MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Not A Serious Person on October 09, 2019, 12:19:34 PM
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This could turn out to be a bigger disaster for the NBA than kneeling was for the NFL (and make no mistake, kneeling damaged the NFL)
Last night at a game in Philadelphia, a fan was thrown out of the game for having a "Free Hong Kong" sign.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nba-fan-booted-over-hong-kong-support-chinese-money-trumps-free-speech
This could easily turn into dozens of fans, if not many dozens of fans, bringing Pro-Hong Kong, anti-China signs. Does the NBA want to act like their Chinese partners are physically remove them? If not, they will never get back on Chinese TV and lose a ton of revenue.
And this from Slate today ...
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/xinjiang-the-nba-is-running-a-training-camp-in-the-middle-of-one-of-the-worlds-worst-humanitarian-atrocities.html
Yes, the Chinese have concentration camps, complete with organ harvesting. This is too uncomfortable to discuss.
Instead, let's praise Lebron for calling Trump Hitler while he is in China TODAY participating in workouts in the same town these atrocities are happening in.
You're only Hitler if you don't pay LeBron. But if you pay LeBron, go ahead and harvest those livers from the estimated 1.2 million concentration camp prisoners (mostly Muslim) because drunk party leaders pickled their livers and need new ones.
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Also this ...
South park mocked the Chinese in their latest episode, including saying President Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh.
Chinese Censors banned the show in China.
https://twitter.com/SouthPark/status/1179787693871521792?s=20
And the creators of South Park issued an apology on Twitter that mocks the NBA and much as it takes a shot at the Chinese.
Well done!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGS6BaHVUAEjRaL?format=jpg&name=large)
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(It will be interesting to see if the mods close this thread)
This could turn out to be a bigger disaster for the NBA than kneeling was for the NFL (and make no mistake, kneeling damaged the NFL)
Last night at a game in Philadelphia, a fan was thrown out of the game for having a "Free Hong Kong" sign.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nba-fan-booted-over-hong-kong-support-chinese-money-trumps-free-speech
This could easily turn into dozens of fans, if not many dozens of fans, bringing Pro-Hong Kong signs, anti-China signs. Does the NBA want to act like their Chinese partners are physically remove them? If not, they will never get back on Chinese TV and lose a ton of revenue.
And this from Slate today ...
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/xinjiang-the-nba-is-running-a-training-camp-in-the-middle-of-one-of-the-worlds-worst-humanitarian-atrocities.html
Yes, the Chinese have concentration camps, complete with organ harvesting. This is too uncomfortable to discuss.
Instead, let's praise Lebron for calling Trump Hitler while he is in China TODAY participating in workouts in the same town these atrocities are happening in.
You're only Hitler if you don't pay LeBron. But if you pay LeBron, go ahead and harvest those livers from the estimated 1.2 million concentration camp prisoners (mostly Muslim) because drunk party leaders pickled their livers and need new ones.
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Also this ...
South park mocked the Chinese in their latest episode, including saying President Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh.
Chinese Censors banned the show in China.
https://twitter.com/SouthPark/status/1179787693871521792?s=20
And the creators of South Park issued an apology on Twitter that mocks the NBA and much as it takes a shot at the Chinese.
Well done!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGS6BaHVUAEjRaL?format=jpg&name=large)
That is a great way to start off a thread. It was so good that I read the first sentence and skipped the rest.
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That is a great way to start off a thread. It was so good that I read the first sentence and skipped the rest.
Coming form you is a great endorsement to read the entire thing.
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Could've been interesting to discuss had you not thrown in partisan snippets that took away from the issue at hand.
Sad.
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So ... speaking up for freedom in now a controversial stance?
Money trumps EVERYTHING.
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Interesting that the same guy who believed the NFL should have banned kneeling players to preserve its bottom line is mad at the NBA for cowtowing to China to preserve its bottom line.
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Interesting that the same guy who believed the NFL should have banned kneeling players to preserve its bottom line is mad at the NBA for cowtowing to China to preserve its bottom line.
Lol.
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Interesting that the same guy who believed the NFL should have banned kneeling players to preserve its bottom line is mad at the NBA for cowtowing to China to preserve its bottom line.
Lol.
Interesting how these guys can twist concentration camps, murder, and human organ harvesting into something they think gives them the moral high ground.
Very sad
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Bloomberg - One Tweet Could Cost NBA Billions of Dollars in China
The NBA's Houston Rockets tweeted an image of a slogan supporting Hong Kong’s pro-democracy protesters on Friday. The tweet was quickly deleted, but not before causing a huge backlash in China. The league says 800 million people in China watch the games. Bloomberg's Janet Paskin appears on "Bloomberg Markets." (Source: Bloomberg)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-10-07/one-tweet-could-cost-nba-billions-of-dollars-in-china-video
WE LOVE YOU CHINA - James Harden (third largest selling jersey in China)
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Yes, China cedes the moral high ground. See: all things you mentioned plus Hong Kong. They have been pressuring so many for so many years. Whether or not to recognize Taiwan. Constantly commenting on anything that is critical of them. The fact that they would lose their crap over one NBA GM's tweet speaks volumes. And here we are. Options: Give in to their pressure, make money. Embrace free speech and condemn their actions, lose money. The eternal conundrum, principle or principal.
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Interesting how these guys can twist concentration camps, murder, and human organ harvesting into something they think gives them the moral high ground.
Very sad
Somebody's lacking attention lately. Lol.
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Interesting how these guys can twist concentration camps, murder, and human organ harvesting into something they think gives them the moral high ground.
Very sad
Not sure what moral high ground has to do with anything here. I'm just pointing out your willingness to embrace contradictory positions as long as they allow you to bash black athletes.
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Apple removed Taiwan flag emoji resulting from Chinese pressure.
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Apple stock also is up more than 150% since Heisy Smuggles III said to avoid it at all costs.
IBTL
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The eternal conundrum, principle or principal.
In America, principal always wins. That goes right back to the beginning. The Founding Fathers used Enlightenment ideas, but only to justify being pissed off about taxation. Thomas Jefferson hated slavery but wouldn't free his own slaves because it would financially ruin him.
Looks like the NBA is taking a page from the same book.
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Not sure what moral high ground has to do with anything here. I'm just pointing out your willingness to embrace contradictory positions as long as they allow you to bash black athletes.
You are a disgusting person.
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Jason Whitlock chimes in
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6093294902001/#sp=show-clips
WHITLOCK: The shoe companies, Nike, Adidas, they run American basketball from the high school level all the way to the pros and the shoe companies are dependent on the China market and that’s where all of this is coming from.
You see NBA players constantly over the summer during their off-season running to China to do the bidding of their shoe companies and to sell their shoes in the China market.
And so the NBA is really being exposed as not nearly as much of American business as it is a global business with China perhaps having more influence over it than even America.
WHITLOCK: They’re doing the bidding of the shoe companies demonizing us and our culture and dramatically changing our culture because these athletes are young.
They don’t understand how they’re being used and played to promote a communist, a Marxist agenda. They have no idea that their actions and a lot of the things they’re promoting, this victim mentality, and all the identity politics and, “Oh everything in America’s racist,” all of that. It’s all a scam by the shoe companies. “Look how socially aware we are, look how we fight against injustice.”
No. You’re actually doing a marketing ploy to pretend you have a social conscience and you’re actually doing the bidding of the communist regime in China.
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You are a disgusting person.
Got a bit close to the bone, I guess.
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The NBA is in a tough place. I think the biggest problem is not that they are playing there, although that is concerning. The biggest problem is how they are kowtowing to them. If you aren't going to allow fans to hold up signs of protest, I think you've gone too far to suck up to a market.
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Interesting that the same guy who believed the NFL should have banned kneeling players to preserve its bottom line is mad at the NBA for cowtowing to China to preserve its bottom line.
Legit LOL
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What if a player kneeled during the Chinese national anthem?
:o :o :o
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What’ll if a college basketball team shoplifted a bunch of stuff...if only they were paid for their likeness they would never have shoplifted.
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Ditto Steve Kerr that mouths off on anything/everything Woke. But now he is silent and has to "educate himself" on the issues. When has an understanding of what he is saying ever stopped him before? A total POS
You know nothing about Steve Kerr and what kind of person he is.
One thing he isn't is "a total POS."
You sure you weren't looking in the mirror when you typed that, Smuggles?
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Apple stock also is up more than 150% since Heisy Smuggles III said to avoid it at all costs.
IBTL
Since you brought up Apple. An organization over-run with Woke-ness and complains bitterly about police tactics in the US.
But again, when confronted with something about a million times worse, the Chinese government, they completely cave to the almighty dollar
Save your sanctimonious talk Mr. Cook ....
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/9/20907228/apple-quartz-app-store-china-removal-hong-kong-protests-censorship
News organization Quartz tells The Verge that Apple has removed its mobile app from the Chinese version of its App Store after complaints from the Chinese government. According to Quartz, this is due to the publication’s ongoing coverage of the Hong Kong protests, and the company says its entire website has also been blocked from being accessed in mainland China.
(What would Apple's response be to American police if they asked for something similar?)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kong-app.html
Apple removed an app on Wednesday that enabled protesters in Hong Kong to track police, a day after facing intense criticism from Chinese state media for it, plunging the technology giant deeper into the increasingly politicized atmosphere in China.
Apple said it was removing the app, called HKmap.live, from its iPhone App Store just days after approving it because authorities in Hong Kong said protesters were using it to attack police there.
A day earlier, People’s Daily, the flagship newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, published an editorial that accused Apple of aiding “rioters” in Hong Kong. “Letting poisonous software have its way is a betrayal of the Chinese people’s feelings,” said the article, which was written under a pseudonym, “Calming the Waves.”
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300+ NBA players. What if one, or a few, want to wear "free HK" socks. Is the NBA going to suspend them? Do they really want to go there? And what about the hundreds of millions they get from China? The Chinese will not stand for it.
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Bigger picture. The NBA strutted around like a peacock for taking the all-star game out of Charlotte because of a transgender bathroom bill.
But now they are trying to ignore massive human rights abuses in China so they can continue to take their money.
Adam Silver is the biggest hypocrite on the planet. He forfeits any moral high ground he thinks the NBA has.
Ditto Steve Kerr that mouths off on anything/everything Woke. But now he is silent and has to "educate himself" on the issues. When has an understanding of what he is saying ever stopped him before? A total POS
The NBA ... They will not go to the White House, but they will go to happily go to a country that murders political prisoners.
Yeah this is bullsh*t.
