MU Head Coach dilemma. Great groan or gone

[Elonsmusk]

Absurdly small sample size.  What kind of conclusions do you come up with for Tony Bennett for two years in the tournament?  Is he the incompetent who was the first top seed to lose in the first round?  Or is he the guy who one the championship.  That is my point about Dean Smith.  I am not claiming Wojo is Dean Smith.  I am just reminding people of all the claims you used to hear that Dean "couldn't win the big one."  Clearly he could.  Now people are arguing if the game against South Carolina was competitive or not.  Stupid, stupid argument.  It is one game.  The score becomes irrelevant.  The team was in it for most of the game and ran out of gas.  Anybody who has watched a lot of college basketball knows that things can snowball and the final score is often meaningless. 

I find myself agreeing with WhoaJoe here.  He lays out a pretty clear and logical argument and the reply is, "lots of pretzel logic there, and you are a Wojo lover."  Boy, there's some brilliant analysis!  No attempt to counter the points he made, simple dismissal followed by name calling. 

I will put myself in the ProJoe camp for now.  Like any other of these arguments about whether to get rid of a coach/player in whatever sport, they leave open the important question, who are you going to get to replace him?  Pointing to the most successful guy out there and saying "Him!" is stupid.  You were never going to get that guy in the first place, you are certainly not going to get him by firing a successful coach, and comparing the guy you got to the most successful out there is a stupid idea anyway.  The standards some of you put forward are prerposterous. 
Making the tournament 99% of the time?  Right.  And when you come down from your high, let me know where you get that great grass from.  With it becoming legal in more and more places, it's good to know where you can find consistent quality.

Okay. So it was one game.  Last year we needed to win just 1 out of our last 4 games to clinch sole Big East title.  We lost all 4, included to Number 100 Georgetown at home in the last game of the year.

Wojo has essentially the worst track record at MU since Bob Dukiet. 

He's got zero conference championships, zero NCAA wins through his first 5 years, and this likely will become the 6th season of the same performance.  Next season will probably become the 7th.

The argument of "who will we get to replace him" is lame.  MU is a really good job in college hoops.  A Top 20 caliber job.  Would hiring someone else who doesn't win a conference title or NCAA game for 5 more years be any worse?  We know what we have in Wojo.  He's a mediocre coach. Expecting anything more from him is fools gold.   

[Cheeks]

Okay. So it was one game.  Last year we needed to win just 1 out of our last 4 games to clinch sole Big East title.  We lost all 4, included to Number 100 Georgetown at home in the last game of the year.

Wojo has essentially the worst track record at MU since Bob Dukiet. 

He's got zero conference championships, zero NCAA wins through his first 5 years, and this likely will become the 6th season of the same performance.  Next season will probably become the 7th.

The argument of "who will we get to replace him" is lame.  MU is a really good job in college hoops.  A Top 20 caliber job.  Would hiring someone else who doesn't win a conference title or NCAA game for 5 more years be any worse?  We know what we have in Wojo.  He's a mediocre coach. Expecting anything more from him is fools gold.

False, stop repeating your Dukiet lies.  Beyond ridiculous.

[Cheeks]

Wait, this is a chico's arguement, I mean cheeks,  or hoop a loop or warrior dad. You need to keep your alter egos straight.

This is awesome, I actually hope more people continue to do this to you guys...entertaining as hell.  Yes, God forbid there are many people that have similar views as mine....that cannot be possible.  LOL

[Cheeks]

Some are very short.

The long ones are solely intended as a counter to the extreme NoJos. Combined they are far more prolific than I could ever hope to be.
If you are not an extreme NoJo, who only criticizes his failures and never credits his successes, then my comments are not intended for you.

By the way, you're actually counting my posts?????? WTAF

As far as grades go, I give Wojo a C+ or a B- as an overall grade

For NCAA success I give him an F

Overall grade B

Three straight post season bids.  2nd place finish last year.  Have beaten excellent teams.  Recruiting continues to get better.  All American.  Solid citizens.  Consistency has been a challenge. 

NCAA success is partly about getting there, so cannot give a F. 

[WhoaJoe2020]

What's the record for the number of Chicos found in one thread?

The "logic" on this topic is baffling. Jay Wright didn't win big before he won big. Wojo has never won big. Therefore Wojo is Jay Wright. Substitute Tony Bennett, same false syllogism. Throw in Dean Smith - not winning "the big one" is akin to not winning the first one. And BTW, how you lose doesn't matter either. Giving up and getting blown out shortly after halftime (Murray State) or in the game's final 7 minutes (S Carolina) is no different than battling to the wire and coming up just short. Hilarious.

