The NBA and China

[Not A Serious Person]

So, LeBron's comments were dumb and better left unsaid and he largely deserves the grief he's getting.
But while we're riding atop our high horses and calling others hypocrites, maybe take a moment to look around your home or office. Are you reading this on an iPhone or computer manufactured with the cheap labor made possible by the oppressive Chinese regime? Where were the components made in your 55" LED TV? Who made your clothes, furniture and bedding? I'm guessing it wasn't a well-compensated worker in a safe environment who enjoys the same political and economic freedoms you do. And you're paying less for your consumer goods because of that.

Fact is, the NBA isn't along in benefiting economically from business relationships. We all are. When it comes to China, we're all hypocrites.

It is not about using products from those countries.  As I noted above, China is demanding Chinese censorship rules inside the US.

It is more akin to Saudi Arabia demanding American Women have to wear Burkas, in the United States, if they want to drive cars with Saudi gas.

Using a product from these countries, THAT CONFORM TO AMERICAN STANDARDS is much less a problem.  Demanding Chinese standards have to adopted here is the problem. 

[Not A Serious Person]

Wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion, thanks for sharing.

[Pakuni]

It is not about using products from those countries.  As I noted above, China is demanding Chinese censorship rules inside the US.

It is more akin to Saudi Arabia demanding American Women have to wear Burkas, in the United States, if they want to drive cars with Saudi gas.

Using a product from these countries, THAT CONFORM TO AMERICAN STANDARDS is much less a problem.  Demanding Chinese standards have to adopted here is the problem.

China cam demand that I somersault my way into the office tomorrow. That's not happening, and neither is the adoption of Chinese standards here.

Do you now believe that it would be wrong for a business to suppress the political speech of its employees if it risks that business' bottom line?

[mu03eng]

Wrong.

Disagree it was fading, and Lebron not only had to say something but say something stupid that got all the whataboutists fired up and will likely generate more people to speak out/demonstrate against China which will make China double down.

I mean the burned Lebron jerseys in HK, that's a real bad look

[Not A Serious Person]

China cam demand that I somersault my way into the office tomorrow. That's not happening, and neither is the adoption of Chinese standards here.

Do you now believe that it would be wrong for a business to suppress the political speech of its employees if it risks that business' bottom line?

The NFL should not suppress Kaepernick's right to protest, and they did not.  I never said he should have been suppressed.

I said the NFL had the right to ban him from using their workplace to protest. Just like your workplace has the right to ask you, or your co-workers, to not use its resources to engage in political protest to their customers.

Kaepernick had six other days of the week to protest, protected by the constitution.

This is about the sixth time you have tried to divert with this whataboutism.  I hope you are finally one with this tangent.

[Not A Serious Person]

Disagree it was fading, and Lebron not only had to say something but say something stupid that got all the whataboutists fired up and will likely generate more people to speak out/demonstrate against China which will make China double down.

I mean the burned Lebron jerseys in HK, that's a real bad look

It depends on how you define "fading." 

It was looking like Chinese protests at NBA games were going to fade. This would have made it easier for the Chinese to start broadcasting their games again and go back to their endorsement deals.

LeBron fired up the Chinese protests ... 16,000 free HK shirts were not being made for the Lakers opener if Lebron had not stuck his foot in his mouth.

[MU82]

Disagree it was fading, and Lebron not only had to say something but say something stupid that got all the whataboutists fired up and will likely generate more people to speak out/demonstrate against China which will make China double down.

I mean the burned Lebron jerseys in HK, that's a real bad look

Definitely a bad look, and it was Hong Kong that was pissed.

The Chinese government was irate about Morey, and was telling Silver to fire him. It was those aftershocks that led the Chinese government to effectively ban the NBA from its airwaves and take other anti-NBA measures.

So while we agree on much, mu03, we'll disagree here.

Of course, unlike Smuggles, I don't claim to be an expert on Chinese politics and business. I also didn't say to avoid buying AAPL at $90.

I said the NFL had the right to ban him from using their workplace to protest. Just like your workplace has the right to ask you, or your co-workers, to not use its resources to engage in political protest to their customers.

Kaepernick had six other days of the week to protest, protected by the constitution.

The NFL also tried to blackball Eric Reid. Thankfully, then-new Panthers owner David Tepper stepped up and signed Reid a year ago, and he has been one of the best players on a defense that has been outstanding. He's still taking a knee, too.

[Not A Serious Person]

Of course, unlike Smuggles, I don't claim to be an expert on Chinese politics and business. I also didn't say to avoid buying AAPL at $90.

