Fire this coach?

[MU82]

Coach takes over program that didn't go to NCAA or NIT previous year.

++ First season: 13-19.

++ Second season: 20-13, no postseason.

++ Third season: 19-13; NCAA 10th seed, first-round loss.

++ Fourth season: 21-14; NIT, third-round loss.

++ Fifth season: 24-10; conference runner-up after leading race but falling apart late due to intra-team squabbling; NCAA 5th seed, first-round loss.

++ Sixth season: 16-6 about 2/3 of the way through season; NCAA bid likely.

++ Top-10 recruiting class signed for his 7th season.

++ Numerous transfers out, including 3 high-major caliber players.

++ Several good transfers in, though arguably none the caliber of the 3 top players who transferred out.

++ Under his watch, team never has had a hint of NCAA rules violations or scrapes with the law.

Questions:

Realistically, would any school fire that coach?

If so, would it be a blueblood?

Would the AD/president/board of any non-blueblood school fire that coach?

I'll hang up and listen.

[Avenue Commons]

Sigh. No. And no one whose opinion matters is talking about Wojo going anywhere. Only people saying this are on message boards and some students.

His seat is as cool as Milwaukee winter.

Go Marquette.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I’m not sure there are a whole lot of people
On this board saying he should be fired. Over his head? Sure. Not exactly the workaholic his two Predecessors appeared to be? Yes. But he is what he is. And I’m not sure there’s anybody on this board who’s ever said they don’t like the guy.

There are too many people on this board who go out of their way to suggest anybody questioning Wojo’s coaching chops are anti
marquette and want the coach axed. That sentiment doesn’t really exist on the board. It’s nonsense. People observe what they observe and comment on it. He lost two starters last year...the transfers in aren’t “arguably” (your word) worse...they’re not even in the same category! Another contributor walked off the team this year. There was a lot of talk about Sacar and a couple others following the Hausers out the door. They didn’t stay because Sam and Joey left...they had to be convinced to stay. To dismiss this is asinine.

Although I haven’t read too many people demanding his ouster, if he werent such a nice guy and a bit of a media creation, people would be comparing him unfavorably to Mike Deane. And rightfully so.

But pearl clutching because of booing (which I agree is a bad look) is lame. Wojo makes a couple million dollars a year! F’n deal with it!!

[WhoaJoe2020]

Two things......

1. Blaming the late season collapse on intra-team squabbling is too simplistic.
Sam and Markus being injured, and Joey hitting the freshman wall were far more important factors IMHO.

2. No one knows how good Sam will be following his hip surgery, and Joey has a lot to prove before the impact of his loss can be quantified. I still believe that the Hausers leaving and Markus staying was the best outcome for everyone involved. Including the Marquette basketball program and ultimately its fan base.

Fire the coach???

For what???

[BallBoy]

I’m not sure there are a whole lot of people
On this board saying he should be fired. Over his head? Sure. Not exactly the workaholic his two Predecessors appeared to be? Yes. But he is what he is. And I’m not sure there’s anybody on this board who’s ever said they don’t like the guy.

There are too many people on this board who go out of their way to suggest anybody questioning Wojo’s coaching chops are anti
marquette and want the coach axed. That sentiment doesn’t really exist on the board. It’s nonsense. People observe what they observe and comment on it. He lost two starters last year...the transfers in aren’t “arguably” (your word) worse...they’re not even in the same category! Another contributor walked off the team this year. There was a lot of talk about Sacar and a couple others following the Hausers out the door. They didn’t stay because Sam and Joey left...they had to be convinced to stay. To dismiss this is asinine.

Although I haven’t read too many people demanding his ouster, if he werent such a nice guy and a bit of a media creation, people would be comparing him unfavorably to Mike Deane. And rightfully so.

But pearl clutching because of booing (which I agree is a bad look) is lame. Wojo makes a couple million dollars a year! F’n deal with it!!

It’s not Wojo we are worried about or any guy making $2M/yr. it’s the kid who wants to make $2M+/yr who is wondering which coach is going to get him there and one coach’s idiot fans are booing him. That is what people don’t seem to get.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’m not sure there are a whole lot of people
On this board saying he should be fired. Over his head? Sure. Not exactly the workaholic his two Predecessors appeared to be? Yes. But he is what he is. And I’m not sure there’s anybody on this board who’s ever said they don’t like the guy.

