MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuMark on November 08, 2019, 04:50:57 PM
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https://twitter.com/suduupadhyay/status/1192934548830601216?s=21
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Free James Wiseman!
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No surprise here. penny is shady
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https://twitter.com/munzly/status/1192941511341531136?s=21
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Popcorn!
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Dumb ruling by NCAA. Figures..
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Dumb ruling by NCAA. Figures..
Is Penny suspended? Nah, he’s still collecting checks
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Is Penny suspended? Nah, he’s still collecting checks
He shouldn’t be. He paid for the move before he was coach because he was declared a booster by making a gift back in 2008. Absurd.
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He shouldn’t be. He paid for the move before he was coach because he was declared a boosted by making a gift back in 2008. Absurd.
Oh, I agree 100%. It has been a banner day for the NCAA. What a laughingstock
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i wonder if wise man turned down more money from kentucky to play for penny. does this constitute his 1 token year of college ball to make him draft eligible?
penny was considered a "booster" when he paid his family's moving expenses. boo$ter of what?
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He shouldn’t be. He paid for the move before he was coach because he was declared a booster by making a gift back in 2008. Absurd.
on the surface, it is a good ruling. He seems to have paid for the move solely to get Wiseman to come to Memphis. How is it absurd?
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i wonder if wise man turned down more money from kentucky to play for penny. does this constitute his 1 token year of college ball to make him draft eligible?
penny was considered a "booster" when he paid his family's moving expenses. boo$ter of what?
Penny donated a million dollars to Memphis in 2008. That makes him a booster.
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on the surface, it is a good ruling. He seems to have paid for the move solely to get Wiseman to come to Memphis. How is it absurd?
Because he wasn’t coach for the University of Memphis at the time. He paid to move him to Memphis to play for his high school team, which was not a violation (apparently) of Tennessee high school rules.
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Penny donated a million dollars to Memphis in 2008. That makes him a booster.
i understand, but ain't they sposed to help their intended beneficiary?
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Penny should have checked with the NCAA first
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Penny should have checked with the NCAA first
He was declared eligible in May.
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With full disclosure?
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He was declared eligible in May.
But more info has come to light...
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He is playing tonight. Game on ESPNU.
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LOL is any surprised it was a judge in Memphis that granted the restraining order?? Jay Bilas even says he won't likely win this in court and Memphis is going to have to vacate any games he plays in
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LOL is any surprised it was a judge in Memphis that granted the restraining order?? Jay Bilas even says he won't likely win this in court and Memphis is going to have to vacate any games he plays in
Free James Wiseman!
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Penny is a former player, a mega donor, and currently the head coach...and people are questioning why he was deemed a “booster”?
The NCAA gets lots of things wrong, but this isn’t one of them.
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But more info has come to light...
That he made a gift 11 years ago. Irrelevant and dumb ruling.
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Penny is a former player, a mega donor, and people are questioning why he was deemed a “booster”?
The NCAA gets lots of things wrong, but this isn’t one of them.
False. Absurdly false.
Last gave 11 years ago. Shouldn’t be relevant.
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False.
Naive.
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Penny is a former player, a mega donor, and people are questioning why he was deemed a “booster”?
The NCAA gets lots of things wrong, but this isn’t one of them.
The NCAA gets blamed for a lot of things their membership wants or for things out of their control, like the NBA refusing to take HS players.
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Naive.
I’m not naive in the least. I just don’t see a problem with someone paying to help someone move regardless of them being declared a booster based on a gift from years ago. Heck I don’t have a problem based in a gift made last year.
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I’m not naive in the least. I just don’t see a problem with someone paying to help someone move regardless of them being declared a booster based on a gift from years ago. Heck I don’t have a problem based in a gift made last year.
A former player and donor paid to move the kid to Memphis...and suddenly the kid decides to play hoops for said player/donor’s school. That is EXACTLY the type of thing the NCAA should be preventing.
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A former player and donor paid to move the kid to Memphis...and suddenly the kid decides to play hoops for said player/donor’s school. That is EXACTLY the type of thing the NCAA should be preventing.
Why
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Why
Because schools with wealthy boosters would otherwise start “recruiting” promising kids by moving them and their families closer to their schools...and likely to very nice houses.
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I’m not naive in the least. I just don’t see a problem with someone paying to help someone move regardless of them being declared a booster based on a gift from years ago. Heck I don’t have a problem based in a gift made last year.
Hey Mr Recruit (last year example), I hear your car is broken...here’s $8k loan for a new one...pay me back at your convenience.
Vs
Hey Mr Recruit, heard your family needs help moving. Here is $8K loan to do that...pay me back at your convenience.
In both scenarios, kid ends up at that school. Did money influence that decision? That is fundamentally the problem. Now, the timing of this is where it gets very squishy. Is a loan from 10 years ago the same as one from last year?
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I’m not naive in the least. I just don’t see a problem with someone paying to help someone move regardless of them being declared a booster based on a gift from years ago. Heck I don’t have a problem based in a gift made last year.
the $11,500 in moving expenses were from 2017
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Penny donated a million dollars to Memphis in 2008. That makes him a booster.
Word is he just changed his name to Million Hardaway.
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He shouldn’t be. He paid for the move before he was coach because he was declared a booster by making a gift back in 2008. Absurd.
Lies
You’re being an idiot, again
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So in 2008 , the kid was 7 years old. Penny has some serious recruiting skills!
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So in 2008 , the kid was 7 years old. Penny has some serious recruiting skills!
It was 2017 or 2018.
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You want 100% anarchy that's why...no rules, no laws, free reign. Obviously you're a socialist. That explains a crap ton about you.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1g1o85.gif)
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So in 2008 , the kid was 7 years old. Penny has some serious recruiting skills!
Remember, many people are idiots and even those who aren’t make mistakes. We ain’t talkin no 2008 here
This is flat out dirty
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LOL is any surprised it was a judge in Memphis that granted the restraining order?? Jay Bilas even says he won't likely win this in court and Memphis is going to have to vacate any games he plays in
Did you think a person who lives in Memphis and a school located in Memphis should have filed their petition in New York?
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A former player and donor paid to move the kid to Memphis...and suddenly the kid decides to play hoops for said player/donor’s school. That is EXACTLY the type of thing the NCAA should be preventing.
Nope. NCAA overreach again.
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Nope. NCAA overreach again.
We get it. You are so accustomed to criticizing the NCAA that you’ve lost all common sense on the subject.
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We get it. You are so accustomed to criticizing the NCAA that you’ve lost all common sense on the subject.
He never had any to begin with. I mean why does he even come here anyway?? Not a single person wants to read what he says. It was so nice when he was gone for awhile. This board was great..ever since he came back...well..
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https://twitter.com/InsidetheNCAA/status/1192975455453896706?s=20
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He never had any to begin with. I mean why does he even come here anyway?? Not a single person wants to read what he says. It was so nice when he was gone for awhile. This board was great..ever since he came back...well..
Pot meet kettle...
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Remember, many people are idiots and even those who aren’t make mistakes. We ain’t talkin no 2008 here
This is flat out dirty
If it is truly only a few years, then absolutely. I was going with Sultan's 2008 year which gave me pause. A few years ago, kid is projected then to be a stud recruit....absolutely the NCAA needs to police this.
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If it is truly only a few years, then absolutely. I was going with Sultan's 2008 year which gave me pause. A few years ago, kid is projected then to be a stud recruit....absolutely the NCAA needs to police this.
espn stating it was 2017
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Sultan believes anything with a blue Checkmark. No wonder StN
sucks huge d
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Ban dis guy. ^^^^
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False. Absurdly false.
Last gave 11 years ago. Shouldn’t be relevant.
As a former player he’s a booster.
As a donor he’s a booster.
Penny knew what he was doing and considering the machinations going in behind the scenes likely knew he’d get the Memphis job. The NCAA nailed this one correctly.
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We get it. You are so accustomed to criticizing the NCAA that you’ve lost all common sense on the subject.
Sorry but no. It was a ridiculous ruling.
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Penny is going to be in for a rude awakening. I’m sure he can get away with whatever he wants at Memphis because of who he is, but that’s not how it’s going to work with the NCAA. He’s taking the approach of Arizona, LSU, Auburn, etc. but their wins will be vacated and Wiseman will be ruled ineligible before the season is over. If this was going to take years to settle sure, vacated wins don’t matter so take your shot at a Natty. But this won’t take years, Wiseman will be gone, and they’ll be vacating wins they would’ve had even without him.
