Jamal Cain 👍🏼

[willie warrior]

Here is the thing.   Ners, for whatever reason, was so emotionally invested in JaJuan, Deonte, and Dawson, that how they were handled by Buzz and then Wojo completely infused his opinion of Buzz's last year and then Wojo.    His mind was made up about Wojo in December of 2014 when two of the three left.    It still galls him and it still infuses his perception of every decision Wojo makes.
    Nobody here is going to change his mind.   No argument exists.    With time, if Wojo proves successful, maybe ners will evolve, but he will always believe that Wojo messed up with three players that Ners was fond of.      And any thing that is less successful will only reinforce that perception.     Can't be changed.     Accept, work around.

Love the phrase here; "With time, if Wojo proves successful..."
FFS, he already has 6 years. Back to the old fallback excuse, Wojo needs a lifetime contract.

[tower912]

Ffs, he will have won between 105-110 games in years 2-6.   Averaging 21-22 wins a year over a 5 year stretch is considered successful most places.

[Elonsmusk]

82, Tower - Brew hit the nail on the head with his post about Cain being a bench player, and thus why his leash is shorter/needs to play really well to get minutes.

Ultimately, I don't believe Bailey is better than Cain - which is where my frustration comes in.  I suspect if the roles were reversed and Cain had the long leash, and Brendan the short leash - Cain's numbers would be much better than Brendan trying to prove himself in 2-4 minutes of run.  Think Wojo has gotten it wrong multiples times at MU as it relates to who his best players are/starters should be.

Bailey came in and was started his first 3 games at MU last year - perhaps he "earned" that based on how he played in practice.  However, Cain had a pretty good freshman season. 

Cain has just gotten back to the form he had as a freshman.  Not uncommon in Wojo's tenure for players to regress/lose confidence - Duane Wilson, Cohen, Cheatham, Morrow, to name a few.

I've complimented Wojo multiple times this year.  Hated how he coached Years 1 & 2 particularly - and yes that colored my perception moving forward.  However, he's improved some.  The team is exceeding my expectations this season - for the first time in his 6 years as head coach.

Guess I shouldn't have expected the guy to be a quick study, as he's been the classic grinder.  Let's hope he proves out the parable of the turtle vs the hare.  Will be interesting to see what Wojo is able to achieve going forward without Markus - which was ultimately the "joke" of the Wojo's Playbook "banner."

[tower912]

I am glad you are back and I am enjoying your perspective.   I think we agree about one thing.  Cain AND Bailey did not get enough minutes in 18-19 as  the Hausers wore down.   I, too, liked Cain as a freshman and hoped he would progress, but his sophomore season was basically a waste.    I thought Bailey showed great promise in limited opportunities last year.

This year, I think Bailey has shown more, but Wojo has given plenty of run to Cain when Bailey has played poorly.   What Cain has done in those opportunities has been erratic.    I, too, enjoy watching them on the floor together.   But the structure of the roster precludes them from doing that for extended stretches.   Neither can guard a Big East 5.   To play them together at forward takes minutes away from Sacar, Koby, or Markus.   If they are both in foul trouble, then Sacar, Greg, Koby, Symir end up getting posted up by 6'8.

But the good news is that Cain has shown enough that you will champion him.

[willie warrior]

Ffs, he will have won between 105-110 games in years 2-6.   Averaging 21-22 wins a year over a 5 year stretch is considered successful most places.

Cherry picking. What about last season's meltdown. What about his inability to deal with Hausergate. Those are just 2 recent examples that you conveniently forget. Could go on, such as inability to win a dance game, inability to do well in BEast tourney, etc., FFS. But to you and your slobbering Wojo bias it matters not. Your idea of success is your opinion
If you look at Wojos overall performance for 6 years objectively it has been average. And he has the best resources in the league. Not a stellar success, hence according to you he needs at least another 6 years to better evaluate. After all he is still a work in progress and has us trending upward  as evidenced by his record in the league this year  all with the best resources.

[Cheeks]

82, Tower - Brew hit the nail on the head with his post about Cain being a bench player, and thus why his leash is shorter/needs to play really well to get minutes.

Ultimately, I don't believe Bailey is better than Cain - which is where my frustration comes in.  I suspect if the roles were reversed and Cain had the long leash, and Brendan the short leash - Cain's numbers would be much better than Brendan trying to prove himself in 2-4 minutes of run.  Think Wojo has gotten it wrong multiples times at MU as it relates to who his best players are/starters should be.

Bailey came in and was started his first 3 games at MU last year - perhaps he "earned" that based on how he played in practice.  However, Cain had a pretty good freshman season. 