Just because someone doesn’t speak out every time injustice exists doesn’t mean they are hypocrites for pointing out when it does.
Do I think the NBA should do more wrt China? Yes. But that doesn’t mean they should be faulted for standing up to injustice previously.
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Today in Heisyville, where the spittle flies fast and furious...
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Yeah this is bullsh*t.
Just because someone doesn’t speak out every time injustice exists doesn’t mean they are hypocrites for pointing out when it does.
Do I think the NBA should do more wrt China? Yes. But that doesn’t mean they should be faulted for standing up to injustice previously.
NBA put themselves in a no win position with regards to China. Basketball players, too, with massive shoe deals. You can’t shake your hand with the devil and say you’re only kidding.
I don’t dismiss their previous stances or opinions. It’s easy for some to do because it scores political points and reinforces personal bias. All this has done is, give ammunition to those who want them to shut up and sports for them. It’s a shame because the league had done a great job making it a players league.
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I've heard enough stupid stuff fall out of his mouth to know he is a POS.
Since you brought up Apple. An organization over-run with Woke-ness and complains bitterly about police tactics in the US.
Again, you know nothing about Kerr.
All I said about Apple is that you couldn't possibly have been more wrong about the stock. So that's two things you know nothing about.
The rest ... I'm not going down another one of your sinkholes.
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Regarding Apple, the hits just keep on coming ....
Apple Deletes Taiwanese Flag Emoji From Hong Kong iPhones
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/apple-deletes-taiwanese-flag-emoji-hong-kong-iphones
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And, it happened again last night ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/10/10/free-hong-kong-demonstrators-disrupt-wizards-preseason-game-against-chinese-team/
Before the Wizards’ 137-98 victory, members of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation stood outside two arena entrances handing out “Free Hong Kong” T-shirts and holding signs admonishing the NBA for its initial handling of the fast-moving story that has mushroomed into a political battleground involving free speech and the league’s financial interest in China.
The NBA now painfully realizes this will never stop and they are in an impossible position that they will defend anyone with a sign criticizing the US government while tossing anyone with a sign criticizing the Chinese Government.
They are going to lose all their China money and, as was noted in the other thread, they are already making plans to REDUCE the salary cap by 15% next year. Expect the players to consider striking over the impending pay cut.
Two telling comments on CNBC this morning ...
"This situation is so uncomfortable that ESPN is now forced to only talk about sports!"
"For decades we were told to engage with China and we would bring our morals and yearning for freedom to China. Instead, as the NBA and Apple are showing, the Chinese are exporting their hardline censorship to the US."
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I've heard enough stupid stuff fall out of his mouth to know he is a POS.
Yes, it is stupid stuff that you think makes sense which is why this offends you. No surprise here.
So tell us a wise one. Why was moving the all-star game out of your city a good idea but the NBA needs to squelch any criticism of China?
Is the NBA a good useless liberal? That is, criticize the stupid plastic straws but shy away from ever criticizing the world's largest polluter or the country that has 1.5 million Muslims in concentration camps ... China.
Deal with this Mr. Silver, show some REAL courage Steve Kerr and take on this issue ....
(if it helps Kerr and Silver get some morals and courage, tell them that China adheres to the same bathroom rules as Charlotte!)
Why Is the NBA in Xinjiang?
The league is running a training center in the middle of one of the world’s worst humanitarian atrocities.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/xinjiang-the-nba-is-running-a-training-camp-in-the-middle-of-one-of-the-worlds-worst-humanitarian-atrocities.html
In Oct. 2016, the NBA set up one of its three Chinese training centers in, of all places, Ürümqi, the capital of Xinjiang and site of massive race riots in 2009 that left hundreds dead. The center, which houses roughly 240 student-athletes ages 14 to 18, according to its website, has kept a very low profile. That’s unsurprising—because the NBA presence in Xinjiang is shameful.
Over the past few years, Xinjiang has become ground zero for a repressive revolution into a total control state. Think less George Orwell and more Michel Foucault, the philosopher of power who described a system of total control as a “cruel, ingenious cage.” Shoppers often must allow their faces to be scanned just to enter markets around the vast region. Passing through dozens of checkpoints on an April trip to Xinjiang, the American Ph.D. student Darren Byler was struck by the casual racism. Uighurs were required to scan their IDs and faced far longer lines and police harassment. Han Chinese—who make up roughly 92 percent of China’s population, and roughly half of Xinjiang’s population of 22 million—did not. “During my entire trip, I did not see a Han individual produce his or her ID, or even pause for a moment to wonder if they should,” he wrote.
NBA stars like LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony have condemned police violence and racism in the United States, while players and executives have protested the Trump administration’s separation of immigrant children from their parents. According to his LinkedIn page, the NBA executive George Land oversees the Xinjiang training center. On Twitter, Land’s most recent activity is a retweet of the MSNBC host Chris Hayes condemning the U.S. separation of thousands of mothers from their children. But what about Xinjiang? Thousands of Uighur children are reportedly languishing in orphanages, awaiting their parents’ release from the concentration camps. The NBA didn’t respond to multiple requests for comment for this story. Nor did Land. Nor did China’s foreign ministry. (In a response to the recent United Nations report, a senior Chinese official denied the reports of torture and persecution of Uighurs and said that the camps were for “criminals involved only in minor offenses,” to teach them vocational skills.)
Retired Lakers star Kobe Bryant, still one of the most popular players in China, said on a September 2017 visit to China that watching NBA games as a child “inspired me to dream and helped me become creative. I’m very excited that the kids here also have that same opportunity.”
Good for the NBA for encouraging Chinese kids to dream. Now it’s time to stop turning a blind eye to Muslim kids’ nightmares.
Is the NBA a good useless liberal? What? Lol.
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Cool! The politics board is alive again!
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Cool! The politics board is alive again!
You kept it going through at least two weeks ago, so not sure why this is a shocker to you. Oh, we know you thought you were being subtle and clever in your comments, but people aren’t dumb.
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Cool! The politics board is alive again!
Heisey is unbalanced, he can't help himself. I mean, frothing at the mouth imbalanced.
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Heisey is unbalanced, he can't help himself. I mean, frothing at the mouth imbalanced.
C'mon guys. Heisey cares deeply about human rights abuses in China, and totally isn't using the situation to lash out at those who've offended him for their political views in the past.
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Protesting human rights violations in America is bad if it hurts the NFL's bottom line. Not protesting human rights violations in China is bad for the NBA, even though to do so even a little bit hurts the bottom line.
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Protesting human rights violations in America is bad if it hurts the NFL's bottom line. Not protesting human rights violations in China is bad for the NBA is bad, even though to do so even a little bit hurts the bottom line.
This is the heart of it.
The actual "bad thing" according to some is shining a light on our own warts. Pointing a finger and demonizing an outside/other? Do it to your heart's content... in fact, it's your moral obligation to do so.
Glass houses.
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Get a load of that terrible authoritarian country over in the Eastern Hemisphere! We must call out this injustice, it would be hypocritical not to do so!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Prisoners_world_map_png2.png/800px-Prisoners_world_map_png2.png)(http://)
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Lakers and Nets played last night in front of a sold out crowd. People were wondering if Silver would cancel or China not allow them to play.
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It is really sad that you think this way and are incapable of telling the difference between the two.
Lots of "plastic straw" lefties here ... take on the useless and meaningless, merely to make yourself feel good, and look away at the hard stuff.
"Somebody called out my blatant hypocrisy. I know absolutely nothing about their political view, but the fact that they called out the definition of hypocrisy means they are unquestionably a 'plastic straw' lefty."
You wanted attention. You're getting your attention. Just keep going with the shock value statements, no matter how stupid you look, and you'll be satisfied because today, MUScoop gave you some attention!
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Lakers and Nets played last night in front of a sold out crowd. People were wondering if Silver would cancel or China not allow them to play.
All advertising was removed. The only signage was "NBA 2019." Players not allowed to talk to the press, and no post-game presser (by order of the Chinese Government). Immediately after the game got on a bus to the airport.
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This is the heart of it.
The actual "bad thing" according to some is shining a light on our own warts. Pointing a finger and demonizing an outside/other? Do it to your heart's content... in fact, it's your moral obligation to do so.
Glass houses.
We allow protesting of our Government and praise it as a sign of woke-ness. But we censor players and fans that want to protest the Chinese Government.
No glass house, you have it exactly backward.
Please educate yourself before you open your mouth, stop acting like Steve Kerr.
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"Somebody called out my blatant hypocrisy. I know absolutely nothing about their political view, but the fact that they called out the definition of hypocrisy means they are unquestionably a 'plastic straw' lefty."
You wanted attention. You're getting your attention. Just keep going with the shock value statements, no matter how stupid you look, and you'll be satisfied because today, MUScoop gave you some attention!
It's telling that in his initial post that started this nonsense, Heisey didn't direct his outrage at Adam Silver or any other league executive for building the NBA's ties with China. He didn't denounce Tilman Fertitta or any other owner for their part in it.
The bad guy in his book is LeBron James, for daring to be in China because the league and his employer required him to be in China.
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We allow protesting of our Government and praise it as a sign of woke-ness. But we censor players and fans that want to protest the Chinese Government.
No glass house, you have it exactly backward.
Please educate yourself before you open your mouth, stop acting like Steve Kerr.
Protesting the government isn’t a sign of “woke-ness.” It’s a sign of being an American.
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Heisey probably won't reply today. I think he took an unscheduled staycation.
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It’s not like Steve Kerr has any personal history dealing with complicated world regions.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/the-assassination-of-steve-kerrs-father-and-the-unlikely-story-of-a-champion/amp
It’s easy to bash him for some but the man knows better than most the world is a dangerous place and more complicated than bloviating on things you know little about
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This situation is so loaded in many ways. And part of the reason I liked Silver's original comment that infuriated the Chinese so much. In an increasingly partisan world where everything is black and white, grey not allowed, the Chinese all or nothing mentality isn't so foreign.
One of the most alarming sentiments Ive seen pop up a decent amount is this over the top "well if you do business in China, and accept Chinese revenue, you're supporting and condoning their regime" which is so naive and narrow minded.
Ive been very open in these threads at how upset I am about HK, and the progressive loss of what made/makes HK great, both from a social and from a business perspective. And I have little respect for censorship, data soverignty, and a number of other tentpoles of the CCP. But at the same time, I'm in a business that has a lot of growth opportunity in China and views China as a key market. For many products/industries, the US and Europe is a developed market. There is minimal growth, lots of attrition, and if you rely solely on these markets, you're a lost contract or two away from a world of hurt. China, even with slowing growth and associated other issues, is a huge consumer market. Many companies seek to business and sell to consumers there, and don't need to cut sweetheart deals or cater to the government to do so. So I can see the difficulty of the NBA's position.
