OT Memphis

[Nukem2]

No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.

The timing was a LOT closer than that.

[lawdog77]

No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.

it is.my understanding, that does not matter. Penny is a booster=wiseman cant go to memphis ince Penny paid for the move.  Would not have mattered if penny became coach.

[Jay Bee]

I get that. I don't agree with their rule.

Gotcha. So you've realized your rage re: a 2008 fake thing that never happened that you were barking about is no good, so the argument is now "I hate the rules"

[brewcity77]

I have to side with the NCAA on this. If I paid $11,000 for Dawson Garcia to move to Milwaukee, that would be a clear violation. And if he committed to Marquette, as a booster, that would be a pretty clear payback.

Maybe Penny didn't donate in a decade, but he made a single donation likely larger than any of the posters on this board in their lifetime. He's still a booster, he's an alum, he has to know he can't provide benefits to a player and deliver that player to that program.

Further, even if he wasn't coach at the time, Hardaway was hired specifically because Memphis thought he could deliver players. Now he's delivering a player that he was paying the year before that same player committed to the program he's given seven figures to?

It doesn't get any more basic than this.

[Nukem2]

I have to side with the NCAA on this. If I paid $11,000 for Dawson Garcia to move to Milwaukee, that would be a clear violation. And if he committed to Marquette, as a booster, that would be a pretty clear payback.

Maybe Penny didn't donate in a decade, but he made a single donation likely larger than any of the posters on this board in their lifetime. He's still a booster, he's an alum, he has to know he can't provide benefits to a player and deliver that player to that program.

Further, even if he wasn't coach at the time, Hardaway was hired specifically because Memphis thought he could deliver players. Now he's delivering a player that he was paying the year before that same player committed to the program he's given seven figures to?

It doesn't get any more basic than this.

Yup.

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[Marcus92]

What does 2008 have to do with anything? That's got to be a mistake. Every article I've seen states that Wiseman moved to Memphis during the summer of 2017.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28037071/ncaa-rules-memphis-james-wiseman-ineligible-top-prospect-gets-stay-play-friday

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2019/11/08/penny-hardaway-james-wiseman-memphis-tigers-ncaa-booster/2534957001/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2019/11/08/james-wiseman-ineligible-penny-hardaway-memphis-tigers-basketball/2537250001/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So what.  That's what the membership agreed upon. Rules are rules.

Lamest phrase ever.  Bad rules are bad rules.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I have to side with the NCAA on this. If I paid $11,000 for Dawson Garcia to move to Milwaukee, that would be a clear violation. And if he committed to Marquette, as a booster, that would be a pretty clear payback.

Maybe Penny didn't donate in a decade, but he made a single donation likely larger than any of the posters on this board in their lifetime. He's still a booster, he's an alum, he has to know he can't provide benefits to a player and deliver that player to that program.

Further, even if he wasn't coach at the time, Hardaway was hired specifically because Memphis thought he could deliver players. Now he's delivering a player that he was paying the year before that same player committed to the program he's given seven figures to?

It doesn't get any more basic than this.

Good lord no. It's so "basic" you had to type three paragraphs to get there? 

[brewcity77]

Good lord no. It's so "basic" you had to type three paragraphs to get there?

Please.

Hardaway is a seven figure lifetime donor & the most famous alum of Memphis. In 2017 he paid $11,000 for James Wiseman to move into his school district so he could coach him in high school. In 2018 he took the Memphis job and delivered the player he had started paying for the year before.

It's a simple, straight line story of a coach buying a player. I'm happy to call the NCAA on their BS, but as long as paying players is against the rules, this is a blatant, obvious, no-brainer violation. Open and shut. You can argue they should allow direct payments, or schools should be able to provide signing bonuses, but as the rules are constructed, the ONLY argument against this is "the NCAA sucks, so there!!!" And frankly, that's a bad faith argument.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Please.

Hardaway is a seven figure lifetime donor & the most famous alum of Memphis. In 2017 he paid $11,000 for James Wiseman to move into his school district so he could coach him in high school. In 2018 he took the Memphis job and delivered the player he had started paying for the year before.

It's a simple, straight line story of a coach buying a player. I'm happy to call the NCAA on their BS, but as long as paying players is against the rules, this is a blatant, obvious, no-brainer violation. Open and shut. You can argue they should allow direct payments, or schools should be able to provide signing bonuses, but as the rules are constructed, the ONLY argument against this is "the NCAA sucks, so there!!!" And frankly, that's a bad faith argument.

You may want to type less and read more because that's not the argument I made.

[brewcity77]

You may want to type less and read more because that's not the argument I made.

Arguing he's not a booster is a bad faith argument when you consider the definition of a booster, who Penny is, and how much money he's given. Arguing that the $11,000 that allowed Wiseman to move to Memphis and play for Penny Hardaway didn't have any impact on Wiseman choosing to follow Hardaway to Memphis is naive at best.