There are too many people on this board who go out of their way to suggest anybody questioning Wojo’s coaching chops are anti
marquette and want the coach axed. That sentiment doesn’t really exist on the board. It’s nonsense. People observe what they observe and comment on it. He lost two starters last year...the transfers in aren’t “arguably” (your word) worse...they’re not even in the same category! Another contributor walked off the team this year. There was a lot of talk about Sacar and a couple others following the Hausers out the door. They didn’t stay because Sam and Joey left...they had to be convinced to stay. To dismiss this is asinine.

Although I haven’t read too many people demanding his ouster, if he werent such a nice guy and a bit of a media creation, people would be comparing him unfavorably to Mike Deane. And rightfully so.

But pearl clutching because of booing (which I agree is a bad look) is lame. Wojo makes a couple million dollars a year! F’n deal with it!!

I’ve never heard the idea that Wojo doesn’t work hard. From anyone. Where does that come from?

[muguru]

Coach takes over program that didn't go to NCAA or NIT previous year.

++ First season: 13-19.

++ Second season: 20-13, no postseason.

++ Third season: 19-13; NCAA 10th seed, first-round loss.

++ Fourth season: 21-14; NIT, third-round loss.

++ Fifth season: 24-10; conference runner-up after leading race but falling apart late due to intra-team squabbling; NCAA 5th seed, first-round loss.

++ Sixth season: 16-6 about 2/3 of the way through season; NCAA bid likely.

++ Top-10 recruiting class signed for his 7th season.

++ Numerous transfers out, including 3 high-major caliber players.

++ Several good transfers in, though arguably none the caliber of the 3 top players who transferred out.

++ Under his watch, team never has had a hint of NCAA rules violations or scrapes with the law.

Questions:

Realistically, would any school fire that coach?

If so, would it be a blueblood?

Would the AD/president/board of any non-blueblood school fire that coach?

I'll hang up and listen.

You can't ask this without additional information...such as:

What is the history/tradition of the school, and maybe more appropriately what was accomplished at the same school with previous coaches in the same time frame??

What are the fans expectations and are those reasonable??

What are the expectations of the administration that makes the decision??

What kind of priority in term's of expenditure's do you put into the program, and are you getting reasonable return on that investment??

Have you won in the postseason??

Have your conference records largely been built on beating teams you are supposed to beat, and then failing to beat the better teams consistently??

Lots of variables, and need all the appropriate info.

[#UnleashSean]

I guess we should hang some banners.

[lurch91]

Not exactly the workaholic his two Predecessors appeared to be? Yes.

I don't get this criticism. The two coaches before Wojo were shameless self promoters that put themselves over the program.  Wojo seems to be putting into he work by the recruits he's been a finalist on, but just because he's not asking media buddies to report it for him doesn't mean he doesn't put in the work.

[Lennys Tap]

Coach takes over program that didn't go to NCAA or NIT previous year.

++ First season: 13-19.

++ Second season: 20-13, no postseason.

++ Third season: 19-13; NCAA 10th seed, first-round loss.

++ Fourth season: 21-14; NIT, third-round loss.

++ Fifth season: 24-10; conference runner-up after leading race but falling apart late due to intra-team squabbling; NCAA 5th seed, first-round loss.

++ Sixth season: 16-6 about 2/3 of the way through season; NCAA bid likely.

++ Top-10 recruiting class signed for his 7th season.

++ Numerous transfers out, including 3 high-major caliber players.

++ Several good transfers in, though arguably none the caliber of the 3 top players who transferred out.

++ Under his watch, team never has had a hint of NCAA rules violations or scrapes with the law.

Questions:

Realistically, would any school fire that coach?

If so, would it be a blueblood?

Would the AD/president/board of any non-blueblood school fire that coach?

I'll hang up and listen.

Delete paragraph #1, replace it with:

Coach takes over program that has made the NCAA tournament 8 of the last 9 and made the S16 twice and the Elite 8 once in the last four years.

More than one way to look at it.

[tower912]

Both are true.

[muguru]

Delete paragraph #1, replace it with:

Coach takes over program that has made the NCAA tournament 8 of the last 9 and made the S16 twice and the Elite 8 once in the last four years.

