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Author Topic: College Football is back  (Read 129068 times)

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #825 on: December 30, 2019, 01:16:00 PM »
They choose to make it not work to protect the sanctity of the Rose Bowl
Not totally true.
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #826 on: December 30, 2019, 01:19:57 PM »
I think it's not just that. I think ABC/ESPN is OK with slightly lesser ratings for the playoffs on Dec. 28 because those ratings will still be massively higher than any other programming they would show that night.
And while the other bowl games on Jan. 1 might not draw quite the ratings as playoff games, they'll still do pretty well because that's what people watch on Jan. 1.
Big picture, they probably get more total viewers this way.

ABC has nothing to do with it. It's ESPN.

The Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl signed an 80 million deal to be locked in on NYD. ESPN really pushed to get semis off of NYE to the last Saturday in December, 2 out of 3 years, when the Rose and Sugar are not hosting playoff games.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 01:25:44 PM by Mr. Nielsen »
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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Pakuni

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #827 on: December 30, 2019, 01:30:34 PM »
ABC has nothing to do with it. It's ESPN.


Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #828 on: December 30, 2019, 01:34:35 PM »



Yes, Disney owns ABC.  Yes, Disney owns ESPN.  That said, they are individual units with their own P&Ls.  Same thing with Turner Sports was it's own operating unit even though it shared same building with CNN, etc.  Pretty common in the media industry with the proxy walls they have set up. 

« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 01:56:21 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #829 on: December 30, 2019, 01:36:01 PM »
You’re probably right.  But Jim Delany loves his Rose Bowl and spent nearly two decades protecting it despite the best interests of the sport.  “Death to the BCS” does a great job covering it

I'm glad he did protect it.  The granddaddy of them all for a reason. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #830 on: December 30, 2019, 01:40:40 PM »

Yes, Disney owns ABC.  Yes, Disney owns ESPN.  That said, they are individual units with their own P&Ls.  Same thing with Turner Sports was it's own operating unit even though it shared same building with CNN, etc.
Plus, It's been since 2010 since Rose and Sugar have been on ABC. Long time ago now.

I also believe ABC Sports ended in 2006.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 01:42:19 PM by Mr. Nielsen »
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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Pakuni

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #831 on: December 30, 2019, 01:42:51 PM »
Your CNN/Turner Sports analogy sucks. ABC Sports and ESPN share nearly everything, from content to broadcasters to graphics to branding .... even a logo (see above below), and scheduling decisions, rights fees, etc. are addressed jointly.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 01:55:28 PM by Pakuni »

Uncle Rico

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #832 on: December 30, 2019, 01:53:49 PM »
I'm glad he did protect it.  The granddaddy of them all for a reason.

Yes, how could college football go on without a game that decided 1 partial national championship after 1979 before moving out of the stone ages?
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Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #833 on: December 30, 2019, 01:59:41 PM »
Your CNN/Turner Sports analogy sucks. ABC Sports and ESPN share nearly everything, from content to broadcasters to graphics to branding .... even a logo (see above below), and scheduling decisions, rights fees, etc. are addressed jointly.



No, it actually doesn't suck and is very common in the industry.

You often say to me that I don't belong in your legal space....you don't belong in my space here....to use your words...YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT!   A classic example is the "shared logo"....that is a marketing, cross promotional branding and nothing more.  Let's not forget that more than 65% of all ABC stations are not even owned by Disney, but by affiliates.  Conversely, Disney owns ESPN completely.  As such, there are major walls between ABC and ESPN.  Sharing of graphics packages...whoop ti do.  Also very common in the industry primarily for supply chain economics when deals are done.  No different than sports data.  But you are reaching way to far to force this one.

You simply don't know what you are talking about in this area.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #834 on: December 30, 2019, 02:00:16 PM »
I'm glad he did protect it.  The granddaddy of them all for a reason. 

Because it's long dead - like both of my grandaddies?

Look, I love the Rose Bowl and most certainly will be watching in a couple of days.  But I would much rather have a new tradition.  Perhaps a semifinal at Noon, the Rose or Sugar at 3:30 (alternating years), and the second semifinal at 7:00. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #835 on: December 30, 2019, 02:07:01 PM »
Yes, how could college football go on without a game that decided 1 partial national championship after 1979 before moving out of the stone ages?