Cain has just gotten back to the form he had as a freshman.  Not uncommon in Wojo's tenure for players to regress/lose confidence - Duane Wilson, Cohen, Cheatham, Morrow, to name a few.

I've complimented Wojo multiple times this year.  Hated how he coached Years 1 & 2 particularly - and yes that colored my perception moving forward.  However, he's improved some.  The team is exceeding my expectations this season - for the first time in his 6 years as head coach.

Guess I shouldn't have expected the guy to be a quick study, as he's been the classic grinder.  Let's hope he proves out the parable of the turtle vs the hare.  Will be interesting to see what Wojo is able to achieve going forward without Markus - which was ultimately the "joke" of the Wojo's Playbook "banner."

The coaching staff sees these guys every day and have made this decision.  If Cain thought he was better and not receiving the minutes he deserved, he would likely leave.

[Cheeks]

Cherry picking. What about last season's meltdown. What about his inability to deal with Hausergate. Those are just 2 recent examples that you conveniently forget. Could go on, such as inability to win a dance game, inability to do well in BEast tourney, etc., FFS. But to you and your slobbering Wojo bias it matters not. Your idea of success is your opinion
If you look at Wojos overall performance for 6 years objectively it has been average. And he has the best resources in the league. Not a stellar success, hence according to you he needs at least another 6 years to better evaluate. After all he is still a work in progress and has us trending upward  as evidenced by his record in the league this year  all with the best resources.

Aren’t you cherry picking?  Only the meltdown counts in your world, not the rest?  Lol

[79Warrior]

Cherry picking. What about last season's meltdown. What about his inability to deal with Hausergate. Those are just 2 recent examples that you conveniently forget. Could go on, such as inability to win a dance game, inability to do well in BEast tourney, etc., FFS. But to you and your slobbering Wojo bias it matters not. Your idea of success is your opinion
If you look at Wojos overall performance for 6 years objectively it has been average. And he has the best resources in the league. Not a stellar success, hence according to you he needs at least another 6 years to better evaluate. After all he is still a work in progress and has us trending upward  as evidenced by his record in the league this year  all with the best resources.

Willie,
How do you know he did not deal with Hausergate? Perhaps them leaving was him dealing with it. I have no idea and at this point don't care. This years team is currently positioned well in the BE. Let's see if we have a better finish than last season.

[wadesworld]

Jamal started last season with 15, 19, 16, 15, and 15 minutes. He provided basically nothing positive beyond his defensive rebounding, and his minutes fell off after that.

We get it. If Wojo just upped those to 40 minutes every night and waited it out through the regular season we would’ve seen Jamal become Michael Jordan and even though we might’ve been outside the NCAA Tournament, Cain would’ve carried us to the BET title and then an NCAA Championship.

Or maybe Cain got his chance to earn the same (or more) minutes he did as a freshman and didn’t perform, so he lost those minutes. Weird.

[tower912]

Your biases blind you to the big picture that maybe 5 programs in the country fire coaches averaging 21-22 over a 5 year stretch.   It simply doesn't happen at power 6 conference schools without a scandal.   If MU runs him, he has another power 6 team hire him in a week and tout his record when they do so.   
   Take a step back and look at who gets hired and fired.   Georgia was elated to land Crean.   TAMU fell over themselves to get Buzz.   UCLA celebrated Cronin.   IU settled for Dayton's coach.   Look around.   Do the math.  105-110 wins in years 2-6 is what the vast majority of programs aspire to.   

Yep, needs to win some postseason games.  Hausergate?   Let them walk.  If there was actually a letter, celebrate their departure.   Sure didn't negatively affect recruiting.


   I think Wojo is Crean without Wade.   Solid coach.  Still young, still improving, still not at what I think his ceiling will be.
 

[HutchwasClutch]

Wojo is not a solid coach, sorry.  His teams have no identity on either end of the court, or with intangibles.

Wednesday’s loss they looked so bad on offense because there was no off the ball movement. It was just jack up a three or someone, mostly Markus,  try to take his man one on one. Then the final 10-12 minutes they played off each other, moved and cut without the ball, and got themselves back in the game. Meanwhile, Nova was playing team offense all game.

But the question becomes, how is it after 6 years they don’t have a discernible offensive system in place to fall back on and prevent that from happening so you don’t fall into a trap of playing individual basketball? 

I’m not writing off Wojo, but I just don’t see him being anything more than ordinary at best and results of previous 5 years, especially late season performances, back up my opinion.

[Cheeks]

Wojo is not a solid coach, sorry.  His teams have no identity on either end of the court, or with intangibles.

Wednesday’s loss they looked so bad on offense because there was no off the ball movement. It was just jack up a three or someone, mostly Markus,  try to take his man one on one. Then the final 10-12 minutes they played off each other, moved and cut without the ball, and got themselves back in the game. Meanwhile, Nova was playing team offense all game.

