Fire this coach?

[🏀]

No. You don't fire that coach.

Among other reasons not to do it, I don't believe good, established coaches are gonna want to work at a place that fires coaches who are successful in building a program

Well that’s a very mediocre thought process. Were you even alive in ‘77?

[WhiteTrash]

No. You don't fire that coach.

Among other reasons not to do it, I don't believe good, established coaches are gonna want to work at a place that fires coaches who are successful in building a program

Hopefully, Wojo can be that coach.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Other than maybe Cheeks, I don't think anyone has said that Wojo is better Buzz, so I'm not sure who you're arguing with Guru.

He's not arguing, he's distracting.

He and the other NoJos are trying to use obfuscation to cover for the fact that when Marquette was 1-3 they were peeing all over themselves and proclaiming the end times.

Now that the team is 6-4 it's back to the Buzz v Wojo comparisons.

Of course, God forbid anyone else should compare other great coaches records at the same point in their career as Wojo. Then the NoJos become the ultimate hypocrites and chastise others for comparing Wojo to the all time great coaches, even though they compare him to Buzz and other top coaches when it suits them.

Captains Obvious

[muguru]

He's not arguing, he's distracting.

He and the other NoJos are trying to use obfuscation to cover for the fact that when Marquette was 1-3 they were peeing all over themselves and proclaiming the end times.

Now that the team is 6-4 it's back to the Buzz v Wojo comparisons.

Of course, God forbid anyone else should compare other great coaches records at the same point in their career as Wojo. Then the NoJos become the ultimate hypocrites and chastise others for comparing Wojo to the all time great coaches, even though they compare him to Buzz and other top coaches when it suits them.

Captains Obvious

I think I speak for everyone when i say give it a rest, your shtick is old and tired. I have said repeatedly(you obviously can't read), that I don't want him fired. But you obviously also don't understand why it's fair to wonder why Wojo hasn't accomplished what Buzz and Crean did in the same time frame. Maybe he's just not as good?? Wouldn't that be something?? Hard for you to imagine...I know

[#UnleashSean]

I think I speak for everyone when i say give it a rest, your shtick is old and tired. I have said repeatedly(you obviously can't read), that I don't want him fired. But you obviously also don't understand why it's fair to wonder why Wojo hasn't accomplished what Buzz and Crean did in the same time frame. Maybe he's just not as good?? Wouldn't that be something?? Hard for you to imagine...I know

Just join the growing crowd of people muting all of his accounts

[Lennys Tap]

I think I speak for everyone when i say give it a rest, your shtick is old and tired. I have said repeatedly(you obviously can't read), that I don't want him fired. But you obviously also don't understand why it's fair to wonder why Wojo hasn't accomplished what Buzz and Crean did in the same time frame. Maybe he's just not as good?? Wouldn't that be something?? Hard for you to imagine...I know

I don’t know about everyone. Chico might disagree.

[MU82]

Look, I'm not saying he should be fired

If I'm not mistaken, you said you thought he should have been fired after last season. "Better too early than too late" ... or something like that. Unless that wasn't you or I am misremembering it - which is possible. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, and I will absolutely accept correcting if I'm wrong about that.

All I asked in my OP is how many schools would fire a coach with this resume.

I’m not sure there are a whole lot of people
On this board saying he should be fired.

He lost two starters last year...the transfers in aren’t “arguably” (your word) worse...they’re not even in the same category!

people would be comparing him unfavorably to Mike Deane. And rightfully so.

But pearl clutching because of booing (which I agree is a bad look) is lame.

1. I guess it depends on one's definition of "a whole lot of people on this board," because quite a few have come right out and said he should be fired.

2. Fair point. The Hausers and Burton -- the only 3 high-major players to transfer under Wojo (4, if you want to count Duane Wilson, who had lost his job at MU) - are/were better than Rowsey, McEwen, Reinhardt, etc. Of course, unless one thinks Burton was lying, there was nothing Wojo could have done to keep him. But sure, "arguably" was too soft on my part. I'd have taken Sam over any of them, including his whiny little brother.

