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Author Topic: Did you guys ever think?  (Read 10012 times)

The Deane Team

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2019, 12:33:03 PM »
Yes

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2019, 12:46:46 PM »
And were the consensus most over-seeded team in the tournament and blew the conference and got destroyed by a mid-major Murray State.

It would be disingenuous not to include all the facts.

Actually the committee said we were the top 5 seed.

Getting destroyed by mid-major Murray State is a fact. "Consensus most over-seeded team in the tournament" is an opinion.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Elonsmusk

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2019, 01:09:08 PM »
?

What rebuilds? Jordan took over a team coming off a 4 seed. Steele took over a team coming off a 1 seed.

Also, you may want to wait until they play some real competition before crowning them. Maybe OT victories over Missouri and Connecticut and wins against Minnesota and Stanford do it for you but I need some more convincing. I think we finish ahead of both when all is said and done though I think Xavier will be right there with us.

Let's have a little context and honesty around this statement:

Steele took over a team that lost JP Macura, Traveon Blueitt, Kaiser Gates, Sean O'Mara, Kareem Kanter.  He inherited less than Wojo did.

It is what it is - Steele and Jordan have done a better job than Wojo.  No need to lie about it, distort realities, and make excuses. 

We are Top 30 right now, and this is acceptable for MU given the reality that Wojo is a mediocre bench coach.  Hopefully we can maintain this 30ish ranking for the year and get a 5/6 seed in tournament.  I'd be happy with that.  Getting an NCAA win would be icing on the cake. 

manesworld

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2019, 01:11:04 PM »
And were the consensus most over-seeded team in the tournament and blew the conference and got destroyed by a mid-major Murray State.

It would be disingenuous not to include all the facts.

Consensus most over-seeded team in the Tournament? What? Lol.

The facts are that even with the collapse, team falling apart, etc. that we were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament last year.

Yup.

Alright..... hang the banner?  I really couldn't care less given the taste left in my mouth thinking about last season.

So you care about the “facts” (which aren’t actually facts) when they fit an agenda but when they don’t you couldn’t care less because of a taste in your mouth. Fair enough. The “fact” is that if MU’s rebuild is still going on (the post I replied to) then so are Xavier’s and Butler’s who haven’t come close to a 5 seed with their current coaches, which he post implied that there was no need for a rebuild for those programs they’re just rolling right along like nothing changed at all.

All this to say, there’s a lot of game left. Or maybe we really should just cancel the season we know Butler and Xavier are better than MU based on 7-9 games played against mostly cupcake opponents. Fair enough.

manesworld

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2019, 01:13:10 PM »
Let's have a little context and honesty around this statement:

Steele took over a team that lost JP Macura, Traveon Blueitt, Kaiser Gates, Sean O'Mara, Kareem Kanter.  He inherited less than Wojo did.

It is what it is - Steele and Jordan have done a better job than Wojo.  No need to lie about it, distort realities, and make excuses. 

We are Top 30 right now, and this is acceptable for MU given the reality that Wojo is a mediocre bench coach.  Hopefully we can maintain this 30ish ranking for the year and get a 5/6 seed in tournament.  I'd be happy with that.  Getting an NCAA win would be icing on the cake.

Lol! Steele inherited less than Wojo? Good God you are even more delusional than anyone thought.

In what way have Steele or Jordan been better than Wojo? Because KenPom says they’re better than us 8 games into the year? The horror!

brewcity77

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2019, 01:15:25 PM »
Actually the committee said we were the top 5 seed.

Getting destroyed by mid-major Murray State is a fact. "Consensus most over-seeded team in the tournament" is an opinion.

Especially when Wisconsin lost as the same seed by roughly the same margin in far fewer possessions.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2019, 01:22:38 PM »
Especially when Wisconsin lost as the same seed by roughly the same margin in far fewer possessions.
Bad Wisconsin under Gard is our barometer now? Sheesh, I'd personally like to shoot well above that.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2019, 01:23:40 PM »
Actually the committee said we were the top 5 seed.

