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Author Topic: Jamal Cain 👍🏼  (Read 6577 times)

Galway Eagle

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2020, 12:05:48 PM »
So far, the guy you've hitched your horse to through and through has produced arguably the worst results at MU since Bob Dukiet. 

Not to quote JB but

#fakenews #lies
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2020, 12:10:41 PM »
This.  Overall Brendan is a far better and player, but he has had the occasional non-factor game, and when that's happened Cain has gotten every opportunity to step in and perform.  It's not like this is the first time Cain's gotten significant run.  It's just one of the rare occasions he's done more than rebound the basketball in those minutes.

Good guy.  Glad he stuck around.  Rebounds well.  But beyond that he doesn't do anything significant beyond hitting the warmup open jumper.  The one thing he does well enough to warrant playing time (rebound) is something that we are already good at even with Wojo's mind games pinning him to the bench (very, very good rebounding team).

LOL.  Except Cain outperforms Brendan in virtually every measurable category.  What a dick thing to say:  Cain does nothing "significant beyond hitting the warmup open jumper."

Brendan has greatly improved over last seasons mostly forgettable year.  I like what he brings.  As I've posted, I'd like to see more of him and Cain together.  Rebounding and defense would be really strong, and with both of their shooting ability, we could space the floor quite well.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

JakeBarnes

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2020, 12:17:00 PM »
LOL.  In limited minutes and sample size,Except Cain outperforms Brendan in virtually every measurable category.  What a dick thing to say:  Cain does nothing "significant beyond hitting the warmup open jumper."

Brendan has greatly improved over last seasons mostly forgettable year.  I like what he brings.  As I've posted, I'd like to see more of him and Cain together.  Rebounding and defense would be really strong, and with both of their shooting ability, we could space the floor quite well.

FIFY.
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


TAMU Garcia

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2020, 12:18:47 PM »
Length of leash is not based on favorites, if it was, Matt wouldn't have been glued to the bench his senior year. It is based on who the best players are. Markus gets to play through more mistakes than everyone does. Koby gets to play through more mistakes than Symir does. Brendan gets to play through more mistakes than Jamal does because he is better than Jamal at least right now.

I agree that Cain has a lot of upside. He has all the physical tools but still doesn't have the basketball IQ to consistently utilize them. He is my pick this year to be the surprise MU player who gets a cup of coffee in the NBA. But just like Buzz didn't mismanage Juan Anderson when he was in college, I don't think Wojo is mismanaging Cain. I think he is one of those players that won't peak until several years after he graduates.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2020, 12:22:12 PM »
You really are a tool Wades.  Truly. 

You are a volleyball guy, who ironically acts as if you have superior basketball knowledge to anyone else on this board.  At least I'm not so dumb to wade into a volleyball message board and act like a know it all.

This is a board where people share opinions and debate things.  All you do?  Defend every single thing Wojo does from recruiting, to playing time, to in-game coaching.  In your ignorant view - Wojo can do no wrong, has done now wrong, and has been beyond reproach.

At least I can compliment Wojo where I see fit.  You?  99.5% of your posts are all ProJo.  You used to support the Hausers and start topics begging for Markus to share the ball - once they transferred out they were vanilla soft serve, "who," weak, selfish, cry babies, etc.

When we aren't involved with a recruit it would seem we should be, or we don't close the deal with a recruit we were actively pursusing - its always because we weren't willing to "pay," or be shady, etc.

You give apologist a new definition entirely.  So far, the guy you've hitched your horse to through and through has produced arguably the worst results at MU since Bob Dukiet.  Can't even win an NCAA game or advance to semis of Big East any of the last three years with the program's all-time leading scorer that Stan landed. 

Hopefully this will be the year we breakthrough, but if we don't, I know we can count on one thing:  You will absolutely tell us all that NCAA is a crapshoot, refs were terrible, we got a bad draw, location, etc.  If we win a couple of games:  You will pop off suggesting Wojo is making MU Duke north - yet 1 year does not make a pattern, trend, etc.

