COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[shoothoops]

116 new COVID-19 positive cases at the hospital in Springfield, MO. All 47 ventilators are spoken for, so they are getting more from affiliated hospitals in Arkansas and St. Louis.

Almost exactly a year ago, Missouri Governor Mike Parson July 2020 spoke at a Cattlemen's association meeting. Most of the attendees, including Parson, were not wearing masks. (Parson and his wife later contracted COVID-19) At the July 2020 meeting, Parson said,

"These kids have to get back to school...and if they do get COVID-19, which they will, they're not going to the hospitals."

The vaccine has been widely available for several months. There are plenty of vaccines available, but ventilators are in short supply.

[JWags85]

116 new COVID-19 positive cases at the hospital in Springfield, MO. All 47 ventilators are spoken for, so they are getting more from affiliated hospitals in Arkansas and St. Louis.

Almost exactly a year ago, Missouri Governor Mike Parson July 2020 spoke at a Cattlemen's association meeting. Most of the attendees, including Parson, were not wearing masks. (Parson and his wife later contracted COVID-19) At the July 2020 meeting, Parson said,

"These kids have to get back to school...and if they do get COVID-19, which they will, they're not going to the hospitals."

The vaccine has been widely available for several months. There are plenty of vaccines available, but ventilators are in short supply.

Im struggling to see what this quote has to do with the above situation unless the implication is kids caused the spread or you're attributing this outbreak to the governor and thus want to illuminate it with a quote you found dumb a year ago.

At this point, if you're hospitalized from COVID, it's your fault plain and simple. Not kids in school, not the governor of your state and their policies from 2020, or any other official.  It's opting out of a widely distributed and available vaccine that could avoid this, or, if you're indeed one of the minute few who can't get the vaccine for whatever reason, not taking proper measures otherwise

[shoothoops]

Im struggling to see what this quote has to do with the above situation unless the implication is kids caused the spread or you're attributing this outbreak to the governor and thus want to illuminate it with a quote you found dumb a year ago.

At this point, if you're hospitalized from COVID, it's your fault plain and simple. Not kids in school, not the governor of your state and their policies from 2020, or any other official.  It's opting out of a widely distributed and available vaccine that could avoid this, or, if you're indeed one of the minute few who can't get the vaccine for whatever reason, not taking proper measures otherwise

This is the COVID-19 thread. If you don't like the COVID-19 thread or if you are uninterested in the Pandemic that we still have, troll and be disingenuous elsewhere. The Governor and everyone else that made a science and health issue an political issue with their words and policies, often for personal power, are most certainly in part responsible. Saying anything otherwise is trolling and disingenuous. But you knew that already.

[The Sultan]

This is the COVID-19 thread. If you don't like the COVID-19 thread or if you are uninterested in the Pandemic that we still have, troll and be disingenuous elsewhere.

Sorry no.  He's not being a troll.  He is rightfully asking what bringing up a quote from a year ago has to do with the situation at hand now.  Kids going back to school isn't the issue.  Lack of vaccinations is.

Now you COULD say that laws banning vaccine passports, like the one he just signed, is part of the issue that downplays the need for vaccines.

[shoothoops]

Sorry no.  He's not being a troll.  He is rightfully asking what bringing up a quote from a year ago has to do with the situation at hand now.  Kids going back to school isn't the issue.  Lack of vaccinations is.

Now you COULD say that laws banning vaccine passports, like the one he just signed, is part of the issue that downplays the need for vaccines.

He already knew these things. He's either entirely uninformed before posting on the topic, or very disingenuous. I'll let you choose.

To say that this Governor or (insert other example here) are not in part responsible isn't being genuine about the topic. Signing these laws, no mask mandates, throwing parties during the pandemic. These have been documented not only elsewhere but here as well.

[The Sultan]

He already knew these things. He's either entirely uninformed before posting on the topic, or very disingenuous. I'll let you choose.

To say that this Governor or (insert other example here) are not in part responsible isn't being genuine about the topic. Signing these laws, no mask mandates, throwing parties during the pandemic. These have been documented not only elsewhere but here as well.

Wags called you out for something.  You responded not by any sort of counterpoint, but by calling him a troll.  That is a dismissive comment that is inherently weak. 

[shoothoops]

Wags called you out for something.  You responded not by any sort of counterpoint, but by calling him a troll.  That is a dismissive comment that is inherently weak.

He said the lack of vaccinations had nothing to do with the governor. That is trolling and being disingenuous.

[The Sultan]

He said the lack of vaccinations had nothing to do with the governor. That is trolling and being disingenuous.