To a great many people, traditions matter.  Want to know how important it is....my city is besieged again this week by lots of really pasty overweight people wearing red.  In past years, it might they might have been wearing black / yellow, or Scarlet / grey, etc. Good folks, friendly, spend money and leave.  I've been to plenty of these games over the years, nothing like it in my opinion.  I've also been to the title game in that stadium with FSU and Auburn.  Amazing historic facility, with great tradition. 90K to 100K each year, all the pageantry that goes along with it.

I just hope UW-madison's recent lack of success here continues. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #836 on: December 30, 2019, 02:08:01 PM »
Because it's long dead - like both of my grandaddies?

Look, I love the Rose Bowl and most certainly will be watching in a couple of days.  But I would much rather have a new tradition.  Perhaps a semifinal at Noon, the Rose or Sugar at 3:30 (alternating years), and the second semifinal at 7:00.

Well, then I'd suggest not watching it because traditions usually don't die if the public supports them....through attending games or watching on tv.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #837 on: December 30, 2019, 02:13:47 PM »
No, it actually doesn't suck and is very common in the industry.

You often say to me that I don't belong in your legal space....you don't belong in my space here....to use your words...YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT!   A classic example is the "shared logo"....that is a marketing, cross promotional branding and nothing more.  Let's not forget that more than 65% of all ABC stations are not even owned by Disney, but by affiliates.  Conversely, Disney owns ESPN completely.  As such, there are major walls between ABC and ESPN.  Sharing of graphics packages...whoop ti do.  Also very common in the industry primarily for supply chain economics when deals are done.  No different than sports data.  But you are reaching way to far to force this one.

You simply don't know what you are talking about in this area.

Your bit about being in your element here would work better if you could get the facts right in your so-called area of "expertise."
To wit:
- Disney does not own ESPN completely. Disney owns approximately 80 percent of ESPN. Hearst Communications owns the other 20 percent, as it has since the early 1990s. This arrangement is the only reason for what phony walls exist between ABC and ESPN ... and those have been getting thinner and thinner.
- Who owns the actual affiliates is totally irrelevant to what programming the network produces and airs. It has nothing to do with this conversation.

On everything that matters, ABC Sports and ESPN are the same entity ... same league rights, same production staffs, same broadcasters, same decision makers. Heck, ESPN and ABC Sports had the same president.
Read this interview with that president, George Bodenheimer, and note how he consistently speaks of ABC Sports and ESPN as a joint unit, and never as separate entities.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/espn-and-abc-sports-president-george-bodenheimer

« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 02:18:56 PM by Pakuni »

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #838 on: December 30, 2019, 02:40:47 PM »


Look, I love the Rose Bowl and most certainly will be watching in a couple of days.  But I would much rather have a new tradition.  Perhaps a semifinal at Noon, the Rose or Sugar at 3:30 (alternating years), and the second semifinal at 7:00.
I miss the magic of NYD. Rose Bowl and Playoffs on that day would be outstanding!

« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 02:42:49 PM by Mr. Nielsen »
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #839 on: December 30, 2019, 02:45:08 PM »
Your bit about being in your element here would work better if you could get the facts right in your so-called area of "expertise."
To wit:
- Disney does not own ESPN completely. Disney owns approximately 80 percent of ESPN. Hearst Communications owns the other 20 percent, as it has since the early 1990s. This arrangement is the only reason for what phony walls exist between ABC and ESPN ... and those have been getting thinner and thinner.
- Who owns the actual affiliates is totally irrelevant to what programming the network produces and airs. It has nothing to do with this conversation.

On everything that matters, ABC Sports and ESPN are the same entity ... same league rights, same production staffs, same broadcasters, same decision makers. Heck, ESPN and ABC Sports had the same president.
Read this interview with that president, George Bodenheimer, and note how he consistently speaks of ABC Sports and ESPN as a joint unit, and never as separate entities.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/espn-and-abc-sports-president-george-bodenheimer

ABC is SUPPLEMENTAL to ESPN.  There is a reason for this, and most of it is contractual in nature.   Who owns the affiliates absolutely matters because of pre-emption allowances.  A non-owned ABC station can choose not to put on ABC programming in certain situations, including sports....ESPN would never do that because they cannot.  So yes, the control of it matters.

