Well that was a waste

[MU82]

The benefits student athletes get vs the rest of the student body massively dwarf anything they cannot do and it most cases the student athletes can, in fact, do what the everyday student can....but with restrictions.

At every university, the scholarship drama student, school newspaper editor, ballet dancer and trombonist also get benefits the rest of the student body don't. They also aren't "employees." All of those people can profit off their own likenesses.

College athletes work harder than most "employees" anywhere. And major universities make untold riches on their backs. But yes, so far, they have been judged not to be "employees" by the courts. I'm glad you so respect everything that every court rules. I look forward to your full-throated defense of abortion rights; it's political, but that never stops you.

Meanwhile, the California deal is now a law, which of course trumps the courts (unless there is a lawsuit and courts rule otherwise). Soon many more -- probably dozens more -- states will adopt this law, too, and the NCAA will either capitulate or go out of business. And then all of this will have just been good, clean, Scoopian fun. Deal with it!

[Dr. Blackheart]

Cheeks Wepner

[mu03eng]

Student athletes are permitted to have youtube channels, work, etc.  Why you don't mention that time and again is amazing.

You do realize that Student athletes aren't allowed to monetize their Youtube channels, correct? That would be profiting off their likeness. Students can monetize their Youtube channels. Are you arguing that because student-athletes get benefit A (room, board, etc) that students do not that the student athletes should not have access to benefit B(say monetizing a Youtube stream)? Student Athletes deliver tremendous value to a university so why should they have less access in some regards then regular students?

[Uncle Rico]

Oh noes, employees getting paid to be employees.  Student athletes not employees don't get paid.

Hey, the high school coach gets paid, the high school athlete doesn't....therefore high school athletes are no longer amateurs?

Good Lord

When high school sports start generating revenue like college athletics, then yes, we should discuss options. 

Athletic departments crying poverty and that they'll be crippled when someone else is paying for the likeness of a "student" athlete is laughable, that's why those salaries matter.  Don't stand in front of me and tell me about amateurism and education.  Major college athletics have nothing to do with either.

[muguru]

When high school sports start generating revenue like college athletics, then yes, we should discuss options. 

Athletic departments crying poverty and that they'll be crippled when someone else is paying for the likeness of a "student" athlete is laughable, that's why those salaries matter.  Don't stand in front of me and tell me about amateurism and education.  Major college athletics have nothing to do with either.

I'm curious to know why(if you and others), think college athletes have it so bad...why do they choose to go to college?? There must be a reason, right?? No one is making them, are they?? If they want to make money right away, they can go get a job, or go overseas and play, or go to the G league, can't they??

So when they do go to college to play a sport, who is providing them the platform to be able to become a "name" and have the ability to make $$ off their likeness?? Is it the universities...or??

For a vast majority of people that favor this, the ONLY reason they do is because for whatever reason they DESPISE how much $$ presidents and coaches etc make. If they say it's for any other reason, they are a flat out liar. These are the same people that think lawyers, professional athletes, doctors etc make too much $$ them selves. In fact, in their view, everyone makes too much(if they make more than they do), it's just envy, that's all it is. Pure and simple.

It has always amazed me at how people get so mad at what other people make..The irony is, if they were making that, then guess what?? Then the salary would be just fine. Funny how that works, isn't it??

I don't get why it's such a big deal what someone else makes for the job they do?? How does that affect you or your life in any way shape or form?? I can promise you someone out there thinks you or me or the next person makes too much for what we do..Get the same skills as what these people have and we can all make whet they make, right??

[Uncle Rico]

I'm curious to know why(if you and others), think college athletes have it so bad...why do they choose to go to college?? There must be a reason, right?? No one is making them, are they?? If they want to make money right away, they can go get a job, or go overseas and play, or go to the G league, can't they??

So when they do go to college to play a sport, who is providing them the platform to be able to become a "name" and have the ability to make $$ off their likeness?? Is it the universities...or??