3. Don't you read this board? Many Nojos have compared Wojo unfavorably to Deane ... and most undeservedly so. In Year 5, Deane went 14-15 overall, went 6-10 in a bad conference, and had proven himself to be a horrible recruiter; in Year 5, Wojo went 24-10, finished second in a good conference, and laid the foundation for signing a top-10 recruiting class. If Wojo had gone 14-15 last season and run the recruiting into the ground, I would have been near the front of the line calling for him to be fired. Don't make up stuff just to fit your narrative.

4. Glad you agree the booing is a bad look. It's stupid, immature, without basis and counterproductive.

Delete paragraph #1, replace it with:

Coach takes over program that has made the NCAA tournament 8 of the last 9 and made the S16 twice and the Elite 8 once in the last four years.

More than one way to look at it.

Reasonable, Lenny.

Of course, you being reasonable, you also know that era of the Marquette basketball program ended when Buzz left, his leftovers were mediocre and his top recruits followed him out the door. BTW, I loved the Buzz Era every bit as much as you did, and was proud to call him our coach.

I say Buzz is the better coach, like I have always said.

Yep. Not a single Scooper with even an iota of basketball knowledge has ever suggested Wojo was as good a coach as Buzz. I hope he gets to that level. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

But that has nothing to do with the OP. There probably are a few bluebloods who would fire the coach whose resume I presented. Few, if any, non-bluebloods would.

[Cheeks]

Other than maybe Cheeks, I don't think anyone has said that Wojo is better Buzz, so I'm not sure who you're arguing with Guru.

Glad you said maybe, because I never said Wojo was a better coach than Buzz.

I am glad we have Wojo....2 different things. 

Wojo is coaching with parameters set for him by administration.  Buzz chose to take a year off rather than coach with those parameters and left.  I will take the guy that didn’t quit.

[Not A Serious Person]

Buzz, left ... MU did not try to get him to stay, but if they did, it probably would not have stopped him from leaving.

So, who did you wish MU chose instead, that have proven themselves to be a better pick than Wojo?  Shaka, Ben Howland?  (and don't say Porter Moser as exactly no one brought him up during the search, and his name never came up for years after, until they made the FF.)

Bruce Pearl?  Did you really want him, and all the baggage that comes with him?

(to be clear, my point is not only am I happy with Wojo, but I also don't see anyone that MU passed on that makes one think they "missed" by hiring Wojo.)

[muguru]

Glad you said maybe, because I never said Wojo was a better coach than Buzz.

I am glad we have Wojo....2 different things. 

Wojo is coaching with parameters set for him by administration. Buzz chose to take a year off rather than coach with those parameters and left.  I will take the guy that didn’t quit.

So what you're saying is, if your employer suddenly "changes the rules" and gives you parameters to work under that suddenly make things more difficult for you to perform your job at the highest level you feel you possibly can, that you shouldn't look for a new job?? Not sure that's good advice to be giving anyone. Just my opinion. I was at a job for 21 years and out of the blue the rules changed, and I became handcuffed and uncomfortable to the point I felt I couldn't do my job to the best of my abilities like I had before. I quit that job and went somewhere else.

[JakeBarnes]

So what you're saying is, if your employer suddenly "changes the rules" and gives you parameters to work under that suddenly make things more difficult for you to perform your job at the highest level you feel you possibly can, that you shouldn't look for a new job?? Not sure that's good advice to be giving anyone. Just my opinion. I was at a job for 21 years and out of the blue the rules changed, and I became handcuffed and uncomfortable to the point I felt I couldn't do my job to the best of my abilities like I had before. I quit that job and went somewhere else.

One of the rules that changed was not accepting kids that were expelled from HS for intentionally setting a girl's hair on fire. I feel like that's a pretty common sense one though

[muguru]

Buzz, left ... MU did not try to get him to stay, but if they did, it probably would not have stopped him from leaving.