ABC Sports, currently, is a DIVISION OF ABC NETWORK.  NOT ESPN.  They are separate units.  PERIOD.  It is why on George's card (i'll happily scan it and publish here if you wish) he was the President of BOTH....as in BOTH are called out.  If they were one unit, he would simply be the President of ESPN Sports, but they have chosen for the time being to keep both entities separate, and cross-brand promote even if they share in some areas.  At some point I actually expect them to do away with the ABC Sports brand, but as of today in 2019 that is not the case.  And though they share in SOME production and SOME other areas, they do not do so entirely. Jimmy Pitaro will ultimately make that call with George.  As Broadcasters' power changes, that will become an easier decision for them to make.

Hearst...my apologies.  They are a silent partner in the strictest sense and had been talking to Hearst to sell off a bunch of their assets, including co-owned.  Assets like A&E Networks some AMC holdings, etc. As part of the Disney Fox sell-off, including RSN divestiture it was my understanding ESPN was part of that, but maybe Hearst still owns a chunk. I can tell you when you deal with ESPN that Hearst isn't even on the radar.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #840 on: December 30, 2019, 02:59:07 PM »
I miss the magic of NYD. Rose Bowl and Playoffs on that day would be outstanding!

That’s it. It’s fine keeping the Rose on NYD or Jan. 2 those select years but the day would be amazing with the playoffs there every year
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Pakuni

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #841 on: December 30, 2019, 03:00:30 PM »
ABC is SUPPLEMENTAL to ESPN.  There is a reason for this, and most of it is contractual in nature.   Who owns the affiliates absolutely matters because of pre-emption allowances.  A non-owned ABC station can choose not to put on ABC programming in certain situations, including sports....ESPN would never do that because they cannot.  So yes, the control of it matters.

ABC Sports, currently, is a DIVISION OF ABC NETWORK.  NOT ESPN.  They are separate units.  PERIOD.  It is why on George's card (i'll happily scan it and publish here if you wish) he was the President of BOTH....as in BOTH are called out.  If they were one unit, he would simply be the President of ESPN Sports, but they have chosen for the time being to keep both entities separate, and cross-brand promote even if they share in some areas.  At some point I actually expect them to do away with the ABC Sports brand, but as of today in 2019 that is not the case.  And though they share in SOME production and SOME other areas, they do not do so entirely. Jimmy Pitaro will ultimately make that call with George.  As Broadcasters' power changes, that will become an easier decision for them to make.

Hearst...my apologies.  They are a silent partner in the strictest sense and had been talking to Hearst to sell off a bunch of their assets, including co-owned.  Assets like A&E Networks some AMC holdings, etc. As part of the Disney Fox sell-off, including RSN divestiture it was my understanding ESPN was part of that, but maybe Hearst still owns a chunk. I can tell you when you deal with ESPN that Hearst isn't even on the radar.

Cheeks ... I'll keep this simple for you and say no more.
The reason why ABC Sports and ESPN exist separately in name only is a result of the big fact you got wrong here ... Hearst's partial ownership of ESPN. While Disney owns all of ABC, it owns just 80 percent of ESPN, and therefore needs some "on the books" separation to address the issues therein.
But this is nothing more than a bookkeeping matter. It in no way affects anything that matters in terms of the operations of ESPN/ABC as a sole entity, and certainly nothing that matters concerning ESPN's coverage of college football, which is what this discussion is about.


MU82

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #842 on: December 30, 2019, 03:17:03 PM »
That’s it. It’s fine keeping the Rose on NYD or Jan. 2 those select years but the day would be amazing with the playoffs there every year

I'd also enjoy the playoffs being on NYD. Personally, the only day I hate the playoffs being on is NYE. I hope that experiment has ended for good.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #843 on: December 30, 2019, 03:54:28 PM »
Cheeks ... I'll keep this simple for you and say no more.
The reason why ABC Sports and ESPN exist separately in name only is a result of the big fact you got wrong here ... Hearst's partial ownership of ESPN. While Disney owns all of ABC, it owns just 80 percent of ESPN, and therefore needs some "on the books" separation to address the issues therein.
But this is nothing more than a bookkeeping matter. It in no way affects anything that matters in terms of the operations of ESPN/ABC as a sole entity, and certainly nothing that matters concerning ESPN's coverage of college football, which is what this discussion is about.