For a vast majority of people that favor this, the ONLY reason they do is because for whatever reason they DESPISE how much $$ presidents and coaches etc make. If they say it's for any other reason, they are a flat out liar. These are the same people that think lawyers, professional athletes, doctors etc make too much $$ them selves. In fact, in their view, everyone makes too much(if they make more than they do), it's just envy, that's all it is. Pure and simple.

It has always amazed me at how people get so mad at what other people make..The irony is, if they were making that, then guess what?? Then the salary would be just fine. Funny how that works, isn't it??

I don't get why it's such a big deal what someone else makes for the job they do?? How does that affect you or your life in any way shape or form?? I can promise you someone out there thinks you or me or the next person makes too much for what we do..Get the same skills as what these people have and we can all make whet they make, right??

They can make as much as they want and can get.  Don't cry poverty when you tell me why athletes can't earn off their likeness.

[Uncle Rico]

https://twitter.com/theonion/status/1179791994517893122?s=21

[Pakuni]

I don't get why it's such a big deal what someone else makes for the job they do?? How does that affect you or your life in any way shape or form?? I can promise you someone out there thinks you or me or the next person makes too much for what we do..Get the same skills as what these people have and we can all make whet they make, right??

Interesting take from someone who's infuriated by the prospect of college athletes earning a little money.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I happen to think that 99% of student athletes get a great deal and are fairly or over compensated. I also don't give a rat's arse about how much money ADs and coaches as a group make (some individual salaries I think are bonkers). Most of them do damn good work and earn those big paychecks.

I also happen to think that letting athletes profit off their likeness is the right thing to do. Just because something is already great doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be improved.

[muguru]

They can make as much as they want and can get.  Don't cry poverty when you tell me why athletes can't earn off their likeness.

I asked you a question, and you dodged it...wouldn't expect any less from you...why should college athletes be able to make money of any kind(other than a job etc), while in college?? Why do YOU want them to so badly?? I can guarantee you your answer stems around the fact that Presidents etc are getting rich off of them. There is NO other reason you want it. It's envy, plain and simple. You don't like how much they make, so you're mad about that and want to see STUDENT athletes share in that. Yet, when these same student athletes become professional athletes, you will be B*itching about how much they make as a pro. To say otherwise makes you a flat out bold faced liar.


Should student athletes be able to get a cut of gambling money that comes in when someone bets on a game they are playing in?? Aren't they betting on that game, because of the athletes "likeness"?? Afterall, if they aren't on the field or the court, representing the University, they would have nothing to bet on, right??

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

https://twitter.com/theonion/status/1179791994517893122?s=21

It's scary how many responses to this don't seem to know what the onion is

[mu03eng]

I'm curious to know why(if you and others), think college athletes have it so bad...why do they choose to go to college?? There must be a reason, right?? No one is making them, are they?? If they want to make money right away, they can go get a job, or go overseas and play, or go to the G league, can't they??

So when they do go to college to play a sport, who is providing them the platform to be able to become a "name" and have the ability to make $$ off their likeness?? Is it the universities...or??

For a vast majority of people that favor this, the ONLY reason they do is because for whatever reason they DESPISE how much $$ presidents and coaches etc make. If they say it's for any other reason, they are a flat out liar. These are the same people that think lawyers, professional athletes, doctors etc make too much $$ them selves. In fact, in their view, everyone makes too much(if they make more than they do), it's just envy, that's all it is. Pure and simple.

It has always amazed me at how people get so mad at what other people make..The irony is, if they were making that, then guess what?? Then the salary would be just fine. Funny how that works, isn't it??

I don't get why it's such a big deal what someone else makes for the job they do?? How does that affect you or your life in any way shape or form?? I can promise you someone out there thinks you or me or the next person makes too much for what we do..Get the same skills as what these people have and we can all make whet they make, right??

