CA Bans Fur

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Didn't you already try that exact same joke in this same thread?

Same old song and dance with this cat, aina?

[Tortuga94]

While some are rendered for meat meal, many are simply incinerated and disposed of. And unless you are buying the cheapest crappiest dog food possible then mink and other fur byproducts are not in your dog food.

Like I said, many different uses for the carcasses, including pet foods. From my experience and my knowledge based on conversations with my friends, almost nothing is wasted. The meat, the fat and even the manure.

[dgies9156]

This whole debate is kinda silly. Minks are rodents and they have no useful purpose apart from keeping people warm. Until they become endangered, why not? Same for foxes.

Next thing you know, someone will be out trying to "save the cockroach!"

Full disclosure: Neither I or Ms. Dgies wear fur. We do wear wool and and leather regularly.

All that said, with everything from forest fires to landslides to urban homeless problems, not to mention rolling electrical blackouts, the legislature in the State of California really does have better things to do. They really do.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This whole debate is kinda silly. Minks are rodents and they have no useful purpose apart from keeping people warm. Until they become endangered, why not? Same for foxes.

So animal's worth should only be judged if they are deemed "useful" to humans? 

And minks and foxes do serve a purpose anyway.  They control rodent populations. 

[Pakuni]

All that said, with everything from forest fires to landslides to urban homeless problems, not to mention rolling electrical blackouts, the legislature in the State of California really does have better things to do. They really do.

The California legislature has 120 members and takes on roughly 6,000 items in a typical two-year cycle.
In other words, it's capable of dealing with more than one thing at a time. Including measures that may not be personally important to you.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So animal's worth should only be judged if they are deemed "useful" to humans? 

And minks and foxes do serve a purpose anyway.  They control rodent populations.

The only good rodent is a dead badger.

[mu03eng]

The California legislature has 120 members and takes on roughly 6,000 items in a typical two-year cycle.
In other words, it's capable of dealing with more than one thing at a time. Including measures that may not be personally important to you.

It has been my experience that governing bodies often tackle non-transformative actions first because they are easier and kick the can down the road on the hard stuff. I'd argue this mind-set directly refutes that they can in fact deal with more than one thing at a time. At the same time they passed this bill they also passed a bill on "piece part work" that has free lance writers howling  that based on some of the twitter back and forth from some of the legislators involved indicates that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Pakuni]

It has been my experience that governing bodies often tackle non-transformative actions first because they are easier and kick the can down the road on the hard stuff. I'd argue this mind-set directly refutes that they can in fact deal with more than one thing at a time. At the same time they passed this bill they also passed a bill on "piece part work" that has free lance writers howling  that based on some of the twitter back and forth from some of the legislators involved indicates that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

OK.
Not sure what your experience with legislators is, but in my experience the harder bills get kicked down the road because there's less consensus and therefore the need for additional time to negotiate and amend while the easy stuff gets pushed through.
I know nothing about any legislation that has freelance writers mad or what lawmakers are tweeting about that.

[buckchuckler]

So animal's worth should only be judged if they are deemed "useful" to humans? 

You new to humanity?

[UWW2MU]

Fascinating discussion.  I learned enough to want to seek outside sources, and found a plethora.  Lot's of hyperbolic statements here and elsewhere. 

One small thing... how would this stop someone from just buying one elsewhere and bringing it back to CA?  I suppose making it illegal to buy new in Cali will cut down on the volume sold, but it certainly won't end it.

[mu03eng]

OK.
Not sure what your experience with legislators is, but in my experience the harder bills get kicked down the road because there's less consensus and therefore the need for additional time to negotiate and amend while the easy stuff gets pushed through.
I know nothing about any legislation that has freelance writers mad or what lawmakers are tweeting about that.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/10/21/20924781/freelance-journalists-writers-ab-5-california One interesting thing not covered in the article was the twitter dispute between two legislators (including the draft) got into around how the 35 articles per month number was arrived at. It seemed somewhat haphazard and arbitrary.

My experience with legislators is that the hard stuff is pushed off because it's easier to use as a cludgle politically than it is to do the amending and negotiation. But that's getting into politics so I've digressed too far

[dgies9156]

Fluffy Blue Monster Response:

So animal's worth should only be judged if they are deemed "useful" to humans? 

Of course. Isn't that the spoils of being on the top of the food chain? What's the point of being up here if you can't have any fun?

And minks and foxes do serve a purpose anyway.  They control rodent populations.
[/quote]

So does DCon! Much more effectively

[JWags85]

This whole debate is kinda silly. Minks are rodents and they have no useful purpose apart from keeping people warm. Until they become endangered, why not? Same for foxes.

Mink aren't rodents. Neither are foxes.  They have far more in common with a lynx or wolf on the food chain and ecosystem than a rat or a rabbit.  But that wouldn't help your point.

[warriorchick]

So animal's worth should only be judged if they are deemed "useful" to humans? 

Short answer:

I don't see the problem with farming any kind of animal if it is done in a humane manner.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Short answer:

I don't see the problem with farming any kind of animal if it is done in a humane manner.

I don't either.  But that's a far cry from "they serve no purpose."

[Pakuni]

Short answer:

I don't see the problem with farming any kind of animal if it is done in a humane manner.

Is there a humane way to farm and slaughter animals?
I'm not a vegan/vegetarian or anything like that, but I don't believe there's anything humane about killing other creatures for our consumption. It's not wrong or unethical (IMO) and it's arguably a necessity, but it's not humane.

[jsglow]

So I just drove past the massive feed lots of eastern Colorado today.  I think I'm getting a burger tonight.

I agree with the notion that the farming of animals for any legitimate use ranging from appropriate medical testing to food to clothing in any form is absolutely fine so long as their treatment is humane.

You know what pisses me off?  When I see a fellow fisherman tie up his catch at the end of the pier for hours rather than respecting the resource and cleaning them in a timely manner.  Catch/release or shore lunch/dinner.  That's it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

On a wonderment note: I have owned one house for 25 years in the midst of a bunch of retail and only three establishments are the same as move in day. Two bars and one fur storage store. The bars have gambling (now legal). What kinda racquets are being run in the back of the mink joynt?

[warriorchick]

On a wonderment note: I have owned one house for 25 years in the midst of a bunch of retail and only three establishments are the same as move in day. Two bars and one fur storage store. The bars have gambling (now legal). What kinda racquets are being run in the back off the mink joynt?

Fur storage is highly profitable. You are charging someone $100 to hang their coat in an air conditioned room for six months.

[MUBurrow]

So I just drove past the massive feed lots of eastern Colorado today.  I think I'm getting a burger tonight.

I agree with the notion that the farming of animals for any legitimate use ranging from appropriate medical testing to food to clothing in any form is absolutely fine so long as their treatment is humane.

So this is the trick, right? Hard to see anything about the massive CAFOs I think you're talking about, or any mink farm I'm familiar with, as humane.

Plus, does humane change by animal? The more we learn about animals, the more it has become pretty obvious that what was considered humane even a couple of years ago, isn't - and that in most cases, to make those practices humane would effectively price the product or industry out of existence.

[jsglow]

So this is the trick, right? Hard to see anything about the massive CAFOs I think you're talking about, or any mink farm I'm familiar with, as humane.

Plus, does humane change by animal? The more we learn about animals, the more it has become pretty obvious that what was considered humane even a couple of years ago, isn't - and that in most cases, to make those practices humane would effectively price the product or industry out of existence.

Go ask any farmer how feed lot cattle are treated.  He'll tell you incredibly well because they are damn valuable.  And my burger was very tasty tonight.

Oh, one more thing.  Being a 'pet parent' is total bull.  No animal should ever be elevated to the level of a human being.  There is ZERO equivalency between raising a child and owning a dog.

[MUBurrow]

Go ask any farmer how feed lot cattle are treated.  He'll tell you incredibly well because they are damn valuable.  And my burger was very tasty tonight.

I don't think we're going to agree on a workable definition of humane.

[forgetful]

I don't think we're going to agree on a workable definition of humane.

What is a humane way to treat plants. We eat them alive, and they can hear themselves being eaten and lash out defensively.

https://www.sciencealert.com/plants-can-hear-themselves-being-eaten-researchers-have-discovered

They can also learn and have memories.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2015/12/15/can-a-plant-remember-this-one-seems-to-heres-the-evidence/

Yet despite all this people regularly chop their heads off and eat them alive. Talk about inhumane.

[rocket surgeon]

And eat them too-SMOKED UP WITH HICKORY AND PECAN WOOD

[buckchuckler]

Do animals in the wild have humane deaths?