So, who did you wish MU chose instead, that have proven themselves to be a better pick than Wojo?  Shaka, Ben Howland?  (and don't say Porter Moser as exactly no one brought him up during the search, and his name never came up for years after, until they made the FF.)

Bruce Pearl?  Did you really want him, and all the baggage that comes with him?

(to be clear, my point is not only am I happy with Wojo, but I also don't see anyone that MU passed on that makes one think they "missed" by hiring Wojo.)

This is hard to quantify without knowing if MU reached out to anyone else that wasn't mentioned, and if they did, and wanted that person badly enough, did they offer them whatever it would have taken to get that person?? Of the people you list, I was all in on Shaka. It's completely unfair however to say just because he hasn't gotten it done at Texas, he wouldn't have gotten it done at MU. We just don't know how it would have worked out.

I mean I thought that whole "search" was kind of weird actually..obviously we don't know for sure, but did MU try to hit a home run at all?? Usually with Coaching searches, schools always contact a "grand slam" to see if they might be interested..You see it all the time with schools hiring other Coaches away and AD's making sure they "get their guy"(yes I know Shaka, but did they try for bigger??). I'm not sure MU did that. They seem to have this thing for hiring assistants.

[Cheeks]

I don’t know about everyone. Chico might disagree.

Yeah, I would not be part of that everyone and neither would a number of other people here.

Guru’s logic is funny.  He complains about people not listening to him or reading, but isn’t he doing the same?

Why hasn’t Wojo accomplished the same as Crean or Buzz?  Have we not gone through this countless times.  Would Wojo be allowed to recruit a Dwade?  We know he wasn’t allowed to add the number of guys Buzz did.  As a result, aren’t we comparing different scenarios?  If you have two good painters, but one of them is only allowed to use half a brush vs the other can use a full brush...are they in the same situation?

[muguru]

One of the rules that changed was not accepting kids that were expelled from HS for intentionally setting a girl's hair on fire. I feel like that's a pretty common sense one though

So no one deserves a second chance?? I mean just because they did something stupid, doesn't mean it's going to follow them to wherever they go next, right?? I kind of understand it, but it's also pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

[Cheeks]

So what you're saying is, if your employer suddenly "changes the rules" and gives you parameters to work under that suddenly make things more difficult for you to perform your job at the highest level you feel you possibly can, that you shouldn't look for a new job?? Not sure that's good advice to be giving anyone. Just my opinion. I was at a job for 21 years and out of the blue the rules changed, and I became handcuffed and uncomfortable to the point I felt I couldn't do my job to the best of my abilities like I had before. I quit that job and went somewhere else.

So you admit the rules have changed and yet, you demand the same results from Wojo that Crean and Buzz got under different rules.

Do you hear yourself sometimes?


Incidentally, I quit a job in professional sports when they changed the rules on me...so yes, I get it.  The guy that replaced me was hired under a different set of rules...he then quit about 6 months later and they reverted back to the original rules.  I get it.  Wojo hasn’t quit and is doing quite well under rules that Buzz left because of....and yet despite these rules which make Wojo’s life harder as a coach...you expect same results.   Tell me what I am missing.

[muguru]

Yeah, I would not be part of that everyone and neither would a number of other people here.

Guru’s logic is funny.  He complains about people not listening to him or reading, but isn’t he doing the same?

Why hasn’t Wojo accomplished the same as Crean or Buzz?  Have we not gone through this countless times.  Would Wojo be allowed to recruit a Dwade?  We know he wasn’t allowed to add the number of guys Buzz did.  As a result, aren’t we comparing different scenarios?  If you have two good painters, but one of them is only allowed to use half a brush vs the other can use a full brush...are they in the same situation?

I mean sure..it's reasonable, but that says more about the current admin's expectations then anything else if you ask me. NOT saying "win at all costs", but denying kids admission that weren't denied previously seems narrow minded, doesn't it?? Shouldn't it be about helping them, and giving them a chance??

