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Author Topic: Fire this coach?  (Read 8671 times)

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #150 on: February 20, 2020, 04:28:46 PM »
If he did win the championship, you'd still be unhappy....
You say that as if he's done anything this point to warrant genuine happiness?  The best thing we have from the Wojo era is a court storm in January and a couple blips in and out of the rankings.

BM1090

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #151 on: February 20, 2020, 04:35:30 PM »
You say that as if he's done anything this point to warrant genuine happiness?  The best thing we have from the Wojo era is a court storm in January and a couple blips in and out of the rankings.

The best thing we have from Wojo are the past two years of a top 30 caliber team. If we're consistently a top 30 team, we're all good. He's hit an acceptable performance level, now he needs to maintain/improve it.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #152 on: February 20, 2020, 04:53:13 PM »
The best thing we have from Wojo are the past two years of a top 30 caliber team. If we're consistently a top 30 team, we're all good. He's hit an acceptable performance level, now he needs to maintain/improve it.
You're the definition of someone that has accepted mediocrity.  Congratulations.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #153 on: February 20, 2020, 04:58:25 PM »
You say that as if he's done anything this point to warrant genuine happiness?  The best thing we have from the Wojo era is a court storm in January and a couple blips in and out of the rankings.

Anyone who ties happiness to the success of a college basketball team needs to reprioritize their life.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Johnny B

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #154 on: February 20, 2020, 04:59:03 PM »
You're the definition of someone that has accepted mediocrity.  Congratulations.
How many programs are consistantly top 30? Guess 98% of teams are mediocre. Keep crying 2 cent pitcher

BM1090

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #155 on: February 20, 2020, 05:03:38 PM »
You're the definition of someone that has accepted mediocrity.  Congratulations.

A program that is a 7 seed or better in the tournament every year is mediocre? Good to know.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #156 on: February 20, 2020, 08:16:26 PM »
A program that is a 7 seed or better in the tournament every year is mediocre? Good to know.
Every year?  Fact check??  Wojo has brought a seed greater than a 7 exactly once.  And that went great!

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #157 on: February 20, 2020, 08:31:08 PM »
Every year?  Fact check??  Wojo has brought a seed greater than a 7 exactly once.  And that went great!

I believe BM1090 was referring to a hypothetical team that finished a 7 seed or higher every year. Your response was to say it was the definition of mediocrity. I think most would assume you were referring to BM1090's hypothetical team.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #158 on: February 20, 2020, 08:34:15 PM »
I believe BM1090 was referring to a hypothetical team that finished a 7 seed or higher every year. Your response was to say it was the definition of mediocrity. I think most would assume you were referring to BM1090's hypothetical team.

The hypothetical case is where we do our best work. 

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #159 on: February 20, 2020, 08:37:22 PM »
I believe BM1090 was referring to a hypothetical team that finished a 7 seed or higher every year. Your response was to say it was the definition of mediocrity. I think most would assume you were referring to BM1090's hypothetical team.
First of all 4*7 is 28, not 30.  So BM is already taking liberties there.  Second of all, we are teetering on the very edge of this "hypothetical" top 30 thing that apparently equivocates success now.  We have done it once in Wojo's 6 year tenure.  Whether we get a greater than 7 seed this year, Wojo's 6th year, is very much in jeopardy.  And if we do, it will be at the bottom of this "top 30" range (i.e. a 6 or 7 seed).

Wojo has built nothing yet.  Won nothing yet.  Done nothing yet.  What can we hang our hats on?  This is close to 2 full recruiting cycles and everyone here is chomping at the bit to give him a 3rd.  Jimmy Butler was a 2 star.  Dwyane Wade was a 2 star.  Jae Crowder - a JUCO unknown.  It's about what you do with what you have.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 08:39:52 PM by 5DollarPitcher »

Retire0

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #160 on: February 20, 2020, 09:17:22 PM »
First of all 4*7 is 28, not 30.  So BM is already taking liberties there.  Second of all, we are teetering on the very edge of this "hypothetical" top 30 thing that apparently equivocates success now.  We have done it once in Wojo's 6 year tenure.  Whether we get a greater than 7 seed this year, Wojo's 6th year, is very much in jeopardy.  And if we do, it will be at the bottom of this "top 30" range (i.e. a 6 or 7 seed).