No one can be this smart.

[Cheeks]

No one can be this smart.

Lenny is that smart...just ask him.

[hairy worthen]

This is awesome, I actually hope more people continue to do this to you guys...entertaining as hell.  Yes, God forbid there are many people that have similar views as mine....that cannot be possible.  LOL

You are entertaining I will say that. I especially like the way you pretend to PM your alter ego and then answer on a thread to make us believe you. Well done.

[Elonsmusk]

False, stop repeating your Dukiet lies.  Beyond ridiculous.

Lol. Are you by chance masochistic?  Because you sure do get slapped around here by everyone other than your 5 alter ego accounts.

Even your boy Crean massively outperformed Wojo, coming into the program while we were mis-major status in C-USA with the Old Gym to recruit to. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[Cheeks]

You are entertaining I will say that. I especially like the way you pretend to PM your alter ego and then answer on a thread to make us believe you. Well done.

Like I said, this is 100% provable by the moderators.  I'd ask them to do so, but I cannot make them.  That's why I'm find it funny because I suspect they are in on this one or have no desire to set the record straight.  Whatever, fine by me....The fact that it gets you guys all wound up and I have absolutely nothing to do with it makes me laugh.  You guys chase your tails at a lot of people that you think are someone and they are not.  I find that absolutely hilarious. 

In about a month I will be under for a surgery, it would be funny if these guys are posting during that time and I upload the post op docs showing the timing....the collective WTF on some of your faces would be priceless.  I won't announce which day...this could be fun to watch the mea culpas.

[Cheeks]

Lol. Are you by chance masochistic?  Because you sure do get slapped around here by everyone other than your 5 alter ego accounts.

Even your boy Crean massively outperformed Wojo, coming into the program while we were mis-major status in C-USA with the Old Gym to recruit to. 🤦🏼‍♂️

You lost all credibility with your Hank Raymond's nonsense last week.  And I'm only posting under this username, mods can verify that if they wish...that's up to them.  So you would be wrong...again.

How's Houston....lot's of tough weather in the state yesterday.  I'll be there in late February for a wedding.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Absurdly small sample size.  What kind of conclusions do you come up with for Tony Bennett for two years in the tournament?  Is he the incompetent who was the first top seed to lose in the first round?  Or is he the guy who one the championship.  That is my point about Dean Smith.  I am not claiming Wojo is Dean Smith.  I am just reminding people of all the claims you used to hear that Dean "couldn't win the big one."  Clearly he could.  Now people are arguing if the game against South Carolina was competitive or not.  Stupid, stupid argument.  It is one game.  The score becomes irrelevant.  The team was in it for most of the game and ran out of gas.  Anybody who has watched a lot of college basketball knows that things can snowball and the final score is often meaningless. 

I find myself agreeing with WhoaJoe here.  He lays out a pretty clear and logical argument and the reply is, "lots of pretzel logic there, and you are a Wojo lover."  Boy, there's some brilliant analysis!  No attempt to counter the points he made, simple dismissal followed by name calling. 

I will put myself in the ProJoe camp for now.  Like any other of these arguments about whether to get rid of a coach/player in whatever sport, they leave open the important question, who are you going to get to replace him?  Pointing to the most successful guy out there and saying "Him!" is stupid.  You were never going to get that guy in the first place, you are certainly not going to get him by firing a successful coach, and comparing the guy you got to the most successful out there is a stupid idea anyway.  The standards some of you put forward are prerposterous. 
Making the tournament 99% of the time?  Right.  And when you come down from your high, let me know where you get that great grass from.  With it becoming legal in more and more places, it's good to know where you can find consistent quality.

It is a small sample size.  You are correct.  But when combined with the tendency over the last three years for there to be blowout losses to teams where that should not happen, the end of season losses to bad teams in 2018(?) that likely kept us out of the NCAAs, and the same collapse last year that kept us from winning the BE title - all of a sudden the sample size is bigger and much more relevant.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Overall grade B

Three straight post season bids.  2nd place finish last year.  Have beaten excellent teams.  Recruiting continues to get better.  All American.  Solid citizens.  Consistency has been a challenge. 

NCAA success is partly about getting there, so cannot give a F.

Did I  really need to specifically say success once in the NCAA tournament ?

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny is that smart.

Thanks.

[Warrior Code]

Anyone else feel at least a little better about the Murray State game after seeing what Ja Morant has done to some of these NBA guys this year? I feel like a lot of people harp on the seed or the fact that it wasn't a big name school, but that kid is a PROBLEM.