Lol. Take a minute to cool down before posting after you get all triggered next time. Then maybe you’ll get something right. I think I’ve made one of the about twenty statements you claim I’ve made.

Also, I’m guessing you’ll be consistent and hold the belief Matt Heldt was one of the best players in the country given his off the charts efficiency.

Cheeks

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2020, 12:24:56 PM »
You really are a tool Wades.  Truly. 

You are a volleyball guy, who ironically acts as if you have superior basketball knowledge to anyone else on this board.  At least I'm not so dumb to wade into a volleyball message board and act like a know it all.

This is a board where people share opinions and debate things.  All you do?  Defend every single thing Wojo does from recruiting, to playing time, to in-game coaching.  In your ignorant view - Wojo can do no wrong, has done now wrong, and has been beyond reproach.

At least I can compliment Wojo where I see fit.  You?  99.5% of your posts are all ProJo.  You used to support the Hausers and start topics begging for Markus to share the ball - once they transferred out they were vanilla soft serve, "who," weak, selfish, cry babies, etc.

When we aren't involved with a recruit it would seem we should be, or we don't close the deal with a recruit we were actively pursusing - its always because we weren't willing to "pay," or be shady, etc.

You give apologist a new definition entirely.  So far, the guy you've hitched your horse to through and through has produced arguably the worst results at MU since Bob Dukiet.  Can't even win an NCAA game or advance to semis of Big East any of the last three years with the program's all-time leading scorer that Stan landed. 

Hopefully this will be the year we breakthrough, but if we don't, I know we can count on one thing:  You will absolutely tell us all that NCAA is a crapshoot, refs were terrible, we got a bad draw, location, etc.  If we win a couple of games:  You will pop off suggesting Wojo is making MU Duke north - yet 1 year does not make a pattern, trend, etc.

Dribble dribble


For you Verdict Is In brigade, are you all really making the argument that poor coach suddenly becomes good or knowledgeable over the course of one 40 minute period in March?   Just think about that for a moment before you respond, because that’s the vibe a lot of you give off.

It’s as if a light will go based on that one result over 40 minutes and everything is suddenly erased.  Guess what will happen if we win...then you will push the goalposts to he hasn’t gone to a Sweet 16, then it will be an Elite 8.   Al McGuire captured it well with our fanbase with his quote about it is never good enough....no wonder why people clam out to get away.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:31:59 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2020, 12:25:44 PM »
LOL.  Except Cain outperforms Brendan in virtually every measurable category.  What a dick thing to say:  Cain does nothing "significant beyond hitting the warmup open jumper."

Sample size matters in these things. Also, the categories Cain beats Bailey in he has a slim lead in most of them (other than FTR) but gets destroyed in TO%. That's going to undo a lot of positives. Quickest way to lose playing time with any coach, not just Wojo, is TOs and defensive lapses. Unfortunately, those are Cain's Achilles' heel.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Cheeks

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2020, 12:27:08 PM »
Coaches have favorites but that doesn’t mean they play minutes.  Matt Heldt anyone?

It’s more about confidence with players.  Cain as freak athleticism, and can make runs that are really good.  He still has mistakes that are hard to excuse (not nearly as many as in the past) which I am sure drives Wojo and staff crazy.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2020, 12:30:21 PM »
Not to quote JB but

#fakenews #lies

+ tax

Ners apparently doesn’t understand history or comparative segments
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2020, 12:31:13 PM »
LOL.  Except Cain outperforms Brendan in virtually every measurable category.  What a dick thing to say:  Cain does nothing "significant beyond hitting the warmup open jumper."

Brendan has greatly improved over last seasons mostly forgettable year.  I like what he brings.  As I've posted, I'd like to see more of him and Cain together.  Rebounding and defense would be really strong, and with both of their shooting ability, we could space the floor quite well.

How do measure defensive breakdowns by players....
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2020, 12:59:12 PM »
Sample size matters in these things. Also, the categories Cain beats Bailey in he has a slim lead in most of them (other than FTR) but gets destroyed in TO%. That's going to undo a lot of positives. Quickest way to lose playing time with any coach, not just Wojo, is TOs and defensive lapses. Unfortunately, those are Cain's Achilles' heel.