Wojo has built nothing yet.  Won nothing yet.  Done nothing yet.  What can we hang our hats on?  This is close to 2 full recruiting cycles and everyone here is chomping at the bit to give him a 3rd.  Jimmy Butler was a 2 star.  Dwyane Wade was a 2 star.  Jae Crowder - a JUCO unknown.  It's about what you do with what you have.

Wow.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

Doo

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #161 on: February 20, 2020, 09:44:41 PM »
Buzz could claim it was about second chances all he wanted, but it was about creating a recruiting advantage by going after kids that other programs wouldn't touch. Buzz forced in some kids that threatened NCAA investigations on academic grounds,and if you couple that with the way the sexual assault case was handle you could forgive the university for thinking perhaps Buzz didn't have the universities best interests at heart.

I think this is spot-on.

BM1090

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #162 on: February 20, 2020, 10:04:44 PM »
I believe BM1090 was referring to a hypothetical team that finished a 7 seed or higher every year. Your response was to say it was the definition of mediocrity. I think most would assume you were referring to BM1090's hypothetical team.

Correct. And I'll even amend my statement to say a top 8 seed every year since I said top 30. The first few years of Wojo's tenure mean nothing in evaluating where we are at as a program *today*.

If, starting in 2018-19, we are a top 30 program annually, then that's a successful program. Barring a collapse this year, we will be a top 30 program over the past two years. That's fine. It's good, even.

I just find it odd that people want to hold Wojo's first year or two against him when it doesn't come close to showing what kind of program MU is in the present. You don't fire an employee who has shown solid to good performance for 4 years after deciding to stick with them during their learning curve.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 10:13:45 PM by BM1090 »

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #163 on: February 21, 2020, 12:01:57 AM »
First of all 4*7 is 28, not 30.  So BM is already taking liberties there.  Second of all, we are teetering on the very edge of this "hypothetical" top 30 thing that apparently equivocates success now.  We have done it once in Wojo's 6 year tenure.  Whether we get a greater than 7 seed this year, Wojo's 6th year, is very much in jeopardy.  And if we do, it will be at the bottom of this "top 30" range (i.e. a 6 or 7 seed).

Wojo has built nothing yet.  Won nothing yet.  Done nothing yet.  What can we hang our hats on?  This is close to 2 full recruiting cycles and everyone here is chomping at the bit to give him a 3rd.  Jimmy Butler was a 2 star.  Dwyane Wade was a 2 star.  Jae Crowder - a JUCO unknown.  It's about what you do with what you have.

I guess a top 7 seed is in "jeopardy" in the sense that we would li kely have to lose 4 of our next 5 games (all of which we are favored in) in order to not get a top 7 seed. If that does happen, my scale will quickly tip from sosojo towards nojo. Considering that we are 15-1 in non-Q1A games this season (and none of the remaining games are Q1A), I expect to win more than we lose.

Wojo has built something, it might not be everything we ever wanted, but its a fine first step as long as it is just a first step. As you correctly point out, Wojo is at the end of his second recruiting cycle. The second was a massive improvement on his first. I anticipate his third will continue that trend. The 2020 class on paper is a great start to that goal. If he doesn't get it done, he will be let go.

1 last thing, I'm not sure how you can categorize the JUCO player of the year as "a JUCO unknown." https://gomarquette.com/news/2010/4/14/JC_Player_Of_The_Year_Jae_Crowder_Inks_With_Marquette.aspx
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2020, 12:04:25 AM »
I just find it odd that people want to hold Wojo's first year or two against him when it doesn't come close to showing what kind of program MU is in the present. You don't fire an employee who has shown solid to good performance for 4 years after deciding to stick with them during their learning curve.

I just said the same thing in another thread. Sure it makes sense if you just want to compare Wojo's first five years to another coach's first five years, but I haven't the foggiest how it relates to future coaching decisions.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

The Lens

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #165 on: February 21, 2020, 08:22:57 AM »
Correct. And I'll even amend my statement to say a top 8 seed every year since I said top 30. The first few years of Wojo's tenure mean nothing in evaluating where we are at as a program *today*.

If, starting in 2018-19, we are a top 30 program annually, then that's a successful program. Barring a collapse this year, we will be a top 30 program over the past two years. That's fine. It's good, even.

I just find it odd that people want to hold Wojo's first year or two against him when it doesn't come close to showing what kind of program MU is in the present. You don't fire an employee who has shown solid to good performance for 4 years after deciding to stick with them during their learning curve.

