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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 28566 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #375 on: September 13, 2019, 08:32:17 PM »
How many teachers in California? My guess is that both sides can find anecdotal evidence of teachers who support their position. In lieu of any real statistics - #Meaningless

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #376 on: September 13, 2019, 10:37:20 PM »
How about not giving out private pages to complete and total strangers on the Internet so you can feel you "won" some stupid debate? Would those teachers like that? Would they like that you are insinuating you would do that? Of course not.

If it would shut some people up who continually make false accusations...yes.  Secondly, if the pages are open to anyone and searchable, nothing is being shared inappropriately.  That’s why if you don’t want that information out there, you place your settings to only friends can see. 

But lastly, I am not going to do it because it wouldn’t matter anyway....same clowns would argue it was only 3 or 4 or 10 and then they would attack them as somehow not teacher enough, or God knows what.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #377 on: September 14, 2019, 01:14:00 AM »
But lastly, I am not going to do it because it wouldn’t matter anyway....same clowns would argue it was only 3 or 4 or 10 and then they would attack them as somehow not teacher enough, or God knows what.

Or they would just ask the obvious question....

If I can link to many teachers pages that show the opposite, what would that mean?

I work in higher education. It is different than primary and secondary education, but I still had to study it when earning my M.Ed. Every bit of research I remember showed the out of school suspensions are detrimental to student success, no matter what measurement you wanted to use. The only benefit didn't come to the suspendee but the other students in the class.....which could be accomplished with an in school suspension.

I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of the CA law, so I'm not going to say the law as a whole is good or bad. But finding alternative discipline to out of school suspensions is a good thing.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #378 on: September 14, 2019, 09:35:51 AM »
Or they would just ask the obvious question....

I work in higher education. It is different than primary and secondary education, but I still had to study it when earning my M.Ed. Every bit of research I remember showed the out of school suspensions are detrimental to student success, no matter what measurement you wanted to use. The only benefit didn't come to the suspendee but the other students in the class.....which could be accomplished with an in school suspension.

I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of the CA law, so I'm not going to say the law as a whole is good or bad. But finding alternative discipline to out of school suspensions is a good thing.

Understood.

Here is one of counter arguments...as I have said, I grew up in a teaching household with my mom a teacher for over 40 years, including winning Colorado teacher of the year.  Of course as a parent and friends of teachers, I get their viewpoints as well.

The cons are the implication that it “rewards” the kid by not having them go to school.  Ok, fair point....get it.  Doesn’t work for all kids.  Yup, get it.

What some other teachers will tell you is it puts pressure on the kid to reform because the family is now forced to act.  Mom or dad may have to take off work, find someone to watch the kid, etc.   Now you have a lot of people inconvenienced which should motivate the kid to knockoff the behavior.  It often removes the kid from some of the elements that are contributing to the problem in the first place (other problem kids, gangs, etc).

The reality is no one solution fits all, so by the state taking away this option, they have removed a tool and said one size fits all is the solution....which we know that is often a mistake.  That’s why it is not a good idea.  For some kids, an in school suspension is better, but for others it is not.

What we are not allowed to say is why the other reasons this was passed....this is from the teachers themselves, their opinions.

Racial.  The number of kids suspended are disproportionately higher in some racial groups.
Parents.  Parents don’t have the time to take off to deal with suspended kids so they would rather put the burden on the state.
Money.  Schools are paid in California for kids being in attendance.  If they are suspended, the school loses money.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #379 on: September 14, 2019, 09:42:55 AM »
Understood.

Here is one of counter arguments...as I have said, I grew up in a teaching household with my mom a teacher for over 40 years, including winning Colorado teacher of the year.  Of course as a parent and friends of teachers, I get their viewpoints as well.

The cons are the implication that it “rewards” the kid by not having them go to school.  Ok, fair point....get it.  Doesn’t work for all kids.  Yup, get it.

What some other teachers will tell you is it puts pressure on the kid to reform because the family is now forced to act.  Mom or dad may have to take off work, find someone to watch the kid, etc.   Now you have a lot of people inconvenienced which should motivate the kid to knockoff the behavior.  It often removes the kid from some of the elements that are contributing to the problem in the first place (other problem kids, gangs, etc).

