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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 206361 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #700 on: September 30, 2019, 09:23:09 AM »
The grad transfer rule has been a resounding success and repealing it would just be the lords stepping on the throats of the serfs. The serfs with actual degrees.

Otherwise, so much wrong in here, as usual. TAMU pounded down most of your garbage nicely. I won't pile on.

Tell that to the programs decimated and the coaches fired.  Wait, you don’t seem to care about them.  Same old pattern for you....
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #701 on: September 30, 2019, 09:24:31 AM »
Tell that to the programs decimated and the coaches fired.  Wait, you don’t seem to care about them.  Same old pattern for you....

Which program was "decimated" by the grad transfer rule?
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #702 on: September 30, 2019, 09:29:27 AM »
Which program was "decimated" by the grad transfer rule?

Apparently you didn’t read the article...or you didn’t read it well.

Here is another one

https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/mid-major-fallout-grad-transfers-can-hurt-teams-they-leave-012319

I’ve seen it decimate programs, and I think it makes it very, very difficult for coaches that are trying to build programs,” said Kent State head coach Rob Senderoff, who was surprised when 7-foot center Adonis De La Rosa transferred to Illinois as a graduate student after last season. The Golden Flashes (14-4) are still in contention in the Mid-American Conference.

But remember, only good comes of this situation....it’s a resounding success someone once said minutes ago.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #703 on: September 30, 2019, 09:32:56 AM »
Quoting someone saying "I've seen it decimate programs" is not the same as providing an actual example of a program that has been decimated.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #704 on: September 30, 2019, 09:43:51 AM »
The ability for players to transfer without restriction could be difficult for mid-major programs.  That's a consequence, but one that isn't easy to quantify.  (I seriously doubt that it would be the ruination of college basketball, but whatever...)  But that consequence is worth the freedom of movement IMO.

And of course mid-major coaches are against it.  Why wouldn't they be?  Right now its hard for their good talent to leave, and its easy for them to let their poor talent leave.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #705 on: September 30, 2019, 09:47:46 AM »
The ability for players to transfer without restriction could be difficult for mid-major programs.  That's a consequence, but one that isn't easy to quantify.  (I seriously doubt that it would be the ruination of college basketball, but whatever...)  But that consequence is worth the freedom of movement IMO.

And of course mid-major coaches are against it.  Why wouldn't they be?  Right now its hard for their good talent to leave, and its easy for them to let their poor talent leave.

No one has been put upon more than poor college football and basketball coaches.  It’s not like mid-major coaches ever leave for better jobs
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MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #706 on: September 30, 2019, 09:48:05 AM »
Apparently you didn’t read the article...or you didn’t read it well.

Here is another one

https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/mid-major-fallout-grad-transfers-can-hurt-teams-they-leave-012319

I’ve seen it decimate programs, and I think it makes it very, very difficult for coaches that are trying to build programs,” said Kent State head coach Rob Senderoff, who was surprised when 7-foot center Adonis De La Rosa transferred to Illinois as a graduate student after last season. The Golden Flashes (14-4) are still in contention in the Mid-American Conference.

But remember, only good comes of this situation....it’s a resounding success someone once said minutes ago.

I read your articles and others. Sure, the occasions you cite hurt those teams those seasons. And, as you know, the situations included much more than just grad transfers leaving; Albany, for example, also lost two regular transfers and two players to graduation.

These true student-athletes worked hard in school and on the court to get their degrees and to be high-major basketball players. Because they were among the relative few who were able to get their degrees while they still had eligibility, they were able to take advantage of the one "loophole" that favors the athlete instead of the institution and the coach.

If them being able to realize their dreams by playing one year elsewhere "decimated the program," well, the coach doesn't have much of a program.

You know what is much more likely to truly decimate a program? A coach under contract realizing his dream and leaving for more money and glory. That coach often has spent years telling his players how loyalty and commitment matter more than everything else - in other words, he has lied to them. That coach also often leaves behind a shell of a program, as players transfer and recruits decommit; many even follow the coach to his new post.

That is what decimates a program.