So you are free market for the folks "at the top" like coaches and administrators to get what they can get (as am I) but you despise the "labors" like the student-athletes getting what they can get?

No one is arguing that student-athletes don't get value out of their relationship with universities and no one is arguing that universities need to give more to the student-athletes than they already are. What we are saying is that universities need to stop artificially limiting the student-athlete's ability to generate more value for themselves.

[muguru]

So you are free market for the folks "at the top" like coaches and administrators to get what they can get (as am I) but you despise the "labors" like the student-athletes getting what they can get?

No one is arguing that student-athletes don't get value out of their relationship with universities and no one is arguing that universities need to give more to the student-athletes than they already are. What we are saying is that universities need to stop artificially limiting the student-athlete's ability to generate more value for themselves.

Student athletes aren't "labor" though. They aren't employees. Why do student athletes go to college anyway?? Is it to have a platform to showcase their abilities and talents to prospective employers in the future?? For 4 years of their lives(if they stay that long) they don't get "compensated" for doing something they are choosing to do on their own free will. Why can't they just go get a job while they are an athlete??

If it's so bad, why don't they go right from high school to overseas, or the G league, or just give up playing altogether and go out into the workforce?? They HAVE options, yet they are choosing to go to college on their own free will, why do you think that is??

[Uncle Rico]

I asked you a question, and you dodged it...wouldn't expect any less from you...why should college athletes be able to make money of any kind(other than a job etc), while in college?? Why do YOU want them to so badly?? I can guarantee you your answer stems around the fact that Presidents etc are getting rich off of them. There is NO other reason you want it. It's envy, plain and simple. You don't like how much they make, so you're mad about that and want to see STUDENT athletes share in that. Yet, when these same student athletes become professional athletes, you will be B*itching about how much they make as a pro. To say otherwise makes you a flat out bold faced liar.


Should student athletes be able to get a cut of gambling money that comes in when someone bets on a game they are playing in?? Aren't they betting on that game, because of the athletes "likeness"?? Afterall, if they aren't on the field or the court, representing the University, they would have nothing to bet on, right??

Why would I be jealous what coaches or administrators get paid?  Why would I care what professional athletes get paid?  They should get every dime they can get. 

College athletes should get paid because they have earned it and are the revenue generators and amateurism is a sham perpetuated for nearly a century.  Without the college athlete, there are no college athletics.  Also, college athletics are pseudo-minor leagues for football and basketball. 

[muguru]

Why would I be jealous what coaches or administrators get paid?  Why would I care what professional athletes get paid?  They should get every dime they can get. 

College athletes should get paid because they have earned it and are the revenue generators and amateurism is a sham perpetuated for nearly a century.  Without the college athlete, there are no college athletics.  Also, college athletics are pseudo-minor leagues for football and basketball.

Can't you say the opposite as well?? Without college's that sponsor/support athletics, there would be no platform for these athletes to showcase themselves.

Look...for some reason I think you and many others think compensating college athletes for their likeness, will stop there. It won't. That's a guarantee. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually it will be where college's are paying athletes directly, and making them employees. It will basically be pro sports x2.

[Pakuni]

Can't you say the opposite as well?? Without college's that sponsor/support athletics, there would be no platform for these athletes to showcase themselves.

Colleges sponsor/support athletics because it serves their self interests.

[Uncle Rico]

Can't you say the opposite as well?? Without college's that sponsor/support athletics, there would be no platform for these athletes to showcase themselves.

Look...for some reason I think you and many others think compensating college athletes for their likeness, will stop there. It won't. That's a guarantee. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually it will be where college's are paying athletes directly, and making them employees. It will basically be pro sports x2.

So what

[mu03eng]

Student athletes aren't "labor" though. They aren't employees. Why do student athletes go to college anyway?? Is it to have a platform to showcase their abilities and talents to prospective employers in the future?? For 4 years of their lives(if they stay that long) they don't get "compensated" for doing something they are choosing to do on their own free will. Why can't they just go get a job while they are an athlete??

