MU Head Coach dilemma. Great groan or gone

[Cheeks]

I've essentially succumbed to what I think the cycle will be forever at MU.

Fans will bitch if coach isn't great, but merely good.

If coach is great, he is leaving MU anyway for a better gig.

Is the hope to catch great for a few years?  Is the desire to be good most years? 

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I've essentially succumbed to what I think the cycle will be forever at MU.

Fans will bitch if coach isn't great, but merely good.

If coach is great, he is leaving MU anyway for a better gig.

Is the hope to catch great for a few years?  Is the desire to be good most years?

Stupid OP, Sybil is bored.

[Markusquette]

All I want is a chance to make the final four again and see what happens after that. If it happens with a "good' coach over a long period of time or a "great" coach within a few year span then I don't have a strong preference. However I worry that temporary coaches won't create much longevity that's healthy for a program.

[Dr. Blackheart]

12% of Scoopers want Wojo gone. Woe is me. I will feel better if I start another pity thread on this same topic.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

All I want is a chance to make the final four again and see what happens after that. If it happens with a "good' coach over a long period of time or a "great" coach within a few year span then I don't have a strong preference. However I worry that temporary coaches won't create much longevity that's healthy for a program.

You have to play a high level of defense in order to get into a Final Four.  Wojo has never shut a good team down with defense.  The only way his teams blow people out is by shooting a high percentage from beyond the 3 pt arc.  That's not the formula to get to the Final Four. 

If you're comfy with 1st and 2nd round NCAA Tourney Potential, then Wojo is your guy. 

[BrewCity83]

My ideal scenario is to get a good coach who over a matter of not too many seasons becomes a great coach.  He loves it here and makes MU a blueblood again.  He does not ever leave for a "better" job, he retires from MU as a legend. 

For the blueprint see Villanova, Gonzaga, Duke - schools with some similarities to MU and one really good coach who settled in there.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

My ideal scenario is to get a good coach who over a matter of not too many seasons becomes a great coach.  He loves it here and makes MU a blueblood again.  He does not ever leave for a "better" job, he retires from MU as a legend. 

For the blueprint see Villanova, Gonzaga, Duke - schools with some similarities to MU and one really good coach who settled in there.

And by year 4 or even less, these coaches were having success at the schools they're at now....the same time their first recruiting classes became seniors.  I just don't see that here with Wojo.   Your data, to be supportive of Wojo, would need to show that they became consistently successful after year 6 at their respective programs.  If Wojo were to get a pass, he'd make a serious jump soon from building up/developing talent - but we don't see that.  Nonetheless, it seems the university doesn't care.  They're happy with optics vs. results. - same as many posters on here who are fooled by image. 

[WhoaJoe2020]

I've essentially succumbed to what I think the cycle will be forever at MU.

Fans will bitch if coach isn't great, but merely good.

If coach is great, he is leaving MU anyway for a better gig.

Is the hope to catch great for a few years?  Is the desire to be good most years?

I don't subscribe to the great coach theory. I think it's way more about the players. I guess if you classify a great coach as one who wins the tournament with lesser talent I would subscribe to that. Gard almost did it. Is he a great coach? Maybe.

[Uncle Rico]

I don't subscribe to the great coach theory. I think it's way more about the players. I guess if you classify a great coach as one who wins the tournament with lesser talent I would subscribe to that. Gard almost did it. Is he a great coach? Maybe.

If Marquette had beaten Murray State but lost to FSU or beaten SoCar and then lost to Duke, the goalposts would have been shifted to "no Sweet 16's".

[Jockey]

Stupid OP, Sybil is bored.

Knit, I disagree with you on many things.

But the Sybil nickname is brilliant.

[WhoaJoe2020]

And by year 4 or even less, these coaches were having success at the schools they're at now....the same time their first recruiting classes became seniors.  I just don't see that here with Wojo.   Your data, to be supportive of Wojo, would need to show that they became consistently successful after year 6 at their respective programs.  If Wojo were to get a pass, he'd make a serious jump soon from building up/developing talent - but we don't see that.  Nonetheless, it seems the university doesn't care.  They're happy with optics vs. results. - same as many posters on here who are fooled by image.