But thank goodness there are sham buyout clauses. Those, of course, haven't prevented this kind of decimation, but they have let dishonest people like you claim otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 09:49:44 AM by MU82 »
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Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #707 on: September 30, 2019, 09:57:27 AM »
No one has been put upon more than poor college football and basketball coaches.  It’s not like mid-major coaches ever leave for better jobs

Exactly right. These very same coaching whining about their players taking advantage of better opportunities would jump in a heartbeat if a P6 school comes calling.
Hypocrites.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #708 on: September 30, 2019, 10:00:25 AM »
TAMU

I must say there is some interesting irony going on since you represent the school with the largest revenues in the nation, the second largest expenditures and the largest enrollment and failing to see the harm done to smaller schools.  Almost ignoring altogether....as if it isn’t happening.


Let. Them. Eat. Cake. 


I can’t help but wonder what coaches, administrators, etc at smaller schools trying to compete their arses off feel about the increase in tampering (real), poaching (real) while attempting to compete and do their jobs.

Just my opinion, but some irony there.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Galway Eagle

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #709 on: September 30, 2019, 10:02:36 AM »
TAMU

I must say there is some interesting irony going on since you represent the school with the largest revenues in the nation, the second largest expenditures and the largest enrollment and failing to see the harm done to smaller schools.  Almost ignoring altogether....as if it isn’t happening.


Let. Them. Eat. Cake. 


I can’t help but wonder what coaches, administrators, etc at smaller schools trying to compete their arses off feel about the increase in tampering (real), poaching (real) while attempting to compete and do their jobs.

Just my opinion, but some irony there.

Second largest enrollment. It's literally in the first paragraph of their Wikipedia page...
Maigh Eo for Sam

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #710 on: September 30, 2019, 10:09:58 AM »
Quoting someone saying "I've seen it decimate programs" is not the same as providing an actual example of a program that has been decimated.

Read the articles, plenty of examples.

But I’ll bet these coaches are merely pathological liars.  LOL.


The rich getting richer, no wonder you guys love it.  Helping the rich at every turn and down with the regular guy.

Another article...just more pathological lying coaches.


https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt-grad-transfers-0624-story.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 10:12:23 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #711 on: September 30, 2019, 10:12:35 AM »
Read the articles, plenty of examples.

But I’ll bet these coaches are merely pathological liars.  LOL.

Read the article. Maybe I interpret "decimate programs" differently, but having a down year is not the decimation of a program. Albany going 12-20 isn't them being decimated. Until grad transfers have impacts that require coaching changes and multi-year rebuilds, like 5-10 before reaching respectability again, this is just hyperbole.
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #712 on: September 30, 2019, 10:17:04 AM »
Winners and losers from grad transfer season.

This is odd, I just read minutes ago it is an overwhelming success, there is no downside.  Hmm, if that is the case how can there be losers in this wonderful process?  After all it is nothing but good for all involved.  So odd that losers come out of this glorious situation.

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/16/17574052/lets-declare-some-winners-and-losers-from-transfer-season-albany-missouri-state-south-alabama


Odd that those identified as losers are the mid major, smaller schools....but hey, those people don’t count.  Who gives a rip about them.  Let them eat cake
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #713 on: September 30, 2019, 10:20:31 AM »
Hmm, another mid major impacted this offseason.

But it is all good, massive success.  So good, so good.  Screw the other 11 kids on the team...screw the coaches, administrative staff, etc....it’s all good.


https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/6/10/18651122/oakland-grizzlies-greg-kampe-transfer-portal-jaevin-cumberland

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #714 on: September 30, 2019, 10:20:59 AM »
Winners and losers from grad transfer season.

This is odd, I just read minutes ago it is an overwhelming success, there is no downside. Hmm, if that is the case how can there be losers in this wonderful process?  After all it is nothing but good for all involved.  So odd that losers come out of this glorious situation.

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/16/17574052/lets-declare-some-winners-and-losers-from-transfer-season-albany-missouri-state-south-alabama


Odd that those identified as losers are the mid major, smaller schools....but hey, those people don’t count.  Who gives a rip about them.  Let them eat cake


No one said the bolded. 

You're doing it again.  You're building strawmen to create an argument that no one is making.
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #715 on: September 30, 2019, 10:21:55 AM »
Why are these mid major coaches fearful....there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/harsh-reality-hitting-mid-major-schools-star-players-show-ncaa-tourney-001926275.html


"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #716 on: September 30, 2019, 10:23:09 AM »
Hmm, another mid major impacted this offseason.