But the question becomes, how is it after 6 years they don’t have a discernible offensive system in place to fall back on and prevent that from happening so you don’t fall into a trap of playing individual basketball? 

I’m not writing off Wojo, but I just don’t see him being anything more than ordinary at best and results of previous 5 years back up my opinion.

Do it again with MU destroying Villanova and Butler at home........

[brewcity77]

So he gets credit for his team falling behind but not for them coming back and making it a one-possession game with the ball in the final 15 seconds?

We could win a national title this year and we'll still hear "Wojo got lucky Markus got hot," "It's not that impressive because we didn't beat a higher seed until the Final Four," or "but how will he win in the future without this senior class?"

The idea that we have no offensive identity when we have the 17th ranked offense in the country & 2nd in the conference is beyond ridiculous. Especially when the last 4 years have been ranked 8/12/32/17. The rest of the Big East coaches must be really effing stupid if they can't stop us with "no discernable offensive system."

Give me a damn break. Do you know how many other coaches have had top-32 offenses each of the past 4 years? Just 6: John Calipari, Bill Self, Mike Krzyzweski, Jay Wright, Chris Mack, & Randy Bennett. Either Wojo is a really good offensive coach or there are about 345 really really terrible offensive coaches out there.

[Uncle Rico]

So he gets credit for his team falling behind but not for them coming back and making it a one-possession game with the ball in the final 15 seconds?

We could win a national title this year and we'll still hear "Wojo got lucky Markus got hot," "It's not that impressive because we didn't beat a higher seed until the Final Four," or "but how will he win in the future without this senior class?"

The idea that we have no offensive identity when we have the 17th ranked offense in the country & 2nd in the conference is beyond ridiculous. Especially when the last 4 years have been ranked 8/12/32/17. The rest of the Big East coaches must be really effing stupid if they can't stop us with "no discernable offensive system."

Give me a damn break. Do you know how many other coaches have had top-32 offenses each of the past 4 years? Just 6: John Calipari, Bill Self, Mike Krzyzweski, Jay Wright, Chris Mack, & Randy Bennett. Either Wojo is a really good offensive coach or there are about 345 really really terrible offensive coaches out there.

There is no room for facts on scoop

[wadesworld]

Wojo is not a solid coach, sorry.  His teams have no identity on either end of the court, or with intangibles.

Wednesday’s loss they looked so bad on offense because there was no off the ball movement. It was just jack up a three or someone, mostly Markus,  try to take his man one on one. Then the final 10-12 minutes they played off each other, moved and cut without the ball, and got themselves back in the game. Meanwhile, Nova was playing team offense all game.

But the question becomes, how is it after 6 years they don’t have a discernible offensive system in place to fall back on and prevent that from happening so you don’t fall into a trap of playing individual basketball? 

I’m not writing off Wojo, but I just don’t see him being anything more than ordinary at best and results of previous 5 years, especially late season performances, back up my opinion.

Marquette's offense is the 17th best offense in the country this year, was 32nd last year, was 12th the year before, and was 8th the year before.  Using Marquette's offense to prove Wojo stinks is...odd.

[Cheeks]

Marquette's offense is the 17th best offense in the country this year, was 32nd last year, was 12th the year before, and was 8th the year before.  Using Marquette's offense to prove Wojo stinks is...odd.

Thank you

[HutchwasClutch]

So he gets credit for his team falling behind but not for them coming back and making it a one-possession game with the ball in the final 15 seconds?

We could win a national title this year and we'll still hear "Wojo got lucky Markus got hot," "It's not that impressive because we didn't beat a higher seed until the Final Four," or "but how will he win in the future without this senior class?"

The idea that we have no offensive identity when we have the 17th ranked offense in the country & 2nd in the conference is beyond ridiculous. Especially when the last 4 years have been ranked 8/12/32/17. The rest of the Big East coaches must be really effing stupid if they can't stop us with "no discernable offensive system."

Give me a damn break. Do you know how many other coaches have had top-32 offenses each of the past 4 years? Just 6: John Calipari, Bill Self, Mike Krzyzweski, Jay Wright, Chris Mack, & Randy Bennett. Either Wojo is a really good offensive coach or there are about 345 really really terrible offensive coaches out there.

If I wasn’t giving Wojo credit, I wouldn’t have even mentioned the run.

I described our offense against Villanova for what it was. We were easy to guard for way too much of the game, and it was unacceptably poor.