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You can make parallel arguments about many countries. Russia. Saufi Arabia. India. And so many things can upset these international relations.
I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way. So I pick my fights. It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country. But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better. You may fail. But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.
In other words, LeBron can't fix China. But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America. And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.
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Well stated Tower
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You can make parallel arguments about many countries. Russia. Saufi Arabia. India. And so many things can upset these international relations.
I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way. So I pick my fights. It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country. But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better. You may fail. But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.
In other words, LeBron can't fix China. But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America. And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.
Great post - another example of why you are annually in the running for MVP (Most Valuable Poster).
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You can make parallel arguments about many countries. Russia. Saufi Arabia. India. And so many things can upset these international relations.
I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way. So I pick my fights. It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country. But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better. You may fail. But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.
In other words, LeBron can't fix China. But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America. And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.
Heres where I'll disagree with you. The Chinese government, Chinese state media, and the Nets owner all put out statements that essentially were the Chinese version of shut up and dribble. I support the players league not shutting up but it at minimum cheapens their principles and stance if they choose to not shut up and dribble when it is economically convenient to do so.
I 100% support people staying out of the HK debate but this has become a larger issue of freedom of expression and what does it say to people when you abandon your principles for economic expediency?
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Noted. Opinion respected. I am not going to pretend that there isn't wisdom there.
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Soooooo damned easy.
IN BEFORE THE LOCK
ND sucks
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Heres where I'll disagree with you. The Chinese government, Chinese state media, and the Nets owner all put out statements that essentially were the Chinese version of shut up and dribble. I support the players league not shutting up but it at minimum cheapens their principles and stance if they choose to not shut up and dribble when it is economically convenient to do so.
I 100% support people staying out of the HK debate but this has become a larger issue of freedom of expression and what does it say to people when you abandon your principles for economic expediency?
I think it’s more than shut up and dribble. It’s “you’re not allowed to have opinions contrary to ours”. The “stick to sports” crowd doesn’t want athletes talking social/political at all, and get more vocal when someone speaks out differently than they think. China would be perfectly happy if Morey was tweeting pro-China sentiment.
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I think it’s more than shut up and dribble. It’s “you’re not allowed to have opinions contrary to ours”. The “stick to sports” crowd doesn’t want athletes talking social/political at all, and get more vocal when someone speaks out differently than they think. China would be perfectly happy if Morey was tweeting pro-China sentiment.
Read the quotes again, especially from the Nets owner.....he is saying if you aren't Chinese you can't understand and it is an untouchable topic for you. That is stick to sports. And maybe I misunderstood you point but I'm not sure that shut up unless you become a propagandist is a more acceptable position than shut up and dribble
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Read the quotes again, especially from the Nets owner.....he is saying if you aren't Chinese you can't understand and it is an untouchable topic for you. That is stick to sports. And maybe I misunderstood you point but I'm not sure that shut up unless you become a propagandist is a more acceptable position than shut up and dribble
First of all, it’s definitely not any better or more acceptable. Just pointing out the difference in the Chinese mindset about it compared to the shut up and dribble mindset here.
And I’ve read his comments multiple times. To me it reads like everyone else outside of their control pretty much thinks China is over the top and out of bounds, so the response is “you’re not Chinese, you can’t understand and here’s why and that’s why we’re justified doing whatever we want”. It’s similar to someone disagreeing with you and hitting you with with “you’re not intelligent/worldly/experienced enough to understand”. If you sided with them, then it wouldn’t matter if you weren’t Chinese, they’d happily use you to further their message and goals.
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First of all, it’s definitely not any better or more acceptable. Just pointing out the difference in the Chinese mindset about it compared to the shut up and dribble mindset here.
And I’ve read his comments multiple times. To me it reads like everyone else outside of their control pretty much thinks China is over the top and out of bounds, so the response is “you’re not Chinese, you can’t understand and here’s why and that’s why we’re justified doing whatever we want”. It’s similar to someone disagreeing with you and hitting you with with “you’re not intelligent/worldly/experienced enough to understand”. If you sided with them, then it wouldn’t matter if you weren’t Chinese, they’d happily use you to further their message and goals.
Yeah I just think it's a distinction without a difference.....pretty sure if Kaepernick were kneeling for police that Trump and his flock would be cool with it too
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Heres where I'll disagree with you. The Chinese government, Chinese state media, and the Nets owner all put out statements that essentially were the Chinese version of shut up and dribble. I support the players league not shutting up but it at minimum cheapens their principles and stance if they choose to not shut up and dribble when it is economically convenient to do so.
I 100% support people staying out of the HK debate but this has become a larger issue of freedom of expression and what does it say to people when you abandon your principles for economic expediency?
+1. IMHO there's nothing terribly heroic in taking a stand on a controversial issue in a free society that's pretty much split down the middle. CK was out (or at least on his way out) of football, now he's the very well paid face of Nike. Lebron publicly hating everything Trump probably helps his image among most NBA fans. Adam Silver is all about free speech for his players - except re China. Taking even a small stand against the devil when he'll stop paying you over it - that's where they all draw the line. It's all about the Benjamins.
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You can make parallel arguments about many countries. Russia. Saufi Arabia. India. And so many things can upset these international relations.
I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way. So I pick my fights. It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country. But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better. You may fail. But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.
In other words, LeBron can't fix China. But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America. And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.
It’s the hypocrisy part people struggle with. The same reason why people are so turned off by celebs abs talking heads preaching about climate or something else, but doing the exact opposite. No doubt the power of their voice they think they can do something, and their egos certainly confirm it, but they shouldn’t be surprised when people ask them to walk the walk.
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+1. IMHO there's nothing terribly heroic in taking a stand on a controversial issue in a free society that's pretty much split down the middle. CK was out (or at least on his way out) of football, now he's the very well paid face of Nike. Lebron publicly hating everything Trump probably helps his image among most NBA fans. Adam Silver is all about free speech for his players - except re China. Taking even a small stand against the devil when he'll stop paying you over it - that's where they all draw the line. It's all about the Benjamins.
Agree.
Freedom and decency are tough sells these days.
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The NBA is no bull in a China shop!
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You can make parallel arguments about many countries. Russia. Saufi Arabia. India. And so many things can upset these international relations.
I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way. So I pick my fights. It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country. But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better. You may fail. But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.
In other words, LeBron can't fix China. But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America. And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.
Superb post in an absolute dumpster fire of a thread.
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Superb post in an absolute dumpster fire of a thread.
It was pretty bad early but this thread isn't even the worst one on the Superbar
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You know nothing about Steve Kerr and what kind of person he is.
One thing he isn't is "a total POS."
You sure you weren't looking in the mirror when you typed that, Smuggles?
Steve Kerr, nice guy, smart guy, good coach, respected by many. But his moral equivalency of us “mowing down people in malls with AR’s” was not even close to china’s executing hundreds of thousands of their enemies to harvest their organs and millions of Muslims in concentration camps...one cannot even approach chinas HR abuses and use them in the same sentence as society in America having evil people doing evil things. China is led by evil people doing horrendous things (every day)without any pushback.
The comparison was lazy at best which tells you a lot about the person making the comment-he is willing to turn his head on millions and millions of abuses because we get an occasional dipwad doing some evil chit. Here’s the difference, if we want to make one- our evil person, if they don’t get shot or commit suicide by cop of themselves, gets punitive action. In China, their horrendous actions are the norm and since they are carried out by 5he state, no consequences. No one like stee Kerr comes out an exposed them...why?
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This is the heart of it.
The actual "bad thing" according to some is shining a light on our own warts. Pointing a finger and demonizing an outside/other? Do it to your heart's content... in fact, it's your moral obligation to do so.
Glass houses.
The equivalency of our political actions, human rights, etc aren’t even in the same stratosphere as China. Disgusting to even try
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Steve Kerr, nice guy, smart guy, good coach, respected by many. But his moral equivalency of us “mowing down people in malls with AR’s” was not even close to china’s executing hundreds of thousands of their enemies to harvest their organs and millions of Muslims in concentration camps...one cannot even approach chinas HR abuses and use them in the same sentence as society in America having evil people doing evil things. China is led by evil people doing horrendous things (every day)without any pushback.
The comparison was lazy at best which tells you a lot about the person making the comment-he is willing to turn his head on millions and millions of abuses because we get an occasional dipwad doing some evil chit. Here’s the difference, if we want to make one- our evil person, if they don’t get shot or commit suicide by cop of themselves, gets punitive action. In China, their horrendous actions are the norm and since they are carried out by 5he state, no consequences. No one like stee Kerr comes out an exposed them...why?
Huh?
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Huh?
If I knew Chinese, I’d give you their version 🤣
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LeBron just decided to add some fuel to the fire for the NBA/China issue.
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LeBron just decided to add some fuel to the fire for the NBA/China issue.
Yeah, he's getting dragged on Twitter right now. Maybe he spoke his real beliefs though because any other approach would make more sense then the one he took tonight.
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LeBron just decided to add some fuel to the fire for the NBA/China issue.
Essentially what Lebron said today was, Shame on him for not thinking about money before tweeting about the safety and rights of Hong Kong protestors.
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I know I shouldn't be, but I'm a bit surprised how the NBA, up and down the line is throwing basic freedoms under the bus to support China.
It really turns me off to the NBA, and even being a Bulls fan hadn't quite done that.
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Contrast Lebron's opinion today with.... https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1183944777550745600
Oh, and Enes Kanter is not a fan. https://twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1183949336901816326?s=20
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I know I shouldn't be, but I'm a bit surprised how the NBA, up and down the line is throwing basic freedoms under the bus to support China.
It really turns me off to the NBA, and even being a Bulls fan hadn't quite done that.
I'm not mad, I'm.....I'm just disappointed.
I will say, this kind of epic failure I would have expected out of the NFL way before I thought the NBA would step in it this bad
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Don’t worry, soon we will have someone post how great Nike’s earnings are and that’s all that matters apparently.
Nike is so woke, accept when their supply chain and potential billions of customers are on the line.
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Don’t worry, soon we will have someone post how great Nike’s earnings are and that’s all that matters apparently.
Nike is so woke, accept when their supply chain and potential billions of customers are on the line.