+1000, people seem to conveniently forget that when discussing this and only focus on the last year of that run and where Wojo took over. It's like the NCAA results previous to that one year(that was an outlier of the 9 year run) and the final year of the previous 4(Sweet 16X2 and Elite 8 once) are somehow irrelevant and can't be factored in as to expectations for Wojo. It's weird how those years are conveniently disregarded.

[Pakuni]

So many new points being made here and not ar all a rehash of the last 18 months.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

+1000, people seem to conveniently forget that when discussing this and only focus on the last year of that run and where Wojo took over. It's like the NCAA results previous to that one year(that was an outlier of the 9 year run) and the final year of the previous 4(Sweet 16X2 and Elite 8 once) are somehow irrelevant and can't be factored in as to expectations for Wojo. It's weird how those years are conveniently disregarded.

I wasn't aware Wojo had Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, and Jimmy Butler on his first roster.

It's not relevant to the conversation because what matters is the players that Wojo inherited. A completely different group of players going to the elite eight two years earlier doesn't make Jajuan Johnson a better player.

[BallBoy]

+1000, people seem to conveniently forget that when discussing this and only focus on the last year of that run and where Wojo took over. It's like the NCAA results previous to that one year(that was an outlier of the 9 year run) and the final year of the previous 4(Sweet 16X2 and Elite 8 once) are somehow irrelevant and can't be factored in as to expectations for Wojo. It's weird how those years are conveniently disregarded.

What changed? 

That nine year run started with the entry into the Big East during its prime. Had MU entered the Big East and not been good that nine year run wouldn’t have happened. It ended when the Big East broke a part. At the time the new Big East was seen as mid major by most talking heads and recruits were questioning whether it would remain near the top. Had Nova not won it twice it probably would be.  Look how many prominent coaches left. MU walked into the new league and sucked. Our coach just left.

If you look back and take emotions out, Wojo’s first team wasn’t good. Not much he could do with it as High school recruits were signed prior to him being announced.  That team was more of a sign of Buzz’s team then Wojo’s. Had Buzz stayed we would have had Shayok and Hill so our year might have been better but he didn’t stay so again team was more of a reflection of Buzz. Year 2 we got slightly better but still filling gaps.

Based on what was there, I consider Wojo’s first year year 3 and he will likely be three for four in that stretch.  Just like I don’t consider Buzz’s first year at VT his first year because he inherited junk but he took our recruits which made his year two slightly better.

[muguru]

I wasn't aware Wojo had Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, and Jimmy Butler on his first roster.

It's not relevant to the conversation because what matters is the players that Wojo inherited. A completely different group of players going to the elite eight two years earlier doesn't make Jajuan Johnson a better player.

LOL And who recruited, Jimmy, Vander and Jae?? Buzz did...yes, buzz inherited the amigos, but there were there for ONE year. After that, everyone was essentially Buzz's own guys(at least main players). So now let's compare apples to apples shall we?? When Buzz had his own guys, how did he do?? Wojo has had all his own guys for a few years now...are the results comparable?? You know the answer to that...and this is where you will remain silent, because it's game over...It's a straight up even comparison..man y mano, buzz's own guys vs Wojo's own guys...and keep in mind, Buzz had his success in the greatest conference ever assembled.

What say you now?? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

LOL And who recruited, Jimmy, Vander and Jae?? Buzz did...yes, buzz inherited the amigos, but there were there for ONE year. After that, everyone was essentially Buzz's own guys(at least main players). So now let's compare apples to apples shall we?? When Buzz had his own guys, how did he do?? Wojo has had all his own guys for a few years now...are the results comparable?? You know the answer to that...and this is where you will remain silent, because it's game over...It's a straight up even comparison..man y mano, buzz's own guys vs Wojo's own guys...and keep in mind, Buzz had his success in the greatest conference ever assembled.

What say you now?? 

I say Buzz is the better coach, like I have always said.

I also say that Buzz wasn't fired,  so Wojo doesn't need to be at that level to avoid being fired.

[muguru]

What changed? 