No.  It's an opinion.  Are you really that insecure that when people express opinions different than yours that you dismiss them by labelling them a "troll" versus actually making an intelligent counterpoint?

[shoothoops]

No.  It's an opinion.  Are you really that insecure that when people express opinions different than yours that you dismiss them by labelling them a "troll" versus actually making an intelligent counterpoint?

It's not an intelligent counterpoint to say that this specific governor has nothing to do with lack of vaccinations in his state based on this governor's history, no.

That isn't the same as having a disagreement of opinion. 

[The Sultan]

It's not an intelligent counterpoint to say that this specific governor has nothing to do with lack of vaccinations in his state based on this governor's history, no. 

Cool.  Then say that.  Provide examples.

Dismissing him as a troll does none of those things.

[shoothoops]

Cool.  Then say that.  Provide examples.

Dismissing him as a troll does none of those things.

I have already said it multiple times in the posts above you. I have also provided several examples of this same person previously in this thread.

[JWags85]

My statement had nothing to do with trolling or being disingenuous.  It wasn't even a defense of Mike Parson.  It was solely about the quote and genuinely not getting what it had to do with the here and now.  Without even looking, I'm sure, given Parson's history and track record, he has said or done things to inhibit ideological acceptance of vaccines within his base or causing people to not take COVID seriously in general in the year since that quote about kids and schools.

Like I said, if the purpose of the quote was to illuminate reckless or poor governance by Parson, it just seemed odd cause there is ample evidence otherwise.

Is it my personal belief that by this point I blame individuals more than politicians for vaccination hesitancy or avoidance?  Absolutely.  But I also tend to downplay the direct influence of most elected officials on people's day to day behavior.

I'm far from a troll and regularly engage in honest and thoughtful discussion around COVID on this board with various people, often those I dont fully agree with.  Repeatedly calling me disingenuous and labeling my opinions or thoughts as "not intelligent" cause I don't line up perfectly ideologically with you is just garbage.

[shoothoops]

My statement had nothing to do with trolling or being disingenuous.  It wasn't even a defense of Mike Parson.  It was solely about the quote and genuinely not getting what it had to do with the here and now.  Without even looking, I'm sure, given Parson's history and track record, he has said or done things to inhibit ideological acceptance of vaccines within his base or causing people to not take COVID seriously in general in the year since that quote about kids and schools.

Like I said, if the purpose of the quote was to illuminate reckless or poor governance by Parson, it just seemed odd cause there is ample evidence otherwise.

Is it my personal belief that by this point I blame individuals more than politicians for vaccination hesitancy or avoidance?  Absolutely.  But I also tend to downplay the direct influence of most elected officials on people's day to day behavior.

I'm far from a troll and regularly engage in honest and thoughtful discussion around COVID on this board with various people, often those I dont fully agree with.  Repeatedly calling me disingenuous and labeling my opinions or thoughts as "not intelligent" cause I don't line up perfectly ideologically with you is just garbage.

Downplaying the direct influence of elected officials on some people's day to day behavior either isn't being genuine, or, it's an inability to see much of the world outside of your limited purview.

[JWags85]

Downplaying the direct influence of elected officials on some people's day to day behavior either isn't being genuine, or, it's an inability to see much of the world outside of your limited purview.

Never change man. 

[Jockey]

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.


Lastly, I think Dr. Fluffy should be one of the last people here calling out others for name-calling.

[shoothoops]

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.


Lastly, I think Dr. Fluffy should be one of the last people here calling out others for name-calling.

The point I made is that there is a segment of the population whose decisions on some of these topics are heavily influenced by some public and political figures. Saying that segment of the population does not exist is not factually correct. It isn't an opinion. They exist. They are real people.

Saying those public and political officials are not in part responsible for the results of these decisions is not being genuine. Of course they are. It's not okay to intentionally manipulate some people to jeopardize their own safety and the safety of others.

[The Sultan]

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.


Lastly, I think Dr. Fluffy should be one of the last people here calling out others for name-calling.

I didn't call him out for "name calling."  Reading comprehension would help you here.

[MU82]

Sad but eye-opening Washington Post piece about how some nurses have been scarred by COVID-19 -- not just by dealing with infected patients, but also by the disinformation campaigns they faced in their own communities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/07/06/appalachian-covid-deniers-nurses-virginia/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F341699e%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F72%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c

A few paragraphs from the article:

They were enduring the traumas known to ICU workers across the world: days filled with death, nights ruined by dreams in which they found themselves at infected patients' bedsides without masks. But they were also enduring a trauma that many doctors and nurses elsewhere were not: the suspicion and derision of those they risked their lives to protect.