But it is all good, massive success.  So good, so good.  Screw the other 11 kids on the team...screw the coaches, administrative staff, etc....it’s all good.


https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/6/10/18651122/oakland-grizzlies-greg-kampe-transfer-portal-jaevin-cumberland

Crocodile tears.
Losing a good coach is far more damaging to a mid-major program than losing a single player for one season, yet you have no problem with that.
Screw the kids on the team. Screw the assistants who get left behind. Screw the administrative staff. It's all good.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #717 on: September 30, 2019, 10:24:13 AM »
No one has been put upon more than poor college football and basketball coaches.  It’s not like mid-major coaches ever leave for better jobs

Mid major coaches are employees.  Student athletes are not, this is settled in law.  But keep on making this ridiculous apples to oranges comparison which has no legal grounding.

A coach has a buyout, should a kid that leaves have to pay a buyout since you want to make absurd comparisons?
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #718 on: September 30, 2019, 10:26:20 AM »

No one said the bolded. 

You're doing it again.  You're building strawmen to create an argument that no one is making.

No one said it?  LOL.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #719 on: September 30, 2019, 10:28:32 AM »
Cheeks,

Im not sure you know what irony means. If anything what your said was the opposite of irony. It would be ironic if I represented a mid major.

What you don't seem to get is that I don't care if mid major coaches don't like grad transfers. For that matter,  I don't give a sh*t about mid or low majors either other than which ones Marquette is going to schedule as cupcakes. They exist to be beaten by high majors and then for a few of them to win a couple of games in March so we can all feel good about them before they ultimately get beaten by a high major.

That's how it has been for years. Banning grad transfers isnt going to change that. You laughed at me for calling CUSA mid major before?  Fine, I don't agree but that only strengthens my earlier point. That means in the 18 years prior to the Russell Wilson rule, only 6 mid majors made the final four. 3 of them are now in high major conferences and 1 of them was sanctioned for cheating.

If mid major coaches don't like it,  be better so your players don't want to leave you.
TAMU

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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #720 on: September 30, 2019, 10:29:16 AM »
No one said it?  LOL.

Not a soul, at least not in this thread
TAMU

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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #721 on: September 30, 2019, 10:31:56 AM »
The “serf” comparison related to this....apparently plantation and slavery analogy (another favorite used here and elsewhere) is in the wings....always a winning comparison.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #722 on: September 30, 2019, 10:34:39 AM »
Mid major coaches are employees.  Student athletes are not, this is settled in law.  But keep on making this ridiculous apples to oranges comparison which has no legal grounding.

A coach has a buyout, should a kid that leaves have to pay a buyout since you want to make absurd comparisons?

You keep making this point as if it were relevant.
And why should a player have to pay a buyout? Scholarships are not employment contracts (as you've noted).

Anyhow, for a guy who talks a lot about the NCAA being there to benefit student-athletes, you sure seem concerned with creation of a system that primarily protects the coaches, administrators and schools.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #723 on: September 30, 2019, 10:37:07 AM »
Mid major coaches are employees.  Student athletes are not, this is settled in law.  But keep on making this ridiculous apples to oranges comparison which has no legal grounding.

A coach has a buyout, should a kid that leaves have to pay a buyout since you want to make absurd comparisons?

Amazing.  You’re arguing programs are being decimated by grad transfers but coaches leaving for better jobs is okay because of a buyout.  Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking at this point.  Truly, I applaud you.  Masterful work
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #724 on: September 30, 2019, 10:39:15 AM »
No one said it?  LOL.

No one said there aren't losers in the process.  Of course there are losers.  Others just disagree to the magnitude of the loss and/or believe the freedom given to the player means more than the fate of mid-major programs.


What you don't seem to get is that I don't care if mid major coaches don't like grad transfers. For that matter,  I don't give a sh*t about mid or low majors either other than which ones Marquette is going to schedule as cupcakes. They exist to be beaten by high majors and then for a few of them to win a couple of games in March so we can all feel good about them before they ultimately get beaten by a high major.

That's pretty much where I stand.


The “serf” comparison related to this....apparently plantation and slavery analogy (another favorite used here and elsewhere) is in the wings....always a winning comparison.

You're becomming unhinged.
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