That nine year run started with the entry into the Big East during its prime. Had MU entered the Big East and not been good that nine year run wouldn’t have happened. It ended when the Big East broke a part. At the time the new Big East was seen as mid major by most talking heads and recruits were questioning whether it would remain near the top. Had Nova not won it twice it probably would be.  Look how many prominent coaches left. MU walked into the new league and sucked. Our coach just left.

If you look back and take emotions out, Wojo’s first team wasn’t good. Not much he could do with it as High school recruits were signed prior to him being announced.  That team was more of a sign of Buzz’s team then Wojo’s. Had Buzz stayed we would have had Shayok and Hill so our year might have been better but he didn’t stay so again team was more of a reflection of Buzz. Year 2 we got slightly better but still filling gaps.

Based on what was there, I consider Wojo’s first year year 3 and he will likely be three for four in that stretch.  Just like I don’t consider Buzz’s first year at VT his first year because he inherited junk but he took our recruits which made his year two slightly better.

But again, if you read my post below to TAMU, what did Buzz do in the greatest conference ever assembled, with his own guys(after what he inherited left), vs what Wojo has accomplished with his own guys, in a very good, but no one argues not nearly as good as the old BE conference?? That's actually when Buzz did his best work, right when he had his own guys??

Look, I'm not saying he should be fired, I like his recruiting class coming in. But at some point, the VERY projoers need to stop using that first year as a crutch. That is long past and over with. It's been Wojo's own guys for awhile now. I think it's a fair argument to make why with his own guys, he hasn't had as much success in a lessor conference, then Buzz did with his own guys in the best conference ever assembled?? Isn't it??

[🏀]

LOL And who recruited, Jimmy, Vander and Jae?? Buzz did...yes, buzz inherited the amigos, but there were there for ONE year. After that, everyone was essentially Buzz's own guys(at least main players). So now let's compare apples to apples shall we?? When Buzz had his own guys, how did he do?? Wojo has had all his own guys for a few years now...are the results comparable?? You know the answer to that...and this is where you will remain silent, because it's game over...It's a straight up even comparison..man y mano, buzz's own guys vs Wojo's own guys...and keep in mind, Buzz had his success in the greatest conference ever assembled.

What say you now?? 

🤪

[muguru]

I say Buzz is the better coach, like I have always said.

I also say that Buzz wasn't fired,  so Wojo doesn't need to be at that level to avoid being fired.

You can say Buzz was run off though. But regardless TAMU, my argument isn't so much that Wojo needs to be at that level to avoid being fired, my question is more along the lines of, why can't we expect the same results, or awfully close?? Why hasn't he gotten to that level?? After 5 years, Buzz and TC both had conference championships and deep post season success. Why can't/shouldn't that have been the expectation after the same time frame for Wojo?? I think that's fair.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Other than maybe Cheeks, I don't think anyone has said that Wojo is better Buzz, so I'm not sure who you're arguing with Guru.

[🏀]

Other than maybe Cheeks, I don't think anyone has said that Wojo is better Buzz, so I'm not sure who you're arguing with Guru.

The sky. He’s arguing with the sky.

Occasionally his dog.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You can say Buzz was run off though. But regardless TAMU, my argument isn't so much that Wojo needs to be at that level to avoid being fired, my question is more along the lines of, why can't we expect the same results, or awfully close?? Why hasn't he gotten to that level?? After 5 years, Buzz and TC both had conference championships and deep post season success. Why can't/shouldn't that have been the expectation after the same time frame for Wojo?? I think that's fair.

I guess it depends on what your definition of expectations is. For me if you don't meet expectations you are fired. You seem to have a different definition.

[muguru]

I guess it depends on what your definition of expectations is. For me if you don't meet expectations you are fired. You seem to have a different definition.

Well in reality, Wojo only needs to meet the admin's expectations, since they are the one's that make the decision. Fan's expectations don't mean much in that regard. Obviously he has met the admin's expectations. I just don't like getting told that as a fan, holding Wojo to the same expectations as what Crean and Buzz achieved in the same time frame is unfair. I think it's 100% fair.

Now the question can also be asked, are the admin's expectations to low in comparison to fans expectations?? I do feel like this current admin has lower expectations than the Wild/Cords/Cottingham regime had.

[jesmu84]

No. You don't fire that coach.

Among other reasons not to do it, I don't believe good, established coaches are gonna want to work at a place that fires coaches who are successful in building a program