Yes, when out of arguments, go to the trusty Ad Hominem.

It was $96, please get it right.

[Pakuni]

The NFL should not suppress Kaepernick's right to protest, and they did not.  I never said he should have been suppressed.

I said the NFL had the right to ban him from using their workplace to protest. Just like your workplace has the right to ask you, or your co-workers, to not use its resources to engage in political protest to their customers.

Kaepernick had six other days of the week to protest, protected by the constitution.

This is about the sixth time you have tried to divert with this whataboutism.  I hope you are finally one with this tangent.

And yet you've complained about pro-HK signs being confiscated at an NBA arena. Isn't that the league's workplace?

And this isn't whataboutiam. It's pointing out, again, your willingness to embrace contradictory positions to suit whatever point you're trying to make (which in both cases seems to be the vilification of outspoken athletes).

[rocket surgeon]

Don't be obtuse.
Fluffy is accurately pointing out that the circumstances of the NBA's relationship with China are far more complex than that of the Kanters and Turkey.

Ok, let me un-obtuse it, sully used a very bad analogy

[Not A Serious Person]

And yet you've complained about pro-HK signs being confiscated at an NBA arena. Isn't that the league's workplace?

And this isn't whataboutiam. It's pointing out, again, your willingness to embrace contradictory positions to suit whatever point you're trying to make (which in both cases seems to be the vilification of outspoken athletes).

The NBA has the right to confiscate the signs.  And I'm sure they confiscate all kinds of signs with all kinds of inappropriate words on them.

The problem is confiscating the free HK signs says in the NBA is imposing Chinese Censorship on Americans in the United States.

I know you are capable of seeing how bad this look is for the NBA.  But hey, if you prefer to remove rational thought and just scream racist, knock yourself out.  I'm sure all the other posters here are enjoying your arguments.

[Pakuni]

The NBA has the right to confiscate the signs.  And I'm sure they confiscate all kinds of signs with all kinds of inappropriate words on them.

The problem is confiscating the free HK signs says in the NBA is imposing Chinese Censorship on Americans in the United States.

I know you are capable of seeing how bad this look is for the NBA.  But hey, if you prefer to remove rational thought and just scream racist, knock yourself out.  I'm sure all the other posters here are enjoying your arguments.

Walks like a duck ...
Now, more copypasta, please. Posters here love it.

[Not A Serious Person]

All he did was like a tweet.


The Future Of Adrian Wojnarowski's Tencent Show Is Up In The Air After He "Liked" Daryl Morey's Hong Kong Tweet

https://deadspin.com/adrian-wojnarowski-upset-former-espn-reporter-who-helpe-1838922338

Deadspin spoke to another source with extensive knowledge of Tencent and Woj in the House. The source, who requested anonymity to protect their job, said the show is not “officially” canceled but that the future production of the show is still being discussed, given the complexity of the situation. ESPN has not responded to yet another request for comment.

The bi-weekly show, which is broadcast by Chinese internet company Tencent in partnership with ESPN, launched in January. It is “the most watched basketball show in the world” according to Wojnarowski’s ESPN bio, but that popularity may be under threat due to the fact that Wojnarowski pissed off a lot of Chinese fans and at least one important business by “liking” Daryl Morey’s now infamous pro-Hong Kong tweet before it was deleted.

[jesmu84]

The NBA has the right to confiscate the signs.  And I'm sure they confiscate all kinds of signs with all kinds of inappropriate words on them.

The problem is confiscating the free HK signs says in the NBA is imposing Chinese Censorship on Americans in the United States.

I know you are capable of seeing how bad this look is for the NBA.  But hey, if you prefer to remove rational thought and just scream racist, knock yourself out.  I'm sure all the other posters here are enjoying your arguments.

Are you aware of the "sign controversy" that exists in the MLS currently?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Disagree. The NBA is dealing with doing what is right, or generating more revenue. Their loss if they do what is right is the NBA loses money.

Kanter is dealing with a brutal dictator threatening his life and that of his family. He risks being kidnapped, or murdered every time he travels, because he spoke the truth to power. I'm sure Kanter would love to swap places and only risk income.

I meant complicated in terms of how the complexity of the situation. Not the severity.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ok, let me un-obtuse it, sully used a very bad analogy

???  You used the analogy. I commented on it.

[Not A Serious Person]

Are you aware of the "sign controversy" that exists in the MLS currently?

No, please detail

[mu03eng]

No, please detail

https://www.theringer.com/2019/10/18/20920019/portland-timbers-major-league-soccer-ban-iron-front-symbol

[mu03eng]

Are you aware of the "sign controversy" that exists in the MLS currently?