Obviously their team beat our team, but it's pretty tough luck to get matched up against the #2 pick in the first round 

[brewcity77]

Lol. Some mind bending pretzel logic here. And you are a Wojo zealot. Good Lord.

Must feel like looking into a mirror. The same, except the scars are on the other side.

[Cheeks]

Anyone else feel at least a little better about the Murray State game after seeing what Ja Morant has done to some of these NBA guys this year? I feel like a lot of people harp on the seed or the fact that it wasn't a big name school, but that kid is a PROBLEM.

Obviously their team beat our team, but it's pretty tough luck to get matched up against the #2 pick in the first round

He's a force and a horrible matchup for us.  There were many that said Murray State, FSU and a few others were not good for our style.  Who you play matters.  People over reach with the seed number, i5 is the style of play that matters.  UCLA Princeton.  LMU vs Michigan.  FGCU vs Georgetown.  Etc, etc.

[Elonsmusk]

Must feel like looking into a mirror. The same, except the scars are on the other side.

Not at all. No scars here. Only ones with scars are those who went all in on Wojo Year 1, and continue to have to contort their logic to justify where we are 6 years later. 

[willie warrior]

Okay. So it was one game.  Last year we needed to win just 1 out of our last 4 games to clinch sole Big East title.  We lost all 4, included to Number 100 Georgetown at home in the last game of the year.

Wojo has essentially the worst track record at MU since Bob Dukiet. 

He's got zero conference championships, zero NCAA wins through his first 5 years, and this likely will become the 6th season of the same performance.  Next season will probably become the 7th.

The argument of "who will we get to replace him" is lame.  MU is a really good job in college hoops.  A Top 20 caliber job.  Would hiring someone else who doesn't win a conference title or NCAA game for 5 more years be any worse?  We know what we have in Wojo.  He's a mediocre coach. Expecting anything more from him is fools gold.

Preach.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Not at all. No scars here. Only ones with scars are those who went all in on Wojo Year 1, and continue to have to contort their logic to justify where we are 6 years later.

So they should have tepidly supported him in year one?

I guess you're right.....After five losing seasons and no tournament appearances, as well as no enjoyable players to watch, mid-major level recruiting, and a dirty program.............

I have to agree with you, it's time for Wojo to go........to a fan base that shows just a little appreciation for the good he has done.

[The Sultan]

So they should have tepidly supported him in year one?

I guess you're right.....After five losing seasons and no tournament appearances, as well as no enjoyable players to watch, mid-major level recruiting, and a dirty program.............

I have to agree with you, it's time for Wojo to go........to a fan base that shows just a little appreciation for the good he has done.

A win win for everyone. Hausers were smart.

[WhiteTrash]

I'll throw out a number......223

That's the number of upsets in the NCAA tournament since 1985..... Just by 11 seeds and lower. I didn't bother looking for the number of 10 seeds or higher upsetting a higher ranked opponents  in the tournament , but you get the idea......... # crapshoot

Less than 10%. This is one of the strongest anti-crapshoot post I've seen.

[brewcity77]

Not at all. No scars here. Only ones with scars are those who went all in on Wojo Year 1, and continue to have to contort their logic to justify where we are 6 years later.

Your ability to completely miss a point may be the highest on all of Scoop.

[Eldon]

Wojo didn't wait. Coach K waited until advising him to leave.

I believe Coach K knows Wojo's image as some floor slapping maniac is a misnomer (if that's the right word) and advised him to take a cushy Marquette gig with massive resources. I'm not saying it was bad advice, either. I believe K knows Wojo is about an inch deep and needed a program to prop him up rather than the other way around.

My problem with Wojo is I don't think he's doing much coaching and he's certainly not a leader. With Buzz and Crean (as irritating as he was and is) you knew they were into the nitty gritty.

Wojo is very likable...I like him... but he is totally miscast as a head coach.

Damn dude.  This has got to be one of the most piercing criticisms that I have ever read of Wojo.  Almost makes me feel bad for him.

(Agree on the leadership part)

[Lennys Tap]

He's a force and a horrible matchup for us.

But not for Jacksonville State.

[MDMU04]

Less than 10%. This is one of the strongest anti-crapshoot post I've seen.

There have been 80 NCAA tournaments since 1939. Not counting vacated titles, 8 programs have won 45 of them.

In other words, 2% of the current D1 programs have won 56% of the tournaments.

There are also only 35 programs that have won an NCAA tournament.

In other words, only 10% of all current D1 programs have won all 80 tournaments.

That doesn't sound too random to me either.