Well he did inherit two NBA players plus another 4 Top 100 players and a transfer from Indiana.  Maybe coach 'em up?  #fullcupboard
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

Galway Eagle

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2020, 09:51:06 AM »
Well he did inherit two NBA players plus another 4 Top 100 players and a transfer from Indiana.  Maybe coach 'em up?  #fullcupboard

Seriously? 2 nba players? It only took Juan 6 years to get there, I'm sure he's the exact same player and it's not more like Buycks who developed after college. And Are you seriously touting top 100 players? Why don't you try fielding a team of Top 100 greats like Ed Morrow, Erik Williams, Matt Heldt, Jamail Jones and tell me all about how great top 100s always are, not to mention when they're injured like Duane and Fischer.

I'm far from the biggest Wojo fan but I hate this notion that top 100 is the be all end all especially when they're injured or underclassmen.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

WolfganghisKhan

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #167 on: February 21, 2020, 10:40:02 AM »
I think we can all acknowledge Wojo is a recruiter first and foremost. His x's & o's leave a lot to be desired.

I'm curious to see how his offense looks next year without Howard. I don't have much faith. Our current offense is not pretty/sustainable to say the least.

The Lens

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #168 on: February 21, 2020, 12:26:54 PM »
Seriously? 2 nba players? It only took Juan 6 years to get there, I'm sure he's the exact same player and it's not more like Buycks who developed after college. And Are you seriously touting top 100 players? Why don't you try fielding a team of Top 100 greats like Ed Morrow, Erik Williams, Matt Heldt, Jamail Jones and tell me all about how great top 100s always are, not to mention when they're injured like Duane and Fischer.

I'm far from the biggest Wojo fan but I hate this notion that top 100 is the be all end all especially when they're injured or underclassmen.

Well every Pro Jo says stick with the guy, he's got 3 Top 100s coming in next year...
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

Galway Eagle

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #169 on: February 21, 2020, 12:32:23 PM »
Well every Pro Jo says stick with the guy, he's got 3 Top 100s coming in next year...

I believe they say that due to the USA basketball pedigree in two of them and the McDonald's all American factor for one. And that it's his choice of top 100s not someone else's.

The last two USA basketball players seemed legit (Ellanson, Howard)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 12:38:43 PM by Galway Eagle »
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Coleman

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #170 on: February 21, 2020, 03:32:18 PM »
I think we can all acknowledge Wojo is a recruiter first and foremost. His x's & o's leave a lot to be desired.

I'm curious to see how his offense looks next year without Howard. I don't have much faith. Our current offense is not pretty/sustainable to say the least.

It would be one thing if that was actually true. Stan Johnson is the big recruiter.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #171 on: February 21, 2020, 03:41:22 PM »
I think we can all acknowledge Wojo is a recruiter first and foremost. His x's & o's leave a lot to be desired.

I'm curious to see how his offense looks next year without Howard. I don't have much faith. Our current offense is not pretty/sustainable to say the least.

Actually I think the offense will be fine next year.  It’s all about the talent coming in.  The offense may be just as good without a ball dominant shooting guard and more of a facilitator at point guard.  This is not a knock on Howard.  Love the kid. It will be different without him. But not worried about offense next year as long as the recruits are as talented as we hope and with potentially more talent coming on board.

brewcity77

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #172 on: February 21, 2020, 07:03:12 PM »
It would be one thing if that was actually true. Stan Johnson is the big recruiter.

How did Stan get here? And while we're at it, how did Dwayne Killings (Symir Torrence, Justin Lewis)? When you bring in top classes, the head coach gets credit because those guys work for him.

willie warrior

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #173 on: February 21, 2020, 07:29:31 PM »
I just said the same thing in another thread. Sure it makes sense if you just want to compare Wojo's first five years to another coach's first five years, but I haven't the foggiest how it relates to future coaching decisions.
Nor do you have the foggiest of what those future coaching decisions might be.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Fire this coach?
« Reply #174 on: February 21, 2020, 08:55:53 PM »
Nor do you have the foggiest of what those future coaching decisions might be.

I'm really not sure what this is referencing. Are you saying I don't know who would be hired if Wojo were to leave or be fired? If so, yes, you are correct. I'm not sure what gave you the impression that I thought I would know.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

 

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