Cain rarely has defensive lapses, he's a very good on-ball defender, and help-side defender.  Do yourself a favor - isolate watching Cain and Bailey on D, and come back and let me know if you think Brendan is better?  IMO, they are both in our Top 4 defenders.

As for "sample size," hard to have a bigger sample size with 20% less PT.  Also, I'd argue 6% eFG% is a big difference, the FT Rate differential is significant.

Further, any one who has played the game will tell you it is harder to produce if you are frequently relegated to 2-4 minute stints of PT.  I understand some think every player should come in guns ablaze and post great numbers right off the bench...but..it doesn't work like that.

Lastly, to reiterate - This is NOT a dis of Brendan - I'd just like to see a lot more of them playing together/Cain's PT approach 25 minutes on a consistent basis.

Cain's PT is like a Yo-Yo.  Since beginning of conference play in minutes:  17, 10, 9, 9, 19, 8, 21, 21, 29, 13, 10, 22.  Brendan has had just 1 game under 10 minutes all year. Since conference play began his low water minutes marks have been 18 and 19 - the rest are virtually all 30+.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2020, 01:00:32 PM »
Cain rarely has defensive lapses, he's a very good on-ball defender, and help-side defender.  Do yourself a favor - isolate watching Cain and Bailey on D, and come back and let me know if you think Brendan is better?  IMO, they are both in our Top 4 defenders.

As for "sample size," hard to have a bigger sample size with 20% less PT.  Also, I'd argue 6% eFG% is a big difference, the FT Rate differential is significant.

Further, any one who has played the game will tell you it is harder to produce if you are frequently relegated to 2-4 minute stints of PT.  I understand some think every player should come in guns ablaze and post great numbers right off the bench...but..it doesn't work like that.

Lastly, to reiterate - This is NOT a dis of Brendan - I'd just like to see a lot more of them playing together/Cain's PT approach 25 minutes on a consistent basis.

Cain's PT is like a Yo-Yo.  Since beginning of conference play in minutes:  17, 10, 9, 9, 19, 8, 21, 21, 29, 13, 10, 22.  Brendan has had just 1 game under 10 minutes all year. Since conference play began his low water minutes marks have been 18 and 19 - the rest are virtually all 30+.

 ;D ;D ;D

Gets triggered when I mock this argument.  Then goes and makes the argument an hour later.  Hysterical.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2020, 01:06:26 PM »
;D ;D ;D

Gets triggered when I mock this argument.  Then goes and makes the argument an hour later.  Hysterical.

There is no "triggered" Wades.  You miss the mark 9 times out of 10 with your basketball analysis.  To be expected for a volleyball guy.  I'd be insulted if a guy like you actually agreed with my perspective.  Truly.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

IL Warrior

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2020, 01:11:01 PM »
Cain rarely has defensive lapses, he's a very good on-ball defender, and help-side defender.  Do yourself a favor - isolate watching Cain and Bailey on D, and come back and let me know if you think Brendan is better?  IMO, they are both in our Top 4 defenders.

As for "sample size," hard to have a bigger sample size with 20% less PT.  Also, I'd argue 6% eFG% is a big difference, the FT Rate differential is significant.

Further, any one who has played the game will tell you it is harder to produce if you are frequently relegated to 2-4 minute stints of PT.  I understand some think every player should come in guns ablaze and post great numbers right off the bench...but..it doesn't work like that.

Lastly, to reiterate - This is NOT a dis of Brendan - I'd just like to see a lot more of them playing together/Cain's PT approach 25 minutes on a consistent basis.