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Sorry but no. It was a ridiculous ruling.
What’s ridiculous about it? Coach who is campaigning to get the Memphis job, who is also a booster, pays to get the kid to move to Memphis and the kid spurns blue bloods to play for said coach and program (a program with a history of shadiness).
All purely a coincidence I’m sure.
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So penny paid for him to move to play at his HS then gets him to come to Memphis. Looks like penny’s time at Memphis coming to an end soon
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What’s ridiculous about it? Coach who is campaigning to get the Memphis job, who is also a booster, pays to get the kid to move to Memphis and the kid spurns blue bloods to play for said coach and program (a program with a history of shadiness).
All purely a coincidence I’m sure.
I have stated why. I think it is insane that he is considered a booster cause he played for them and gave a gift ten plus years ago. And the benefit was paid two years ago before he was their coach.
Not to mention the benefit had nothing at all to do with why he went to Memphis in the first place.
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Is Crean considered a booster to MU? Or do you actually have to pay the money?
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So penny paid for him to move to play at his HS then gets him to come to Memphis. Looks like penny’s time at Memphis coming to an end soon
So Penny knew in the summer of 2017 that Tubby Smith would last only two seasons at Memphis and he'd be hired to replace him?
Heck, if that's true Penny needs to quit wasting his time coaching and go make a billion dollars in Vegas.
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I have stated why. I think it is insane that he is considered a booster cause he played for them and gave a gift ten plus years ago. And the benefit was paid two years ago before he was their coach.
Not to mention the benefit had nothing at all to do with why he went to Memphis in the first place.
Dipcrap. This wasn’t ten years ago
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Is Crean considered a booster to MU? Or do you actually have to pay the money?
Crean's considered a "silent donor".
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Dipcrap. This wasn’t ten years ago
His last gift to Memphis athletics was over ten years before he provided the benefit. This is according to what I read last hour. Do you have other info?
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I have stated why. I think it is insane that he is considered a booster cause he played for them and gave a gift ten plus years ago. And the benefit was paid two years ago before he was their coach.
Not to mention the benefit had nothing at all to do with why he went to Memphis in the first place.
I don’t see any way Wiseman ends up going to Memphis if he doesn’t move to Memphis.
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Crean's considered a "silent donor".
That $100,000 soccer donation was quite the public announcement, assuming he'll cut that check any day now?
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Because he wasn’t coach for the University of Memphis at the time. He paid to move him to Memphis to play for his high school team, which was not a violation (apparently) of Tennessee high school rules.
Penny was also an alumni and player for Memphis so he was a booster for the university.
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I don’t see any way Wiseman ends up going to Memphis if he doesn’t move to Memphis.
So? Going to Memphis wasn’t a condition for the benefit.
Of course if Memphis hires his dad to be a coach, pays him a salary, and moves him to Memphis, that’s fine.
But providing him with $11,000 to move there two years before he becomes coach isn’t.
Failed logic.
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Penny was also an alumni and player for Memphis so he was a booster for the university.
That doesn't make him a booster
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That $100,000 soccer donation was quite the public announcement, assuming he'll cut that check any day now?
Well, Jamil did wind up at MU eventually...the check must be delayed at the Penny Hardaway Bank branch.
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So Penny knew in the summer of 2017 that Tubby Smith would last only two seasons at Memphis and he'd be hired to replace him?
Heck, if that's true Penny needs to quit wasting his time coaching and go make a billion dollars in Vegas.
so you’re saying it’s just a coincidence that he got him to come to Memphis?
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So? Going to Memphis wasn’t a condition for the benefit.
Of course if Memphis hires his dad to be a coach, pays him a salary, and moves him to Memphis, that’s fine.
But providing him with $11,000 to move there two years before he becomes coach isn’t.
Failed logic.
So it had quite a bit to do with Wiseman going to Memphis. If he doesn’t live in Memphis, which Penny paid to help happen, there’s almost surely less than a 0.001% chance Wiseman goes to Memphis to play college basketball. It’s just about a certainty that it’s the only thing that made Memphis getting Wiseman a possibility.
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So it had quite a bit to do with Wiseman going to Memphis. If he doesn’t live in Memphis, which Penny paid to help happen, there’s almost surely less than a 0.001% chance Wiseman goes to Memphis to play college basketball. It’s just about a certainty that it’s the only thing that made Memphis getting Wiseman a possibility.
Ok I get that... but who cares?
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His last gift to Memphis athletics was over ten years before he provided the benefit. This is according to what I read last hour. Do you have other info?
Yes. Do you know the definition of a booster?
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Ok I get that... but who cares?
You do, but not the membership of the NCAA.
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Ok I get that... but who cares?
Let me help
http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/role-boosters
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Let me help
http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/role-boosters
I get that. I don’t agree with their rule.
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I get that. I don’t agree with their rule.
So what. That’s what the membership agreed upon. Rules are rules.
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I get that. I don’t agree with their rule.
I don’t agree with every speed limit, but I am smart enough to know that if I violate it, I am subject to getting a ticket.
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so you’re saying it’s just a coincidence that he got him to come to Memphis?
No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.
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No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.
The timing was a LOT closer than that.
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No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.
it is.my understanding, that does not matter. Penny is a booster=wiseman cant go to memphis ince Penny paid for the move. Would not have mattered if penny became coach.
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I get that. I don’t agree with their rule.
Gotcha. So you’ve realized your rage re: a 2008 fake thing that never happened that you were barking about is no good, so the argument is now “I hate the rules”
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I have to side with the NCAA on this. If I paid $11,000 for Dawson Garcia to move to Milwaukee, that would be a clear violation. And if he committed to Marquette, as a booster, that would be a pretty clear payback.
Maybe Penny didn't donate in a decade, but he made a single donation likely larger than any of the posters on this board in their lifetime. He's still a booster, he's an alum, he has to know he can't provide benefits to a player and deliver that player to that program.
Further, even if he wasn't coach at the time, Hardaway was hired specifically because Memphis thought he could deliver players. Now he's delivering a player that he was paying the year before that same player committed to the program he's given seven figures to?
It doesn't get any more basic than this.
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I have to side with the NCAA on this. If I paid $11,000 for Dawson Garcia to move to Milwaukee, that would be a clear violation. And if he committed to Marquette, as a booster, that would be a pretty clear payback.
Maybe Penny didn't donate in a decade, but he made a single donation likely larger than any of the posters on this board in their lifetime. He's still a booster, he's an alum, he has to know he can't provide benefits to a player and deliver that player to that program.
Further, even if he wasn't coach at the time, Hardaway was hired specifically because Memphis thought he could deliver players. Now he's delivering a player that he was paying the year before that same player committed to the program he's given seven figures to?
It doesn't get any more basic than this.
Yup.
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Crean sucks
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What does 2008 have to do with anything? That's got to be a mistake. Every article I've seen states that Wiseman moved to Memphis during the summer of 2017.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28037071/ncaa-rules-memphis-james-wiseman-ineligible-top-prospect-gets-stay-play-friday (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28037071/ncaa-rules-memphis-james-wiseman-ineligible-top-prospect-gets-stay-play-friday)
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2019/11/08/penny-hardaway-james-wiseman-memphis-tigers-ncaa-booster/2534957001/ (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2019/11/08/penny-hardaway-james-wiseman-memphis-tigers-ncaa-booster/2534957001/)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2019/11/08/james-wiseman-ineligible-penny-hardaway-memphis-tigers-basketball/2537250001/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2019/11/08/james-wiseman-ineligible-penny-hardaway-memphis-tigers-basketball/2537250001/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories)
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So what. That’s what the membership agreed upon. Rules are rules.
Lamest phrase ever. Bad rules are bad rules.
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I have to side with the NCAA on this. If I paid $11,000 for Dawson Garcia to move to Milwaukee, that would be a clear violation. And if he committed to Marquette, as a booster, that would be a pretty clear payback.
Maybe Penny didn't donate in a decade, but he made a single donation likely larger than any of the posters on this board in their lifetime. He's still a booster, he's an alum, he has to know he can't provide benefits to a player and deliver that player to that program.
Further, even if he wasn't coach at the time, Hardaway was hired specifically because Memphis thought he could deliver players. Now he's delivering a player that he was paying the year before that same player committed to the program he's given seven figures to?