Translation: If you don't agree with MDDG and his or her assessment of Wojos past, present, and potential future level of success, you don't care about results.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Translation: If you don't agree with MDDG and his or her assessment of Wojos past, present, and potential future level of success, you don't care about results.

Translation:  You don't have any ammo left

[mug644]

You have to play a high level of defense in order to get into a Final Four.  Wojo has never shut a good team down with defense.  The only way his teams blow people out is by shooting a high percentage from beyond the 3 pt arc.  That's not the formula to get to the Final Four. 

If you're comfy with 1st and 2nd round NCAA Tourney Potential, then Wojo is your guy.

One could argue that he did that in MU's last game. Did you watch that one?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

One could argue that he did that in MU's last game. Did you watch that one?

One game.... at home.  Not exactly a trend here...

One could also argue that the shots just didn't fall for Nova either.

I'll be convinced they're a great defensive unit when they continually play lockdown defense, deny the ball, maintain matchups/help out, and get deflections.

[war1980rior]

Cheeks, you're killing me on this one.  Dr. B's picture of Eeore (and no, I'm not certain that's the spelling) fits a lot of us, but I'm more of a blue sky ahead kind of guy.  Personally, I'm getting real tired of the 10-15% haters that want Wojo gone.  I know he's not perfect, but here's a couple of plus items on him (in my poorly educated opinion):

He waited 15 years as an assistant.  After 7 or 8 years he was a solid prospect, but waited until Marquette.  Why?  I think it was as he stated.  He wanted a place that could be a destination.  That's what his boss did.  Found a basketball school, that was "traditionally good" but in a rut, and got a great thing going.  I think that is what he wants.  I believe that if we become more successful, Wojo stays.

I'm pretty certain there are better days ahead with him.  He already has a solid class coming in (likely his best so far) and the non-one-and-done players remaining after this year will help build us up a little more, and likely attract another great class. 

I think his coaching path to MU set him up for a bad first five years (and I think he's done better than I expected).  I liked his selection as our coach, but knew it would be a long road.  Wojo is like the guy that went to college in the same town he grew up in.  Then gets his Masters from the same school.  He never really learned from anyone other than Coach K.  Almost 20 years with the same guy. 

I think you need to be under different coaches to be a little more head coach ready.  You can't coach like it's Duke when you've got B players as your stars, and C and D players as the subs.  Coach K (and Al for that matter) had NBA draft picks on their benches.  I think Wojo is learning from his assistants now (which is smart), and it makes all of them better coaches.  I know I learned a lot of the each of my many bosses, but only so much from each one.  I'm glad even the good ones moved along (or me).  I've learned a ton from the folks who worked for me.  It's a long process.  I think he was going to struggle all along.  I also think the next 3-4 years will be very telling.

I don't think he's going away anytime soon, barring some kind of meltdown the few posters on this board are praying for.  There isn't a magic coach to come in and save the day that I can see.  The few posters on the board that attack after every game (every other play on the game threads with bad games) remind me of my best friend at MU.  He loved basketball, and cursed MU nearly every game - "Marquette Sucks!"  He's say it no less than 10x in a good game, even the championship season (our freshman year).  I think he was happy that Al was on his way out.  Reminds me so much of the 10-15% unhappy folks on the board.

While there is a significantly good chance we don't  rise to blueblood, the only way you get there is with a long term coach.  Someone who wants to be there.  John Wooden made UCLA.  Where are they now?  Bobby Knight ... Dean Smith ... Coach K.  They made those schools a destination.  Had they just been good, making the tourney 6 out of every 7 years, maybe a championship, they would have likely stayed anyway.  Jumping on the latest hot coach on a lower team only makes us a stepping stone.  I'd rather wait it out with someone that has a shot, and it will take time.

I think we make the tournament this year, maybe win a game or two, depending on the seed.  Would love a solid run at MSG first.  I kind of knew we were out early with the attitude of the team last year.  This year's team has a much better attitude and belief.  Loved Sam, but Joey (I'll say it again) was a poison.  Mr. Unhappy himself, and it resonated.  Good lesson for Wojo that a high ranked kid might not be worth playing.  Nova benched a five star and it didn't hurt them.  I'm certain Jay Wright had to really think about that, but he did the right thing letting him go.