You mean "Except"
Also Nike is not "woke" they've never been "woke" anyone with half a brain knows they aren't "woke" maybe their marketing department in the US knows that their customer base and sponsors want to appear "woke" but most people are stupid and don't research things.
https://goodonyou.eco/how-ethical-is-nike-e03/?utm_expid=.HxunaBriRCGYXup3LBQVKQ.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
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Right. The whole reason Nike came out in support of Kaepernick was because its reasearch showed them it was a good idea. It's not as though they provided that support immediately after his first started kneeing.
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Yeah, Nike has acted just like Lebron.....making stands when it is at worst economically neutral. Take the Betsy Ross shoes they pulled because CK objected, yes it got bad press initially but it gives them further cred with the folks they are trying to sell too. Lebron's problem is that with this China thing the folks who are providing the revenue are on the opposite side of the principled stand instead of the same side.
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Yeah, Nike has acted just like Lebron.....making stands when it is at worst economically neutral. Take the Betsy Ross shoes they pulled because CK objected, yes it got bad press initially but it gives them further cred with the folks they are trying to sell too. Lebron's problem is that with this China thing the folks who are providing the revenue are on the opposite side of the principled stand instead of the same side.
Whether it is the NBA, or Lebron, or really anyone else, those with great wealth will step on and exploit whomever they need so they can maintain and build that wealth.
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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852132/protesters-trample-burn-lebron-james-jerseys-hong-kong
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Whether it is the NBA, or Lebron, or really anyone else, those with great wealth will step on and exploit whomever they need so they can maintain and build that wealth.
Ding ding ding. Capitalism.
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Ding ding ding. Capitalism.
No. It is avarice.
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No. It is avarice.
Tomato, tomahto
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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852132/protesters-trample-burn-lebron-james-jerseys-hong-kong
Good!
LeBron is the ultimate self-serving a$$hat. This quote seals it for me:
"Yes, we do have freedom of speech," James said. "But at times there are ramifications for the negative that can happen when you're not thinking about others, when you only think about yourself."
So he doesn't realize that Morey was thinking of others (like, oh say, maybe the oppressed citizens of HK) when he tweeted? If LBJ was being honest, his quote would say "negative things can happen when you tweet without thinking about ME."
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LeBron has always been a phony.
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If LBJ was being honest, his quote would say "negative things can happen when you tweet without thinking about ME."
Honestly, if he said that instead, I might respect him a bit more for at least telling the truth.
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Tomato, tomahto
Tomato, tangerine.
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Tomato, tangerine.
Both fruits!
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Tomato, tomahto
Yeah, we should totally be communist. Then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Because it would be highly regulated by the government elites and any semblance of dissent would result in being put in a reeducation camp or prison. That would be sweet.
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LeBron has always been a phony.
You telling me this isn't legit????
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XUawXQDsJzE/UaWV-XbcrcI/AAAAAAAAHz4/nXiIpNlpmsQ/s1600/LeBron+Davis+West+Double+Flop.gif)
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Yeah, we should totally be communist. Then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Because it would be highly regulated by the government elites and any semblance of dissent would result in being put in a reeducation camp or prison. That would be sweet.
It's a real shame that dog-eat-dog capitalism and totalitarian communism are the only options.
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It's a real shame that dog-eat-dog capitalism and totalitarian communism are the only options.
You come up with something else and I'll listen. So far, capitalism has worked better for more people than anything else.
That being said, it isn't perfect and leads to exploitation. Though in some degree, this exploitation is the result of communist China completely controlling their markets to keep labor costs low, therefore artificially attracting capitalist companies to seek their lowest costs. It is all greed that is leading to strange political bedfellows.
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You come up with something else and I'll listen. So far, capitalism has worked better for more people than anything else.
My point isn't a knock on capitalism, but a knock on the extremes of this discussion, which are framing it as a choice between either accepting/embracing the worst aspects of capitalism or becoming North Korea.
The rejection of the former does not lead to the latter.
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My point isn't a knock on capitalism, but a knock on the extremes of this discussion, which are framing it as a choice between either accepting/embracing the worst aspects of capitalism or becoming North Korea.
The rejection of the former does not lead to the latter.
I misunderstood. My fault. Sorry.
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Doc weighs in:
https://twitter.com/jovanbuha/status/1184259288857923585?s=19
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Doc weighs in:
https://twitter.com/jovanbuha/status/1184259288857923585?s=19
It’s not that hard as Doc showed. Kudos to him.
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Good!
LeBron is the ultimate self-serving a$$hat. This quote seals it for me:
"Yes, we do have freedom of speech," James said. "But at times there are ramifications for the negative that can happen when you're not thinking about others, when you only think about yourself."
So he doesn't realize that Morey was thinking of others (like, oh say, maybe the oppressed citizens of HK) when he tweeted? If LBJ was being honest, his quote would say "negative things can happen when you tweet without thinking about ME."
But morey isn’t informed? The dude has a degree from northwestern and MIT vs lebrons...high school education
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But morey isn’t informed? The dude has a degree from northwestern and MIT vs lebrons...high school education
You can have impressive degrees and still be ignorant. You can not have graduated high school and be brilliant.
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But morey isn’t informed? The dude has a degree from northwestern and MIT vs lebrons...high school education
Morey isn't more informed because of his degrees. He just more informed.
Lebron isn't less informed because of his high school education. He's just less informed.
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Morey isn't more informed because of his degrees. He just more informed.
Lebron isn't less informed because of his high school education. He's just less informed.
Bingo.
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Really bad take by LeBron.
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I would agree with Lebron if he would have simply said, i wish Morey would have waited to speak his opinion until the teams were out of potential harms way.
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But but but king lebrons $pace jam is due out 2021. Maybe he just wants to run out the clock until it’s release in Chine$e
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LeBron has always been a phony.
https://streamable.com/jxkz0
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Matt and trey strike again-
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/south-park-episode-mocks-lebron-james-over-china-comments
I guess this probably means that if you live in China, you ain’t gonna be seeing South Park anytime soon
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I find these comments quite amusing. The following seems to sum up opinion here.
Our gov't does not stand up for human rights in China. People don't care.
American corporations do not stand up for human rights in China. People don't care.
Let's all attack LeBron for not standing up for human rights in China.
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I don't think people are attacking LeBron for not standing up for human rights in China. I think the attacks are because he attacked someone who did.
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I don't think people are attacking LeBron for not standing up for human rights in China. I think the attacks are because he attacked someone who did.
I think his comments about having a bad week is what really pissed people off, in relation to HK and the Uighurs.
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Lebron is free to not engage in the topic as well as to not stand up for human rights in China.
However when he stands up for in the US (while making it seem like that's a hard thing) and then stands against those who are concerned about human rights in China and HK that's where I have an issue with him
It's all about being consistent
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I find these comments quite amusing. The following seems to sum up opinion here.
Our gov't does not stand up for human rights in China. People don't care.
American corporations do not stand up for human rights in China. People don't care.
Let's all attack LeBron for not standing up for human rights in China.
I'm not on board with this in this case. LeBron is American corporations w/r/t the HK situation. They are aligned and one - you can't criticize American corporations on this without criticizing LeBron.
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NBA Commissioner Adam Silver revealed on Thursday that the Chinese government insisted the league fire Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey over a now-deleted October 4 tweet supporting the protesters in Hong Kong, according to Time.
"We made clear that we were being asked to fire him, by the Chinese government, by the parties we dealt with, government and business," Silver said in his first US interview about the league's ongoing free speech scandal. "We said there’s no chance that’s happening. There’s no chance we’ll even discipline him."
Speaking at the TIME 100 Health Summit, Silver noted that "The losses have already been substantial," adding "Our games are not back on the air in China as we speak, and we’ll see what happens next."
https://time.com/5703259/adam-silver-nba-china-time-100-health-summit/
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NBA Commissioner Adam Silver revealed on Thursday that the Chinese government insisted the league fire Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey over a now-deleted October 4 tweet supporting the protesters in Hong Kong, according to Time.
"We made clear that we were being asked to fire him, by the Chinese government, by the parties we dealt with, government and business," Silver said in his first US interview about the league's ongoing free speech scandal. "We said there’s no chance that’s happening. There’s no chance we’ll even discipline him."
Speaking at the TIME 100 Health Summit, Silver noted that "The losses have already been substantial," adding "Our games are not back on the air in China as we speak, and we’ll see what happens next."
https://time.com/5703259/adam-silver-nba-china-time-100-health-summit/
Maybe denis Rodman can help smooth things over...yikes!!😳
Tucker Carlson had him on earlier and, well, he really needs to get off the sauce🤪
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Following up on the post above
If this actually happens as described they will never get back on Chinese TV.
The salary cap is getting cut 15% next year. Thank LeBron, not Morley, for this.
---------------------------------
NBA Fan Raises $43K For "Stand With Hong Kong" T-Shirts As Protesters Torch LeBron Jerseys
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nba-fan-raises-43k-stand-hong-kong-t-shirts-protesters-torch-lebron-jerseys
(https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/42543708_1571222399958073_r.jpeg?itok=MDJCybe2)
A Los Angeles lakers fan has raised just under $43,000 in under 48 hours via GoFundMe for a run of "Stand with Hong Kong" t-shirts to hand out during the October 22 season opener at the Staples Center, according to LAist. The anonymous NBA fan who organized the fundraise, "Sun Lared," says he had to disable new donations because he blew past his initial target of $20,000 after over 1,500 donations poured in from all over the world.
With shirts costing just under $3 each, the plan is to order 16,000-plus shirts, enough to outfit most spectators in the 20,000-person capacity arena.
The NBA fan, who's going by the pseudonym "Sun Lared," does not want his identity revealed to the public, he said, in order to protect his and his family's privacy and avoid the wrath of Chinese netizens. He said he's never engaged in activism before, but felt compelled to do something after seeing China crack down on the NBA this week. -LAist
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Enes kantor has some very interesting comments for lebron
Freedom is not free...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/celtics/2019/10/15/lebron-james-morey-china-comments-enes-kanter-freedom-turkey/3983357002/
Hopefully lebron is getting educated a little
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Lebron's comments were really dumb, but what the NBA is dealing with in China is much more complicated than what Kanter is dealing with in Turkey.
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Lebron's comments were really dumb, but what the NBA is dealing with in China is much more complicated than what Kanter is dealing with in Turkey.
Disagree. The NBA is dealing with doing what is right, or generating more revenue. Their loss if they do what is right is the NBA loses money.
Kanter is dealing with a brutal dictator threatening his life and that of his family. He risks being kidnapped, or murdered every time he travels, because he spoke the truth to power. I'm sure Kanter would love to swap places and only risk income.
