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Author Topic: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")  (Read 1085042 times)

TallTitan34

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #675 on: March 10, 2020, 04:41:13 PM »
Help me out here.   "Expert advice" says the same thing, that masks are for the unwell, to keep their germs in.  Healthy people don't need them.

Then why are health care professionals wearing masks?

Because they are extremely close to sick person treating them?

mu03eng

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #676 on: March 10, 2020, 04:41:44 PM »
This image was posted by someone in my LinkedIn Network, so if the curve is off on the 'days' delay, I apologize.  This however, is why I think testing is broad testing is not a bad idea.   None of these countries have shown the ability to yet contain the outbreak or protect vulnerable areas (i.e. nursing homes).  Thus far only a few Asian countries have--and it has been aggressive.  So as Eng said earlier--slow it down, allow the health system and medical supply chain to catch up and make it to the months that hopefully present a lower risk of transmission. 

I also cannot think of areas where less info leads to less uncertainty/panic.   



The curves are off/misleading because the virus doesn't spread at the same rate and with the same distribution pattern in each city. This is one of those charts that is factually accurate but narratively incomplete/misleading.

And the frame of reference is odd, the US is 11.5 days behind Italy in what capacity. Here is Wisconsin we had our first patient test positive and since fully recover over 5 weeks ago. Yes we have two new patients so it is continuing to spread obviously but what occurred in Italy 10.5 days ago that is occurring in the US now?
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mu03eng

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #677 on: March 10, 2020, 04:42:53 PM »
Because they are extremely close to sick person treating them?

And they know how to use them....Joe and Jane Q Public fiddle with them, touch their face, etc. Healthcare professionals know how to use the equipment appropriately so it will help prevent the receipt of germs.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

jesmu84

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #678 on: March 10, 2020, 04:43:52 PM »
And they know how to use them....Joe and Jane Q Public fiddle with them, touch their face, etc. Healthcare professionals know how to use the equipment appropriately so it will help prevent the receipt of germs.

Also, not all masks are the same

Hards Alumni

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #679 on: March 10, 2020, 04:48:43 PM »
So what if I get tested, don't have it, catch it the next day, and go visit grandma a few days later?

How often do you expect everyone to get tested?

Well, results are not instant.  So while you await results, you self quarantine.  If you are alerted that you came into contact with another infected person you test again.

That is what works.  What would be the argument against this?  Price of tests?  Availability of tests?  Both of those problems are easily solved.  What is not easily solved is an overwhelmed health care system.  You can train people to do testing, and analyze tests much faster than you can train doctors and nurses, and produce hospitals and ventilators.

rocky_warrior

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #680 on: March 10, 2020, 04:55:21 PM »
Masks will stop you from SPREADING. Masks will do nothing to stop you from RECEIVING.

This is not correct. To work properly for prevention, the masks need to be fitted properly, and N95.  Also, if you're sick, it can help slow the spread, but those infected probably aren't using them correctly either.

TallTitan34

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #681 on: March 10, 2020, 04:57:32 PM »
Well, results are not instant.  So while you await results, you self quarantine.  If you are alerted that you came into contact with another infected person you test again.

Ok so I self quarantine then catch it.  Back to square one.  What if I don't know I came in contact with an infected person?

Hards Alumni

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #682 on: March 10, 2020, 05:03:30 PM »
Ok so I self quarantine then catch it.  Back to square one.  What if I don't know I came in contact with an infected person?

That is exactly why we test, and find out where people have been in the past.  To establish who may or may not be infected.

Information saves lives.

mu03eng

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #683 on: March 10, 2020, 05:05:24 PM »
That is exactly why we test, and find out where people have been in the past.  To establish who may or may not be infected.

Information saves lives.

That matters at outbreak, we're past that so its not as critical
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

warriorchick

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #684 on: March 10, 2020, 05:12:04 PM »
There is a hot rumor spreading around campus that classes are canceled for the rest of the month.

It is not true (at least as of the time of this post).

If your MU kid tells you he doesn't have to go to class, set them straight.
Have some patience, FFS.