It's interesting that you bring that up because it is a tricky topic. I can understand why leagues and/or teams would want to keep political speech out of their games if for no other reason than if you let someone have political speech everyone gets to have that same speech.....which is fine until conflicting and/or offensive speech comes in. However, by and large these games are being played in arenas that are funded/supported by public dollars so why should they be shielded from political speech, if I can hold a sign in a city park why shouldn't I be able to hold the same sign in an arena paid for by my tax dollars?

As to the NBA confiscating the Free HK signs, I believe they have the right to manage their employees like the players so they can't "protest in the workplace" but I don't see how they can manage fans who've been invited in.....I'm sure its in the terms and conditions of the ticket they purchased but it's interesting that they choose to enforce that.

[MU82]

Yes, when out of arguments, go to the trusty Ad Hominem.

It was $96, please get it right.

I don't need "arguments" on this issue. I have an opinion, as do you, as does everybody else. You have absolutely no proof that LeBron will be more to "blame" than Morey for what has happened and what the fallout will be. I, on the other hand, have the indisputable fact that had Morey not tweeted what he did, none of what followed -- including LeBron's dopey comments -- would have happened. Morey's statement set everything else in motion. Everything.

You claim to know everything about everything, Smuggles, and you even admitted that you are "smug" about your own intellectual superiority -- hence the well-deserved nickname. So bringing up an example in which you couldn't have been more wrong works nicely to show you have little credibility.

I am far too lazy to look up the exact price point at which you said only a moron would buy Apple stock, but I'll take you at your word -- meaning those who followed your advice surrendered "only" a 144% gain rather than a 161% gain.

[lawdog77]

How about instead of blaming Morey, or LeBron, we blame the true villain...Chicos, I mean China?

[Jockey]

How about instead of blaming Morey, or LeBron, we blame the true villain...Chicos, I mean China?

It may have oranginated with Morey, but now the problem is all Jina.

[Not A Serious Person]

One more Rant ... About bowing to Chinese money.

In 2013 Nate Silver sold his 538 website site to ESPN. ESPN transferred it to its sister property ABC News in 2018.

Both are owned by Disney, who operates a theme park in China, get a huge chunk of money from their movies in China, and has the rights to NBA basketball.

538 about equally covers sports and politics. But what you will not find on the 538 website is a single reference to the NBA/China controversy. 

You will find an article called “the six biggest stories heading into the NBA regular season.” Again, China is not one. 

You will find a story criticizing Fox News for not cover the Ukraine and Trump hard enough. But not one about the strange silence from ESPN, ABC News or 538 about the NBA/China. (The joke has been that ESPN has so avoided the NBA/China storyline that they have been forced to only talk about sports!)

So add in NateSilver/538/ESPN/ABC/Disney/Bob Iger that want to please their Chinese money.

Everyone truly cares about the less fortunate so long as it does not inconvenience them or their bank account.

Isn’t this the complaint the left has about republicans and corporations?

[Galway Eagle]

One more Rant ... About bowing to Chinese money.

In 2013 Nate Silver sold his 538 website site to ESPN. ESPN transferred it to its sister property ABC News in 2018.

Both are owned by Disney, who operates a theme park in China, get a huge chunk of money from their movies in China, and has the rights to NBA basketball.

538 about equally covers sports and politics. But what you will not find on the 538 website is a single reference to the NBA/China controversy. 

You will find an article called “the six biggest stories heading into the NBA regular season.” Again, China is not one. 

You will find a story criticizing Fox News for not cover the Ukraine and Trump hard enough. But not one about the strange silence from ESPN, ABC News or 538 about the NBA/China. (The joke has been that ESPN has so avoided the NBA/China storyline that they have been forced to only talk about sports!)

So add in NateSilver/538/ESPN/ABC/Disney/Bob Iger that want to please their Chinese money.

Everyone truly cares about the less fortunate so long as it does not inconvenience them or their bank account.

Isn’t this the complaint the left has about republicans and corporations?

One Disney is able to use that money to employ thousands and keep them from being less fortunate by keeping away from China. Fox is simply pandering to a fan base, if they covered Ukraine I'd watch. Two, Disney is a corporation so yes it is a complaint that the left has about corporations. Three did anyone on the left claim that Disney/ESPN/538 was perfect? or is that just a logical fallacy for this rant?

[#UnleashSean]

Are people on scoop defending the act of Americans being censored by other americans due to the whims of a foriegn country? Weird take.