As I've said many times, I'm not a great basketball expert.  I have coached a college team (although a different sport) and know just how hard it is.  This is just my point of view as a fan.

Make sense, Cheeks?

[war1980rior]

Looks pretty long.  I really rambled on that one!

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

While there is a significantly good chance we don't  rise to blueblood, the only way you get there is with a long term coach.  Someone who wants to be there.  John Wooden made UCLA.  Where are they now? 
[/quote]

Don't underestimate Mick Cronin

[WhoaJoe2020]

Translation:  You don't have any ammo left

Oh I don't know..... I thought I captured the spirit of your sentiment perfectly.

[jesmu84]

One game.... at home.  Not exactly a trend here...

One could also argue that the shots just didn't fall for Nova either.

I'll be convinced they're a great defensive unit when they continually play lockdown defense, deny the ball, maintain matchups/help out, and get deflections.

Goalposts moved. Nice.

[skianth16]

If Marquette had beaten Murray State but lost to FSU or beaten SoCar and then lost to Duke, the goalposts would have been shifted to "no Sweet 16's".

This is part of the reason there is a continued debate that comes up over and over again with Wojo. When people explain the reasons they don't like him, too many here are dismissive of the explanations. Too many proJos want to assume that any criticism simply comes from disliking Wojo as a person rather than being frustrated by the product he puts on the floor.

If Wojo had gotten either of those tournament wins, he would have gained a few more supporters here for sure. And for some of the stronger critics, their views would have become more positive. Winning in March matters to a lot of basketball fans, and until Wojo can prove he's able to do that at Marquette, he's going to continue to get criticism here.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

This is part of the reason there is a continued debate that comes up over and over again with Wojo. When people explain the reasons they don't like him, too many here are dismissive of the explanations. Too many proJos want to assume that any criticism simply comes from disliking Wojo as a person rather than being frustrated by the product he puts on the floor.

If Wojo had gotten either of those tournament wins, he would have gained a few more supporters here for sure. And for some of the stronger critics, their views would have become more positive. Winning in March matters to a lot of basketball fans, and until Wojo can prove he's able to do that at Marquette, he's going to continue to get criticism here.

It's more than a tournament win here.......come on. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He waited 15 years as an assistant.  After 7 or 8 years he was a solid prospect, but waited until Marquette.  Why?

Wojo didn't wait. Coach K waited until advising him to leave.

I believe Coach K knows Wojo's image as some floor slapping maniac is a misnomer (if that's the right word) and advised him to take a cushy Marquette gig with massive resources. I'm not saying it was bad advice, either. I believe K knows Wojo is about an inch deep and needed a program to prop him up rather than the other way around.

My problem with Wojo is I don't think he's doing much coaching and he's certainly not a leader. With Buzz and Crean (as irritating as he was and is) you knew they were into the nitty gritty.

Wojo is very likable...I like him... but he is totally miscast as a head coach.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Wojo didn't wait. Coach K waited until advising him to leave.

I believe Coach K knows Wojo's image as some floor slapping maniac is a misnomer (if that's the right word) and advised him to take a cushy Marquette gig with massive resources. I'm not saying it was bad advice, either. I believe K knows Wojo is about an inch deep and needed a program to prop him up rather than the other way around.

My problem with Wojo is I don't think he's doing much coaching and he's certainly not a leader. With Buzz and Crean (as irritating as he was and is) you knew they were into the nitty gritty.

Wojo is very likable...I like him... but he is totally miscast as a head coach.

Wojo should just be the New Athletic Director since everyone likes him.  It's not a far fetched idea either with all of the basketball connections he has.

[Warrior of Law]

I would say the the anti-Wojo's are about 25%, the ambivalent about Wojo-25%, slightly more than ambivalent-25%, and pro-Wojo 25%.

Trying to win games with walking turnovers such as Koby McEwen, Jamal Cain, and Ed Morrow is pretty difficult. College basketball is about recruiting and getting lucky on a few of them. But for Howard, and to an extent Hauser, he's not had any luck.  I'm not in the Anti-Wojo camp, but I don't really care if he stays/goes.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Wojo should just be the New Athletic Director since everyone likes him.  It's not a far fetched idea either with all of the basketball connections he has.

That's not as crazy as it seems