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If this actually happens as described they will never get back on Chinese TV.
The salary cap is getting cut 15% next year. Thank LeBron, not Morley, for this.
Why? The Chinese government was incensed at Morey (not Morley). They even insisted he be fired. LeBron's comments came days and days later.
LeBron's comments were hypocritical and ignorant, but why, oh knower of all things, should he be blamed if China effectively bans the NBA?
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I'm not on board with this in this case. LeBron is American corporations w/r/t the HK situation. They are aligned and one - you can't criticize American corporations on this without criticizing LeBron.
I don’t disagree with you, Burrows. Absolutely, Lebron has only himself to blame for much of the criticism.
But, undoubtedly, there are people here criticizing Lebron for not standing up to China that are typing their responses on - you guessed it - a phone made in China. They support, economically, the country that violates human rights while criticizing others for basically doing the same. And I certainly don’t exclude myself from this either as I respond on my iPhone.
But, let’s face it; much of the criticism is simply coming from Lebron haters.
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Lebron is free to not engage in the topic as well as to not stand up for human rights in China.
However when he stands up for in the US (while making it seem like that's a hard thing) and then stands against those who are concerned about human rights in China and HK that's where I have an issue with him
It's all about being consistent
Agree
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Why? The Chinese government was incensed at Morey (not Morley). They even insisted he be fired. LeBron's comments came days and days later.
LeBron's comments were hypocritical and ignorant, but why, oh knower of all things, should he be blamed if China effectively bans the NBA?
Because LeBron's ignorant statement created the backlash that will result (if the story above is accurate) in 16,000 of the 20,000 at the Lakers Opener wearing Free HK shirts.
It will not end with the one-act at this one game. Protesting China will become "the thing to do" at every NBA game. It will impossible for the NBA to get back on Chinese TV.
This was going away before LeBron motivated everyone with his stupid comment.
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And what does it mean in dollars? According to the link below, the 450 to 500 players are taking a $500 million hit next year. This means the average player is taking $1m to $1.2m hit next year.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/10/09/nba-china-hong-kong-whats-at-stake/3912447002/
NBA revenue from China -- and a conservative estimate puts that at $500 million annually based on deals that are publicly known -- is part of basketball-related income which impacts the salary cap and how much money is available to players on an annual basis.
In July, China’s Tencent reached a five-year, $1.5 billion deal to remain the league’s exclusive digital partner in China, and it is the NBA's largest partnership outside of the U.S. CCTV has a lucrative financial partnership with the NBA televising multiple games live each week, including coverage of the playoffs.
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Lebron's comments were really dumb, but what the NBA is dealing with in China is much more complicated than what Kanter is dealing with in Turkey.
Really?? So the nba could die?? Does the nba fear being kidnapped? Surely you want a do over here
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So, LeBron's comments were dumb and better left unsaid and he largely deserves the grief he's getting.
But while we're riding atop our high horses and calling others hypocrites, maybe take a moment to look around your home or office. Are you reading this on an iPhone or computer manufactured with the cheap labor made possible by the oppressive Chinese regime? Where were the components made in your 55" LED TV? Who made your clothes, furniture and bedding? I'm guessing it wasn't a well-compensated worker in a safe environment who enjoys the same political and economic freedoms you do. And you're paying less for your consumer goods because of that.
Fact is, the NBA isn't along in benefiting economically from business relationships. We all are. When it comes to China, we're all hypocrites.
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Lebron is free to not engage in the topic as well as to not stand up for human rights in China.
However when he stands up for in the US (while making it seem like that's a hard thing) and then stands against those who are concerned about human rights in China and HK that's where I have an issue with him
It's all about being consistent
Ya.
This is one of LeBron's tweets:
https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/952902403422150657?s=19
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Really?? So the nba could die?? Does the nba fear being kidnapped? Surely you want a do over here
Don't be obtuse.
Fluffy is accurately pointing out that the circumstances of the NBA's relationship with China are far more complex than that of the Kanters and Turkey.
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I don’t disagree with you, Burrows. Absolutely, Lebron has only himself to blame for much of the criticism.
But, undoubtedly, there are people here criticizing Lebron for not standing up to China that are typing their responses on - you guessed it - a phone made in China. They support, economically, the country that violates human rights while criticizing others for basically doing the same. And I certainly don’t exclude myself from this either as I respond on my iPhone.
But, let’s face it; much of the criticism is simply coming from Lebron haters.
Somewhat disagree.
LeBron came off as greedy, as he was advocating for Chinese censorship within the US. (China can censor in China, but demanding we censor Americans to Chinese standards in the US is going too far).
This is different than complaining on your Chinese made phone, in your car full of gas from Saudi Arabia, while driving to work at a Briggs & Stratton in Milwaukee, helping them to open more dealerships in Russia.
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So yes, haters gonna hate, but LeBron is also making it easy to hate him.
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So, LeBron's comments were dumb and better left unsaid and he largely deserves the grief he's getting.
But while we're riding atop our high horses and calling others hypocrites, maybe take a moment to look around your home or office. Are you reading this on an iPhone or computer manufactured with the cheap labor made possible by the oppressive Chinese regime? Where were the components made in your 55" LED TV? Who made your clothes, furniture and bedding? I'm guessing it wasn't a well-compensated worker in a safe environment who enjoys the same political and economic freedoms you do. And you're paying less for your consumer goods because of that.
Fact is, the NBA isn't along in benefiting economically from business relationships. We all are. When it comes to China, we're all hypocrites.
All true, but we also aren't in a position to speak out in a way that matters. Lebron has shown his willingness to use his platform to speak out about injustice in the US but chooses to use the same platform to at best stifle discussion around the abuses of the Chinese government.
There is no doubt there are opportunists that are using the hypocrisy of Lebron to chip away at him but let's not assume that's all of it.
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This was going away before LeBron motivated everyone with his stupid comment.
Wrong.
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So, LeBron's comments were dumb and better left unsaid and he largely deserves the grief he's getting.
But while we're riding atop our high horses and calling others hypocrites, maybe take a moment to look around your home or office. Are you reading this on an iPhone or computer manufactured with the cheap labor made possible by the oppressive Chinese regime? Where were the components made in your 55" LED TV? Who made your clothes, furniture and bedding? I'm guessing it wasn't a well-compensated worker in a safe environment who enjoys the same political and economic freedoms you do. And you're paying less for your consumer goods because of that.
Fact is, the NBA isn't along in benefiting economically from business relationships. We all are. When it comes to China, we're all hypocrites.
It is not about using products from those countries. As I noted above, China is demanding Chinese censorship rules inside the US.
It is more akin to Saudi Arabia demanding American Women have to wear Burkas, in the United States, if they want to drive cars with Saudi gas.
Using a product from these countries, THAT CONFORM TO AMERICAN STANDARDS is much less a problem. Demanding Chinese standards have to adopted here is the problem.
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Wrong.
You're entitled to your opinion, thanks for sharing.
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It is not about using products from those countries. As I noted above, China is demanding Chinese censorship rules inside the US.
It is more akin to Saudi Arabia demanding American Women have to wear Burkas, in the United States, if they want to drive cars with Saudi gas.
Using a product from these countries, THAT CONFORM TO AMERICAN STANDARDS is much less a problem. Demanding Chinese standards have to adopted here is the problem.
China cam demand that I somersault my way into the office tomorrow. That's not happening, and neither is the adoption of Chinese standards here.
Do you now believe that it would be wrong for a business to suppress the political speech of its employees if it risks that business' bottom line?
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Wrong.
Disagree it was fading, and Lebron not only had to say something but say something stupid that got all the whataboutists fired up and will likely generate more people to speak out/demonstrate against China which will make China double down.
I mean the burned Lebron jerseys in HK, that's a real bad look
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China cam demand that I somersault my way into the office tomorrow. That's not happening, and neither is the adoption of Chinese standards here.
Do you now believe that it would be wrong for a business to suppress the political speech of its employees if it risks that business' bottom line?
The NFL should not suppress Kaepernick's right to protest, and they did not. I never said he should have been suppressed.
I said the NFL had the right to ban him from using their workplace to protest. Just like your workplace has the right to ask you, or your co-workers, to not use its resources to engage in political protest to their customers.
Kaepernick had six other days of the week to protest, protected by the constitution.
This is about the sixth time you have tried to divert with this whataboutism. I hope you are finally one with this tangent.
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Disagree it was fading, and Lebron not only had to say something but say something stupid that got all the whataboutists fired up and will likely generate more people to speak out/demonstrate against China which will make China double down.
I mean the burned Lebron jerseys in HK, that's a real bad look
It depends on how you define "fading."
It was looking like Chinese protests at NBA games were going to fade. This would have made it easier for the Chinese to start broadcasting their games again and go back to their endorsement deals.
LeBron fired up the Chinese protests ... 16,000 free HK shirts were not being made for the Lakers opener if Lebron had not stuck his foot in his mouth.
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Disagree it was fading, and Lebron not only had to say something but say something stupid that got all the whataboutists fired up and will likely generate more people to speak out/demonstrate against China which will make China double down.
I mean the burned Lebron jerseys in HK, that's a real bad look
Definitely a bad look, and it was Hong Kong that was pissed.
The Chinese government was irate about Morey, and was telling Silver to fire him. It was those aftershocks that led the Chinese government to effectively ban the NBA from its airwaves and take other anti-NBA measures.
So while we agree on much, mu03, we'll disagree here.
Of course, unlike Smuggles, I don't claim to be an expert on Chinese politics and business. I also didn't say to avoid buying AAPL at $90.
I said the NFL had the right to ban him from using their workplace to protest. Just like your workplace has the right to ask you, or your co-workers, to not use its resources to engage in political protest to their customers.
Kaepernick had six other days of the week to protest, protected by the constitution.
The NFL also tried to blackball Eric Reid. Thankfully, then-new Panthers owner David Tepper stepped up and signed Reid a year ago, and he has been one of the best players on a defense that has been outstanding. He's still taking a knee, too.
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Of course, unlike Smuggles, I don't claim to be an expert on Chinese politics and business. I also didn't say to avoid buying AAPL at $90.
Yes, when out of arguments, go to the trusty Ad Hominem.
It was $96, please get it right.
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The NFL should not suppress Kaepernick's right to protest, and they did not. I never said he should have been suppressed.
I said the NFL had the right to ban him from using their workplace to protest. Just like your workplace has the right to ask you, or your co-workers, to not use its resources to engage in political protest to their customers.
Kaepernick had six other days of the week to protest, protected by the constitution.