Getting destroyed by mid-major Murray State is a fact. "Consensus most over-seeded team in the tournament" is an opinion.
Opinion?  No.  Hyperbole?  Sure.  We were seen as an overrated 5 seed.  Googling "overrated teams march madness 2019", and we show up in a majority of those articles.

Also your committee comment makes no sense.  The committee agrees with the committee's decision to make us a 5 seed therefore we weren't seen as overrated?  The term "overrated" refers to how we were initially "rated" by the committee.  Surely you understood that.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 01:25:11 PM by 5DollarPitcher »

Pakuni

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2019, 01:31:03 PM »
Let's have a little context and honesty around this statement:

Steele took over a team that lost JP Macura, Traveon Blueitt, Kaiser Gates, Sean O'Mara, Kareem Kanter.  He inherited less than Wojo did.
]

Nope. Steele had two starters from a #1 seed (Marshall and Goodin), along with 6thman/former top 30 recruit Paul Scruggs, as part of his returning team.
The only player Wojo had returning who averaged more than 15 mpg the previous season was your pal Derrick Wilson. Next was Juan Anderson.

Really, it's not close.

Lazar's Headband

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2019, 01:31:40 PM »
Ja Morant was a 1st team AA, #2 pick in the NBA draft, and a leading contender for ROY.

I feel like too many people are ignoring these facts.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2019, 01:33:23 PM »
Opinion?  No.  Hyperbole?  Sure.  We were seen as an overrated 5 seed.  Googling "overrated teams march madness 2019", and we show up in a majority of those articles.


A collection of opinions is still an opinion.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

manesworld

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2019, 01:35:54 PM »
Let's have a little context and honesty around this statement:

Steele took over a team that lost JP Macura, Traveon Blueitt, Kaiser Gates, Sean O'Mara, Kareem Kanter.  He inherited less than Wojo did.

It is what it is - Steele and Jordan have done a better job than Wojo.  No need to lie about it, distort realities, and make excuses. 

We are Top 30 right now, and this is acceptable for MU given the reality that Wojo is a mediocre bench coach.  Hopefully we can maintain this 30ish ranking for the year and get a 5/6 seed in tournament.  I'd be happy with that.  Getting an NCAA win would be icing on the cake.

Context:

Wojo inherited a roster that included rising sophomore Deonte Burton who had averaged 7 points and 2 rebounds per game, rising senior Derrick Wilson who had just averaged 5 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists per game, rising sophomore JaJuan Johnson who had just averaged 4 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist per game, rising senior Juan Anderson who had just averaged 3 points, 3 rebounds, and 1 assist per game, rising junior Steve Taylor who had just averaged 2.5 points and 3 rebounds per game, rising sophomore John "Magic" Dawson who had just averaged 2 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist per game, rising redshirt freshman Duane Wilson who had just sat out the entire season with injury, and a half of a season from rising sophomore Luke Fischer who had just sat out after transferring from Indiana on a team that finished 6th in the Big East and missed the NIT (meaning the players that were playing in front of them were, well, not very good).  He also lost his entire recruiting class due to the fact that he had been recruiting to Duke and not to Marquette.

Steele inherited a roster that included rising junior Quentin Gooden who had just averaged 9 points, 3 rebounds, and 5 assists per game, rising sophomore Naji Marshall who had just averaged 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 2 assists per game, rising junior Tyrique Jones who had just averaged 7 points and 4.5 rebounds per game, rising sophomore Paul Scruggs who had just averaged 5 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists per game from a team that won the Big East and was a 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament (meaning the players in front of them were, well, very good).  He was able to keep 4 star (ESPN)/3 star (247) Keonte Kennedy and 3 star Dontarius James in his recruiting class given that he was recruiting them to Xavier the year before.