If it's so bad, why don't they go right from high school to overseas, or the G league, or just give up playing altogether and go out into the workforce?? They HAVE options, yet they are choosing to go to college on their own free will, why do you think that is??

So because a court ruled that something that looks, sounds, and walks like a duck is in fact a chicken it means we get devalue the chicken's contribution to value generation? Additionally, and I'm going to say this internet loud, NO ONE IS SAYING THE UNIVERSITIES NEED TO PROVIDE MORE COMPENSATION TO THE STUDENT ATHLETE, IN FACT WE ARE SAYING THE OPPOSITE. WE ARE JUST ASKING FOR UNIVERSITIES TO GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE STUDENT ATHLETES ABILITY TO GENERATE REVENUE FOR THEMSELVES

The athletes and the schools have a classic exchange of goods, the university gains visibility and revenue....the student gets education and living expenses and exposure which is great but why does the university get to deny revenue generating opportunities for the athletes that any other person and/or student gets to partake in?

[mu03eng]

Can't you say the opposite as well?? Without college's that sponsor/support athletics, there would be no platform for these athletes to showcase themselves.

Look...for some reason I think you and many others think compensating college athletes for their likeness, will stop there. It won't. That's a guarantee. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually it will be where college's are paying athletes directly, and making them employees. It will basically be pro sports x2.

A) You can't know that unless you got some sort of fortune teller ball in your pocket B) there is zero evidence that colleges would ever have to directly compensate the athletes unless the colleges choose to classify them as an employee.....there is no other way to force that unless the colleges choose to do it. And if they choose to do it, so what?

[muguru]

So because a court ruled that something that looks, sounds, and walks like a duck is in fact a chicken it means we get devalue the chicken's contribution to value generation? Additionally, and I'm going to say this internet loud, NO ONE IS SAYING THE UNIVERSITIES NEED TO PROVIDE MORE COMPENSATION TO THE STUDENT ATHLETE, IN FACT WE ARE SAYING THE OPPOSITE. WE ARE JUST ASKING FOR UNIVERSITIES TO GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE STUDENT ATHLETES ABILITY TO GENERATE REVENUE FOR THEMSELVES

The athletes and the schools have a classic exchange of goods, the university gains visibility and revenue....the student gets education and living expenses and exposure which is great but why does the university get to deny revenue generating opportunities for the athletes that any other person and/or student gets to partake in?

They aren't though...student athletes can have jobs, just like regular students can, right?? No one is stopping them as far as I know.

[Uncle Rico]

College athletics were doomed once before.  The language sounds familiar

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2019-10-02/college-athletics-reform-ncaa-doomsday-title-ix

[MU82]

I'm curious to know why(if you and others), think college athletes have it so bad...why do they choose to go to college?? There must be a reason, right?? No one is making them, are they?? If they want to make money right away, they can go get a job, or go overseas and play, or go to the G league, can't they??

So when they do go to college to play a sport, who is providing them the platform to be able to become a "name" and have the ability to make $$ off their likeness?? Is it the universities...or??

For a vast majority of people that favor this, the ONLY reason they do is because for whatever reason they DESPISE how much $$ presidents and coaches etc make. If they say it's for any other reason, they are a flat out liar. These are the same people that think lawyers, professional athletes, doctors etc make too much $$ them selves. In fact, in their view, everyone makes too much(if they make more than they do), it's just envy, that's all it is. Pure and simple.

It has always amazed me at how people get so mad at what other people make..The irony is, if they were making that, then guess what?? Then the salary would be just fine. Funny how that works, isn't it??

I don't get why it's such a big deal what someone else makes for the job they do?? How does that affect you or your life in any way shape or form?? I can promise you someone out there thinks you or me or the next person makes too much for what we do..Get the same skills as what these people have and we can all make whet they make, right??

I can't speak for others, I can only say that I never once said "college athletes have it so bad."