Sorry that ruffles you feathers. If our offense has been so great under Wojo, and offensive rankings tell the whole story, how do you explain zero NCAA wins, two appearances only, and an epic meltdown last March where Nova backed into the regular season championship. At least rankings will help you feel better that everything is just dandy. 

[BM1090]

Amazing that people say we don't have enough talent and have terrible coaching, yet we'll make our 3rd NCAA tournament in 4 years.

[wadesworld]

If I wasn’t giving Wojo credit, I wouldn’t have even mentioned the run.

I described our offense against Villanova for what it was. We were easy to guard for way too much of the game, and it was unacceptably poor.

Sorry that ruffles you feathers. If our offense has been so great under Wojo, and offensive rankings tell the whole story, how do you explain zero NCAA wins, two appearances only, and an epic meltdown last March where Nova backed into the regular season championship. At least rankings will help you feel better that everything is just dandy.

Aka “My statement was very easily proven wrong so now I’m going to make a new argument and say you’re just a sleeper.”

[HutchwasClutch]

Marquette's offense is the 17th best offense in the country this year, was 32nd last year, was 12th the year before, and was 8th the year before.  Using Marquette's offense to prove Wojo stinks is...odd.

If it would have been less than awful most of Wednesday’s game, we probably win it. We still had a chance the last minute in spite of all the problems. And again begs the question, how does that happen? It was way more than just an off night shooting as previously stated.

What’s going to happen to our wonderful offensive rankings when we don’t have the most prolific scorer in school history anymore?  A guy that score 20 without breaking a sweat.

[Cheeks]

If I wasn’t giving Wojo credit, I wouldn’t have even mentioned the run.

I described our offense against Villanova for what it was. We were easy to guard for way too much of the game, and it was unacceptably poor.

Sorry that ruffles you feathers. If our offense has been so great under Wojo, and offensive rankings tell the whole story, how do you explain zero NCAA wins, two appearances only, and an epic meltdown last March where Nova backed into the regular season championship. At least rankings will help you feel better that everything is just dandy.

How do you explain zero wins....we played two better teams that day.  That’s how.  Weird that it has been two appearances in the last three years...but your agenda rings loudly.

[Cheeks]

If it would have been less than awful most of Wednesday’s game, we probably win it. We still had a chance the last minute in spite of all the problems. And again begs the question, how does that happen? It was way more than just an off night shooting as previously stated.

What’s going to happen to our wonderful offensive rankings when we don’t have the most prolific scorer in school history anymore?  A guy that score 20 without breaking a sweat.

The offense got us plenty of open looks which we didn’t hit.  Watch the game again.  The coaching staff cannot make shots for players.

[Elonsmusk]

So he gets credit for his team falling behind but not for them coming back and making it a one-possession game with the ball in the final 15 seconds?

We could win a national title this year and we'll still hear "Wojo got lucky Markus got hot," "It's not that impressive because we didn't beat a higher seed until the Final Four," or "but how will he win in the future without this senior class?"

The idea that we have no offensive identity when we have the 17th ranked offense in the country & 2nd in the conference is beyond ridiculous. Especially when the last 4 years have been ranked 8/12/32/17. The rest of the Big East coaches must be really effing stupid if they can't stop us with "no discernable offensive system."

Give me a damn break. Do you know how many other coaches have had top-32 offenses each of the past 4 years? Just 6: John Calipari, Bill Self, Mike Krzyzweski, Jay Wright, Chris Mack, & Randy Bennett. Either Wojo is a really good offensive coach or there are about 345 really really terrible offensive coaches out there.

Sure.  All of this may be true at present, though it does also coincide with having the Big East's All-Time leading scorer on our team, along with having elite 3-point shooters in Rowsey and Sam Hauser.  Isn't eFG% considered the most heavily weighted advanced stat predictive of success?

However, this was also part of my past frustration - we've been elite offensively 3 of the last 4 years, but still have zero NCAA wins, one of the elite years ended in the NIT. 

Credit to the staff for getting these elite shooters to MU, yet suspect it won't be sustainable.  Question then becomes:  Without sublime shooting ability, can Wojo scheme a team to be successful enough to win at a high rate.  We should start seeing that question answered these next couple of years. 

[HutchwasClutch]

The offense got us plenty of open looks which we didn’t hit.  Watch the game again.  The coaching staff cannot make shots for players.

Watch how many possessions there was zero ball movement, zero movement away from the ball, and one on one play.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cain has just gotten back to the form he had as a freshman.  Not uncommon in Wojo's tenure for players to regress/lose confidence - Duane Wilson, Cohen, Cheatham, Morrow, to name a few.

Duane Wilson: Repeatedly Injured
Cohen: Recruited Over
Cheatham: Actually improved from year 1 to year 2 before being recruited over
Morrow: Repeatedly Injured