COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[Mutaman]

Economists would state the time for the Federal Government to loosen their belts are at times of crisis.  Then tighten when things are good.  The problem is that nobody at the Federal level wants to tighten even in good times.  Ever.

"President Clinton oversaw a very robust economy during his tenure. The U.S. had strong economic growth (around 4% annually) and record job creation (22.7 million). He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers early in his first term and cut defense spending and welfare, which contributed to a rise in revenue and decline in spending relative to the size of the economy. These factors helped bring the United States federal budget into surplus from the fiscal year 1998 to 2001, the only surplus years after 1969. Debt held by the public, a primary measure of the national debt, fell relative to GDP throughout his two terms, from 47.8% in 1993 to 31.4% in 2001.[1]"
Wiki

[Galway Eagle]

Ok, kid.  You'll grow up some day.

Smart response. Really mature, don't address the argument or comparison just insult me. While you're at it do you want to make your usual juvenile sexist innuendo so you and JB can giggle? And you call me "kid"

[MU82]

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it's ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

It was not a personal attack, nor do I think Johnson is a moron.

I feel he is a science denier and a political opportunist.

And now I feel badly for him that he is sick, and I honestly wish him a speedy and full recovery.

I also hope he didn't make dozens of others sick (or worse) with his political grandstanding.

Lenny, I think you'll agree with me that it's OK to criticize a world leader for his or her words and deeds and not wish him or her to be physically ill, right?

[MarquetteDano]

"President Clinton oversaw a very robust economy during his tenure. The U.S. had strong economic growth (around 4% annually) and record job creation (22.7 million). He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers early in his first term and cut defense spending and welfare, which contributed to a rise in revenue and decline in spending relative to the size of the economy. These factors helped bring the United States federal budget into surplus from the fiscal year 1998 to 2001, the only surplus years after 1969. Debt held by the public, a primary measure of the national debt, fell relative to GDP throughout his two terms, from 47.8% in 1993 to 31.4% in 2001.[1]"
Wiki

The good old days when the economy was truly humming.  Though, it wasn't like spending was cut.  It was just that the economy grew so much tax revenues went up huge versus spending.

Though point taken.  Since 1965 we have had five years of surplus.  That is 5 out of 55.  So I should not have said "Ever".

[Jay Bee]

Guys (and part guys/girls as we have several in this thread)... help my simplistic thoughts evolve...

Some are cheering NYC 'plateauing or going down'... I just don't get it. If we make everyone stay in their homes, isn't that the obvious result?

My concern is we're going to go through a series of re-SPURTS...

If we don't have a vaccine (supposedly a long ways off) or testing and plans to address the results (when does this happen?), haven't we just pushed off the infections and deaths?

The cure will be worse than the problem itself. That's a #donedeal. We're just delaying stuff at this point.

Unless there is a miracle cure and/or a huge ramp up in testing and actions based on those results, we're screwed for a long time.

Please help me if I'm missing something.

[Jay Bee]

PS - personal opinion. This is the end of Earth. It's been fun.

[MU82]

That's fine, he is still not losing to Sleepy Joe.

You might be right.

[BM1090]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1247350512078532610

[ZiggysFryBoy]

And now SK is having re-infections, return of infection or double false negatives.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192015/amp/Fifty-one-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-South-Korea.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true

[GooooMarquette]

Guys (and part guys/girls as we have several in this thread)... help my simplistic thoughts evolve...

Some are cheering NYC 'plateauing or going down'... I just don't get it. If we make everyone stay in their homes, isn't that the obvious result?

My concern is we're going to go through a series of re-SPURTS...

If we don't have a vaccine (supposedly a long ways off) or testing and plans to address the results (when does this happen?), haven't we just pushed off the infections and deaths?

The cure will be worse than the problem itself. That's a #donedeal. We're just delaying stuff at this point.

Unless there is a miracle cure and/or a huge ramp up in testing and actions based on those results, we're screwed for a long time.

Please help me if I'm missing something.

Lots of people are going to die of COVID no matter which path we choose. That is a given.

But slowing the rate of infections will still save many lives, because if we just let it spread uncontrolled, it would overwhelm the healthcare system to the point where people could literally be dying in the streets. We are on the razor's edge already - reopening the economy now would turn a lethal infection into a MUCH MORE lethal one.

In short, lots of deaths either way. But many, many less if we can slow the pace.

[Jay Bee]

Lots of people are going to die of COVID no matter which path we choose. That is a given.

But slowing the rate of infections will still save many lives, because if we just let it spread uncontrolled, it would overwhelm the healthcare system to the point where people could literally be dying in the streets. We are on the razor's edge already - reopening the economy now would turn a lethal infection into a MUCH MORE lethal one.