#UnleashSean

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #685 on: March 10, 2020, 05:13:36 PM »
There is a hot rumor spreading around campus that classes are canceled for the rest of the month.

It is not true (at least as of the time of this post).

If your MU kid tells you he doesn't have to go to class, set them straight.

By the end of the week I'm guessing most colleges will be shut down through spring break.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #686 on: March 10, 2020, 05:13:52 PM »
This is interesting .. "quarantine lite" ..

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/new-york-rochelle-coronavirus-containment-zone

Residents of the area will be allowed to leave and enter the zone, small businesses are expected to remain open, and people will be allowed to move about as they would in a normal day, officials said.


What's the point of that?  Maybe they could make the people wear a scarlet "C" or something.

rocky_warrior

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #687 on: March 10, 2020, 05:16:10 PM »
You get tested because employers will pay you to stay home!

https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-coronavirus-leave-policy-kentucky-paid-2020-3

Honestly, I understand the statement "testing doesn't mean much for me", but if you know you have it, you shouldn't go anywhere, and once you feel better, you're supposed to get tested again to be sure your isolation can end.

I don't understand the arguments against testing...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 05:23:52 PM by rocky_warrior »

Hards Alumni

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #688 on: March 10, 2020, 05:21:53 PM »
That matters at outbreak, we're past that so its not as critical

Explain China, South Korea, Japan, Singapore.

How did they get this under control?

The window narrows every day that we don't implement this sort of solution.  Should have been ramping up the moment that this left China's border.

What is your solution to deal with what is coming?  Let it happen?  Let all the people who are at risk, die?  Bad news, you're talking about letting hundreds of thousands of people die, probably more.  For starters, we have about one million hospital beds available in the US, and 65% of those are occupied with non-Covid19 patients.  Now we look at people with risk factors.  Obesity (99 mllion), kidney disease (30 million), COPD (16 million, low end)... I realize there is plenty of overlap in those numbers, but you get my point.  And no, I'm not saying they're all going to die.  But if we say 60% of the obese population contracts this, and we say only 5% die, we are still talking about just under 3 million people.  You're an engineer (presumably from your name), run the numbers.

What do you suggest?  I'm genuinely curious.

Jockey

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #689 on: March 10, 2020, 05:22:52 PM »
Ok so I self quarantine then catch it.  Back to square one.  What if I don't know I came in contact with an infected person?

If you have symptoms, get tested. Otherwise, no. There is no perfect answer.

GooooMarquette

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #690 on: March 10, 2020, 05:25:39 PM »
Yes, that is my position.  It will save lives, and that is what we should be prioritizing.  You start with people who have had close contact with those who are infected and then you test people who have been where the infected have been, then you test the people who have had contact with those folks.  It is an outward spiral that forms a net that finds out who has it, and how and where it is transmitted.  Cast a wide net, catch a lot of fish.  What is the reason to not test everyone?  Cost?  I get that there is a lack of test kits, but that should be resolved quickly.  I also imagine that China would be willing to send the US and others kits as soon as they can produce them.

The CDC can kick rocks.  They're telling people to not wear masks despite SK's advice that it helps.  Their response to this appears to be very inadequate on the surface as well.  Hopefully, they have a better plan than, 'wait and see'.


Just curious: where did you get your MPH? Or your MD?

GooooMarquette

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #691 on: March 10, 2020, 05:30:00 PM »
You get tested because employers will pay you to stay home!

https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-coronavirus-leave-policy-kentucky-paid-2020-3

Honestly, I understand the statement "testing doesn't mean much for me", but if you know you have it, you shouldn't go anywhere, and once you feel better, you're supposed to get tested again to be sure your isolation can end.

I don't understand the arguments against testing...


Simple argument against testing: if you are in a demographic group where you will likely have symptoms like a minor flu, and work for a company that already gives paid sick leave, you will recover perfectly well and at lower cost by staying home and doing appropriate self-care.

Lower cost, same outcome. Is that straightforward enough?

Hards Alumni

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #692 on: March 10, 2020, 05:32:28 PM »

Just curious: where did you get your MPH? Or your MD?

