’re about the mishandling of Cain......I went to bed for the second half of last nights game so I didn’t see it.  I think He’s a great player who would be playing even better had his confidence not been rocked last year.  I think people see that Wojo would yank him after a TO (I admit some were boneheaded and careless) and agree with Wojos decision.  That still amazes me.  Tell me that Cain is the only one on this team guilty of it and you’re fooling yourself.  The difference is Cain gets yanked.  It’s my personal opinion that Wojo has his favorites and those favorites have a longer leash (see Joey and Bailey as examples).  I’ll tell you that I personally want Cain in at the end of a tight game especially for his rebounding ability - something that gets easily overlooked. 

tower912

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2020, 10:36:38 AM »
This year, at the 4 and 5, I think Wojo has apportioned moments due to production and foul trouble.   I think his feel for it has been pretty good.   When one of them is playing well, he rides them.   I was thrilled for Cain last night.   He was playing well in the second half after playing poorly in the first half and Wojo rode him.   
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manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2020, 10:40:47 AM »
This year, at the 4 and 5, I think Wojo has apportioned moments due to production and foul trouble.   I think his feel for it has been pretty good.   When one of them is playing well, he rides them.   I was thrilled for Cain last night.   He was playing well in the second half after playing poorly in the first half and Wojo rode him.   

This.  Overall Brendan is a far better and player, but he has had the occasional non-factor game, and when that's happened Cain has gotten every opportunity to step in and perform.  It's not like this is the first time Cain's gotten significant run.  It's just one of the rare occasions he's done more than rebound the basketball in those minutes.

Good guy.  Glad he stuck around.  Rebounds well.  But beyond that he doesn't do anything significant beyond hitting the warmup open jumper.  The one thing he does well enough to warrant playing time (rebound) is something that we are already good at even with Wojo's mind games pinning him to the bench (very, very good rebounding team).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 11:04:04 AM by manesworld »

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2020, 11:05:10 AM »
I don't disagree with poor post entry technique.  However, considering how little our guards share the ball with bigs - don't mind the effort.

Further, this is a pretty simple coaching moment.  So, the poor post entry feeds are as much an indictment of coaching as they are Jamal.

Dont disagree on that as far as coaching, although he comes out it seems each time he does it.... and others dont struggle like he does. No one else feeds the post from the top of the key, no one else feeds from the high side when the post has position on the low side etc
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jsglow

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2020, 11:16:46 AM »
Not going to read the incessant drivel.  I'll simply say two things.  I love Jamal's attitude and effort.  And I think he thought he was Giannis for a split second last night.  That dunk would have been epic.

NCMUFan

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »
Jamal has incredible natural ability.  He is smooth and can jump like a kangaroo.  I think splitting time with Brendan is the best option right now with whomever is playing better in a particular game getting the majority of playing time for that game.  With good coaching and applying what he learns, he could have an impressive career overseas playing pro BB.

MU82

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2020, 11:32:08 AM »
This year, at the 4 and 5, I think Wojo has apportioned moments due to production and foul trouble.   I think his feel for it has been pretty good.   When one of them is playing well, he rides them.   I was thrilled for Cain last night.   He was playing well in the second half after playing poorly in the first half and Wojo rode him.

This, obviously.

If one wants to make the argument that Wojo unfairly banished Cain last year, that's at least a reasonable point. But it also has nothing to do with this season, when Wojo usually has given him plenty of playing time, has mostly stuck with him through mistakes, and, as has been the case with anybody else, has ridden him when he's really played well.

As others have noted, Cain can be a disaster when he puts the ball on the floor, and he still loses his man too often on defense. But he has improved a lot this season and has contributed very nicely in many, many games. He is one of my favorite Warriors to watch.

Also agree with others that while that dunk would have been spectacular last night, failing to get those 2 points at that stage of the game was a pretty major missed opportunity.
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Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2020, 11:55:11 AM »
Ners is really showing his superior basketball knowledge here.

Cain max minutes.

Feed our bigs back to the basket post ups.

He really does have a superior knowledge to anyone else on this board, and to our coaching staff.  He must come up with this stuff while he's in the air with his infinite hang time dunking on people.  Must get boring being so high up and having to pass the time it takes to get back to the ground?

You really are a tool Wades.  Truly. 

You are a volleyball guy, who ironically acts as if you have superior basketball knowledge to anyone else on this board.  At least I'm not so dumb to wade into a volleyball message board and act like a know it all.

This is a board where people share opinions and debate things.  All you do?  Defend every single thing Wojo does from recruiting, to playing time, to in-game coaching.  In your ignorant view - Wojo can do no wrong, has done now wrong, and has been beyond reproach.

At least I can compliment Wojo where I see fit.  You?  99.5% of your posts are all ProJo.  You used to support the Hausers and start topics begging for Markus to share the ball - once they transferred out they were vanilla soft serve, "who," weak, selfish, cry babies, etc.

When we aren't involved with a recruit it would seem we should be, or we don't close the deal with a recruit we were actively pursusing - its always because we weren't willing to "pay," or be shady, etc.

You give apologist a new definition entirely.  So far, the guy you've hitched your horse to through and through has produced arguably the worst results at MU since Bob Dukiet.  Can't even win an NCAA game or advance to semis of Big East any of the last three years with the program's all-time leading scorer that Stan landed. 

Hopefully this will be the year we breakthrough, but if we don't, I know we can count on one thing:  You will absolutely tell us all that NCAA is a crapshoot, refs were terrible, we got a bad draw, location, etc.  If we win a couple of games:  You will pop off suggesting Wojo is making MU Duke north - yet 1 year does not make a pattern, trend, etc. 
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

CTWarrior

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2020, 11:56:17 AM »
Makes alot of really dumb mistakes, makes really poor passes and i dont believe he possesses a great bb IQ, but boy oh boy does he compete. If BB competed like jamal he could be all world.  Wojo praised jamal about how hard he played n started the comeback.  Said if the starters played that hard they wouldnt have been down 18
Great point.
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Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2020, 12:04:02 PM »
I’m with Elon on this one.  While I don’t post much at all, the few times I’ve posted these last two years we’re about the mishandling of Cain......I went to bed for the second half of last nights game so I didn’t see it.  I think He’s a great player who would be playing even better had his confidence not been rocked last year.  I think people see that Wojo would yank him after a TO (I admit some were boneheaded and careless) and agree with Wojos decision.  That still amazes me.  Tell me that Cain is the only one on this team guilty of it and you’re fooling yourself.  The difference is Cain gets yanked.  It’s my personal opinion that Wojo has his favorites and those favorites have a longer leash (see Joey and Bailey as examples).  I’ll tell you that I personally want Cain in at the end of a tight game especially for his rebounding ability - something that gets easily overlooked.

You are 100% on point.  Wojo absolutely develops favorites, and the leash extended is quite different.

Brendan's leash has been FAR longer than Cain's.  No better way to destroy a player's confidence than to yank him out consistently after a mistake/turnover.  Meanwhile you watch the chosen ones throw the ball all over the place, without any consequence.  There is a reason why many players have regressed/haven't improved much under Wojo, transferred, quit mid-season, etc.

Now, he has gotten better, but he needs to develop a bit more consistency in his approach.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

 

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