It doesn't get any more basic than this.
Good lord no. It’s so “basic” you had to type three paragraphs to get there?
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Good lord no. It’s so “basic” you had to type three paragraphs to get there?
Please.
Hardaway is a seven figure lifetime donor & the most famous alum of Memphis. In 2017 he paid $11,000 for James Wiseman to move into his school district so he could coach him in high school. In 2018 he took the Memphis job and delivered the player he had started paying for the year before.
It's a simple, straight line story of a coach buying a player. I'm happy to call the NCAA on their BS, but as long as paying players is against the rules, this is a blatant, obvious, no-brainer violation. Open and shut. You can argue they should allow direct payments, or schools should be able to provide signing bonuses, but as the rules are constructed, the ONLY argument against this is "the NCAA sucks, so there!!!" And frankly, that's a bad faith argument.
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Please.
Hardaway is a seven figure lifetime donor & the most famous alum of Memphis. In 2017 he paid $11,000 for James Wiseman to move into his school district so he could coach him in high school. In 2018 he took the Memphis job and delivered the player he had started paying for the year before.
It's a simple, straight line story of a coach buying a player. I'm happy to call the NCAA on their BS, but as long as paying players is against the rules, this is a blatant, obvious, no-brainer violation. Open and shut. You can argue they should allow direct payments, or schools should be able to provide signing bonuses, but as the rules are constructed, the ONLY argument against this is "the NCAA sucks, so there!!!" And frankly, that's a bad faith argument.
You may want to type less and read more because that’s not the argument I made.
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You may want to type less and read more because that’s not the argument I made.
Arguing he's not a booster is a bad faith argument when you consider the definition of a booster, who Penny is, and how much money he's given. Arguing that the $11,000 that allowed Wiseman to move to Memphis and play for Penny Hardaway didn't have any impact on Wiseman choosing to follow Hardaway to Memphis is naive at best.
The only cogent argument you can make is not liking the rules. That's it. But there rules exist, and this is about as obvious a breach as you'll ever see.
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Arguing he's not a booster is a bad faith argument when you consider the definition of a booster, who Penny is, and how much money he's given. Arguing that the $11,000 that allowed Wiseman to move to Memphis and play for Penny Hardaway didn't have any impact on Wiseman choosing to follow Hardaway to Memphis is naive at best.
The only cogent argument you can make is not liking the rules. That's it. But there rules exist, and this is about as obvious a breach as you'll ever see.
It isn’t an obvious breach given the timing of the benefit. That’s the point. Sorry you can’t see that.
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Not sure I follow why it matters that the last donation was in 2008 until this loan in 2017. The action in question happened in 2017, not 2008.
NCAA gets so much grief, even in a case like this and it just boggles my mind. What is the NCAA supposed to do? Imagine Pandora’s box on this stuff if this were allowed and not policed. I’ve never quite understood why some here want the corruption to continue and pretend if you just let it all happen that somehow eliminates the corruption.
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Bilas, who is no NCAA-lover, just took NCAA's side on ESPN. Said it looks like an obvious extra benefits situation and said it was highly unusual for Memphis to play Wiseman. He doubts the TRO will be upheld. He said NCAA rules clearly prohibit schools from getting this kind of TRO.
Bilas said Memphis could face numerous penalties. Worse case scenario, Wiseman is declared ineligible for the season and Memphis is barred from the NCAA tourney.
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It isn’t an obvious breach given the timing of the benefit. That’s the point. Sorry you can’t see that.
It is. Stop claiming 2008
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You may want to type less and read more because that’s not the argument I made.
You haven't made an argument other than "the rule is dumb". And you try to tell everyone they have to feel the same way. Here i will do you a favor...here is the booster rule, I will GUARANTEE you you have ZERO logical argument for your position other than the rule is "dumb" and Fluffy/Sultan doesn't like it so it MUST be changed. If you can lay out a logical, well thought out answer as to why this situation SHOULD be allowed, we'd all listen...but you have nothing..
Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:
Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.
Once an individual is identified as a “representative of the institution’s athletics interests,” the person retains that identity forever.
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No, I'm saying it's a coincidence that the Memphis job came open two years after Wiseman moved to Memphis.
Less than one year. This is Penny’s second season at Memphis, hired in March 2018. Wise man moved to Memphis in summer 2017. And, going into 2017 it was known Tubby was a dead man walking and Penny wanted the job. The hire was made 5 days after Tubby was fired.
I can only imagine the meltdown the “they did nothing wrong, F the NCAA” crowd would be if this were Bucky or a fellow Big East school.
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You haven't made an argument other than "the rule is dumb". And you try to tell everyone they have to feel the same way. Here i will do you a favor...here is the booster rule, I will GUARANTEE you you have ZERO logical argument for your position other than the rule is "dumb" and Fluffy/Sultan doesn't like it so it MUST be changed. If you can lay out a logical, well thought out answer as to why this situation SHOULD be allowed, we'd all listen...but you have nothing..
Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:
Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.
Once an individual is identified as a “representative of the institution’s athletics interests,” the person retains that identity forever.
I have laid out my position in a logical way but...SURPRISE...you fail to comprehend it.
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Free James Wiseman
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I have laid out my position in a logical way but...SURPRISE...you fail to comprehend it.
No you haven't..all you have said is that the rule is dumb, and given the timing of the rule etc etc. It is still by definition, a violation. 8 years ago, last year, 5 months ago. It doesn't matter. Once that contribution is made you are a booster for life, as the rule states. Everyone that gives money to a school knows this, specifically one who attended that school. Season ticket holders are boosters. Once you buy season tickets, you are a booster for life, even if you only have those tickets for a year. It's just the way it is.
Whether the rule is dumb or not(by your definition), isn't relevant at all...they still must be followed. Same with dumb laws. Must be followed or suffer the consequences.
James Wiseman isn't being harmed in any way by this...he is still going to be the #1 pick in net year's draft whether he plays for Memphis or not. And in fact, if he isn't allowed to play anymore(i'd be shocked if he is), he can go play overseas right now and start making money. You should like that, you want the players to be able to do that..he can now.
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There are better hills to fight for than this one.
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He should have adopted him like in The Blind Side and then everything would be okay.
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I have laid out my position in a logical way but...SURPRISE...you fail to comprehend it.
you have got to be trolling and/or still drinking. it's always happy hour somewhere i guess
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https://www.youtube.com/v/qp8bGdGqTAo
He should have adopted him like in The Blind Side and then everything would be okay.
Always thought Big Ern was on to something.
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I find it remarkable that Wiseman wasn't ruled ineligible as a JR in HS. Penny paid $11,500 for his family to move to Memphis, the same time he started playing for his AAU program.
How did it cost $11,500 to move? Did they move the entire house? There was some serious shady stuff going on.
Memphis knew about this. It's what they bought into, and what they desired, after firing Tubby Smith. They wanted to get back to the Calipari-era at Memphis, and now will end up facing the same consequences that plagued the program with Derrick Rose - forfeited wins, likely probation, etc.
I don't have much sympathy for West Tennessee State Teachers College.
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CHEATERS. ONLY WAY THEY CAN WIN.
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I find it remarkable that Wiseman wasn't ruled ineligible as a JR in HS. Penny paid $11,500 for his family to move to Memphis, the same time he started playing for his AAU program.
How did it cost $11,500 to move? Did they move the entire house? There was some serious shady stuff going on.
Memphis knew about this. It's what they bought into, and what they desired, after firing Tubby Smith. They wanted to get back to the Calipari-era at Memphis, and now will end up facing the same consequences that plagued the program with Derrick Rose - forfeited wins, likely probation, etc.
I don't have much sympathy for West Tennessee State Teachers College.
Yep.
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The NCAA can’t be half pregnant...either pro or amateur. The fact they came down on Memphis...yet Miller, Wade, Pearl, and Self continue to coach and recruit unabated is a complete sham. Pick one.
Still waiting for summer to end.
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Lamest phrase ever. Bad rules are bad rules.
Fluff, your rant in this thread is sooooo way off. We get that you have an opinion, but that’s all it is.
TH should have known better. He did know better.
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The NCAA can’t be half pregnant...either pro or amateur. The fact they came down on Memphis...yet Miller, Wade, Pearl, and Self continue to coach and recruit unabated is a complete sham. Pick one.
Still waiting for summer to end.
Agreed. Ridiculous they've allowed those programs to skate so far.