The only cogent argument you can make is not liking the rules. That's it. But there rules exist, and this is about as obvious a breach as you'll ever see.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Arguing he's not a booster is a bad faith argument when you consider the definition of a booster, who Penny is, and how much money he's given. Arguing that the $11,000 that allowed Wiseman to move to Memphis and play for Penny Hardaway didn't have any impact on Wiseman choosing to follow Hardaway to Memphis is naive at best.

The only cogent argument you can make is not liking the rules. That's it. But there rules exist, and this is about as obvious a breach as you'll ever see.

It isn't an obvious breach given the timing of the benefit.  That's the point. Sorry you can't see that.

[Cheeks]

Not sure I follow why it matters that the last donation was in 2008 until this loan in 2017.   The action in question happened in 2017, not 2008.

NCAA gets so much grief, even in a case like this and it just boggles my mind.  What is the NCAA supposed to do?  Imagine Pandora's box on this stuff if this were allowed and not policed.  I've never quite understood why some here want the corruption to continue and pretend if you just let it all happen that somehow eliminates the corruption.

[MU82]

Bilas, who is no NCAA-lover, just took NCAA's side on ESPN. Said it looks like an obvious extra benefits situation and said it was highly unusual for Memphis to play Wiseman. He doubts the TRO will be upheld. He said NCAA rules clearly prohibit schools from getting this kind of TRO.

Bilas said Memphis could face numerous penalties. Worse case scenario, Wiseman is declared ineligible for the season and Memphis is barred from the NCAA tourney.

[Jay Bee]

It isn't an obvious breach given the timing of the benefit.  That's the point. Sorry you can't see that.

It is. Stop claiming 2008

[muguru]

You may want to type less and read more because that's not the argument I made.

You haven't made an argument other than "the rule is dumb". And you try to tell everyone they have to feel the same way. Here i will do you a favor...here is the booster rule, I will GUARANTEE you you have ZERO logical argument for your position other than the rule is "dumb" and Fluffy/Sultan doesn't like it so it MUST be changed. If you can lay out a logical, well thought out answer as to why this situation SHOULD be allowed, we'd all listen...but you have nothing..

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as "representatives of the institution's athletic interests," include anyone who has:

    Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
    Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university's athletics programs.
    Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
    Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
    Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
    Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
    Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.

Once an individual is identified as a "representative of the institution's athletics interests," the person retains that identity forever.

[Billy Hoyle]

No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.

Less than one year. This is Penny's second season at Memphis, hired in March 2018. Wise man moved to Memphis in summer 2017.  And, going into 2017 it was known Tubby was a dead man walking and Penny wanted the job. The hire was made 5 days after Tubby was fired.

I can only imagine the meltdown the "they did nothing wrong, F the NCAA" crowd would be if this were Bucky or a fellow Big East school.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You haven't made an argument other than "the rule is dumb". And you try to tell everyone they have to feel the same way. Here i will do you a favor...here is the booster rule, I will GUARANTEE you you have ZERO logical argument for your position other than the rule is "dumb" and Fluffy/Sultan doesn't like it so it MUST be changed. If you can lay out a logical, well thought out answer as to why this situation SHOULD be allowed, we'd all listen...but you have nothing..

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as "representatives of the institution's athletic interests," include anyone who has:

    Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
    Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university's athletics programs.
    Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
    Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
    Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
    Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
    Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.

Once an individual is identified as a "representative of the institution's athletics interests," the person retains that identity forever.

I have laid out my position in a logical way but...SURPRISE...you fail to comprehend it.

[Uncle Rico]

Free James Wiseman

[muguru]

I have laid out my position in a logical way but...SURPRISE...you fail to comprehend it.

No you haven't..all you have said is that the rule is dumb, and given the timing of the rule etc etc. It is still by definition, a violation. 8 years ago, last year, 5 months ago. It doesn't matter. Once that contribution is made you are a booster for life, as the rule states. Everyone that gives money to a school knows this, specifically one who attended that school. Season ticket holders are boosters. Once you buy season tickets, you are a booster for life, even if you only have those tickets for a year. It's just the way it is.

Whether the rule is dumb or not(by your definition), isn't relevant at all...they still must be followed. Same with dumb laws. Must be followed or suffer the consequences.

James Wiseman isn't being harmed in any way by this...he is still going to be the #1 pick in net year's draft whether he plays for Memphis or not. And in fact, if he isn't allowed to play anymore(i'd be shocked if he is), he can go play overseas right now and start making money. You should like that, you want the players to be able to do that..he can now.

[🏀]

There are better hills to fight for than this one.

[MUDPT]

He should have adopted him like in The Blind Side and then everything would be okay.

[rocket surgeon]

I have laid out my position in a logical way but...SURPRISE...you fail to comprehend it.

  you have got to be trolling and/or still drinking.  it's always happy hour somewhere i guess 

[🏀]

https://www.youtube.com/v/qp8bGdGqTAo

He should have adopted him like in The Blind Side and then everything would be okay.

Always thought Big Ern was on to something.