I said that they, like every other college student, should not be prohibited from owning and profiting off their own likenesses.

For somebody wanting to know why others want something that doesn't affect them personally, you seem to take it very personally that athletes want to get compensated for their own likeness.

They aren't though...student athletes can have jobs, just like regular students can, right?? No one is stopping them as far as I know.

What is stopping them is the amount of hours in a day.

First, they are supposed to be students. That means they are supposed to go to class and do homework. Second, they make a tremendous time commitment to their teams. Between practice, film sessions, games, travel to games, medical treatments, meetings, etc, they probably spend 50 hours a week (and that's probably low in season) giving their time so grown men like you and me can enjoy watching them play basketball (or, in your case, being "competitive.") And even though some of them seem super-human, they do have to sleep and eat.

Now, take the typical student, the one who does few or no extracurricular activities. Other than class (for those who bother going), homework (for those who bother doing it), sleeping and eating, they have nothing but time to get a job, if they want to.

So sure, you are correct that athletes can get jobs. But you are intelligent enough to know darn well that it isn't realistic for them to have jobs. You just feel like arguing for the sake of arguing, so you are pretending not to know it.

[Cheeks]

Delany's comments...clearly some won't agree.  Some will somehow say his salary has any bearing in this which is nonsense.

"My view is that there may be some players who are ready for the professional ranks but that's not the college ranks," Delany said (approximately seven minutes into the video above). "And I would like to see players who are ready for the professional ranks to be able to access the professional game either through the D-League — I'd like to see the owners and the unions open up opportunities for young people as you have in baseball. Same thing about the NFL. We're not the minor leagues, we're involved in an enterprise that touches 100,000 players and maybe there's one percent or two percent that may have commercial value but I would prefer that they have the choice to move that to the professional ranks because I really don't see much difference myself between name, image and likeness payments by a corporate sponsor or pay for play. So it's a belief system I have. I know people differ on it. I think the law of unintended consequences and the law of slippery slope apply here."

"the opportunities that we have for the great many shouldn't be sacrificed at the altar of the one percent."



In my view, the easiest fix to all of this is let high school basketball players go to the NBA of G League, but of course Lebron and company aren't pushing that one as hard. Remove that obstacle which isn't even a NCAA obstacle, but one the lawmakers are forcing the NCAA to fix when it isn't even their policy.

[WhiteTrash]

The athletes and the schools have a classic exchange of goods, the university gains visibility and revenue....the student gets education and living expenses and exposure which is great but why does the university get to deny revenue generating opportunities for the athletes that any other person and/or student gets to partake in?

I 100% agree with this ........ in a perfect world. Remove boosters and shoe companies and the SEC & Big XII then what you are championing makes perfect sense, but then again in that perfect world we would not need the NCAA and its rule book.

Also, the "other students can do it" argument is fatally flawed. Other students do not compete in a sporting event that is intended to be on a level playing field. Long ago crazy boosters (usually in the south) started compensating students to play for their schools which created an uneven playing field and the universities employed the NCAA, that they had created, to correct the situation. This is why we have the rules we have today.

I submit to you that if college engineering teams competed in building robots that they would be given the same supplies, tools and rule to compete with. Companies like Google would not be allowed to tip the scales in favor of Stanford by paying its team members or giving other benefits. If Google did, other engineering schools would rightfully call foul since it would not be a true competition. And if engineering teams relied on revenues from the competitions, the robot building events and teams would go away because no one is going to watch Stanford win every time.

[mu03eng]

They aren't though...student athletes can have jobs, just like regular students can, right?? No one is stopping them as far as I know.

Only the time commitment that being a student athlete requires which prevents them from working at a Pizza Hut on top of everything else. Again(as an example) having a Youtube channel that people pay to watch is a job in the new economy and the NCAA actively prevents them from having that job. So yes, they are being stopped from taking jobs that regular students can have.