In short, lots of deaths either way. But many, many less if we can slow the pace.

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

[GooooMarquette]

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

Yes you do understand it. Open, close, open, close.

People are still gonna die, but they will at least have the opportunity to get the best medical care we are able to offer. And doing that will decrease the mortality rate as much as we can.

Think about it this way - the other alternatives are either: (1) keep everything shut until a vaccine is developed; or (2) just open the floodgates.

#1 would likely do so much damage to the economy that people might be dying of starvation (think Great Depression).

#2 would overwhelm the healthcare system to the point where people couldn't even get in hospital doors and die in the streets (think The Plague by Camus).

Our current path is essentially trying to thread the needle between #1 and #2, minimizing human suffering and death as much as we can. But make no mistake: there is no "good" choice. We are simply trying to find the "least bad" path.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Jesus is watching you.

No, not really

[Pakuni]

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

Medicine + herd immunity, then eventually a vaccine.

[Mutaman]

You might be right.

or, he might be wrong.

[shoothoops]

In a direct memo dated January 29, 2020, Peter Navarro told Trump that COVID-19 could cost 500,000 American lives and Trillions of dollars. On March 26th, 2020, Trump said nobody could have predicted this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.html#click=https://t.co/U1BwVCMG8l

[Lennys Tap]

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

We're not going to shut the economy down for 12-18 months waiting for a vaccine. The depression that would ensue would be worse than what Covid can do. I think the real hope is that mitigation flattens/slows the disease so that a) the health system isn't totally overwhelmed in the short term and b) we buy enough time to find/develop a real therapeutic drug that will save lives while we await a vaccine.

[MU82]

or, he might be wrong.

True. That would seem to be the other possibility. Unless JB (aka, Jesus' spokesperson) is right and these are the End Times.

[🏀]

PS - personal opinion. This is the end of Earth. It's been fun.

Pretty much where I've been since March 10th.

[Hards Alumni]

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it's ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

To me it was more of a, "kid who plays with matches shouldn't be surprised that the house burned down" sort of thing.

[Hards Alumni]

author=Jay Bee link=topic=59849.msg1230178#msg1230178 date=1586226617]
Guys (and part guys/girls as we have several in this thread)... help my simplistic thoughts evolve...

Some are cheering NYC 'plateauing or going down'... I just don't get it. If we make everyone stay in their homes, isn't that the obvious result?

My concern is we're going to go through a series of re-SPURTS...

If we don't have a vaccine (supposedly a long ways off) or testing and plans to address the results (when does this happen?), haven't we just pushed off the infections and deaths?

The cure will be worse than the problem itself. That's a #donedeal. We're just delaying stuff at this point.

Unless there is a miracle cure and/or a huge ramp up in testing and actions based on those results, we're screwed for a long time.

Please help me if I'm missing something.

We have explained this several times. 

The way we get through this is testing.  I've been saying it for months now.  You test people and find out who has it and who doesn't, and who has already had it.  Those who have it stay the eff home.  Those who don't have it, self quarantine.  Those who have had it and recovered can go the eff back to work.  We continue on this path until we have a vaccine or another treatment arises.

Sorry for the bad news, but when we screw around and do half assed quarantines this is what the eff happens.  We get hit with serious pain and eff up our effing economy.  Take this ish seriously and berate those who don't.  Be mad as hell at them because they are the ones effing up the economy at this point.

Edited to remove snark.

[Lennys Tap]

To me it was more of a, "kid who plays with matches shouldn't be surprised that the house burned down" sort of thing.

IOW, he's a moron and he had it coming.

[Jockey]

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it's ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

What is your opinion of a science denier who ignorantly infected his pregnant girlfriend? If he wants to refuse any precautions, he gets what he deserves. But his actions (or lack thereof) have caused many people to suffer and die in the U.K. He put his unborn child at risk just so he could act like a tough guy.

I don't want anyone to die of this virus, including Mr. Johnson, but to pretend he is in the ICU because of anything other than his own stupidity is nonsense.

[Lennys Tap]

What is your opinion of a science denier who ignorantly infected his pregnant girlfriend? If he wants to refuse any precautions, he gets what he deserves. But his actions (or lack thereof) have caused many people to suffer and die in the U.K. He put his unborn child at risk just so he could act like a tough guy.

I don't want anyone to die of this virus, including Mr. Johnson, but to pretend he is in the ICU because of anything other than his own stupidity is nonsense.

So now he's a murderer and a moron who only got a little of what he deserves.

[Hards Alumni]

IOW, he's a moron and he had it coming.

No, two different things.  Had it coming implies that he deserved it and that Mike desire for it to happen.

Desire and intent are important.  As a lawyer.