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The NCAA can’t be half pregnant...either pro or amateur. The fact they came down on Memphis...yet Miller, Wade, Pearl, and Self continue to coach and recruit unabated is a complete sham. Pick one.
Still waiting for summer to end.
Each of those programs who had the involved players suspended (if they were still on the team). And, in case you (conveniently) forgot, the FBI has refused to share the information needed for the NCAA to nail those coaches.
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I find it remarkable that Wiseman wasn't ruled ineligible as a JR in HS. Penny paid $11,500 for his family to move to Memphis, the same time he started playing for his AAU program.
How did it cost $11,500 to move? Did they move the entire house? There was some serious shady stuff going on.
Memphis knew about this. It's what they bought into, and what they desired, after firing Tubby Smith. They wanted to get back to the Calipari-era at Memphis, and now will end up facing the same consequences that plagued the program with Derrick Rose - forfeited wins, likely probation, etc.
I don't have much sympathy for West Tennessee State Teachers College.
When Disney paid for my move from Wisconsin to California more than 20 years ago, it was about $10K so I don’t think the amount in question for the move is that far off.
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Agreed. Ridiculous they've allowed those programs to skate so far.
Sorry that it actually takes evidence and schools have the ability to respond, etc.
On one hand people are screaming due process for athletes and then seem to be saying no due process for others. The wheels of justice are slow.
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Each of those programs who had the involved players suspended (if they were still on the team). And, in case you (conveniently) forgot, the FBI has refused to share the information needed for the NCAA to nail those coaches.
+1000
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When Disney paid for my move from Wisconsin to California more than 20 years ago, it was about $10K so I don’t think the amount in question for the move is that far off.
Are you able to watch pac 12 games out there??
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Are you able to watch pac 12 games out there??
I’m looking forward to Jayce playing for us, even though you said he sucked after all the Utah games you watched.
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Mainly because I live in California and watch the pac 12 frequently. But that’s not relevant here.
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Mainly because I live in California and watch the pac 12 frequently. But that’s not relevant here.
I live in Calif, too....and I am looking forward to seeing how good JJ is despite your scouting assessment.
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https://amp.indystar.com/amp/2543926001?__twitter_impression=true (https://amp.indystar.com/amp/2543926001?__twitter_impression=true)
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https://amp.indystar.com/amp/2543926001?__twitter_impression=true (https://amp.indystar.com/amp/2543926001?__twitter_impression=true)
Well written.
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Well written.
If the NCAA did really know all of the facts, then I have flipped on this issue.
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are we just to believe wiseman did not know of hardaway's "act of kindness"? or did i miss the corroborating evidence other than the article stating as such? i don't mean to be a cold hearted sob-trust but verify
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What Doyel ignores is that Penny never should've recruited Wiseman to Memphis. Maybe the NCAA knew, but Penny also knew. Penny knew he was a booster, knew he had provided money to move the player, and knew that Wiseman's commitment to Memphis never would've happened if not the chain of events connecting him to Penny. Penny never should've gotten involved with Wiseman once he took the Memphis job. Wiseman may be innocent, but Hardaway most certainly is not.
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What Doyel ignores is that Penny never should've recruited Wiseman to Memphis. Maybe the NCAA knew, but Penny also knew. Penny knew he was a booster, knew he had provided money to move the player, and knew that Wiseman's commitment to Memphis never would've happened if not the chain of events connecting him to Penny. Penny never should've gotten involved with Wiseman once he took the Memphis job. Wiseman may be innocent, but Hardaway most certainly is not.
He didn’t ignore it. He addressed it directly.
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are we just to believe wiseman did not know of hardaway's "act of kindness"? or did i miss the corroborating evidence other than the article stating as such? i don't mean to be a cold hearted sob-trust but verify
That is the go to excuse for all of the athletes. I didn't know my parents were given suitcases full of cash by the school I agreed to play for.
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That is the go to excuse for all of the athletes. I didn't know my parents were given suitcases full of cash by the school I agreed to play for.
It’s not really relevant since the NCAA knew about it and declared him eligible anyway.
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It’s not really relevant since the NCAA knew about it and declared him eligible anyway.
And when the NCAA was alerted to the details surrounding the loan, in May, Memphis agreed to a joint review of the matter with the NCAA that proceeded over the past several months.
The result of that joint review was that he was ineligible.
Rules were violated. Fact.
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And when the NCAA was alerted to the details surrounding the loan, in May, Memphis agreed to a joint review of the matter with the NCAA that proceeded over the past several months.
The result of that joint review was that he was ineligible.
Rules were violated. Fact.
NCAA has discretion. Fact.
Should have used it. Fact.
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NCAA has discretion. Fact.
Should have used it. Opinion.
Fixed it for you. And 100% disagree. There was zero reason to use discretion here.
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Fixed it for you. And 100% disagree. There was zero reason to use discretion here.
If that’s your opinion, I know mine is sound.
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This wasn't even a close call. From all accounts this wasn't even a "loan" that was paid back. It was a large cash gift.
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This wasn't even a close call. From all accounts this wasn't even a "loan" that was paid back. It was a large cash gift.
No one is disputing this.
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This wasn't even a close call. From all accounts this wasn't even a "loan" that was paid back. It was a large cash gift.
There are folks here that are just fine with that...mercenary payments...justice and equality and something something
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It’s not really relevant since the NCAA knew about it and declared him eligible anyway.
forgot that cal left a few years earlier-just paying it forward?
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There are folks here that are just fine with that...mercenary payments...justice and equality and something something
not fine with that, but just saying.if the.NCAA knew and declared him eligble..not a good look
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Can we open a Scoop fund to start paying the best high school sophomores in the country to move to Milwaukee for high school? Would help in recruiting them.
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Can we open a Scoop fund to start paying the best high school sophomores in the country to move to Milwaukee for high school? Would help in recruiting them.
Probably help more to hire Antonio Curro as an assistant.
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Can we open a Scoop fund to start paying the best high school sophomores in the country to move to Milwaukee for high school? Would help in recruiting them.
Jalen Johnson moves without our help...and that didn’t do us much good
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Jalen Johnson moves without our help...and that didn’t do us much good
Moved for like 6 months.
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not fine with that, but just saying.if the.NCAA knew and declared him eligble..not a good look
Or additional info came to light...
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Or additional info came to light...
agree. But if the NCAA knew Hardaway paid for the move, and said he was eligible, what else is there?
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agree. But if the NCAA knew Hardaway paid for the move, and said he was eligible, what else is there?
That he made a gift...11 years ago. ::)
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That he made a gift...11 years ago. ::)
And graduated from the school. He’s a booster in every sense of the definition.
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If the NCAA did really know all of the facts, then I have flipped on this issue.
They may have thought they knew all of the facts and then learned there were more.
Was the NCAA wrong when they invalidated the ACT score of Derrick Rose after they originally cleared him as eligible? I mean, they did have all of the facts when they got the original score report. Were they wrong for what they did in that case?
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And graduated from the school. He’s a booster in every sense of the definition.
I guess. But the NCAA should exercise discretion because their ruling is ridiculous.
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They may have thought they knew all of the facts and then learned there were more.
Was the NCAA wrong when they invalidated the ACT score of Derrick Rose after they originally cleared him as eligible? I mean, they did have all of the facts when they got the original score report. Were they wrong for what they did in that case?
Yes. Because the NCAA has no business declaring who should be academically eligible to play.
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Yes. Because the NCAA has no business declaring who should be academically eligible to play.
“Officer, the government has no business declaring how fast I can go on these roads. Now be gone and stop impeding my fun.”
So you want a return to the 70’s and 80’s: no academic standards, illiterate student athletes (Dexter Manley), under the table payments everywhere. It’s so unfair athletes have to take certain courses and get at least a 2.3 gpa with a passable test score to play sports and get a scholarship. Such injustice there.
The members of the NCAA are the ones who established these rules. And now they get mad when their own rules are enforced against them. If they don’t want to follow them they can forfeit the tens of millions they get from the NCAA annually and go elsewhere.
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Each of those programs who had the involved players suspended (if they were still on the team). And, in case you (conveniently) forgot, the FBI has refused to share the information needed for the NCAA to nail those coaches.
You mean those wires taps already part of the public record? Due process? Lol. If there was a hint of me or my subordinate bribing a party for business, my arse would be on the street. Will Wade even lied about it to his superiors and got reinstated. Poor Scott Monarch and his t-shirt in comparison.
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Yes. The NCAA institutions should be allowed to admit whomever they wish. Especially considering the biases in standardized testing.
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The key words in the articles, assuming the media got it right, is “upon FURTHER investigation” which led to the decision. I take that as more info came to light
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Yes. The NCAA institutions should be allowed to admit whomever they wish. Especially considering the biases in standardized testing.
Sultan say whatever people want they should get. You are way too easy.
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Sultan say whatever people want they should get. You are way too easy.
Didn’t say that. Hyperbole is a tool of the weak.
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I guess. But the NCAA should exercise discretion because their ruling is ridiculous.
Discretion how though?? He's a booster, plain and simple. If you make an exception for him, then no one can be considered a "booster" and schools like Kansas walk scott free. Now if you want to use an instance where a season ticket holder shouldn't be considered a booster...I could see that. But he played for Memphis, now he coaches there, and he gave a family money, and the kid ended up playing at Memphis. I mean if that isn't the eact definition of a booster, I don't know what would be. Even if it was 11 years ago.
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Discretion how though?? He's a booster, plain and simple. If you make an exception for him, then no one can be considered a "booster" and schools like Kansas walk scott free. Now if you want to use an instance where a season ticket holder shouldn't be considered a booster...I could see that. But he played for Memphis, now he coaches there, and he gave a family money, and the kid ended up playing at Memphis. I mean if that isn't the eact definition of a booster, I don't know what would be. Even if it was 11 years ago.
Hypothetical. If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past? Even if they total less than $500?
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Yes. Because the NCAA has no business declaring who should be academically eligible to play.
According to MU82 and his constant UNC academic retort...he disagrees...will you two please get on the same page like you normally are.
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Hypothetical. If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past? Even if they total less than $500?
Hmm
Try this one
I am a Memphis alum, gave a star high school recruit ready for college enrollment in 18 months $11500 ( not $500 ) to move to the city I live in and would love for kid to go to my alma mater, even though I haven’t been named coach yet....though my name has already surfaced as a consideration to become Memphis head coach.
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Hypothetical. If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past? Even if they total less than $500?
That’s an apples to elephants comparison.
Penny is the most recognizable Memphis booster in the world. He played basketball for the program. Wiseman was already the top recruit in the country. Penny was paying him to move, not to stay in one place. And he was paying him to move so that he could coach him in basketball, not because he couldn’t afford his mortgage.
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Hypothetical. If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past? Even if they total less than $500?
Since the kid is not a recruitable prospect at the time there is nothing wrong with this scenario and the kid’s eligibility would not be affected.
Time for you to throw in the towel on this one and leave it to those who actually know.
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Hypothetical. If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past? Even if they total less than $500?
(https://i.imgflip.com/12z8yl.jpg)
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(https://i.imgflip.com/12z8yl.jpg)
This graphic carries significant weight, given that it was posted by one of Scoop's leading Red Herring Specialists.
And yes, hoopy, I actually agree with you on this one.
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That’s an apples to elephants comparison.
Penny is the most recognizable Memphis booster in the world. He played basketball for the program. Wiseman was already the top recruit in the country. Penny was paying him to move, not to stay in one place. And he was paying him to move so that he could coach him in basketball, not because he couldn’t afford his mortgage.
The point is that “rules are rules” is rarely the case. Always room for discretion.
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The point is that “rules are rules” is rarely the case. Always room for discretion.
And the rules state a 5 year old kid isn’t a recruit able athlete
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The point is that “rules are rules” is rarely the case. Always room for discretion.
For the few exceptional cases, discretion can and should be exercised. The case for Wiseman is hardly an exception. In fact, it’s a classic example of not following the rules as noted by others.
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And the rules state a 5 year old kid isn’t a recruit able athlete
FBM is like the Dismembered Knight at this point. Comically sad now.
What’s next, his bringing up a stripper Penny tipped in Orlando potentially having a 5 star recruit?
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In my opinion, his eligibilty is going to come down to what information was known before the first decision was made, and what new information came out afterwards. If the NCAA previously knew that Penny gave the parents the 11500 to move them to Memphis there may be some sort of double jeopardy.
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In my opinion, his eligibilty is going to come down to what information was known before the first decision was made, and what new information came out afterwards. If the NCAA previously knew that Penny gave the parents the 11500 to move them to Memphis there may be some sort of double jeopardy.
Double jeopardy? What is this, a murder trial?
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Double jeopardy? What is this, a murder trial?
If the exchange of cash happened in a national park it could be a federal case depending.
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Double jeopardy? What is this, a murder trial?
was trying to use laymans terms. Also.known as res judicata
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FBM is like the Dismembered Knight at this point. Comically sad now.
What’s next, his bringing up a stripper Penny tipped in Orlando potentially having a 5 star recruit?
Hardly. I am bringing up a point that you apparently cannot comprehend.
"Rules are rules" isn't applicable. Every smart organization allows discretion for how rules are enforced. My example was intentionally absurd to show that, if we establish that the rule wouldn't be enforced given my circumstances, than it doesn't have to be enforced here. So using my ability to intelligently look at the situation, here is why I think he should retain eligibility.
**Penney was a booster largely based off a single gift made 11 years ago. (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
**Penney was not Memphis coach at the time. He wasn't associated with the school in any official capacity. (If he were a head or assistant coach at the time, no brainer.)
**The gift to the family was not predicated on him attending the University of Memphis. (Again, no brainer if it were dependent on his attendance.)
So stop acting like this is a black and white, open and shut case. It isn't.
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Hardly. I am bringing up a point that you apparently cannot comprehend.
"Rules are rules" isn't applicable. Every smart organization allows discretion for how rules are enforced. My example was intentionally absurd to show that, if we establish that the rule wouldn't be enforced given my circumstances, than it doesn't have to be enforced here. So using my ability to intelligently look at the situation, here is why I think he should retain eligibility.
**Penney was a booster off a single gift made 11 years ago. (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
**Penney was not Memphis coach at the time. He wasn't associated with the school in any official capacity. (If he were a head or assistant coach at the time, no brainer.)
**The gift to the family was not predicated on him attending the University of Memphis. (Again, no brainer if it were dependent on his attendance.)
So stop acting like this is a black and white, open and shut case. It isn't.
Do you realize the massive hole you are creating....wasn’t involved in the school in any “official capacity”. This is why rules are created, because of that example right there. What you are describing is a bagman...someone without any official capacity either,
Meanwhile, Penny was highly visible at games, events,etc, with the school for a number of years. Describe official. He was rumored as a replacement DURING the time of this episode.
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Hardly. I am bringing up a point that you apparently cannot comprehend.
"Rules are rules" isn't applicable. Every smart organization allows discretion for how rules are enforced. My example was intentionally absurd to show that, if we establish that the rule wouldn't be enforced given my circumstances, than it doesn't have to be enforced here. So using my ability to intelligently look at the situation, here is why I think he should retain eligibility.
**Penney was a booster off a single gift made 11 years ago. (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
**Penney was not Memphis coach at the time. He wasn't associated with the school in any official capacity. (If he were a head or assistant coach at the time, no brainer.)
**The gift to the family was not predicated on him attending the University of Memphis. (Again, no brainer if it were dependent on his attendance.)
So stop acting like this is a black and white, open and shut case. It isn't.
"any OFFICIAL" capacity is correct, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows penny is DA MAN at memphis whether or not he's on their payroll. i wish discretion were used more often in this world, but the problem is, especially with the ncaa, their applications of their rules seem insufficiently discretionary. they carpet bomb the "little guys" while whistling the other way on the "big dogs" following the money seems to unfortunately be the smell test
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"any OFFICIAL" capacity is correct, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows penny is DA MAN at memphis whether or not he's on their payroll. i wish discretion were used more often in this world, but the problem is, especially with the ncaa, their applications of their rules seem insufficiently discretionary. they carpet bomb the "little guys" while whistling the other way on the "big dogs" following the money seems to unfortunately be the smell test
I think the problem is that you are using your 2019 vision to view something as worse than it really was. The transaction occurred a couple years ago.
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Do you realize the massive hole you are creating....wasn’t involved in the school in any “official capacity”. This is why rules are created, because of that example right there. What you are describing is a bagman...someone without any official capacity either,
Meanwhile, Penny was highly visible at games, events,etc, with the school for a number of years. Describe official. He was rumored as a replacement DURING the time of this episode.
Don't confuse the Fluffy Sultan with facts. They just get in the way.
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In March of 2017 the Memphis Commercial Appeal (their fish wrap) was publicly writing articles Tubby Smith should add Penny Hardaway to the staff as an assistant coach to get recruiting up to snuff. There were multiple articles about staff changes that had Penny’s name as a target of speculation....why....because of what he meant to the school and the local area. Again, describe “official”.
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**Penney was a booster off a single gift made 11 years ago. (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
This is patently false. You don’t know what a booster is. Please stop with the lies.
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This is patently false. You don’t know what a booster is. Please stop with the lies.
Agreed. That is why I don't understand how Wiseman was eligible in the first place.
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Agreed. That is why I don't understand how Wiseman was eligible in the first place.
The story from Memphis is probably untrue. I’ve dealt with their compliance folks on an issue, and they were either complete idiots or slimy to a high degree.
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Free James Wiseman
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This is patently false. You don’t know what a booster is. Please stop with the lies.
I know exactly what a booster is. You fail to comprehend my point, and I can't really help you there.
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Don't confuse the Fluffy Sultan with facts. They just get in the way.
I am not confused in the least. Stop lying.
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“ Smith’s attorney, Ricky Lefft, spoke conspiratorially, telling The Commercial-Appeal, “If you’ve got somebody that wants the job and they’re controlling most of the talent in the city, I’m not casting aspersions. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.” (Smith, who was hired by his own alma mater, High Point, told the paper, “I wish Penny well and I’m sure that he’ll get it done there.”) Hardaway dismisses Lefft’s implications. “There’s no way I can control the talent in Memphis,” he says. “I’m not that powerful.”
That was 2017 and 18. But ok, “official”
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I am not confused in the least. Stop lying.
You seem to be arguing for a half pregnant booster.
Meanwhile, Penny was involved in multiple activities with U of Memphis from 2015 to 2018 at games, meet and greets, etc.
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“ Smith’s attorney, Ricky Lefft, spoke conspiratorially, telling The Commercial-Appeal, “If you’ve got somebody that wants the job and they’re controlling most of the talent in the city, I’m not casting aspersions. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.” (Smith, who was hired by his own alma mater, High Point, told the paper, “I wish Penny well and I’m sure that he’ll get it done there.”) Hardaway dismisses Lefft’s implications. “There’s no way I can control the talent in Memphis,” he says. “I’m not that powerful.”
That was 2017 and 18. But ok, “official”
As wrong as Fluffy is that the only thing making Penny a booster is an 11 year old donation, you're just as wrong here. Penny wasn't an employee of Memphis. But he was a booster.
What I do think is dumb is that the NCAA notified Memphis that Wiseman is "likely ineligible." Wiseman is either eligible (which I believe he was deemed) or he is not.
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The story from Memphis is probably untrue. I’ve dealt with their compliance folks on an issue, and they were either complete idiots or slimy to a high degree.
From my experience, both.
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As wrong as Fluffy is that the only thing making Penny a booster is an 11 year old donation, you're just as wrong here. Penny wasn't an employee of Memphis. But he was a booster.
Was he a (defacto) season ticket holder along the way?
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Was he a (defacto) season ticket holder along the way?
What's a "defacto" season ticket holder?
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The story from Memphis is probably untrue. I’ve dealt with their compliance folks on an issue, and they were either complete idiots or slimy to a high degree.
From what I understand, Memphis did not disclose the money in the way they are trying to portray in the news until after the NCAA reopened, as a joint investigation with Memphis, the case. They reopened the case because more information than was disclosed became evident and highlighted serious problems.
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As wrong as Fluffy is that the only thing making Penny a booster is an 11 year old donation, you're just as wrong here. Penny wasn't an employee of Memphis. But he was a booster.
What I do think is dumb is that the NCAA notified Memphis that Wiseman is "likely ineligible." Wiseman is either eligible (which I believe he was deemed) or he is not.
More information came to light, so to say he was eligible as or he isn’t is nonsense. The NCAA can get more info at a later date that changes things...which appears to have happened here.
I didn’t say he was an employee, but he is a booster.
I don’t know why Sultan keeps missing this.
Booster definition Including these:
Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.
Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletic programs.
You can’t have Penny out there at alumni events, honored at halftime, etc, etc and not violate at least one if not both of those.
He is a booster. Period
One final piece to the NCAA definition...the most important piece. “Once an individual is identified as a representative of the institution athletic’s interests the person retains that identity FOREVER”.
A donation 11 years ago makes him a booster forever.
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What's a "defacto" season ticket holder?
Probably getting free tix for a lot of games?
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Free da Indy 500, hey?
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Free James Wiseman. Death to the NCAA
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Free James Wiseman. Death to the NCAA
I'm sure you'd have the same opinion if an AAU coach paid to move a kid to Madison while he was scheming to have Gard fired, then, amazingly, got the kid to commit to Madison. Wiseman should never play another NCAA game at Memphis.
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Good stuff from Gary Parish in the Eye On College Basketball podcast today. First, he said Memphis was aware Wiseman would likely be ruled ineligible before his first game. So this wasn't just some late decision by the NCAA, it was the school deliberately playing a player they knew they shouldn't play. He also said that after talking to other athletic administrators, the consensus was that no one else would've played Wiseman and that Memphis was basically nuts for doing so.
Parish is tied into Memphis and notoriously anti-NCAA when warranted, but he came out strongly saying that Memphis seemed to be in the wrong and that as long as NCAA rules exist, this is about as clear cut a violation as you'll find.
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I'm sure you'd have the same opinion if an AAU coach paid to move a kid to Madison while he was scheming to have Gard fired, then, amazingly, got the kid to commit to Madison. Wiseman should never play another NCAA game at Memphis.
I am surprised when parents of Madison athletes move to Madison after their kids enroll
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Good stuff from Gary Parish in the Eye On College Basketball podcast today. First, he said Memphis was aware Wiseman would likely be ruled ineligible before his first game. So this wasn't just some late decision by the NCAA, it was the school deliberately playing a player they knew they shouldn't play. He also said that after talking to other athletic administrators, the consensus was that no one else would've played Wiseman and that Memphis was basically nuts for doing so.
Parish is tied into Memphis and notoriously anti-NCAA when warranted, but he came out strongly saying that Memphis seemed to be in the wrong and that as long as NCAA rules exist, this is about as clear cut a violation as you'll find.
This is Memphis trying to cash in on the anti-NCAA nonsense of late to pile on...people like Rico and Sultan and others are auto locked in that mode. Pretty soon we will have the sob stories from partial Memphis sport writers justifying this payment, etc. So damn predictable, I’m just shocked that a hack like GP actually sees through this one...that tells me how much this one stinks to high heaven. It also tells me what I have known about him for a long time, he is of the mind to soften all the rules because he genuinely thinks everyone breaks them...he’s wrong, but that is his going in baseline.
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Good stuff from Gary Parish in the Eye On College Basketball podcast today. First, he said Memphis was aware Wiseman would likely be ruled ineligible before his first game. So this wasn't just some late decision by the NCAA, it was the school deliberately playing a player they knew they shouldn't play. He also said that after talking to other athletic administrators, the consensus was that no one else would've played Wiseman and that Memphis was basically nuts for doing so.
Parish is tied into Memphis and notoriously anti-NCAA when warranted, but he came out strongly saying that Memphis seemed to be in the wrong and that as long as NCAA rules exist, this is about as clear cut a violation as you'll find.
I don't agree with the second paragraph, but he is right on the first one.
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This is Memphis trying to cash in on the anti-NCAA nonsense of late to pile on...people like Rico and Sultan and others are auto locked in that mode. Pretty soon we will have the sob stories from partial Memphis sport writers justifying this payment, etc. So damn predictable, I’m just shocked that a hack like GP actually sees through this one...that tells me how much this one stinks to high heaven. It also tells me what I have known about him for a long time, he is of the mind to soften all the rules because he genuinely thinks everyone breaks them...he’s wrong, but that is his going in baseline.
There's nothing nonsensical about being anti-NCAA.
Believing that Wiseman is ineligible under the rules and believing the NCAA is a sham aren't mutually exclusive.
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There's nothing nonsensical about being anti-NCAA.
Believing that Wiseman is ineligible under the rules and believing the NCAA is a sham aren't mutually exclusive.
True.
Neither is believing that the NCAA usually gets things wrong but this time got it right.
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I don't agree with the second paragraph, but he is right on the first one.
I assume you don't agree with the sentiment, because in terms of content, while Parish applauded it because it will make for great radio content, he was pretty clear in saying this is a textbook rules violation.
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I assume you don't agree with the sentiment, because in terms of content, while Parish applauded it because it will make for great radio content, he was pretty clear in saying this is a textbook rules violation.
Sure. If you believe in “textbook rules violations.”
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There's nothing nonsensical about being anti-NCAA.
Believing that Wiseman is ineligible under the rules and believing the NCAA is a sham aren't mutually exclusive.
Yep.
True.
Neither is believing that the NCAA usually gets things wrong but this time got it right.
Yep yep.
The whole "even a blind squirrel" thing applies.
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There's nothing nonsensical about being anti-NCAA.
Believing that Wiseman is ineligible under the rules and believing the NCAA is a sham aren't mutually exclusive.
Maybe your ncaa is my gov’t / media equivalent... now it makes sense.
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Maybe your ncaa is my gov’t / media equivalent... now it makes sense.
Politics.
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There's nothing nonsensical about being anti-NCAA.
Believing that Wiseman is ineligible under the rules and believing the NCAA is a sham aren't mutually exclusive.
Agreed. But there is nothing sensical about being anti-NCAA either. It is strictly an opinion one way or the other. Also, like any major organization, they get some things right, and some things wrong.
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Agreed. But there is nothing sensical about being anti-NCAA either. It is strictly an opinion one way or the other. Also, like any major organization, they get some things right, and some things wrong.
Correct
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Sure. If you believe in “textbook rules violations.”
Without going back for the exact quote, Parish said that a Memphis booster paying $11,000 to get the #1 recruit in the country to move to Memphis and then enrolling him at Memphis is basically why these rules exist.
You can disagree on the existence of the rules, but this is like trying to argue to the cop who pulled you over driving 55 mph that it's the speed limit of 25 and not your choice to exceed the speed limit that is in the wrong.
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Without going back for the exact quote, Parish said that a Memphis booster paying $11,000 to get the #1 recruit in the country to move to Memphis and then enrolling him at Memphis is basically why these rules exist.
You can disagree on the existence of the rules, but this is like trying to argue to the cop who pulled you over driving 55 mph that it's the speed limit of 25 and not your choice to exceed the speed limit that is in the wrong.
No it isn't. I have made my argument repeatedly so I won't rehash it here. But your analogy is ridiculous.
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Agreed. But there is nothing sensical about being anti-NCAA either.
Being anti-NCAA - in its current form and under its current tenets - is the only thing that makes sense.
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No it isn't. I have made my argument repeatedly so I won't rehash it here. But your analogy is ridiculous.
seems like you, wiseman and his attorneys are about the only ones who feel this way. think of it this way, us scoop people represent pretty much those who would probably be on the jury if there were to be one. i'm assuming his attorney, leslie ballin ain't a booster, ey?
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This is F'n ridiculous...Really??
Gary Parrish
@GaryParrishCBS
1h
Replying to @BrianKelsey
In response to the James Wiseman situation, Tennessee state senator @BrianKelsey told me he will today add language to his "California-style bill” so that “No Tennessee public university may discriminate against a player based on a donation to the university by a coach.”
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Seems like a decent bill, provided there is no provision that says the coach can provide directly to the player, which is what made him ineligible.
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https://twitter.com/jay_256/status/1194036336396767232?s=20
@jay_256
Memphis' basketball team is wearing specialized shirts to send a direct message to the NCAA. I love it!! #Targeted
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJIRsxOXYAA63dZ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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https://twitter.com/jay_256/status/1194036336396767232?s=20
@jay_256
Memphis' basketball team is wearing specialized shirts to send a direct message to the NCAA. I love it!! #Targeted
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJIRsxOXYAA63dZ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
A target on Memphis's back? Lol. What? They've been entirely irrelevant as a program since the last time they were cheating, over a decade ago. Maybe try winning some games before saying you have a target on your back.
I loved Penny as a player. He's a very annoying coach. I respect that while guys like Mullin and Ewing were great NBA players, they don't yell from the mountaintop how everyone is jealous of them and they're all out to get them because of it.
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I loved Penny as a player. He's a very annoying coach. I respect that while guys like Mullin and Ewing were great NBA players, they don't yell from the mountaintop how everyone is jealous of them and they're all out to get them because of it.
On the other hand, Ewing and Mullin never landed a recruiting class that had everyone up in arms.
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I am not confused in the least. Stop lying.
Channeling your inner JB. Knew you had a serious man crush on him.
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This is F'n ridiculous...Really??
Gary Parrish
@GaryParrishCBS
1h
Replying to @BrianKelsey
In response to the James Wiseman situation, Tennessee state senator @BrianKelsey told me he will today add language to his "California-style bill” so that “No Tennessee public university may discriminate against a player based on a donation to the university by a coach.”
Good luck with that Brian Kelsey.
These guys are so out of control it is incredible.
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https://twitter.com/jay_256/status/1194036336396767232?s=20
@jay_256
Memphis' basketball team is wearing specialized shirts to send a direct message to the NCAA. I love it!! #Targeted
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJIRsxOXYAA63dZ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Hmm...the last time targets were used....NM
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New developments
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1195015593767964672
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Ha. And Memphis let him
Play some
Games. Sheesh.
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Also his lawsuit was dropped. Rumors that the NCAA and Memphis are negotiating a solution.
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Also his lawsuit was dropped. Rumors that the NCAA and Memphis are negotiating a solution.
he showed enough in the.first few games to be a top 3 draft pick. Season over.
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New developments
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1195015593767964672
More new developments, his high school state title may be vacated now...cuz...well stripes are what they are Penny.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28073995/james-wiseman-ineligibility-cost-memphis-east-high-school-state-title
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More new developments, his high school state title may be vacated now...cuz...well stripes are what they are Penny.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28073995/james-wiseman-ineligibility-cost-memphis-east-high-school-state-title
Cue the Pope to tell us this is BS in 3, 2, 1.....
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Shady from the get-go.
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My goodness the posts on that twitter feed by Memphis fans are truly ignorant and disturbing. I guess when all ur program has ever done is cheat then a fanbase considers nothing out of bounds and chooses to blame the authorities. This is about as clear a case of impermissable benefits as one will ever see. He should be ineligible, penny suspended and all games forfeited. Pretty simple
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Did Wiseman graduate from H.S.with a diploma or (Fake). Memphis
let him play? If so, Penny is a joke. Games should be forfeited for cheating. Memphis on probation or Penny released. Wonder what kind of
grade pt. he has in college. Course--How to hold a golf club or walk
straight etc.
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Sorry- Sand-knit beat me to it.
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Free James Wiseman. Make Memphis Great Again.
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Free James Wiseman. Make Memphis Great Again.
Just. Win. Baby.
Everyone. Cheats.
If. You. Ain’t. Cheating. You. Ain’t. Trying.
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“Applying well documented & understood rules is a ridiculous approach”
- fluffers
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Did Wiseman graduate from H.S.with a diploma or (Fake). Memphis
let him play? If so, Penny is a joke. Games should be forfeited for cheating. Memphis on probation or Penny released. Wonder what kind of
grade pt. he has in college. Course--How to hold a golf club or walk
straight etc.
Why would you ask whether he graduated from high school or question his GPA?
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Why would you ask whether he graduated from high school or question his GPA?
Not to mention his college GPA when he hasn't even completed a semester.
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Just. Win. Baby.
Everyone. Cheats.
If. You. Ain’t. Cheating. You. Ain’t. Trying.
Kid is worth every nickel the university will make off his year there
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Kid is worth every nickel the university will make off his year there
Not if they are put on probation, the negative PR, etc...they have already suffered further brand harm, but it was not exactly great to begin with which is why they may be willing to roll the dice.
The school and athletic department has had a shady reputation for 40 years...this isn’t helping.
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Not if they are put on probation, the negative PR, etc...they have already suffered further brand harm, but it was not exactly great to begin with which is why they may be willing to roll the dice.
The school and athletic department has had a shady reputation for 40 years...this isn’t helping.
Maybe they can get elected President then
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In before the lock.
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Not if they are put on probation, the negative PR, etc...they have already suffered further brand harm, but it was not exactly great to begin with which is why they may be willing to roll the dice.
The school and athletic department has had a shady reputation for 40 years...this isn’t helping.
Brand harm? This is Memphis' brand, and I see little harm.
The only thing that will harm the Memphis brand is being irrelevant, as they were under Tubby and Pastner.
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he showed enough in the.first few games to be a top 3 draft pick. Season over.
his numbers against a couple of garbage teams are impressive but 14 and 12 against Oregon is misleading. Most of those came in the final few minutes of the game, he was a non-factor for most of it. Against other guys his size he struggled.
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How do you get into college if you don't graduate from h.s.? Cheat !
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his numbers against a couple of garbage teams are impressive but 14 and 12 against Oregon is misleading. Most of those came in the final few minutes of the game, he was a non-factor for most of it. Against other guys his size he struggled.
He hardly played at all in the first half due to foul trouble.
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How do you get into college if you don't graduate from h.s.? Cheat !
What makes you believe Wiseman might not have graduated high school?
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He hardly played at all in the first half due to foul trouble.
and didn't really do anything until late in the second half when Oregon was ahead.
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How do you get into college if you don't graduate from h.s.? Cheat !
What the hell are you talking about?
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Brand harm? This is Memphis' brand, and I see little harm.
The only thing that will harm the Memphis brand is being irrelevant, as they were under Tubby and Pastner.
Or when they are relevant, almost every time in their history, it has been with scandal...so yes, it matters to many alumni that share a connection with the school. To other alumni, they don’t care. Let’s not pretend it is fully supportive.
There are 100’s of relevant schools that don’t excel in athletics. Just as there are a bunch that have a crapty perception because of their cheating in athletics that has overshadowed some of their academic achievements.
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and didn't really do anything until late in the second half when Oregon was ahead.
What did Kwami Brown and Eddy Curry accomplish in college?
The NBA drafts on potential. This guy will be rich very soon.
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Did Wiseman graduate from H.S.with a diploma or (Fake). Memphis
let him play? If so, Penny is a joke. Games should be forfeited for cheating. Memphis on probation or Penny released. Wonder what kind of
grade pt. he has in college. Course--How to hold a golf club or walk
straight etc.
His ineligibility in high school was not related to grades. It was related to shady dealings surrounding their transfer and illegal payments from Penny to the player/players.
They were declared ineligible. They got the same judge to file an injunction and temporary restraining order. They played anyway (just like at Memphis). The judge then found that they were indeed ineligible and the wins when they illegally played are now in jeopardy of being nullified.
Essentially they played the same legal game they tried to do at Memphis.
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What did Kwami Brown and Eddy Curry accomplish in college?
The NBA drafts on potential. This guy will be rich very soon.
He’ll be rich, I don’t doubt that, but I went expecting to see a lot more from him than I did. Achuwa was the best player for Memphis.
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He’ll be rich, I don’t doubt that, but I went expecting to see a lot more from him than I did. Achuwa was the best player for Memphis.
Huh? Achiuwa went for 5, 4, and 1. Wiseman had 14, 12, and 0 on 5-8 shooting. The only thing that slowed him was foul trouble.
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He’ll be rich, I don’t doubt that, but I went expecting to see a lot more from him than I did. Achuwa was the best player for Memphis.
Let us know when you land an NBA GM job.
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Compromised. 12 game suspension.
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Compromised. 12 game suspension.
Yep.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28124656/memphis-james-wiseman-sit-additional-11-games-part-suspension
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Compromised. 12 game suspension.
With an additional 11.5k donation to charity. Where’s he getting that money?
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With an additional 11.5k donation to charity. Where’s he getting that money?
Once again, the NCAA proves its stupidity
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With an additional 11.5k donation to charity. Where’s he getting that money?
When he sells the $2 million home Penny gifted him.
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So, precedence is set? Boosters can pay for "moving expenses" for the family to be close, and the player has to sit out non conference season?
Just want tom make sure before I do this.
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So, precedence is set? Boosters can pay for "moving expenses" for the family to be close, and the player has to sit out non conference season?
Just want tom make sure before I do this.
It’s funny, I would have sat him for the year for exactly the reason you just stated. Meanwhile, there are millions of people screaming that even one game was too much.
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I'm shocked the NCAA went with 12. That's far more than I expected.
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So, precedence is set? Boosters can pay for "moving expenses" for the family to be close, and the player has to sit out non conference season?
Just want tom make sure before I do this.
Haha yep, open season baby! Back up the Brinks truck!
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let's see...approximately 18-20 games for $10,500=$525-883.3333333 per game
that's a pretty good deal and keeps them under the salary cap
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Once again, the NCAA proves its stupidity
Agree.
Should have been the entire year.
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Nah. A bunch of mitigating factors here. A whole year would be a brainless “rules are rules”!mindset.
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Nah. A bunch of mitigating factors here. A whole year would be a brainless “rules are rules”!mindset.
I’m puzzled as to the NCAA making him donate $11,000 to charity. Hope he has a job
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Nah. A bunch of mitigating factors here. A whole year would be a brainless “rules are rules”!mindset.
What are those factors? True factors, not the bleeding heart life is unfair ones.
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The biggest was that his family wasn't given the money on a condition that he attend the University of Memphis.
I would also then argue that since the payment would have been fine under any other circumstance, that the fact that Penny is a "booster" should be mitigated.
BTW, the fine is silly. Just another stupid NCAA amateurism mindset. He borrows the money with his future NBA contract as collateral. Waste of time and effort.
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The biggest was that his family wasn't given the money on a condition that he attend the University of Memphis.
I would also then argue that since the payment would have been fine under any other circumstance, that the fact that Penny is a "booster" should be mitigated.
BTW, the fine is silly. Just another stupid NCAA amateurism mindset. He borrows the money with his future NBA contract as collateral. Waste of time and effort.
LOL were you born yesterday?
I actually have no problems with payments of this kind. I think it should be open season. But come on man.
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I would also then argue that since the payment would have been fine under any other circumstance,
what does this even mean?
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LOL were you born yesterday?
I actually have no problems with payments of this kind. I think it should be open season. But come on man.
Penny wasn't the head coach of Memphis at the time. He was paid to join his AAU and his high school team.
what does this even mean?
That it was a legal payment. Not under the table, etc.
BTW, I think Penny should be facing a similar suspension. He is the one that eventually put the kid in this scenario.
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Penny wasn't the head coach of Memphis at the time. He was paid to join his AAU and his high school team.
That it was a legal payment. Not under the table, etc.
BTW, I think Penny should be facing a similar suspension. He is the one that eventually put the kid in this scenario.
Did each side claim it on their taxes?
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Does the Tennessee high school athletic association not have rules against paying players?
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Did each side claim it on their taxes?
How the hell would I know?
Does the Tennessee high school athletic association not have rules against paying players?
Yes. It's a long story but he was declared ineligible, a court issued a stay, and I think the title he won in high school has been stripped.
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How the hell would I know?
Yes. It's a long story but he was declared ineligible, a court issued a stay, and I think the title he won in high school has been stripped.
Thanks for the info
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How the hell would I know?
you said the transaction was appropriate except for Penny being a booster
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If you play with fire, you will get burned. Memphis State knew the risks in hiring Penny.
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you said the transaction was appropriate except for Penny being a booster
Transactions can be appropriate. If the gifter or receiver does not adquately report them, that's another issue.
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That transaction was not, by tennessee high school, NCAA, and most likely IRS regs.
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That transaction was not, by tennessee high school, NCAA, and most likely IRS regs.
1. Not relevant to the issue at hand
2. What we are debating
3. If reported correctly, it would be.
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1. Not relevant to the issue at hand
2. What we are debating
3. If reported correctly, it would be.
1. Yes it is, you stated under any other cirmustances the transaction was fine. 2. Your implication that 12 games is apt 3. I would assume if it was reported correctly, the details would have came out earlier
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1. Yes it is, you stated under any other cirmustances the transaction was fine.
I meant legally.
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Penny wasn't the head coach of Memphis at the time. He was paid to join his AAU and his high school team.
That it was a legal payment. Not under the table, etc.
BTW, I think Penny should be facing a similar suspension. He is the one that eventually put the kid in this scenario.
He was a booster and already rumored to be Tubby’s replacement in the media at that time...linked article last week.
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So you aren’t a quid pro quo conspiracy guy....
Huh?
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So you aren’t a quid pro quo conspiracy guy....
Politics. If you are going to scream when others inject it....