The reality is no one solution fits all, so by the state taking away this option, they have removed a tool and said one size fits all is the solution....which we know that is often a mistake.  That’s why it is not a good idea.  For some kids, an in school suspension is better, but for others it is not.

What we are not allowed to say is why the other reasons this was passed....this is from the teachers themselves, their opinions.

Racial.  The number of kids suspended are disproportionately higher in some racial groups.
Parents.  Parents don’t have the time to take off to deal with suspended kids so they would rather put the burden on the state.
Money.  Schools are paid in California for kids being in attendance.  If they are suspended, the school loses money.

This is very different than "kids are getting away with bad behavior"

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #380 on: September 14, 2019, 10:28:08 AM »
Understood.

Here is one of counter arguments...as I have said, I grew up in a teaching household with my mom a teacher for over 40 years, including winning Colorado teacher of the year.  Of course as a parent and friends of teachers, I get their viewpoints as well.

The cons are the implication that it “rewards” the kid by not having them go to school.  Ok, fair point....get it.  Doesn’t work for all kids.  Yup, get it.

What some other teachers will tell you is it puts pressure on the kid to reform because the family is now forced to act.  Mom or dad may have to take off work, find someone to watch the kid, etc.   Now you have a lot of people inconvenienced which should motivate the kid to knockoff the behavior.  It often removes the kid from some of the elements that are contributing to the problem in the first place (other problem kids, gangs, etc).

The reality is no one solution fits all, so by the state taking away this option, they have removed a tool and said one size fits all is the solution....which we know that is often a mistake.  That’s why it is not a good idea.  For some kids, an in school suspension is better, but for others it is not.

What we are not allowed to say is why the other reasons this was passed....this is from the teachers themselves, their opinions.

Racial.  The number of kids suspended are disproportionately higher in some racial groups.
Parents.  Parents don’t have the time to take off to deal with suspended kids so they would rather put the burden on the state.
Money.  Schools are paid in California for kids being in attendance.  If they are suspended, the school loses money.

This is a reasonable take. I disagree, but it's reasonable.
Let this guy out more often, and keep the "liberals want to destroy everything" guy under wraps

Lennys Tap

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #381 on: September 14, 2019, 01:31:04 PM »
This is a reasonable take. I disagree, but it's reasonable.
Let this guy out more often, and keep the "liberals want to destroy everything" guy under wraps

His "lizard brain" took offense. No way to stop that, right? But upon reflection he came up with a solid, reasoned, reply. So, progress - a lesson for us all.

Lazar's Headband

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #382 on: September 14, 2019, 02:14:00 PM »
If the parents don't have the time to take off, wouldn't an out of school suspension leave the kids unsupervised for the day and present the opportunity to make things worse instead of better?

jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #383 on: September 14, 2019, 05:02:30 PM »
So, anyway, ya, the NCAA blue bloods/high profile teams and coaches appear to be getting let off the hook. Again. (Infrequent major sanctions not withstanding)

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #384 on: September 14, 2019, 06:04:49 PM »
And speaking of white privilege ...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mom-went-prison-enrolling-her-191400017.html

While Felicity Huffman gets 14 days in jail for defrauding a university, this poor, black woman was put away for considerably longer for enrolling her 5-year-old son in a better school district than he would have been able to go to. That apparently is first-degree larceny.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

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jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #385 on: September 14, 2019, 06:28:25 PM »
And speaking of white privilege ...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mom-went-prison-enrolling-her-191400017.html

While Felicity Huffman gets 14 days in jail for defrauding a university, this poor, black woman was put away for considerably longer for enrolling her 5-year-old son in a better school district than he would have been able to go to. That apparently is first-degree larceny.

1. I tried to get this back on track.

2. This story is much more complex involving the woman selling drugs before and after the school incident. The larceny charge, while ridiculous, is one of many she faced that resulted in her jail time.

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #386 on: September 14, 2019, 06:40:41 PM »
1. I tried to get this back on track.

2. This story is much more complex involving the woman selling drugs before and after the school incident. The larceny charge, while ridiculous, is one of many she faced that resulted in her jail time.