This is about the sixth time you have tried to divert with this whataboutism. I hope you are finally one with this tangent.
And yet you've complained about pro-HK signs being confiscated at an NBA arena. Isn't that the league's workplace?
And this isn't whataboutiam. It's pointing out, again, your willingness to embrace contradictory positions to suit whatever point you're trying to make (which in both cases seems to be the vilification of outspoken athletes).
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Don't be obtuse.
Fluffy is accurately pointing out that the circumstances of the NBA's relationship with China are far more complex than that of the Kanters and Turkey.
Ok, let me un-obtuse it, sully used a very bad analogy
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And yet you've complained about pro-HK signs being confiscated at an NBA arena. Isn't that the league's workplace?
And this isn't whataboutiam. It's pointing out, again, your willingness to embrace contradictory positions to suit whatever point you're trying to make (which in both cases seems to be the vilification of outspoken athletes).
The NBA has the right to confiscate the signs. And I'm sure they confiscate all kinds of signs with all kinds of inappropriate words on them.
The problem is confiscating the free HK signs says in the NBA is imposing Chinese Censorship on Americans in the United States.
I know you are capable of seeing how bad this look is for the NBA. But hey, if you prefer to remove rational thought and just scream racist, knock yourself out. I'm sure all the other posters here are enjoying your arguments.
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The NBA has the right to confiscate the signs. And I'm sure they confiscate all kinds of signs with all kinds of inappropriate words on them.
The problem is confiscating the free HK signs says in the NBA is imposing Chinese Censorship on Americans in the United States.
I know you are capable of seeing how bad this look is for the NBA. But hey, if you prefer to remove rational thought and just scream racist, knock yourself out. I'm sure all the other posters here are enjoying your arguments.
Walks like a duck ...
Now, more copypasta, please. Posters here love it.
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All he did was like a tweet.
The Future Of Adrian Wojnarowski's Tencent Show Is Up In The Air After He "Liked" Daryl Morey's Hong Kong Tweet
https://deadspin.com/adrian-wojnarowski-upset-former-espn-reporter-who-helpe-1838922338
Deadspin spoke to another source with extensive knowledge of Tencent and Woj in the House. The source, who requested anonymity to protect their job, said the show is not “officially” canceled but that the future production of the show is still being discussed, given the complexity of the situation. ESPN has not responded to yet another request for comment.
The bi-weekly show, which is broadcast by Chinese internet company Tencent in partnership with ESPN, launched in January. It is “the most watched basketball show in the world” according to Wojnarowski’s ESPN bio, but that popularity may be under threat due to the fact that Wojnarowski pissed off a lot of Chinese fans and at least one important business by “liking” Daryl Morey’s now infamous pro-Hong Kong tweet before it was deleted.
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The NBA has the right to confiscate the signs. And I'm sure they confiscate all kinds of signs with all kinds of inappropriate words on them.
The problem is confiscating the free HK signs says in the NBA is imposing Chinese Censorship on Americans in the United States.
I know you are capable of seeing how bad this look is for the NBA. But hey, if you prefer to remove rational thought and just scream racist, knock yourself out. I'm sure all the other posters here are enjoying your arguments.
Are you aware of the "sign controversy" that exists in the MLS currently?
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Disagree. The NBA is dealing with doing what is right, or generating more revenue. Their loss if they do what is right is the NBA loses money.
Kanter is dealing with a brutal dictator threatening his life and that of his family. He risks being kidnapped, or murdered every time he travels, because he spoke the truth to power. I'm sure Kanter would love to swap places and only risk income.
I meant complicated in terms of how the complexity of the situation. Not the severity.
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Ok, let me un-obtuse it, sully used a very bad analogy
??? You used the analogy. I commented on it.
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Are you aware of the "sign controversy" that exists in the MLS currently?
No, please detail
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No, please detail
https://www.theringer.com/2019/10/18/20920019/portland-timbers-major-league-soccer-ban-iron-front-symbol (https://www.theringer.com/2019/10/18/20920019/portland-timbers-major-league-soccer-ban-iron-front-symbol)
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Are you aware of the "sign controversy" that exists in the MLS currently?
It's interesting that you bring that up because it is a tricky topic. I can understand why leagues and/or teams would want to keep political speech out of their games if for no other reason than if you let someone have political speech everyone gets to have that same speech.....which is fine until conflicting and/or offensive speech comes in. However, by and large these games are being played in arenas that are funded/supported by public dollars so why should they be shielded from political speech, if I can hold a sign in a city park why shouldn't I be able to hold the same sign in an arena paid for by my tax dollars?
As to the NBA confiscating the Free HK signs, I believe they have the right to manage their employees like the players so they can't "protest in the workplace" but I don't see how they can manage fans who've been invited in.....I'm sure its in the terms and conditions of the ticket they purchased but it's interesting that they choose to enforce that.
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Yes, when out of arguments, go to the trusty Ad Hominem.
It was $96, please get it right.
I don't need "arguments" on this issue. I have an opinion, as do you, as does everybody else. You have absolutely no proof that LeBron will be more to "blame" than Morey for what has happened and what the fallout will be. I, on the other hand, have the indisputable fact that had Morey not tweeted what he did, none of what followed -- including LeBron's dopey comments -- would have happened. Morey's statement set everything else in motion. Everything.
You claim to know everything about everything, Smuggles, and you even admitted that you are "smug" about your own intellectual superiority -- hence the well-deserved nickname. So bringing up an example in which you couldn't have been more wrong works nicely to show you have little credibility.
I am far too lazy to look up the exact price point at which you said only a moron would buy Apple stock, but I'll take you at your word -- meaning those who followed your advice surrendered "only" a 144% gain rather than a 161% gain.
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How about instead of blaming Morey, or LeBron, we blame the true villain...Chicos, I mean China?
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How about instead of blaming Morey, or LeBron, we blame the true villain...Chicos, I mean China?
It may have oranginated with Morey, but now the problem is all Jina.
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One more Rant ... About bowing to Chinese money.
In 2013 Nate Silver sold his 538 website site to ESPN. ESPN transferred it to its sister property ABC News in 2018.
Both are owned by Disney, who operates a theme park in China, get a huge chunk of money from their movies in China, and has the rights to NBA basketball.
538 about equally covers sports and politics. But what you will not find on the 538 website is a single reference to the NBA/China controversy.
You will find an article called “the six biggest stories heading into the NBA regular season.” Again, China is not one.
You will find a story criticizing Fox News for not cover the Ukraine and Trump hard enough. But not one about the strange silence from ESPN, ABC News or 538 about the NBA/China. (The joke has been that ESPN has so avoided the NBA/China storyline that they have been forced to only talk about sports!)
So add in NateSilver/538/ESPN/ABC/Disney/Bob Iger that want to please their Chinese money.
Everyone truly cares about the less fortunate so long as it does not inconvenience them or their bank account.
Isn’t this the complaint the left has about republicans and corporations?
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One more Rant ... About bowing to Chinese money.
In 2013 Nate Silver sold his 538 website site to ESPN. ESPN transferred it to its sister property ABC News in 2018.
Both are owned by Disney, who operates a theme park in China, get a huge chunk of money from their movies in China, and has the rights to NBA basketball.
538 about equally covers sports and politics. But what you will not find on the 538 website is a single reference to the NBA/China controversy.
You will find an article called “the six biggest stories heading into the NBA regular season.” Again, China is not one.
You will find a story criticizing Fox News for not cover the Ukraine and Trump hard enough. But not one about the strange silence from ESPN, ABC News or 538 about the NBA/China. (The joke has been that ESPN has so avoided the NBA/China storyline that they have been forced to only talk about sports!)
So add in NateSilver/538/ESPN/ABC/Disney/Bob Iger that want to please their Chinese money.
Everyone truly cares about the less fortunate so long as it does not inconvenience them or their bank account.
Isn’t this the complaint the left has about republicans and corporations?
One Disney is able to use that money to employ thousands and keep them from being less fortunate by keeping away from China. Fox is simply pandering to a fan base, if they covered Ukraine I'd watch. Two, Disney is a corporation so yes it is a complaint that the left has about corporations. Three did anyone on the left claim that Disney/ESPN/538 was perfect? or is that just a logical fallacy for this rant?
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Are people on scoop defending the act of Americans being censored by other americans due to the whims of a foriegn country? Weird take.
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I am just thrilled to see Heisy so concerned with the oppressed. Good on ya, mate.
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Are people on scoop defending the act of Americans being censored by other americans due to the whims of a foriegn country? Weird take.
That is exactly what they are doing.
For instance, two posts above Galway is taking the unconscionable position that he is all for the Chinese Government deciding what American entertainment and news companies broadcast to Americans on American TV.
I am just thrilled to see Heisy so concerned with the oppressed. Good on ya, mate.
But, you are missing the point (like just about everyone else here).
This is about the Chinese Government dictating censorship rules to American companies INSIDE the United States.
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That is exactly what they are doing.
For instance, two posts above Galway is taking the unconscionable position that he is all for the Chinese Government deciding what American entertainment and news companies broadcast to Americans on American TV.
But, you are missing the point (like just about everyone else here).
This is about the Chinese Government dictating censorship rules to American companies INSIDE the United States.
That is not what I am taking, I am taking the position that you made a false equivalency between Fox News and Disney. I am not taking a pro censorship stance.
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538 did a podcast almost two weeks ago about the China/NBA controversy. It would have been easy enough for you to find had you bothered to insert "538 China nba" into a Google search.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-changing-how-we-think-about-the-nba/
LOL. Heisey, heisey, heisey...
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I completely get your point. China has been doing versions of it for years, trying to dictate coverage. This is common knowledge. Corporations value their money and market far too much to make a stink. The NBA is in a terrible position. Why the sudden interest on your part?
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538 did a podcast almost two weeks ago about the China/NBA controversy. It would have been easy enough for you to find had you bothered to insert "538 China nba" into a Google search.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-changing-how-we-think-about-the-nba/
Serious question ... do you work for a Chinese owned company? Or do you have a large number of Chinese customers? Because you are trying really hard ... too hard.
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Serious question ... do you work for a Chinese owned company? Or do you have a large number of Chinese customers? Because you are trying really hard ... too hard.
I'm actually a bot controlled by troll farm outside Guangzhou.
And yeah, I'm the one trying too hard.
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You did
Please quote my post, tell me where I said anything along the lines of "Disney should be censoring themselves in china" I was attacking your comparison with Fox news that's all.
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LOL. Heisey, heisey, heisey...