Cain's PT is like a Yo-Yo.  Since beginning of conference play in minutes:  17, 10, 9, 9, 19, 8, 21, 21, 29, 13, 10, 22.  Brendan has had just 1 game under 10 minutes all year. Since conference play began his low water minutes marks have been 18 and 19 - the rest are virtually all 30+.
Hypothesis: Wojo sucks because he isn't playing Cain enough.
Evidence: Playing time by game of 17-10-9-9-19-8-21-21-29-13-10-22
Analysis: First 6 games - 72 minutes (12 mpg)
Last 6 games - 116 minutes (19.3 mpg)

Yep. That checks out.  ::)

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2020, 01:11:15 PM »
There is no "triggered" Wades.  You miss the mark 9 times out of 10 with your basketball analysis.  To be expected for a volleyball guy.  I'd be insulted if a guy like you actually agreed with my perspective.  Truly.

Outstanding.

manesworld

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2020, 01:15:01 PM »
Hypothesis: Wojo sucks because he isn't playing Cain enough.
Evidence: Playing time by game of 17-10-9-9-19-8-21-21-29-13-10-22
Analysis: First 6 games - 72 minutes (12 mpg)
Last 6 games - 116 minutes (19.3 mpg)

Yep. That checks out.  ::)

You must not be in the rarified air of "former high school basketball player."  Only a very select few in the world have reached that level.  You'd understand if you had, you dumb flute player.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2020, 01:15:56 PM »
I dunked a basketball
Grifter

TSmith34

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2020, 01:22:35 PM »
I dunked a flute player
"Bigly mentally unstable, believe me.  Sad, unbelievably sad."

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2020, 01:34:59 PM »
I dunked a flute player

Was he in treble?

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2020, 01:35:28 PM »
I've played and watched enough basketball to know that sometimes players play out of their mind for a game.  And then they go right back to their norm.  While it would be nice if yesterday was indicative of a new Jamal, my guess is that it will be viewed as an outlier by season's end.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2020, 01:43:30 PM »
Cain rarely has defensive lapses, he's a very good on-ball defender, and help-side defender.  Do yourself a favor - isolate watching Cain and Bailey on D, and come back and let me know if you think Brendan is better?  IMO, they are both in our Top 4 defenders.

Cain is a very good on ball defender, better than Bailey IMHO. When his assignment has the ball and he's on them, I'd rather have him than most of the players on the team.

He isn't a great team defender. Other than maybe Symir he leads the team in missed rotations, being late to help defense, and simply losing his man when his assignment is off ball.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Elonsmusk

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2020, 01:47:00 PM »
Hypothesis: Wojo sucks because he isn't playing Cain enough.
Evidence: Playing time by game of 17-10-9-9-19-8-21-21-29-13-10-22
Analysis: First 6 games - 72 minutes (12 mpg)
Last 6 games - 116 minutes (19.3 mpg)

Yep. That checks out.  ::)

Last 4 games:  29, 13, 10, 22.  Super consistent.  As I said - it's been a yo-yo.  Most don't function well in any role when they have zero consistency in their role, nor have any idea what will be their function any given day.
 
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2020, 02:03:20 PM »
Last 4 games:  29, 13, 10, 22.  Super consistent.  As I said - it's been a yo-yo.  Most don't function well in any role when they have zero consistency in their role, nor have any idea what will be their function any given day.

That’s a Jamal problem, not a Wojo problem
Grifter

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2020, 02:15:30 PM »
That’s a Jamal problem, not a Wojo problem


But this is what Ners does.  He uses yo-yo minutes as a reason for poor production.  But in reality it's the opposite.  They get yo-yo minutes because they don't consistently produce.

He used to have the same complaint about Traci Carter.  Who has since transferred twice - first to LaSalle in the A10 and then to Hartford in the American East, where he still can't really shoot.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: Jamal Cain 👍🏼
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2020, 02:18:07 PM »

But this is what Ners does.  He uses yo-yo minutes as a reason for poor production.  But in reality it's the opposite.  They get yo-yo minutes because they don't consistently produce.

He used to have the same complaint about Traci Carter.  Who has since transferred twice - first to LaSalle in the A10 and then to Hartford in the American East, where he still can't really shoot.

I know.  Anyone that’s ever played the game would know that, too.
Grifter