[JakeBarnes]

So no one deserves a second chance?? I mean just because they did something stupid, doesn't mean it's going to follow them to wherever they go next, right?? I kind of understand it, but it's also pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

But it did.  And that player was also told to leave K state.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Buzz, left ... MU did not try to get him to stay, but if they did, it probably would not have stopped him from leaving.

So, who did you wish MU chose instead, that have proven themselves to be a better pick than Wojo?  Shaka, Ben Howland?  (and don't say Porter Moser as exactly no one brought him up during the search, and his name never came up for years after, until they made the FF.)

Bruce Pearl?  Did you really want him, and all the baggage that comes with him?

(to be clear, my point is not only am I happy with Wojo, but I also don't see anyone that MU passed on that makes one think they "missed" by hiring Wojo.)

This^ and That^

[RushmoreAcademy]

Sigh. No. And no one whose opinion matters is talking about Wojo going anywhere. Only people saying this are on message boards and some students.

His seat is as cool as Milwaukee winter.

Go Marquette.

This.
He’s not being fired.  It’s seems like people think if they sway Pro-jos over to their side, he will be gone, like it’s an episode of survivor.  He is 100% coming back.

[tower912]

Unless someone else hires him.    Other schools may see the virtues that some of the fan base are missing

[warriorchick]

No. You don't fire that coach.

Among other reasons not to do it, I don't believe good, established coaches are gonna want to work at a place that fires coaches who are successful in building a program

This.

When was the last time a major program fired a coach who has performed as good as or better than Wojo?

I am not asking rhetorically; if anyone knows, I would like to hear it.

[tower912]

This.

When was the last time a major program fired a coach who has performed as good as or better than Wojo's?

I am not asking rhetorically; if anyone knows, I would like to hear it.

Amen.

[MU82]

This.

When was the last time a major program fired a coach who has performed as good as or better than Wojo's?

I am not asking rhetorically; if anyone knows, I would like to hear it.

Exactly, chickadee. It was the point of my OP.

Steve Lavin made 4 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 in his first 6 years at UCLA and always seemed to be on the verge of being fired for failing to contend for conference titles. When he finally did have that one losing season in Year 7, he was canned. Nowhere near an identical comparison - he actually outperformed Wojo for most of his time; he didn't just lose in Year 7, he crashed and burned by going 10-19 and I believe there were off-court issues too; and of course he was at a school that definitely considered itself a blueblood. Lavin's time at St. John's maybe was more kinda sorta similar to Wojo's at MU - he and the school did the ol' "parted ways" after a first-round NCAA loss ended Year 5.

If the Great Shaka Smart gets fired after this season at Texas, it actually would be pretty close; but that's a big "if."

Bruce Weber at Illinois? He accomplished more early with Self's recruits (Deron Williams, Dee Brown, James Augustine, Luther Head, Roger Powell, Jack Ingram - "slightly" better than what Buzz left Wojo!) but sputtered badly before he was fired. Not very similar at all, actually.

There might be other examples that better demonstrate a school firing a coach with Wojo's resume. I'd welcome an example or 3.

[DoctorV]

I’ve kept things very close to the vest on my Projo versus Nojo, Allbuzz versus Buzzcut, hold the Crean versus I Creaned my pants status.

After not reading all of these coaching threads I’m finally ready to take a stance.

Tom Crean was awesome when he won games. Buzz Williams was awesome when he won games. Steve Wojciechowski is awesome when he wins games.

This is my stance and I’m sticking to it. Don’t anyone dare try to sway me one way or the other.

[mu03eng]

I mean sure..it's reasonable, but that says more about the current admin's expectations then anything else if you ask me. NOT saying "win at all costs", but denying kids admission that weren't denied previously seems narrow minded, doesn't it?? Shouldn't it be about helping them, and giving them a chance??

Buzz could claim it was about second chances all he wanted, but it was about creating a recruiting advantage by going after kids that other programs wouldn't touch. Buzz forced in some kids that threatened NCAA investigations on academic grounds,and if you couple that with the way the sexual assault case was handle you could forgive the university for thinking perhaps Buzz didn't have the universities best interests at heart.