Context.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2019, 01:39:54 PM »
Wojo did manage to hang onto Sandy Cohen...but yeah.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2019, 01:41:05 PM »

A collection of opinions is still an opinion.
A collection of opinions (all of them being the same) is a different way to say "consensus" which is what I originally said.  Therefore since you're agreeing that "a collection of opinions had us as one of the most overrated teams in the tournament", my original statement was indeed a fact.

Its DJOver

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2019, 01:44:45 PM »
Oh good, were having this discussion again.  We going with what would have happened if Chones didn't leave, or what would have happened if Dom didn't get hurt tomorrow, since apparently some think that it will go differently the 87th time we have the same debate.  Spoiler alert: ners is going to dig in, never admit he wrong, and end up banned.  Herman will talk about how Wojo screwed over Deonte, and then everyone will give all the articles where he expressly says the opposite.  Can we lock this now?

Cheeks

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2019, 01:52:46 PM »
And were the consensus most over-seeded team in the tournament and blew the conference and got destroyed by a mid-major Murray State.

It would be disingenuous not to include all the facts.

Nope, not the consensus over seeded team. 
I wish Cybill Sheperd spelled her name Sybil.

Cheeks

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2019, 01:53:46 PM »
Alright..... hang the banner?  I really couldn't care less given the taste left in my mouth thinking about last season.


Then don’t think about.  Get out of the past.
I wish Cybill Sheperd spelled her name Sybil.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2019, 01:54:15 PM »
Alright..... hang the banner?  I really couldn't care less given the taste left in my mouth thinking about last season.

Have you ever thought about paying more than $5 for a pitcher? Might leave a better taste in your mouth.

manesworld

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2019, 01:54:58 PM »
Wojo did manage to hang onto Sandy Cohen...but yeah.

Sorry, forgot about that.

MUCam

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2019, 02:13:22 PM »
Probably could have stopped at the title.

Can this please get some love?

If hilarious Scoop One Liners was a NCAA Bracket, I'd rank this a solidly overrated five seed.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2019, 02:41:58 PM »
Lol! Steele inherited less than Wojo? Good God you are even more delusional than anyone thought.

In what way have Steele or Jordan been better than Wojo? Because KenPom says they’re better than us 8 games into the year? The horror!

Well, Steele in Year 2 has Xavier checking in at 27 in KenPom.  Wojo finished 97th.  So..there's that.  #delusional




manesworld

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2019, 02:42:51 PM »
Well, Steele in Year 2 has Xavier checking in at 27 in KenPom.  Wojo finished 97th.  So..there's that.  #delusional

Cancel the season.  Hand Louisville the National Title.  Give Izzo and K another Final Four.  No need to play this one out on the court folks.

Glad you backed away from your claim that Wojo inherited more than Steele did, LOL!  Talk about being delusional, distorting reality, and lying...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 02:45:51 PM by wadesworld »

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2019, 03:06:42 PM »
Let's also remember that Steele was an assistant.  Always easier to take over a program as an assistant.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

PTM

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2019, 03:11:16 PM »
Nope. This is set in stone.

This is the way.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

Elonsmusk

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Re: Did you guys ever think?
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2019, 03:12:57 PM »


[/quote]
Is one of the Hausers going to be sitting on the wing wide open waving for the ball while Markus continues to dribble with his head down and 2+ defenders completely swarming him?

Painful to watch 4 guys play as a team and one hunt his shot no matter what. I’d guess about 40% of his passes come when he’s jumping and realizes it’s impossible to get his shot off so he has to throw a last second pass out of a shot.

Tip of the cap to you on this one Wades - from the thread titled "How many times"  If only our head coach could have seen the potential problems this foreshadowed.  Even you saw it.  But nope, he instead encouraged more shooting by Markus via "the ultimate green light." 

End of the day Wojo's most die hard supporters were sure Year 5 would be the year patience would be rewarded and all would be revealed - what it revealed was an epic failure of leadership.