Conspiracy theories about the pandemic and lies recited on social media — or at White House news conferences — had penetrated deep into their community. When refrigerated trailers were brought in to relieve local hospitals' overflowing morgues, people said they were stage props. Agitated and unmasked relatives stood outside the ICU insisting that their intubated relatives only had the flu. Many believed the doctors and nurses hailed elsewhere for their sacrifices were conspiring to make money by falsifying covid-19 diagnoses. ...

The post-traumatic stress experienced by nurses and doctors during the pandemic has been compared to what soldiers suffer. But in places still rife with covid denial — often rural, conservative and devoted to former president Donald Trump — there is a difference: It is like having fought in a war that many believe never took place.

[tower912]

I know that I was positively un-civil when, after saying in a public place that I had had COVID and detailing my symptoms, having a troglodyte tell me I was lying.     Actually was a little cathartic going off on that pathetic person.   

[JWags85]

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.

Sure.  I never said such people don't exist.  Some people make lifestyle choices on what their favorite athlete likes and some hang on their governor or president's every word.  But I think sometimes influence can be overstated when justifying people's personal choices, thats all.  Its an opinion, not a fact, people can have different opinions.  I never spoke in absolutes.  Just to personal choice on a vaccine that is widely and easily available.

I just don't appreciate being called a troll and disingenuous, and then repeatedly having my intelligence directly and indirectly called into question, then capped off with a crack about my "limited purview", all because I don't agree full wholeheartedly with someone who apparently thinks this board is their personal blog.

[Jockey]

I didn't call him out for "name calling."  Reading comprehension would help you here.

So you got your doctoral degree in English?

[pacearrow02]

Sure.  I never said such people don't exist.  Some people make lifestyle choices on what their favorite athlete likes and some hang on their governor or president's every word.  But I think sometimes influence can be overstated when justifying people's personal choices, thats all.  Its an opinion, not a fact, people can have different opinions.  I never spoke in absolutes.  Just to personal choice on a vaccine that is widely and easily available.

I just don't appreciate being called a troll and disingenuous, and then repeatedly having my intelligence directly and indirectly called into question, then capped off with a crack about my "limited purview", all because I don't agree full wholeheartedly with someone who apparently thinks this board is their personal blog.

💯!!!  At least you haven't been called Chico yet, from what I understand that's as bad as it gets.

[🏀]

💯!!!  At least you haven't been called Chico yet, from what I understand that's as bad as it gets.

It's not so bad when you're Chicos than it is when you're like a chicos.

[MU82]

From the NYT:

The world's known coronavirus death toll passed four million on Thursday, a loss roughly equivalent to the population of Los Angeles, according to the Center for Systems Science and Engineering at Johns Hopkins University.

It took nine months for the virus to claim one million lives, and the pace has quickened since then. The second million were lost in three and a half months, the third in three months, and the fourth in about two and a half months. The number of daily reported deaths has declined recently.

Those are officially reported figures, which are widely believed to undercount pandemic-related deaths.

"The numbers may not tell the complete story, and yet they're still really staggering numbers globally," said Jennifer B. Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health.

[jficke13]

Sad but eye-opening Washington Post piece about how some nurses have been scarred by COVID-19 -- not just by dealing with infected patients, but also by the disinformation campaigns they faced in their own communities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/07/06/appalachian-covid-deniers-nurses-virginia/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F341699e%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F72%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c

A few paragraphs from the article:

They were enduring the traumas known to ICU workers across the world: days filled with death, nights ruined by dreams in which they found themselves at infected patients' bedsides without masks. But they were also enduring a trauma that many doctors and nurses elsewhere were not: the suspicion and derision of those they risked their lives to protect.

Conspiracy theories about the pandemic and lies recited on social media — or at White House news conferences — had penetrated deep into their community. When refrigerated trailers were brought in to relieve local hospitals' overflowing morgues, people said they were stage props. Agitated and unmasked relatives stood outside the ICU insisting that their intubated relatives only had the flu. Many believed the doctors and nurses hailed elsewhere for their sacrifices were conspiring to make money by falsifying covid-19 diagnoses. ...

The post-traumatic stress experienced by nurses and doctors during the pandemic has been compared to what soldiers suffer. But in places still rife with covid denial — often rural, conservative and devoted to former president Donald Trump — there is a difference: It is like having fought in a war that many believe never took place.

An author/critical care nurse that I know wrote a memoir while processing the emotional trauma of a year of holding her in the dike of death we're all in such a rush to forget and ignore.

https://www.amazon.com/Year-Nurse-2020-Pandemic-Memoir-ebook/dp/B095PWYG3B