I sent this over to a VP at ESPN that I work with on a near daily basis....his best part of his response

"What lesson does he think he is teaching...something at Trump U?". 


There is a lot of cross over, but it is not in NAME ONLY as you keep saying.   There is a reason why leadership oversees both entities, with to resources to bear for both brands.  Sales and Marketing are unified under one umbrella, but there are dedicated people that ONLY touch ESPN on ABC and those that only deal with ESPN by itself, as an example.

Where we agree Pakuni, this is absolutely a marketing brand consolidation and has been for a decade and a half.  ESPN essentially surpassed ABC Sports long ago, and ABC Sports took a back seat as a result.  The gorilla brand became king...that's why the rebranding.  Companies integrate cross-branding all the time now, and Disney was one of the first and best at it.  The launch of Disney Plus and their integration on ESPN, ABC, all the Disney networks was a classic example.  Comcast Universal with their merger did an amazing job at it and continue to.   But as long as they have dedicated people working on each in some areas, your claim that it is in name only is wrong.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #844 on: December 30, 2019, 04:13:30 PM »
There's always an anonymous expert on standby ready to agree.

Uncle Rico

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #845 on: December 30, 2019, 05:05:19 PM »
I sent this over to a VP at ESPN that I work with on a near daily basis....his best part of his response

"What lesson does he think he is teaching...something at Trump U?". 


There is a lot of cross over, but it is not in NAME ONLY as you keep saying.   There is a reason why leadership oversees both entities, with to resources to bear for both brands.  Sales and Marketing are unified under one umbrella, but there are dedicated people that ONLY touch ESPN on ABC and those that only deal with ESPN by itself, as an example.

Where we agree Pakuni, this is absolutely a marketing brand consolidation and has been for a decade and a half.  ESPN essentially surpassed ABC Sports long ago, and ABC Sports took a back seat as a result.  The gorilla brand became king...that's why the rebranding.  Companies integrate cross-branding all the time now, and Disney was one of the first and best at it.  The launch of Disney Plus and their integration on ESPN, ABC, all the Disney networks was a classic example.  Comcast Universal with their merger did an amazing job at it and continue to.   But as long as they have dedicated people working on each in some areas, your claim that it is in name only is wrong.

Lol
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #846 on: December 30, 2019, 05:50:24 PM »
There's always an anonymous expert on standby ready to agree.

Great. Now we’re going to get a new persona creating an account, great job.

wadesworld

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #847 on: December 30, 2019, 06:01:32 PM »
I sent this over to a VP at ESPN that I work with on a near daily basis....his best part of his response

"What lesson does he think he is teaching...something at Trump U?". 


There is a lot of cross over, but it is not in NAME ONLY as you keep saying.   There is a reason why leadership oversees both entities, with to resources to bear for both brands.  Sales and Marketing are unified under one umbrella, but there are dedicated people that ONLY touch ESPN on ABC and those that only deal with ESPN by itself, as an example.

Where we agree Pakuni, this is absolutely a marketing brand consolidation and has been for a decade and a half.  ESPN essentially surpassed ABC Sports long ago, and ABC Sports took a back seat as a result.  The gorilla brand became king...that's why the rebranding.  Companies integrate cross-branding all the time now, and Disney was one of the first and best at it.  The launch of Disney Plus and their integration on ESPN, ABC, all the Disney networks was a classic example.  Comcast Universal with their merger did an amazing job at it and continue to.   But as long as they have dedicated people working on each in some areas, your claim that it is in name only is wrong.

You sent a post from MUScoop over to a person you work with from ESPN?  LOL!  You must be a blast to work with!
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lawdog77

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #848 on: December 30, 2019, 06:20:25 PM »
You sent a post from MUScoop over to a person you work with from ESPN?  LOL!  You must be a blast to work with!
Not the first time he sent a post from scoop to former employers.

Cheeks

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Re: College Football is back
« Reply #849 on: December 30, 2019, 06:34:28 PM »
You sent a post from MUScoop over to a person you work with from ESPN?  LOL!  You must be a blast to work with!

He and I are tight, friends for 25 years.... an expert.... if I don't know something about a certain topic that someone else does then I go to that expert.  Pretty simple.  Did I send the link...no.  I cut and pasted to him in an email along with the clever animated gif.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 06:37:31 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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