Did you listen to it? It was a few minutes buried in the middle of one random podcast two weeks ago, which essentially said noting.
Designed to say the words "China." "Morey" and "NBA" in the same sentence without upsetting their Chinese paymasters, or censorship apologists like Pakuni and Galoway.
Meanwhile, they have posted dozens of NBA related content since and have not addressed it again.
I completely get your point. China has been doing versions of it for years, trying to dictate coverage. This is common knowledge. Corporations value their money and market far too much to make a stink. The NBA is in a terrible position. Why the sudden interest on your part?
Because this is a thread about the NBA/China controversy.
Why do you think this is a non-story? Because this is what you are suggesting.
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It is a story. And it will continue and grow. But it is just a new chapter in an old story.
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Please quote my post, tell me where I said anything along the lines of "Disney should be censoring themselves in china" I was attacking your comparison with Fox news that's all.
You STILL don't get it. This is not about Disney censoring themselves in China. This is about them taking orders from China to censor themselves in the United States.
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It is a story. And it will continue and grow. But it is just a new chapter in an old story.
Heisy's first post on the topic explains his sudden interest in human rights.
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You STILL don't get it. This is not about Disney censoring themselves in China. This is about them taking orders from China to censor themselves in the United States.
Ok then tell me where I advocated for Disney censoring themselves in the states. You made a Fox news comparison I said at least with Disney's money they're creating job from keeping the Chinese market whereas Fox is just pandering to an audience. That's very different than saying "Disney should be censoring themselves to the demands of the Chinese government" one is showing a terrible comparison and finding a positive, the other is advocating for censorship
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I'm actually a bot controlled by troll farm outside Guangzhou.
And yeah, I'm the one trying too hard.
You are trying really hard to dismiss this entire story ... just like a Joe Tsai (owner of the Brooklyn Nets).
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Ok then tell me where I advocated for Disney censoring themselves in the states. You made a Fox news comparison I said at least with Disney's money they're creating job from keeping the Chinese market whereas Fox is just pandering to an audience. That's very different than saying "Disney should be censoring themselves to the demands of the Chinese government" one is showing a terrible comparison and finding a positive, the other is advocating for censorship
Your problem is the words "Fox News" seems to trigger you. After that, all rational thought disappears.
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Your problem is the words "Fox News" seems to trigger you. After that, all rational thought disappears.
Your problem is making horrible comparisons. You know I wasn't advocating for censorship and now you're changing the argument because you were caught lying to fit a narrative.
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Did you listen to it? It was a few minutes buried in the middle of one random podcast two weeks ago, which essentially said noting.
Ah now comes the goalpost shifting.
Never change Heisey!!!!
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You are trying really hard to dismiss this entire story ... just like a Joe Tsai (owner of the Brooklyn Nets).
No, I'm not dismissing the story. The story is legit.
I'm dismissing your hot (and false) takes on the story and efforts to spin it to fit your biases (namely, against "liberals" and outspoken athletes).
For example, you claim that 538 has done nothing on the controversy and that's proof that Disney is censoring on behalf of the Chinese government. Of course, not only has 538 covered it, but so have other Disney entities. Go to ESPN.com and you can find 19 stories on he topic posted since Morey's tweet (not to mention all the on-air coverage). That's more than one story per day, if you're counting.
Go to ABCnews.com and you'll find more than a dozen stories. It's been covered on-air multiple times by "Good Morning, America." It's been covered by ABC radio.
Where's all this censorship you keep talking about?
If your argument were as simple as "American corporations are willing to look past China's human rights records to bolster profits" not one person here would take issue with that. What people are taking issue with is the phony spin you're putting on it.
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Heisy. Knock off your political agenda. Lay into china as much as you want. I'm all for that.
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Heisy. Knock off your political agenda. Lay into china as much as you want. I'm all for that.
Yes...what he said. ^^^^^
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Ok, message received.
So, in an effort to move on ... I'm fascinated by how the NBA works way through this situation.
And in the middle might be Joe Tsai, he is executive vice chairman of Alibaba, the leading e-commerce company in China, which has ties to the government, as well as chairman of the South China Morning Post, Hong Kong’s most influential newspaper which has had to walk a fine line amid the protests.
Tsai paid a record $3.4 for the Brooklyn Nets so he could make them a popular team in China, precisely to capture the money from the Chinese market. This now seems to be gone and his investment is exploding in his face. And with it a good part of the league's financial structure.
This is what the home games in Brooklyn turned into (from last night's game)
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/WXVgjHpfrWwXHUkL275dIa6J3dU=/0x0:2671x1871/920x613/filters:focal(1218x568:1644x994):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65506970/usa_today_13534986.0.jpg)
and this,
Producer and activist Andrew Duncan bought 300 tickets to tonight's Nets vs Raptors game and is hosting hundreds of Chinese pro-Democracy activists to protest the NBA.
They're all wearing "Stand With Hong Kong" t-shirts
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHM1CyvWkAA9_e8?format=jpg&name=900x900)
So, let me ask ... how does the NBA work its way out of this? Or, it cannot and lost China's money. This means a 15% salary cap reduction, or $400 to $500 million less next year for total salaries?
This will fundamentally change the league.
For instance, the Lakers' active roster cap is $115 million this year. If it takes a 15% hit, it is $98 million next year. A $17 million reduction.
Lebron, AD and Danny Green will be $79m of next year's projected $97m cap. That leaves $18m to pay 12 other players to complete the team's roster.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/
Next year the Lakers might be LeBron, AD, Green and effectively a G-league roster. (unless they agree to reduce their contracts). Ditto Golden State, the Clippers and the Nets.
Do you agree this means big changes next year?
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So, let me ask ... how does the NBA work its way out of this? Or, it cannot and lost China's money. This means a 15% salary cap reduction, or $400 to $500 million less next year for total salaries?
This will fundamentally change the league.
For instance, the Lakers' active roster cap is $115 million this year. If it takes a 15% hit, it is $98 million next year. A $17 million reduction.
Lebron, AD and Danny Green will be $79m of next year's projected $97m cap. That leaves $18m to pay 12 other players to complete the team's roster.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/
Next year the Lakers might be LeBron, AD, Green and effectively a G-league roster. (unless they agree to reduce their contracts). Ditto Golden State, the Clippers and the Nets.
Do you agree this means big changes next year?
Or owners don't profit as much.
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Or owners don't profit as much.
They don't profit much at all now. They pretty much run these teams at breakeven now.
So while Ballmer (Clippers) and Tasi (Nets) would be willing to run at a big loss. Reinsdorf (Bulls), Simon (Pacers), Gores (Pistons) Taylor (Timberwolves) will fight taking losses to the point of a lockout. They are not in the position to eat another $20m/year.
Remember the NBA agrees to a league-wide salary cap restricting what every team can spend on salaries. This is to provide a competitive balance and not have teams compete on the size of their owner's checkbooks.
If they ditch the salary cap, 10+ teams will folder. They cannot compete with Tsai and Ballmer.
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Which come full circle to my original post in this thread. Principle versus principal. The eternal conundrum.
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God Bless America!
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Do you agree this means big changes next year?
Where are you getting the 15 percent cut in salary cap figure?
NBA revenues topped $8 billion in 2017-18 (most recent year I could find). From what I can find, the league gets about $500 million of that from China. So, assuming no other growth in NBA revenues over the past two years (unlikely, no?), that's what, maybe a 5 percent revenue decline, factoring in last year's growth? And, again, some of that is almost certainly to be offset by increases from other revenue streams.
So, yeah, the NBA's bottom line obviously will suffer if revenue from China suddenly dips to zero. But it's not likely to be nearly as calamitous as you're suggesting. Five percent is nothing to sneeze at, but it's not 15 percent either.
Beyond all that, this almost certainly will pass over time. NBA basketball is exceptionally popular in China and the powers that be aren't going to want to keep people from their bread and circuses forever.
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They don't profit much at all now. They pretty much run these teams at breakeven now.
The average NBA team ended 2018 with $61 million operating income, per Forbes annual team valuations.
Six teams had an operating income of more than $100 million. Another sat at $99 million.
Only one team, the Cavs, lost money. The next worst made $10 million.
https://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/list/#header:operatingIncome_sortreverse:true
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And, honestly, there probably IS a political element to it. This can be seen as China posturing in this area due to ongoing trade disagreements. But again, IMO, a new chapter of an old story.
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Salary cap hit for next year, down 15%
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-nba-teams-planning-for-scenario-in-which-salary-cap-would-drop-due-to-situation-with-china-003037770.html
Silver confirms
www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/10/18/nba-china-rift-causing-league-substantial-losses-commissioner-says.html
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Salary cap hit for next year, down 15%
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-nba-teams-planning-for-scenario-in-which-salary-cap-would-drop-due-to-situation-with-china-003037770.html
Silver confirms
www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/10/18/nba-china-rift-causing-league-substantial-losses-commissioner-says.html
Thanks, but Silver didn't confirm.
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Thanks, but Silver didn't confirm.
Ok, I should have been more specific.
Silver confirmed losing China is a big financial hit to the league. I did not mean the cap reduction, as that is speculation and not a fact (yet)
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Where are you getting the 15 percent cut in salary cap figure?
Out of his anal cavity ... which he finally admitted when you called him on his BS.
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Out of his anal cavity ... which he finally admitted when you called him on his BS.
I believe this is where the 15% came from. I posted this a little while ago.
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15% is a worst case scenario and I think it's also being misconstrued. I think the 15% number is off the projected cap for next year, not 15% off the cap number this year.
Simple example this year it's about $110M next year was projected around $120M. The 15% of next year means the new projection would be $102M for next year NOT $97M if you took it off this years
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15% is a worst case scenario and I think it's also being misconstrued. I think the 15% number is off the projected cap for next year, not 15% off the cap number this year.
Simple example this year it's about $110M next year was projected around $120M. The 15% of next year means the new projection would be $102M for next year NOT $97M if you took it off this years
A lot of is dependent on:
* Do the Chinese ever come back (both broadcast rights and/or endorsements)? The Chinese are about 15% of total league's revenues, hence team scenarios of a 15% drop in the cap.
* What about domestic revenue sources? Do games become a "free HK" or "free Tibet" protest (see the pictures of Friday's Nets game several posts below). Does that make it less desirable to attend (drop in the gate)? Or does this fizzle out in a few weeks?
* Dometic TV ratings. Are they affected at all by any of this?
* Lastly, what about personal appearances and endorsements? Supposedly LeBron was set to make almost $1m in appearances fees in China a few weeks ago. That was all canceled. If every paid appearance comes with Free HK protesters (not only LeBron, but all NBA players), do they lose that source of income? Are NBA players less desireable (now) as pitchmen on commercials?