You make good points. But the time still seems extremely excessive. For the amount of time she was given, one would have thought she was a danger to society.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

— Thomas Jefferson

jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #387 on: September 14, 2019, 07:14:00 PM »
You make good points. But the time still seems extremely excessive. For the amount of time she was given, one would have thought she was a danger to society.

As a drug dealer, is she not?

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #388 on: September 14, 2019, 09:25:44 PM »
If the parents don't have the time to take off, wouldn't an out of school suspension leave the kids unsupervised for the day and present the opportunity to make things worse instead of better?


Perhaps...or it may make the parents sacrifice so much that it finally sticks in the kids head what their punk behavior is.  Again, one size fits all, which is now what the state is forcing, isn’t a great idea.  For some in school suspension is fine, for others it isn’t.  One of the tools has been taken away and some parents can just ignor3 it let the state be the nanny....that works tremendously well.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 09:28:21 PM by Cheeks »
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #389 on: September 14, 2019, 09:27:33 PM »
And speaking of white privilege ...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mom-went-prison-enrolling-her-191400017.html

While Felicity Huffman gets 14 days in jail for defrauding a university, this poor, black woman was put away for considerably longer for enrolling her 5-year-old son in a better school district than he would have been able to go to. That apparently is first-degree larceny.

The journalist of this piece is missing some key points here that are found in other articles....so odd that a journalist would do that.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #390 on: September 14, 2019, 09:30:16 PM »
This is a reasonable take. I disagree, but it's reasonable.
Let this guy out more often, and keep the "liberals want to destroy everything" guy under wraps

Hyperbole...I don’t think they want to destroy everything, they just have some really bad ideas that I have to pay for and they normally don’t.  At least the other side’s horrible ideas don’t require me to pay for them.   ;D
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #391 on: September 14, 2019, 09:51:58 PM »
As a drug dealer, is she not?

She didn't receive the sentence in this article for being a drug dealer. She already paid her debt to society for that.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

— Thomas Jefferson

Herman Cain

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #392 on: September 14, 2019, 10:23:10 PM »


Pussification of America, aina?
Back in the day the nuns used to bang kids across the Knuckles with a ruler .

Nowadays, the lady teachers are banging the kids in other ways .

Not sure which era is better.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #393 on: September 14, 2019, 11:16:27 PM »
Back in the day the nuns used to bang kids across the Knuckles with a ruler .

Nowadays, the lady teachers are banging the kids in other ways .

Not sure which era is better.

And yet the note difference for such crimes so different.  Guy does that.....bad bad news.....woman does that...not good, but  early the same.   Equal justice?..
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 10:10:23 AM by Cheeks »
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #394 on: September 15, 2019, 02:17:30 AM »
And yet the syou note ding for such crimes so different.  Guy does that.....bad bad news.....woman does that...not good, but  early the same.   Equal justice?..

And attitudes like HCs are a big part of the reason why
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #395 on: September 15, 2019, 10:11:43 AM »
And attitudes like HCs are a big part of the reason why

How about we just make the laws and penalty outcomes equal?  Or just be honest admit the equality is BS and doesn’t exist....that would be the more honest thing to do.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #396 on: September 15, 2019, 12:07:42 PM »
How about we just make the laws and penalty outcomes equal?  Or just be honest admit the equality is BS and doesn’t exist....that would be the more honest thing to do.

Equality is overrated. Equity is where it's at
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #397 on: September 18, 2019, 07:30:56 PM »
And the beat goes on.  Slick Rick cashes out...

Waiting anxiously on the Autumn Equinox NCAA announcement. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pitino-settles-louisville-ready-chapter-152921426.html

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #398 on: September 18, 2019, 07:34:43 PM »
And the beat goes on.  Slick Rick cashes out...

Waiting anxiously on the Autumn Equinox NCAA announcement. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pitino-settles-louisville-ready-chapter-152921426.html

I'm curious how he cashed out?  He was paid what was due to him legally, but didn't receive any damages by way of the lawsuit.  How did he cash out....maybe I'm missing some details which is entirely possible.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #399 on: September 18, 2019, 07:39:29 PM »
Equality is overrated. Equity is where it's at

Yeah, it's called redistribution.  Take from someone else to prop up someone else.  Sounds nice, makes a great bumper sticker...until you run out of crates to take.

EQUALITY VS EQUITY

”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson