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Author Topic: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"  (Read 7432 times)

Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #200 on: September 16, 2019, 09:16:47 AM »
Never said that. Very dishonest of you per usual.

The NCAA should not be allowed to regulate their jurisdiction...that is effectively what you have said by pushing back on them doing just that.

How is that dishonest?  What should they be allowed to regulate, only what the agents think is appropriate?
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Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #201 on: September 16, 2019, 09:17:50 AM »
If the agent wants to have a shot at signing clients coming out of college they will agree to it.

If they don't, they can shove it. The NCAA has the right to make rules and enforce them. If people don't want to take part, they don't have to. No one owes them crap.


Exactly!!!!!
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #202 on: September 16, 2019, 09:21:28 AM »

Well they don't seem that concerned about that since none of the NBPA's certified agents will apparently be participating.

And I hate to break it to you, but contact between agents and potential clients already exists.  They're getting the clients regardless.

That may be the case, but they will be getting them later than they want.  I also got news for you, at least one if not more agents will agree with the NCAA and when that happens, those agents will get first dibs.  Some of the less powerful agents will see this as an opportunity.

I’m sorry you thought my response was dishonest, but it sure feels like you are taking the agents side on this.  There is only one issue to contend with otherwise the criteria is exactly the same.  As such, you are effectively saying let the agents do what they want and win that one issue. 
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #203 on: September 16, 2019, 09:21:30 AM »
The NCAA should not be allowed to regulate their jurisdiction...that is effectively what you have said by pushing back on them doing just that.


1. I never said the NCAA should not be allowed to do anything.  The NCAA can do whatever it wants, even if it's misguided and doesn't serve the interest of student athletes.

2. I never said agents should be able to do whatever they want.  Which was your original lie.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #204 on: September 16, 2019, 09:35:33 AM »
That may be the case, but they will be getting them later than they want.  I also got news for you, at least one if not more agents will agree with the NCAA and when that happens, those agents will get first dibs.  Some of the less powerful agents will see this as an opportunity.

Those agents would be breaking ranks with the NBPA, which controls the certification process.


I’m sorry you thought my response was dishonest, but it sure feels like you are taking the agents side on this.  There is only one issue to contend with otherwise the criteria is exactly the same.  As such, you are effectively saying let the agents do what they want and win that one issue. 

No.   The problem is that you view this as one of "sides," instead of working together to solve the problem at hand.  If the NCAA was truly interested in engaging agents in helping to advise basketball players who are "testing the waters," they wouldn't have unilaterally created rules, including the moronic bachelor's degree rule that they quickly backed down on, and subjected agents who certify to their ridiculous investigory powers.  They could have sat down with the NBPA and its agents to develop a system that helps give the students athletes advice, while still protecting their NCAA eligibility.

The NCAA seems to think that it has some sort of power to wield, when it really doesn't.  Or, and this is what I believe is the case, they are more interested in enforcing their anachronistic rules on amateurism rather than helping student athletes.

If you read the agents' letter, they actually state they are willing to work with the NCAA on this, and make three points:

1.  They agree with the NCAA's bi-annnual rules seminar
2.  They will not participate in the NCAA's "certification process" since one already exists.  (This makes perfect sense to me.)
3.  They want to pay for their client's housing and transportation during the "testing the waters" process.  (I know...AMATEURISM!!!)

This really shouldn't be a confrontational process, but the NCAA has made it one.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

MU82

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #205 on: September 16, 2019, 10:20:51 AM »
Those agents would be breaking ranks with the NBPA, which controls the certification process.


No.   The problem is that you view this as one of "sides," instead of working together to solve the problem at hand.  If the NCAA was truly interested in engaging agents in helping to advise basketball players who are "testing the waters," they wouldn't have unilaterally created rules, including the moronic bachelor's degree rule that they quickly backed down on, and subjected agents who certify to their ridiculous investigory powers.  They could have sat down with the NBPA and its agents to develop a system that helps give the students athletes advice, while still protecting their NCAA eligibility.

The NCAA seems to think that it has some sort of power to wield, when it really doesn't.  Or, and this is what I believe is the case, they are more interested in enforcing their anachronistic rules on amateurism rather than helping student athletes.

If you read the agents' letter, they actually state they are willing to work with the NCAA on this, and make three points:

1.  They agree with the NCAA's bi-annnual rules seminar
2.  They will not participate in the NCAA's "certification process" since one already exists.  (This makes perfect sense to me.)
3.  They want to pay for their client's housing and transportation during the "testing the waters" process.  (I know...AMATEURISM!!!)

This really shouldn't be a confrontational process, but the NCAA has made it one.

NCAA poohbahs are seeing their power and influence slowly eroding, and they are getting desperate. They haven't been about doing what's right for the athlete/students for many decades now.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

— Thomas Jefferson

lawdog77

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #206 on: September 16, 2019, 11:15:37 AM »
No one said they don't have a right to create the rule and enforce the rule.  But I don't understand, and you didn't answer my question, why not including the NCAA's investigative authority is a "no go?"


Well they don't seem that concerned about that since none of the NBPA's certified agents will apparently be participating.

And I hate to break it to you, but contact between agents and potential clients already exists.  They're getting the clients regardless.
posturing by the agents now. What may happen is the attorney agents who do not follow this rule and contact clients, may face disciplinary action by their state boards

Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #207 on: September 16, 2019, 11:24:09 AM »

1. I never said the NCAA should not be allowed to do anything.  The NCAA can do whatever it wants, even if it's misguided and doesn't serve the interest of student athletes.

2. I never said agents should be able to do whatever they want.  Which was your original lie.

It wasn’t a lie....if you understand the issue you would know it isn’t.

There is only one issue of contention between NCAA and the agents.  Just one.  And it is binary.  By saying the ncaa is wrong it needs to work with the agents on this is saying the ncaa shouldn’t be allowed to force this requirement.  What is there to negotiate or come to the table on?  This issue is a yes or no, there is nothing to negotiate.

I’d be curious to know what you think the middle ground would be here.  That the ncaa can only halfway investigate?  It’s a serious question....i’m sorry you feel the need to throw the lie allegation, Sultan...it appears to me you simply don’t understand the issue of contention on this one.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #208 on: September 16, 2019, 11:25:25 AM »
NCAA poohbahs are seeing their power and influence slowly eroding, and they are getting desperate. They haven't been about doing what's right for the athlete/students for many decades now.

Another terribly broad and irresponsible comment by the “journalist”.  Yup, all those athletes that benefited from the system for years and years were actually not benefited.  Good Lord.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Pakuni

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #209 on: September 16, 2019, 11:26:02 AM »
posturing by the agents now. What may happen is the attorney agents who do not follow this rule and contact clients, may face disciplinary action by their state boards

I very much doubt state licensing boards are going to bother trying to discipline anyone for violating an arbitrary NCAA rule.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 11:32:58 AM by Pakuni »

Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #210 on: September 16, 2019, 11:26:38 AM »
posturing by the agents now. What may happen is the attorney agents who do not follow this rule and contact clients, may face disciplinary action by their state boards

Possible...of course you don’t have to be an attorney to be an agent.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #211 on: September 16, 2019, 11:29:02 AM »
It wasn’t a lie....if you understand the issue you would know it isn’t.

There is only one issue of contention between NCAA and the agents.  Just one.  And it is binary.  By saying the ncaa is wrong it needs to work with the agents on this is saying the ncaa shouldn’t be allowed to force this requirement.  What is there to negotiate or come to the table on?  This issue is a yes or no, there is nothing to negotiate.

I’d be curious to know what you think the middle ground would be here.  That the ncaa can only halfway investigate?  It’s a serious question....i’m sorry you feel the need to throw the lie allegation, Sultan...it appears to me you simply don’t understand the issue of contention on this one.


LOL.  Right.  I don't understand.   ::) ::) 

Anyway, I have explained my thoughts on this in other posts.  The NCAA is perfectly free and able to require whatever it wants.  It's just not going to help anyone when the agents say "no thanks."
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Pakuni

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #212 on: September 16, 2019, 11:32:01 AM »
Another terribly broad and irresponsible comment by the “journalist”.  Yup, all those athletes that benefited from the system for years and years were actually not benefited.  Good Lord.

The fact "the system" has benefited athletes doesn't mean that benefiting students is the NCAA's primary concern. It's simply a byproduct of the NCAA's true purpose: enriching its membership. It's like arguing that Walmart's true purpose is to provide income to workers.

Note: there's nothing wrong with the NCAA existing to enrich its membership. It's just hypocritical for its leaders to deny the organization's true purpose and it's gullible for anyone to believe their denials.

lawdog77

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #213 on: September 16, 2019, 11:34:13 AM »
I very doubt state licensing boards are going to bother trying to discipline anyone for violating an arbitrary NCAA rule.
I dont doubt it. Doesnt matter if you thinks its arbitrary, or the attorney agent does, a rule is a rule,  if it is reported, they will follow up

Pakuni

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #214 on: September 16, 2019, 11:42:09 AM »
I dont doubt it. Doesnt matter if you thinks its arbitrary, or the attorney agent does, a rule is a rule,  if it is reported, they will follow up

Attorney licensing boards aren't in the business of enforcing other organizations' rules just because the rules exist.
Do you also believe such boards impose sanctions when a lawyer violates his condominium association's landscaping rules? Or maybe doesn't wipe down the machines at the health club?
Headline: "Lawyer disbarred for not following 90 degree rule at country club."

Uncle Rico

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #215 on: September 16, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »
Attorney licensing boards aren't in the business of enforcing other organizations' rules just because the rules exist.
Do you also believe such boards impose sanctions when a lawyer violates his condominium association's landscaping rules? Or maybe doesn't wipe down the machines at the health club?
Headline: "Lawyer disbarred for not following 90 degree rule at country club."

TBH, they should be
Alleged Slurper

lawdog77

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #216 on: September 16, 2019, 01:38:26 PM »
Attorney licensing boards aren't in the business of enforcing other organizations' rules just because the rules exist.
Do you also believe such boards impose sanctions when a lawyer violates his condominium association's landscaping rules? Or maybe doesn't wipe down the machines at the health club?
Headline: "Lawyer disbarred for not following 90 degree rule at country club."
you are being obtuse. IF an attorney is not allowed to contact a specified class of people and does so anyway, that calls into their fitness to practice law. Especially if that person now becomes ineligible
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 01:40:04 PM by lawdog77 »

MU82

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #217 on: September 16, 2019, 01:39:53 PM »
Another terribly broad and irresponsible comment by the “journalist”.  Yup, all those athletes that benefited from the system for years and years were actually not benefited.  Good Lord.

Ignoring the lying troll.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

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Pakuni

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #218 on: September 16, 2019, 05:32:33 PM »
you are being obtuse. IF an attorney is not allowed to contact a specified class of people and does so anyway, that calls into their fitness to practice law. Especially if that person now becomes ineligible

I'm not being obtuse. you're being ridiculous about the powers of the NCAA. "Not allowed to contact?"
Do you honestly believe the NCAA has the authority - authority that will be backed up by state supreme courts - to bar lawyers from speaking to potential adult clients? From where does this authority come, exactly? The NCAA has ZERO jurisdiction over who a lawyer contacts. 

lawdog77

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #219 on: September 16, 2019, 05:58:43 PM »
Yes. Its attorney malpractice if that attorney causes the athlete to lose his eligibility. 

Pakuni

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #220 on: September 16, 2019, 06:16:16 PM »
Yes. Its attorney malpractice if that attorney causes the athlete to lose his eligibility.

No it's not.
This is dumb. I'm done.

Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #221 on: September 16, 2019, 06:57:20 PM »

LOL.  Right.  I don't understand.   ::) ::) 

Anyway, I have explained my thoughts on this in other posts.  The NCAA is perfectly free and able to require whatever it wants.  It's just not going to help anyone when the agents say "no thanks."

With all due respect, you are a smart guy, a good poster, I enjoy reading most of your stuff....I think you just missed what the issue is on this one.  My opinion based on what the difference is as I understand it between the two sides. 
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #222 on: September 16, 2019, 07:00:26 PM »
The fact "the system" has benefited athletes doesn't mean that benefiting students is the NCAA's primary concern. It's simply a byproduct of the NCAA's true purpose: enriching its membership. It's like arguing that Walmart's true purpose is to provide income to workers.

Note: there's nothing wrong with the NCAA existing to enrich its membership. It's just hypocritical for its leaders to deny the organization's true purpose and it's gullible for anyone to believe their denials.

And in my opinion, having actually worked in two major college athletic departments, the ncaa benefits most student athletes.

We will disagree on the purpose and I don’t think it is gullible.  What I think is gullible and flat out wrong is to continue to paint the entire ncaa based on two revenue sports....or worse, based on a subset of two revenue sports.  It’s as if everything else the ncaa does is forgotten or ignored for convenience because it doesn’t fit the meme.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

lawdog77

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #223 on: September 16, 2019, 07:01:13 PM »
No it's not.
This is dumb. I'm done.
you might want to read the rules of professional conduct. If it weren't the case, attorney would be contacting players out in the open now. Attorneys know it is against the NCAA rules currently, which would show the attorney's character and fitness (or lack thereof). Go ahead, contact Markus now as an attorney, and see how fast you are called to the carpet.

Cheeks

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Re: New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"
« Reply #224 on: September 16, 2019, 07:06:18 PM »
Ignoring the lying troll.

Lol.  Seek help....apparently a lobotomy is in order to remove my residency in your head.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson