Congrats Markus

[MU82]

MU82

George was a man playing with boys. No doubt different era's, shot clock, number of games and other factors, but I believe Howard is the greatest pure scorer in school history. That said, I still believe today, he is not a top ten all time player in school history.

You are entitled to that opinion, Goose. We will agree to disagree.

[Goose]

PRN

I rate Howard higher than McNeal.

[Goose]

MU82

So, you think George was a better scorer?

[TallTitan34]

Question from someone who came along years after GT.  Was he a good long range shooter?  Would a three point line have helped him significantly?

[79Warrior]

...and no 3pt basket (lowering ppg) and no shot clock (fewer possessions). Markus' scoring record is a great achievement, but so is George's and they IMO are not comparable.

Absolutely. Not to mention Al ran the games at a much slower pace.

[The Sultan]

Do you think McNeal is top 10? I do not. I'm just curious.

There's an argument to be made for him no doubt.  But at this point I think you are correct.  We will see what this year brings.

[muwarrior69]

Question from someone who came along years after GT.  Was he a good long range shooter?  Would a three point line have helped him significantly?

I think the better metric which could be easily calculated is to convert all Markus' 3 pt baskets to 2pt baskets and 3 pt foul calls to 2 pt foul calls and see what his scoring would look like to date. Of course it would be nearly impossible to know how the shot clock affected ppg in Howard's case.

It's 50 years ago, but I do agree that Markus is a better shooter than George, but I think George was a better scorer inside the basket. The stats may prove me wrong but I don't think they kept stats on where the basket was made on the court in 60s.

Again it show how much the game has changed.

[Galway Eagle]

I think the better metric which could be easily calculated is to convert all Markus' 3 pt baskets to 2pt baskets and 3 pt foul calls to 2 pt foul calls and see what his scoring would look like to date. Of course it would be nearly impossible to know how the shot clock affected ppg in Howard's case.

It's 50 years ago, but I do agree that Markus is a better shooter than George, but I think George was a better scorer inside the basket. The stats may prove me wrong but I don't think they kept stats on where the basket was made on the court in 60s.

Again it show how much the game has changed.

But if there was no three pt shot Markus likely wouldn't take a lower percentage shot like he does now. There's just no way to compare it's better to appreciate greatness when you see it

[Cheeks]

Do you think McNeal is top 10? I do not. I'm just curious.

The guy that calls Markus a cancer...

[muwarrior69]

But if there was no three pt shot Markus likely wouldn't take a lower percentage shot like he does now. There's just no way to compare it's better to appreciate greatness when you see it

I do appreciate greatness when I see it, and I have seen both. They are both great. IMO Markus is the all time leading scoring Golden Eagle; George the all time leading scoring Warrior. As you say incomparable, two different games.

[The Sultan]

Yeah I think it is exceedingly difficult to compare players across eras in different sports.  Its like the argument over who the greatest Packer quarterback is - Starr (my dad), Favre (me), or Rodgers (my kids).  Different eras and different ways to measure success - with a dose of sentimentality thrown in.

[muwarrior69]

Yeah I think it is exceedingly difficult to compare players across eras in different sports.  Its like the argument over who the greatest Packer quarterback is - Starr (my dad), Favre (me), or Rodgers (my kids).  Different eras and different ways to measure success - with a dose of sentimentality thrown in.

Starr without a doubt!

[MU82]

MU82

So, you think George was a better scorer?

Well, even though I'm not a young'un, I'm young'un enough to have never seen George Thompson play one minute of basketball, unless one counts grainy film of him. So I simply do not know. I also never saw Babe Ruth play baseball, but I know for a fact that Ruth is the greatest ever because of the breadth of information about him. I don't think that applies to George Thompson; if you didn't go to Marquette, you probably never heard of him.

I assume that if Thompson had been able to play a 4th season and had he benefited from the 3-point shot and the shot clock, that he would have a lot more points than Markus currently does, but Markus might still eventually pass him. But would that alone make Markus a "better scorer"? I don't know.

Markus is a great scorer today, in this era, and that's the only era he can be judged on IMHO. Assuming he stays healthy he likely will have been the best scorer in all of college basketball during the 2017-20 stretch. And before that, as a 17-year-old freshman who wasn't the centerpiece of the MU offense, he was a damn near record-setting 3-point shooter.

I'm not saying this is you, Goose, but I'm not sure why some want to diminish what he's done by comparing him to those of 30 or 40 or 50 years ago.

He is a much different player than others who likely are on top-10 lists: Thompson, Dean, Luke, Lackey, Lee, Chones, Tatum, Bo, Wade, Crowder, Butler, etc. Each would be a matter of opinion, and each would be subject to any selector's biases. I mean, grown men and women who were born in 1990 and never saw any Al-era Warriors play except in grainy films ... who are Lackey and Tatum to them?

These are always fun arguments ... until they become un-fun because folks make it personal for some reason. Again, not saying that's you, my friend.

[tower912]

Different eras, different rules, different styles.  Both are great scorers.   

[Loose Cannon]

The guy that calls Markus a cancer...

Seconded.

[We R Final Four]

You apparently didn't see how pissed off he was at himself leaving the court at halftime. He knew and he wanted it on that free throw.

No...I did see it. Doesn't change my position however.
I called the miss before the shot.
Acting pissed doesn't prove anything.
Doesn't matter. Happy for MH.

[Daniel]

Congrats, Marcus!   You will be hard to catch for future Warriors!  You have the whole season, Fournier etc to add to the record!  Awesome!  Thanks for being a great rep for MU!

[mileskishnish72]

Thanks for all the memories, Markus, and congratulations.

Saw GT and he was great as well.

Each in their own way. Just appreciate them.

[oldwarrior81]

I don't think the 3 would have much of George's game in college.  He made 101 over his 5 years in the ABA, at a 26% clip. 
Even without the 3 he was still able to average 27 points per game in 1972.

Maybe if George played in this era he would be more prolific from distance as that is something almost everyone works on.
Back in his day, the 23 footer was a bad shot for most.  Especially when one had his ability to turn that 23-footer into a 12-footer, and turn the 12-footers into 4-footers.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The guy that calls Markus a cancer...

I certainly did!!

[bilsu]

I watched Thompson play on the freshmen team. I do not think the three point line would of added much to his scoring totals. A bigger effect would of been not banning dunking in college basketball. He could dunk his sophomore year and could do a 360 dunk while being covered, which was pretty amazing back then. Starting his junior year dunking was outlawed in college basketball, because Lew Alcinder was too dominate as a sophomore. NCAA changed the rules to try limit Alcinder, but that did not stop UCLA. The bunking ban lasted 10+(?) years.

I think Wade may of been our best scorer, if he had played four years. As a partial qualifiler he had to sit out his freshmen year, but could of played a fourth year if he got his degree in the first four years and went to graduate school.

[MU82]

I certainly did!!

Without a lick.of evidence you call a 20-year-old who has given 3+ years of his life to MU hoops a "cancer."

You must be proud.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Without a lick.of evidence

????

[MU82]

????

Yes, you're right. You did provide "evidence" -- your opinion.

I commend you for courage.

Using the cloak of interwebs anonymity, you have impugned the integrity of a 20-year-old person you don't personally know.

You are like Scoop's personal whistleblower, and the grief you have taken for bravely calling Markus Howard a "cancer" shows that you clearly are the one who has been wronged here.

We all owe you a debt of gratitude. Soldier on, sir!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Yes, you're right. You did provide "evidence" -- your opinion.

I commend you for courage.

Using the cloak of interwebs anonymity, you have impugned the integrity of a 20-year-old person you don't personally know.

You are like Scoop's personal whistleblower, and the grief you have taken for bravely calling Markus Howard a "cancer" shows that you clearly are the one who has been wronged here.

We all owe you a debt of gratitude. Soldier on, sir!

Do you know him?

Do you know Joey Hauser? Sam Hauser? Mr. Hauser?