Same place the rest of us did.  Are you checking to see if I played high school basketball?  Maybe you can dunk.  I don't know if that matters. 

You're not required to listen to my advice, and you should absolutely question it.  I'm going from what I've read, and listened to from credible sources.  If you want me to drop more links, I can.  But you can probably tell, I have an extreme interest in this.

FWIW, my degree from Marquette is in Biomedical Science. 

This is interesting .. "quarantine lite" ..

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/new-york-rochelle-coronavirus-containment-zone

Residents of the area will be allowed to leave and enter the zone, small businesses are expected to remain open, and people will be allowed to move about as they would in a normal day, officials said.


What's the point of that?  Maybe they could make the people wear a scarlet "C" or something.

Test run to check compliance?  My best guess.

StillAWarrior

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #693 on: March 10, 2020, 05:43:48 PM »
By the end of the week I'm guessing most colleges will be shut down through spring break.

Just received from Purdue:

"FUTURE CLASSES AND INSTRUCTION: All faculty and staff should move their courses to online or alternative delivery before March 23 and should be prepared to continue as long as in-person instruction seems inadvisable (potentially through the end of the semester). To be clear, the campus will remain open after spring break. However, starting March 23, students must take their courses online...Students in the residence halls have the option of choosing whether to return to campus or not after spring break. Again, we will work to ensure that all students can complete their program of study online or have other accommodations."


Spring break is next week, so this is taking effect after the break. I wonder if my daughter's friend will still come with her, or if she'll head home. I suppose that will likely depend on what we opt to do (i.e., keep her home or let her return).
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

GooooMarquette

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #694 on: March 10, 2020, 05:45:20 PM »

Same place the rest of us did.

FWIW, my degree from Marquette is in Biomedical Science. 


Uh, no. I got my MD from the Medical College of Wisconsin, class of ‘87. I can’t dunk, but I understand epidemiology and disease management, and can read and understand CDC and WHO guidelines.

rocket surgeon

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #695 on: March 10, 2020, 05:50:53 PM »
Uh, no. I got my MD from the Medical College of Wisconsin, class of ‘87. I can’t dunk, but I understand epidemiology and disease management, and can read and understand CDC and WHO guidelines.

i think that sound we just heard was hards face plant :-X
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jesmu84

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #697 on: March 10, 2020, 05:52:56 PM »
Just received from Purdue:

"FUTURE CLASSES AND INSTRUCTION: All faculty and staff should move their courses to online or alternative delivery before March 23 and should be prepared to continue as long as in-person instruction seems inadvisable (potentially through the end of the semester). To be clear, the campus will remain open after spring break. However, starting March 23, students must take their courses online...Students in the residence halls have the option of choosing whether to return to campus or not after spring break. Again, we will work to ensure that all students can complete their program of study online or have other accommodations."


Spring break is next week, so this is taking effect after the break. I wonder if my daughter's friend will still come with her, or if she'll head home. I suppose that will likely depend on what we opt to do (i.e., keep her home or let her return).

All Indiana University campuses are on-line only classes till April

GooooMarquette

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #698 on: March 10, 2020, 05:56:35 PM »
i think that sound we just heard was hards face plant :-X

I hate doing that; the fact that most here didn’t know about my degree shows that. But I can’t tolerate a know-it-all who claims to understand something like this better than the experts at CDC and WHO, and who talk down to anyone who doesn’t follow his lead...

Galway Eagle

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Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
« Reply #699 on: March 10, 2020, 06:01:57 PM »
I hate doing that; the fact that most here didn’t know about my degree shows that. But I can’t tolerate a know-it-all who claims to understand something like this better than the experts at CDC and WHO, and who talk down to anyone who doesn’t follow his lead...

Clearly he overplayed his hand but to be fair I'd wager the vast majority of this board has Business or Communications degrees so in terms of relevance I'd put his knowledge behind yours and the other Medical professionals on here (Dentists excluded) but a heck of a lot more relevant than the majority of us.
Maigh Eo for Sam

 

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