The answers to these and more will determine the hit, if any, to the Salary cap.
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* Do the Chinese ever come back (both broadcast rights and/or endorsements)? The Chinese are about 15% of total league's revenues, hence team scenarios of a 15% drop in the cap.
This doesn't seem accurate.
Estimates put league revenues from China at $400 to $500 million. Total NBA revenue in the 2017-18 season was $8 billion. $500 million of $8 billion is quite a bit less than 15 percent.
A lot of what you say about the China situation hurting NBA revenues is accurate. I don't know why you think you need to constantly exaggerate the situation to make your point.
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This doesn't seem accurate.
Estimates put league revenues from China at $400 to $500 million. Total NBA revenue in the 2017-18 season was $8 billion. $500 million of $8 billion is quite a bit less than 15 percent.
A lot of what you say about the China situation hurting NBA revenues is accurate. I don't know why you think you need to constantly exaggerate the situation to make your point.
The 15% is from the yahoo link above, you know this. stop making this a personal attack.
I will try to stop the personal and political... will you.
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The 15% is from the yahoo link above, you know this. stop making this a personal attack.
I will try to stop the personal and political... will you.
I'm sorry if you feel this is personal. I'll try to make it seem less so.
The Yahoo article you linked doesn't say the league gets 15 percent of its revenue from China. It says some teams are considering a scenario in which the cap drops 10 to 15 percent.
Also, we know that the league doesn't get 15 percent of its revenue from China because the amount it gets from China - estimated at $400 to $500 million - is far less than 15 percent of league revenues ($8 billion).
I'll mention it no more.
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This doesn't seem accurate.
Estimates put league revenues from China at $400 to $500 million. Total NBA revenue in the 2017-18 season was $8 billion. $500 million of $8 billion is quite a bit less than 15 percent.
A lot of what you say about the China situation hurting NBA revenues is accurate. I don't know why you think you need to constantly exaggerate the situation to make your point.
Don’t forget the other dollars the players make on the side from China. Insanely lucrative for them to go there, make appearances, run a camp or two. Insane money....not officially part of NBA revenues.
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Don’t forget the other dollars the players make on the side from China. Insanely lucrative for them to go there, make appearances, run a camp or two. Insane money....not officially part of NBA revenues.
Correct ... the long ESPN article about this last week mentioned that Lebron stood to make about $1m in appearances and other such events in China two weeks ago. That was all canceled. It also said Kyrie Irving also stood to have a nice payday too, and that was cancelled as well.
It mentioned in relation to the players meeting in China with Silver. The articled suggested the reason players like LeBron and Kryie were so mad was they had an immediate loss of income from those canceled appearances.
(The article also notes that when LeBron demanded that Morey get punished by the league, implying he was upset by the loss of income, Silver’s response was something along the lines of “we don’t punish the players when they criticize Trump.”)
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Correct ... the long ESPN article about this last week mentioned that Lebron stood to make about $1m in appearances and other such events in China two weeks ago. That was all canceled. It also said Kyrie Irving also stood to have a nice payday too, and that was cancelled as well.
It mentioned in relation to the players meeting in China with Silver. The articled suggested the reason players like LeBron and Kryie were so mad was they had an immediate loss of income from those canceled appearances.
(The article also notes that when LeBron demanded that Morey get punished by the league, implying he was upset by the loss of income, Silver’s response was something along the lines of “we don’t punish the players when they criticize Trump.”)
Did LeBron demand that Morey be punished?
Silver said that China wanted Morey fired, but I don't remember hearing that LeBron wanted any action taken.
(Also, who knows if Silver is telling the truth re China requesting Morey's firing)
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(Also, who knows if Silver is telling the truth re China requesting Morey's firing)
That would be an oddly bizarre and counter productive thing to make up.....bet hey anything's possible I guess
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Did LeBron demand that Morey be punished?
Silver said that China wanted Morey fired, but I don't remember hearing that LeBron wanted any action taken.
(Also, who knows if Silver is telling the truth re China requesting Morey's firing)
Reporting on the October 9th meeting in China ...
https://es.pn/2IVFa1Y
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey — and the commissioner’s handling of the Rockets’ GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn’t be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey’s case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that’s not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey’s tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.
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Reporting on the October 9th meeting in China ...
https://es.pn/2IVFa1Y
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey — and the commissioner’s handling of the Rockets’ GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn’t be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey’s case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that’s not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey’s tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.
If true, good on Silver, bad on Lebron.
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And, honestly, there probably IS a political element to it. This can be seen as China posturing in this area due to ongoing trade disagreements. But again, IMO, a new chapter of an old story.
Big political element to it. The Chinese are seething that Trump dictates the agenda by imposing tariffs and threatening more. The Chinese really have nothing they can threaten back with (other than not by farm products, but these are not on the same level).
So when the Chinese became aware of Morey's tweet, I think (as do many others) that the Chinese jumped on it, not because of what it said, but as an excuse to "club" an American product as a form or retaliation.
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china is in one of it's more vulnerable positions economically today than in a long time. there are many of you out there who know more first hand, but from what i've read and heard, vietnam, south korea, indonesia, thailand, etc are coming on strong, providing alternatives to a lot of stuff sold in the "walmarts" of the world. china still has some clout of course, but maybe best be careful as the aforementioned are ready to fill the vacuum
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Big political element to it. The Chinese are seething that Trump dictates the agenda by imposing tariffs and threatening more. The Chinese really have nothing they can threaten back with (other than not by farm products, but these are not on the same level).
So when the Chinese became aware of Morey's tweet, I think (as do many others) that the Chinese jumped on it, not because of what it said, but as an excuse to "club" an American product as a form or retaliation.
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with a No on that one.
There reaction was expected and simple. They do not allow anyone to interfere with Hong Kong. They have a long history of suppressing any external negative comments regarding how they treat their people.
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NBA commissioner Adam Silver will face ‘retribution’ for defaming China, state media says
Published: 7:00pm, 19 Oct, 2019
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033707/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-will-face-retribution-defaming
In a commentary on Saturday, state broadcaster CCTV said Silver had “crossed the bottom line” by continuing to defend Daryl Morey, general manager of the Houston Rockets, who posted an image on Twitter on October 4 saying “Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong”.
Making his first comments about the dispute since returning from a contentious visit to China for two preseason games, Silver said on Thursday that the Chinese government had asked the NBA to fire Morey.
“We said there’s no chance that’s happening,” he said in an interview at the Time 100 Health Summit in New York. “There’s no chance we’ll even discipline him.”
But Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said on Friday that Beijing had never made such a demand.
NBA Commissioner Adam Silver “sought to paint China as unforgiving”, according to state broadcaster CCTV. Photo: EPA-EFENBA Commissioner Adam Silver “sought to paint China as unforgiving”, according to state broadcaster CCTV. Photo: EPA-EFE
Chinese state media has warned that NBA commissioner Adam Silver will face “retribution” for defaming China in the latest twist to a dispute that began with a basketball team executive tweeting his support for the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.
In a commentary on Saturday, state broadcaster CCTV said Silver had “crossed the bottom line” by continuing to defend Daryl Morey, general manager of the Houston Rockets, who posted an image on Twitter on October 4 saying “Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong”.
Making his first comments about the dispute since returning from a contentious visit to China for two preseason games, Silver said on Thursday that the Chinese government had asked the NBA to fire Morey.
“We said there’s no chance that’s happening,” he said in an interview at the Time 100 Health Summit in New York. “There’s no chance we’ll even discipline him.”
But Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said on Friday that Beijing had never made such a demand.
CCTV said Silver had crossed a line.
“Silver has spared no effort to portray himself as a fighter for free speech and used freedom of speech as an excuse to cover for Morey, who voiced his support for the violent actors in Hong Kong,” it said. “This has crossed the bottom line of the Chinese people.”
Silver’s handling of the controversy had proved his “double standards”, the broadcaster said, adding that he had “defamed” China on the international stage.
“To please some American politicians, Silver has fabricated lies out of nothing and has sought to paint China as unforgiving,” it said.
The way in which the NBA boss had defended Morey showed he had “problems in his character”, the report said, adding that he “will receive retribution sooner or later”.
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Yeah, I'm going to have to go with a No on that one.
There reaction was expected and simple. They do not allow anyone to interfere with Hong Kong. They have a long history of suppressing any external negative comments regarding how they treat their people.
Except that the WSJ warned in June something like this might happen to American properties.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-can-retaliate-beyond-tariffs-1529428031
China can’t match the scale of the White House’s latest tariff threats. But it could find other ways to upset U.S. business interests, including ones that hit as quickly as tariffs. ... It is easy to imagine attacks on U.S. brands by China’s tightly controlled media. As Mark Williams, chief Asia economist at Capital Economics, points out, China has used this tactic before on Japan and Korea. In 2012, amid a long-running feud between Japan and China over a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea, Japan’s auto exports to China fell 80% over three months. Korean car makers were similarly hit when the country decided to install an antimissile defense system.
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I will try to stop the ... political
Apparently not.
The Chinese are seething that Trump dictates the agenda by imposing tariffs and threatening more. The Chinese really have nothing they can threaten back with (other than not by farm products, but these are not on the same level).
One country's leader faces re-election in just over a year and tremendous pressure to produce a "win"; the other country's leader is a dictator who can just wait out his opponent and play the long game.
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Except that the WSJ warned in June something like this might happen to American properties.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-can-retaliate-beyond-tariffs-1529428031
China can’t match the scale of the White House’s latest tariff threats. But it could find other ways to upset U.S. business interests, including ones that hit as quickly as tariffs. ... It is easy to imagine attacks on U.S. brands by China’s tightly controlled media. As Mark Williams, chief Asia economist at Capital Economics, points out, China has used this tactic before on Japan and Korea. In 2012, amid a long-running feud between Japan and China over a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea, Japan’s auto exports to China fell 80% over three months. Korean car makers were similarly hit when the country decided to install an antimissile defense system.
I'm not going to get in a political debate with you on a non-political discussion board.
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Wait so Morey is some kind of Manchurian Candidate who was planted to tweet support for HK as a false flag so China could "overreact" and add punish the NBA as a means of opening up a new front in the economic war with the US?
(https://giphy.com/gifs/moments-jack-nicholson-LeRrtBQg7Eicw)
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In Heisey's defense, it is nearly impossible to discuss this issue without touching on the political. So, I am done discussing it here.